There is no God PERIOD

[Godis]

Unbeliever,
I believe that if a person says they were "saved" and then backslides, then they were never saved in the first place.   So yes, if a person is truly saved, then they are saved forever because they will have the fortitude to hold to their beliefs regardless of any future false ideological onslaught or ridicule they may have to endure.   See my post about the difference between being "born-again" and being "saved" from the wrath of God to come.   Jesus only said you must be born-again to be saved or to see the kingdom of God, but he didn't claim one always resulted in the other.  I'm curious if Nicodemus ever took the hint seriously;  I hope so.

[Baruch]

Unbeliever,
I believe that if a person says they were "saved" and then backslides, then they were never saved in the first place.   So yes, if a person is truly saved, then they are saved forever because they will have the fortitude to hold to their beliefs regardless of any future false ideological onslaught or ridicule they may have to endure.   See my post about the difference between being "born-again" and being "saved" from the wrath of God to come.   Jesus only said you must be born-again to be saved or to see the kingdom of God, but he didn't claim one always resulted in the other.  I'm curious if Nicodemus ever took the hint seriously;  I hope so.

You are a puritan, aka Donatist aka a Priscillian ... which is a heretic, so you are going to burn in Hell.  Sorry, no cheat codes or extra lives for you.  Game Over!

[Baruch]

I'm a long time member of this forum and not an evangelist at all. I think you might have misquoted.

Perhaps.  My counterpost was directed to Godis.

[Baruch]

Nematode,
You thought, therefore you are!

Nematode is his status ... Mr Obvious is his nick name ... what could be more obvious?  Sorry, you seem his opposite, you are oblivious ;-(

[Baruch]

Wow. And I thought I was a defeatist.  :D

It is a Jedi mind trick .. un-evangelism!

[Baruch]

Definitely a lot of God-haters abounding on this site.   Mike, at least you presented something close to logical that I can respond to.  What I find interesting is that you offered as proof that you don't believe God exists because: "The proof is the total and complete lack of evidence of the existence of any god...".  That's similar to asserting that something is definitely true (God does exist) because you don't have any definite evidence that it's false (God does not exist).  Don't you see any flaw in reasoning like that?  I still hold to the rule that the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved by using physical evidence alone.  However, if you can ponder the existence of God, you are still accountable because I assure you that God will give you enough evidence (that only YOU will know is evidence!) where you can't stand before God and claim He hasn't given you enough evidence to believe in Him.  God has all the angles covered and that's evident in the story of Lazarus and the rich man where the rich man pleaded to have someone return from the grave to warn his family of the impending perils awaiting them.  The response was they have Moses and the prophets to believe.   You may think answers about the existence of God will eventually come from advances in technology or the scientific method, but they won't. You will always have Moses and the prophets to believe.  However, you're even more accountable to believe than either Lazarus or the rich man, because God did send somebody back from the grave to warn you, and you are doing everything in your power to not believe it!

I know G-d personally, and She is a bitch!  Go become a Catholic priest, then at least you might be a worthy opponent.  And yes, I would call the Virgin Mary ... a bitch, for cheating on her fiancé.

[Mike Cl]

Definitely a lot of God-haters abounding on this site.   Mike, at least you presented something close to logical that I can respond to.  What I find interesting is that you offered as proof that you don't believe God exists because: "The proof is the total and complete lack of evidence of the existence of any god...".  That's similar to asserting that something is definitely true (God does exist) because you don't have any definite evidence that it's false (God does not exist).  Don't you see any flaw in reasoning like that?  I still hold to the rule that the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved by using physical evidence alone.  However, if you can ponder the existence of God, you are still accountable because I assure you that God will give you enough evidence (that only YOU will know is evidence!) where you can't stand before God and claim He hasn't given you enough evidence to believe in Him.  God has all the angles covered and that's evident in the story of Lazarus and the rich man where the rich man pleaded to have someone return from the grave to warn his family of the impending perils awaiting them.  The response was they have Moses and the prophets to believe.   You may think answers about the existence of God will eventually come from advances in technology or the scientific method, but they won't. You will always have Moses and the prophets to believe.  However, you're even more accountable to believe than either Lazarus or the rich man, because God did send somebody back from the grave to warn you, and you are doing everything in your power to not believe it!

Don't you realize you are posting on an atheist site????

You are laboring under a false assumption.  You assume a god exists--and not just any god, buy your god and your god alone.  I suggest to you that I don't make any assumptions at all.  If there is a 'creator' of this universe then he/she/it will make its presence known.  When that happens I'll make the appropriate changes to my thinking.  Until some sort of proof makes itself known then I will continue to think god (all of them) are fictions; as are the Tooth Fairy and King Arthur.  I don't hate god; I don't hate a fiction, as there is nothing to hate.  What I hate are religious people who tell me what I can and cannot think or do; who pass laws to regulate my life as they believe their fictional god wants me to.  I hate the religious hierarchy that keeps people in chains and tries to make rules that regulate my life according to their theist fictions. 

Also, understand, the bible is not authoritative in any way, shape or form.  It is also fictional--all written and crafted by men.  Using the bible to prove your fiction is redundant--both your god and the bible is a fiction.

[Godis]

Widdershins,
Do you get points on this site for name-calling?  In any case, I firmly believe Heaven will be Hell for an unbeliever, and you're not even close to being in Hell yet!  Just imagine if you are reduced to spirit only and that your spirit only senses the absence or presence of God.  If would be the ultimate gnashing of teeth or the pain of a burning fire to know you will never ever know God or be in His presence!   Naw, this isn't the Hell you're messing with.

[Godis]

Mike,
I was only pointing out your continued false reasoning, not mine.  Too bad you can't see the difference. 

[Godis]

God-haters are generally known for their inability to enter into a fully logical debate or discussion, and it's mostly because their own self-righteousness tends to get in the way of any progress. 

[Godis]

BTW, I learned in my college debate class that if I can get an opponent cussing or calling me names, then I automatically win.   It's an absolute massacre after that point!

[sdelsolray]

Blackleaf,
If you claim to have been a Christian (believing that Jesus is God!) for 25 years of your life, then you are definitely accountable for your backsliding!  Not to mention, you are also accountable for all those you drag down with you!

The preaching begins.

[sdelsolray]

Thinking is easy and cheap.
I prefer: I do, therefore I am ;)

“To be is to do”â€"Aristotle
“To do is to be”â€"Kant
“Do be do be do”â€"Sinatra

I prefer Sinatra.

[sdelsolray]

Mr. "I Am the Source of Logic" speaks:

...God has it designed to make us toil (doing "things")
...

Mere assertion fallacy.

...we can know whether we are accomplishing whatever God intends us to accomplish.
...

Mere assertion with a side order of projection.

...
Otherwise, our choice to love God or to hate God would be meaningless because we would have no actions to be judged on
...

False dichotomy fallacy with a non-sequitur finish.

...
we will be eventually judged.
...

Mere assertion.

[sdelsolray]

Widdershins,
Do you get points on this site for name-calling?  In any case, I firmly believe Heaven will be Hell for an unbeliever, and you're not even close to being in Hell yet!  Just imagine if you are reduced to spirit only and that your spirit only senses the absence or presence of God.  If would be the ultimate gnashing of teeth or the pain of a burning fire to know you will never ever know God or be in His presence!   Naw, this isn't the Hell you're messing with.

This one is begging for Purgatory.