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Silliness beyond belief.............

Started by Mike Cl, February 16, 2022, 06:05:21 PM

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GSOgymrat

Quote from: SGOS on February 19, 2022, 07:24:07 AM
But we are all human.  If we insist on closure to everything we don't know, then we have to make shit up.  And that's a lot of shit.

I'm appreciating more as I get older that people are compelled to seek meaning and many people simply cannot tolerate uncertainty and ambiguity. I recently read The Sweet Spot: The Pleasures of Suffering and the Search for Meaning by psychologist Paul Bloom and he discusses people who have survived horrible experiences and reframed them to assign a positive meaning. I think religion, especially Christianity with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, taps into this psychological mechanism. Life is hard but your suffering is not meaningless.


Daniel Gilbert talks about the “psychological immune system,” a part of our psyche that recovers from negative experiences by giving them meaning. He tells the story of Katie Beers, who, when she was nine years old, was abducted, raped, and tortured for two weeks in the dungeon of a family acquaintance. Her description of the event twenty years later? “The best thing that happened to me.” Or take Moreese Bickham’s description of spending thirty-seven years in the Louisiana State Penitentiary for a crime he didn’t commit: “I don’t have one moment’s regret. It was a glorious experience.” Or recall, from the last chapter, George Loewenstein’s reports of terrible climbs, of the man who lost several fingers and parts of his feet and said that “a new and splendid life has opened out before me.” Or another who said, “I traded my hands for my family, and it is a bargain I readily accept.”

Once you look for this, you see it everywhere. My friend and colleague Laurie Santos has an excellent podcast on happiness, and in one episode she interviews a young man named J. R. Martinez who served in Iraq and was trapped in a flaming jeep that was blown up by an IED. He was hospitalized for a long period and maimed for life. As he tells his story, with its awful details (such as when he sees his scarred face in the mirror for the first time), you can see it coming.

Santos: Would you change anything? Would you do it over differently?

Martinez: Nah, I wouldn’t change anything. I one hundred percent mean that.

Santos: But you wouldn’t change the explosion, the scars, the surgery? You would keep all of that?

Martinez: Yeah . . . I’m blessed.


Mike Cl

Aging, suffering, meaning.  A small dog caused me to re-examine all that.  Brief intro--I came to the conclusion (realization?) a decade or so ago that life does not supply any intrinsic meaning.  The only meaning life has is what we say it does, on a personal level.  With that said--my little dog (5 yrs old) died in my arms in less than 30 sec.  Why?  Most likely a sudden blood clot in her brain.  There was no blood, no sound, no horrid injury (visible anyway)--she was just my still warm and limp bodied dog.  She was deeply loved and now sorely missed; there must be a reason and a meaning!  I keep coming to that thought even though I know it is not true--some part of me needs to give meaning to that death and for some reason that feeling is stronger than it has ever been about any death I have experienced in my life.  I have suffered through the deaths of my grandparents, parents, sibling, grandchild, in-laws deaths and friends dying.  Never needed to attach any meaning to that--it simply is just the way life is.  But this death has made me want to give a meaning to this death. Why?  Does my age have anything to do with it?  Could be.  Am I feeling my own end?  This is a bit puzzling for me at the moment.  I have not had any deaths in my circle for quite some time--was the suddenness of this death of a beloved creature the reason I am experiencing the feelings and questioning I am experiencing now?  This is weird and somewhat depressing.  Expectations was that she, being the youngest of us 5 (my wife and 3 dogs) would out live at least the other two dogs?   I did expect to slide into the last few years of my life without any unexpected hassle, with the important questions settled, I think.  That could be it.  Expectations are powerful and can be quite upsetting when they don't turn out as we think they should.  Someone, something must be at the bottom of it.  Right????!!!!   I guess my thoughts need to return to the knowledge that there is nothing--no meaning or reason other than what is in front of me--life and that is what happens.  There are not 'reasons' and no 'meaning' other than what I give it.  This is food for thought--at least for me.  And a deeper understanding of why people want to give meaning to the meaningless--an aid to killing the pain.  I understand that on a visceral level now and not just an intellectual one.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

drunkenshoe

Quote from: Blackleaf on February 19, 2022, 02:32:29 AM
Christians have a variety of different beliefs. Some believe in an age of accountability, where children under a certain age will go to Heaven no matter what (in which case, aborting children would be the best thing you could do for them). Some think that if you've never heard the Gospel, you won't be judged for not believing (in which case, the most effective way to get someone to go to Heaven would be to hide the Gospel, else they hear it and reject it).

