thought I share some good news since the forum has been quiet the last few days:
To be sure, the United States remains home to more Christians than any other country in the world, and a large majority of Americans â€" roughly seven-in-ten â€" continue to identify with some branch of the Christian faith.1 But the major new survey of more than 35,000 Americans by the Pew Research Center finds that the percentage of adults (ages 18 and older) who describe themselves as Christians has dropped by nearly eight percentage points in just seven years, from 78.4% in an equally massive Pew Research survey in 2007 to 70.6% in 2014. Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated â€" describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular†â€" has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%. And the share of Americans who identify with non-Christian faiths also has inched up, rising 1.2 percentage points, from 4.7% in 2007 to 5.9% in 2014. Growth has been especially great among Muslims and Hindus, albeit from a very low base.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/
In just 7 years! Hopefully this trend continues...
I suspect increased access and use of the internet is causally linked to these changes.
So, you just came here to "tell us the good news"? Don't you people usually knock on my door around dinner time, but only if young kids are screaming, indicating I currently do not have time for bullshit?
The other side of the coin:
"Around the world, the Muslim population is expected to increase by about 35 per cent, rising to 2.2 billion by 2030 and increasing at about twice the rate of the non-Muslim population. If current trends continue, Muslims will make up 26.4 per cent of the world's total projected population of 8.3 billion in 2030, up from 23.4 per cent of the estimated 2010 world population of 6.9 billion."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/for-muslims-growing-numbers-and-growing-fears/article1321938/
This could be the next challenge to the survival of our species.
The President of Turkey just issued an all-hands demand that there be a lot more Turks thru child birth. Don't know if it is because of the usual decline in birthrates among advanced societies or if he is doing the traditional ME thing of seeking more fighters to fight whoever he is fighting.
I really don't think we will get past 8 billion, given the four horsemen.
Like sdelsolray stated, the internet has a great part in helping the demise of the primitive Bronze and Iron Age cult of Christianity.
The Kool Aid these fools have to drink at the expense of rational and logical thinking is getting more bitter by the day, praise!
(https://media.bizarrepedia.com/images/jonestown-suicide-massacre.jpg)
My son just finished up his first year of college, but in his last few years of high school he said that most of the people he knew in school were atheist. Young people in this country are turning away from religion in numbers which would be alarming if it weren't a good thing. And they're leading the charge against corporate ownership of the political process and bigotry. As parents it is our duty to leave the world in a better condition for our children than when we found it, but know all I hope is that our children can muster enough political and social power to save us from our own misdeeds.
Quote from: 21CIconoclast on June 03, 2016, 04:33:25 PM
Like sdelsolray stated, the internet has a great part in helping the demise of the primitive Bronze and Iron Age cult of Christianity.
The Kool Aid these fools have to drink at the expense of rational and logical thinking is getting more bitter by the day, praise!
(https://media.bizarrepedia.com/images/jonestown-suicide-massacre.jpg)
Every time I see a picture of the Jonestown aftermath, I think, "Those people were certainly very colorful dressers."
Quote from: widdershins on June 03, 2016, 05:15:38 PM
My son just finished up his first year of college, but in his last few years of high school he said that most of the people he knew in school were atheist. Young people in this country are turning away from religion in numbers which would be alarming if it weren't a good thing. And they're leading the charge against corporate ownership of the political process and bigotry. As parents it is our duty to leave the world in a better condition for our children than when we found it, but know all I hope is that our children can muster enough political and social power to save us from our own misdeeds.
I hope your are correct about our young adults and religion. My granddaughter is in her 4th year of college and is an atheist. I will have to ask about what she sees in general in that area with her peers.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 04, 2016, 09:16:10 AM
I hope your are correct about our young adults and religion. My granddaughter is in her 4th year of college and is an atheist. I will have to ask about what she sees in general in that area with her peers.
My children and grand children are all atheists. Nothing to do with me.
When Christianity is no longer a majority, people will start to view the whole thing like we do Zeus and Thor. Perhaps with a similar forgiveness and understanding we give the ancient Greeks and Vikings for their ignorance. But it does seem rather late in the civilization of mankind for people to still be hanging on to superstition.
There are still plenty of Judeo-Christians at my school. But I go to school in the south.
Quote from: Absurd Atheist on June 04, 2016, 10:01:16 AM
There are still plenty of Judeo-Christians at my school. But I go to school in the south.
I bet there are! I went to school in Alabama for 5 years and really, really got sick of praying in school.