Yep. The same things go for Muslims. There are some kind of radical differences. And long story short, as you may guess, things even change beyond the so called rules and laws when it is not playing to their team. Esp. when it is about the 'clergy'. This is what I mean. Imagine, somebody sued that priest about this "we" and "I" stuff, you can be sure they're gonna conjure up something based on 'actually' something old or whatever the case the priest won't pay for some 'malpractice'. Do you think he will? Because normally he should. In the end, it is a good example for how things go.

"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Cassia

QuoteSomeone, something must be at the bottom of it.  Right????!!!!   I guess my thoughts need to return to the knowledge that there is nothing--no meaning or reason other than what is in front of me--life and that is what happens.  There are not 'reasons' and no 'meaning' other than what I give it.

I wrestle with the frailty of life and the sometimes seemingly random nature of the-end-of-it, every day. I always hear people say, "everything happens for a reason" and I know they are not talking about physical cause, effect and determinism. They are talking about some intelligence that knows what is best beyond our comprehension and is guiding events. I don't think that is the case at all. Events are actually random and uncontrollable beyond our wildest belief. However, in the middle of all that there is a tiny subset of outcomes we can shape. Sometimes. It is the experience of experiencing that matters. Our molecules will disperse, and all knowledge of existence will disappear. In a strange way, I find that very comforting.

the_antithesis

"Everything happens for a reason."

"What is the reason?"

"Because you're stupid."

Mike Cl

Quote from: Cassia on February 19, 2022, 11:54:48 AM
I wrestle with the frailty of life and the sometimes seemingly random nature of the-end-of-it, every day. I always hear people say, "everything happens for a reason" and I know they are not talking about physical cause, effect and determinism. They are talking about some intelligence that knows what is best beyond our comprehension and is guiding events. I don't think that is the case at all. Events are actually random and uncontrollable beyond our wildest belief. However, in the middle of all that there is a tiny subset of outcomes we can shape. Sometimes. It is the experience of experiencing that matters. Our molecules will disperse, and all knowledge of existence will disappear. In a strange way, I find that very comforting.
Well said--that is exactly what I think.  Now sure why my little dog shook me up so much, but I have come to re-examine all of that.  And come to the same conclusion.  Joseph Campbell said this:

Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.²
People say that what we’re all seeking is a meaning for life. I don’t think that’s what we’re really seeking. I think that what we’re seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances with our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive.³

I return to what I consider my basic premise--the meaning (purpose) of life is life.  Period.  I supply the meaning and purpose if it is to have any. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

aitm

#21
I think the greatest fear among the most, is to be forgotten. They think on a grand scale….but as we know, humans do not exist on the grand scale. We are  mere minutes to the universe, all of us will not so much be forgotten, but not have ever existed at all. This is why one should experience what short time you have….and those who have far less than we…..to be burdened with diseases and deformities that shorten that one minute, to mere seconds should be angry that a “god” would deprive you of so much that is so little to “him”.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Daniel L.

Quote from: Mike Cl on February 19, 2022, 10:46:48 AMBut this death has made me want to give a meaning to this death. Why?
Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

-The reason why you find no meaning in life, is because you reject His commandments. You are liken unto a soldier whithout a sargent, a deserter who has refused to follow orders:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

-There is no other duty given to man, but to Fear Him and keep His commandments. Only in Him will you find your duty, and meaning. Unlike the Army, God will have mercy on anyone who repents, and turns to Him:

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?



aitm

We don't allow preaching in here. You can beg forgiveness with a burnt offering of one fatted calf or be banished to the bowels of Vermountten.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

SGOS

Banning would be his sacrifice.  Cast out by depraved atheists likens to the crucifixion of Jesus, and  his cross to bear, which he welcomes.  He might be rejected now, but later he will sit on God's right hand and watch the unholy burn.  And then, who's going to be the one laughing his ass off?

Daniel L.

Quote from: aitm on March 29, 2022, 10:48:47 AMWe don't allow preaching in here. You can beg forgiveness with a burnt offering of one fatted calf or be banished to the bowels of Vermountten.
There is no forgiveness in wickedness, repent or perish.

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Luke 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.
Quote from: SGOS on March 29, 2022, 11:13:00 AMBanning would be his sacrifice.  Cast out by depraved atheists likens to the crucifixion of Jesus, and  his cross to bear, which he welcomes.  He might be rejected now, but later he will sit on God's right hand and watch the unholy burn.  And then, who's going to be the one laughing his ass off?
I won't be "laughing", because believe it or not, we have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, our pleasure is when the wicked turns from his wickedness. Besides that you are correct, them despising us and rejecting us, is only going to increase our reward in Heaven:

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Dark Lightning

"Repent or perish"? Oooh, scary.

Daniel L.

Quote from: Dark Lightning on March 29, 2022, 02:55:27 PM"Repent or perish"? Oooh, scary.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Hydra009


the_antithesis

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 29, 2022, 10:42:25 PMFear the man of one book.

J D Salinger?

Or do short story collections count?