Quote from: SGOS on June 04, 2016, 09:35:53 AM
When Christianity is no longer a majority, people will start to view the whole thing like we do Zeus and Thor. Perhaps with a similar forgiveness and understanding we give the ancient Greeks and Vikings for their ignorance. But it does seem rather late in the civilization of mankind for people to still be hanging on to superstition.
Don't worry, science fiction is the modern mythology ... robots and AI will save you ;-)
What I am really curious about here is that what do these people embrace after leaving their faith. Because I dıon't think they just become seculat healthy people.
I started to think a very big amount of people roughly from similar backgrounds and socio-economical class start to religionise (just made it up) anything available to them or invent new stuff.
You know, like angel couching, reiki, crystals, homeopathy, astrology, quantum something to energy sending, asking universe to give them things lol...all that bullshit including all the personal development bullshit out there as simple couching is what these people take as asome sort of faith. It's almost like they turn everything that makes good themselves as in some hobby or self comfort they turn it into a 'religion' and then if they aresuccessful something to make money of.
This is the same in he country I live. I guess the reason is what has been going on in the last deade and a half and also a lot coming before that. People want to keep their distance to Abrahamic religions and tend towards other 'fantasies' and beliefs, most times mixing it with their mother religions.
It has very bad consequences like anti-vaccination and all, but also may be in a long time masses will realise there is actuall no difference between any of them. Because that's the only way to collapse organised political religions. I dunno. But I would define this as one of the centrifugal forces I keep talking about. bullshit or not, it is a movement 'opposite' of the main trio.
While I'm glad to see Christianity on the decline, I am alarmed to see Islam on the rise. If I have to be dominated by a religion, I prefer the hypocrisy of Christianity, to the stifling stranglehold of Islam.
People rationalize, but they aren't rational.
People objectify, but they aren't empirical.
People are psychological individually, and cultural socially.
Bohemians (cultural minorities) are at odds with the dominant culture, by definition. But in being from and opposite, they are no more free than a fish is dry.
So we have people going to Star Trek conventions instead of Santiago de Compostela. Jedi is a recognized religion in GB. At least some of science fiction is positive and optimistic. But it has a dark side, where dystopia is the fixed idea rather than utopia. People like Elon Musk are megalomaniacs, and such people always have a following. Into an individual delusion swirls the group think, like Jonestown or abolishing currency (as seen on Star Trek). My sympathies are with the Farengi not the Federation, with Brexit not Schengen.
I read an on-line cartoon, where the heroine is a villain (anti-hero of Euripides), where self-interest, self-defense, personal autonomy are put in a positive light, where the Nietzschean supermen don't withdraw to Colorado, where the technology is more advanced than the trains of Dagny Taggart ... instead all of humanity, special or ordinary, expand across the galaxy, providing the space necessary to allow experimentation and reduce conflict. A planet for every ideology, including robotically enforced communism, to wild west capitalism. Lebensraum without aliens to dispossess or enslave. But I don't mistake it for reality.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on June 05, 2016, 07:12:20 AM
While I'm glad to see Christianity on the decline, I am alarmed to see Islam on the rise. If I have to be dominated by a religion, I prefer the hypocrisy of Christianity, to the stifling stranglehold of Islam.
That's only because in the ocuntry you live, the federal state is the almigthy 'god'. And the rest is playing along two version of a one game.
If one day -hopefully never- if Christianity gets in charge, you could closely observe that there is actually no difference whatsoever at all.
Chauvinism and jingoism ... can change clothes all they want, but they remain what they are.
Quote from: Baruch on June 05, 2016, 07:59:58 AM
Chauvinism and jingoism ... can change clothes all they want, but they remain what they are.
Well world has a long way to go till even the atheists and seculars get that nationalism is a cult. Doesn't realy matter how you name it. Semantics dipped in politics. EW
Anybody ever see people acting like Christ?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 05, 2016, 11:24:32 AM
Anybody ever see people acting like Christ?
Only homeless people could, and I don't know any of them to be particularly nice ... but then I don't know many of them. Basically they aren't all right in the head ... which is part of why they are homeless.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 05, 2016, 11:24:32 AM
Anybody ever see people acting like Christ?
Christ no!
How would than look??? A guy giving away all of his worldly goods--or somebody going into a church and beating up people who put money in the basket--or a guy pitting his mother against his father or brother--or...................?????????????????????????????
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 05, 2016, 02:08:33 PM
Christ no!
How would than look??? A guy giving away all of his worldly goods--or somebody going into a church and beating up people who put money in the basket--or a guy pitting his mother against his father or brother--or...................?????????????????????????????
This dude better be wearing a white long dress walking around investing in people.
Why 'investing' in people?
Because people in the faith subconsciously don't go around just helping people, they expect something in return.
It's just something they do but don't admit.
But then again, if I see a guy wearing a white dress and pretty long hair, Id probably think he's homosexual.
Quote from: Pipu.Diiding on June 05, 2016, 02:15:29 PM
This dude better be wearing a white long dress walking around investing in people.
Why 'investing' in people?
Because people in the faith subconsciously don't go around just helping people, they expect something in return.
It's just something they do but don't admit.
But then again, if I see a guy wearing a white dress and pretty long hair, Id probably think he's homosexual.
But what about the 12 guys who follow him around, party with him and sleep in the park with him?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 05, 2016, 02:48:18 PM
But what about the 12 guys who follow him around, party with him and sleep in the park with him?
That's easy, think Snow White and the 7 Dwarves. ;)
Except the dwarves don't have a large house for Snow White to stay in.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 05, 2016, 02:48:18 PM
But what about the 12 guys who follow him around, party with him and sleep in the park with him?
Wouldn't that be his posse? Or his fellow escapees from Napa State????
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 05, 2016, 02:48:18 PM
But what about the 12 guys who follow him around, party with him and sleep in the park with him?
I think he should rephrase to
"Sleep with him" in the park.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 05, 2016, 02:48:18 PM
But what about the 12 guys who follow him around, party with him and sleep in the park with him?
Would that be Macarther's Park??
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 05, 2016, 04:36:52 PM
Would that be Macarther's Park??
Depends, does Macarther's Park condone LGBT PDA? To the extend, they don't mind them making love in the park at night?
Note: Jesus and the apostles could be moaning like wolves while making love though. Honestly, if you were the owner of the park, would you allow it?
Quote from: Pipu.Diiding on June 05, 2016, 10:58:46 PM
Depends, does Macarther's Park condone LGBT PDA? To the extend, they don't mind them making love in the park at night?
Note: Jesus and the apostles could be moaning like wolves while making love though. Honestly, if you were the owner of the park, would you allow it?
Macarther Park was a hit song of the late 60's early 70's. Google it; I liked it--still do; all 22 min. of it.
Quote from: Mike Cl on June 05, 2016, 11:42:00 PM
Macarther Park was a hit song of the late 60's early 70's. Google it; I liked it--still do; all 22 min. of it.
Hahahahha 20 mins
Probably Jesus will be jumping on his apostles for 22mins.
Now I'm reminded of "Bolero" from the movie "10".
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 07, 2016, 07:30:34 AM
Now I'm reminded of "Bolero" from the movie "10".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dILIdREylC0
My wife asked me if I thought Derrick was a "10". I was wise enough to say "Honey, you're the only 10 I know of."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 10, 2016, 05:56:44 AM
My wife asked me if I thought Derrick was a "10". I was wise enough to say "Honey, you're the only 10 I know of."
They know your lying, but it doesn't matter so long as you gave the correct response.
Quote from: widdershins on June 10, 2016, 01:12:28 PM
They know your lying, but it doesn't matter so long as you gave the correct response.
You get "Husband Points", which are redeemable for ... Well, you know.
I once told her that Rachel Weisz (in "The Mummy") reminded me of her, only Rachel was not so pretty as she was. It was true after a fashion.
The decline of Christianity and rise of Atheism isn't just an American phenomenon. It is happening in Europe too, and is actually more advanced here (I live in the UK, so "here" is Europe). At the same time, the remaining Christians are tending more and more towards fundamentalism. In the UK, evangelical Christianity hardly existed 30 years ago; it is more prominent now, although nothing like the American situation.
In my view, these two things are linked. There are essentially 3 positions on the relationship between Science and Religion:
1. Fundamentalism: Religion and Science contradict each other. Religion is true, and thus large sectors of Science (most of Biology, Geology, Astronomy etc) are necessarily false.
2. Atheism: Religion and Science contradict each other, and Religion is false.
3. Moderate/ "Compatibilist" Theism: Religion and Science don't contradict each other. Apparent contradictions can be resolved, usually by re-interpreting religious texts.
Traditionally, the third position is the one that has been dominant throughout the West. However, this position is imho unstable and ultimately unviable. And the reason for this is that Science and Religion really are in contradiction. As Science has advanced, that contradiction has only become more obvious.
Perhaps, then, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end for moderate Christianity.
Quote from: Duncle on June 12, 2016, 10:05:23 AM
The decline of Christianity and rise of Atheism isn't just an American phenomenon. It is happening in Europe too, and is actually more advanced here (I live in the UK, so "here" is Europe). At the same time, the remaining Christians are tending more and more towards fundamentalism. In the UK, evangelical Christianity hardly existed 30 years ago; it is more prominent now, although nothing like the American situation.
In my view, these two things are linked. There are essentially 3 positions on the relationship between Science and Religion:
1. Fundamentalism: Religion and Science contradict each other. Religion is true, and thus large sectors of Science (most of Biology, Geology, Astronomy etc) are necessarily false.
2. Atheism: Religion and Science contradict each other, and Religion is false.
3. Moderate/ "Compatibilist" Theism: Religion and Science don't contradict each other. Apparent contradictions can be resolved, usually by re-interpreting religious texts.
Traditionally, the third position is the one that has been dominant throughout the West. However, this position is imho unstable and ultimately unviable. And the reason for this is that Science and Religion really are in contradiction. As Science has advanced, that contradiction has only become more obvious.
Perhaps, then, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end for moderate Christianity.
A lot of it has to do with how the media exploits the issue for newsworthiness. The nastier the conflict the more news it generates. By polarizing issues- a Rupert Murdoch specialty- you get more controversy and generate more ratings. People like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Glen Back didn't exist in the 60s and 70s.
And the fundies are screaming louder because less people are listening. The fact that their target audience is among less educated members of society creates instances of moms with 12 kids marching through Target waving a bible in the air. All of this is largely a replay of the early 60's and the racial segregation issues of that time. The same people are making the same threats and waving the same book in the air.
Oh and welcome to the forum.
Welcome to the forum, Duncle.
Scandinavian countries do very well with more than half of the population declared atheists or non religious. Europe in general is more advanced in terms of religiosity. Yet, half the people in the US believe the earth is 6,000 years old and we rode dinosaurs for fun. But the landscape is changing. The latest polls indicate that over 20% of the population in the US is non religious; that's over 60 million people and increasing fast. The steady hammer blows of science, especially of the last 200 years have made any argument for scripture obsolete at best, irrational at worst.
The question is, can we evolve fast enough to shed ancient superstition before we exterminate each other? Personally I am skeptical; our stone age brains need explanations for things we don't have answers yet, even if they are false. Any explanation is better than none, and as a bonus the pious can look forward to an infinite life of milk and honey after they pass on. It's hard to beat false consolation and wish thinking. The only way to speed up the change to logic and reason is education, especially for children. Any attempt to indoctrinate children should be classified as child abuse for starters. No religion and prayer in public schools, end the tax free status and prosecute child abuse with rigor.
Maybe then your last sentence holds true.
Quote from: Duncle on June 12, 2016, 10:05:23 AM
The decline of Christianity and rise of Atheism isn't just an American phenomenon. It is happening in Europe too, and is actually more advanced here (I live in the UK, so "here" is Europe). At the same time, the remaining Christians are tending more and more towards fundamentalism. In the UK, evangelical Christianity hardly existed 30 years ago; it is more prominent now, although nothing like the American situation.
In my view, these two things are linked. There are essentially 3 positions on the relationship between Science and Religion:
1. Fundamentalism: Religion and Science contradict each other. Religion is true, and thus large sectors of Science (most of Biology, Geology, Astronomy etc) are necessarily false.
2. Atheism: Religion and Science contradict each other, and Religion is false.
3. Moderate/ "Compatibilist" Theism: Religion and Science don't contradict each other. Apparent contradictions can be resolved, usually by re-interpreting religious texts.
Traditionally, the third position is the one that has been dominant throughout the West. However, this position is imho unstable and ultimately unviable. And the reason for this is that Science and Religion really are in contradiction. As Science has advanced, that contradiction has only become more obvious.
Perhaps, then, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end for moderate Christianity.
Welcome. Moderate "main line" Christianity has been on decline in the US since the 1960s. This isn't new, but they started from a very large number of believers in 1965. They young Baby Boomers who were more radical, rejected religion other than New Age way back then. But the majority of Baby Boomers proved to be conservative, and built the Evangelical movement. They pulled Right. The number of #2 people will remain restricted, because it also involves rejecting the American mythology not just the Biblical. The number of #1 people will remain restricted, unless we abolish public education.
I can just see the christians now. Oh the end of times, the end of times! It's the devil! It's his 100 years of power (or what ever). Oh no freak out christianity is shrinking! We christians are so persecuted.
I believe that more people are free to say "I don't give a crap about any god or gods". In the '40s this would have been a serious problem for most Americans. Now that's not so much. Personally, religion seldom protrudes into my life, and then it's most "have a blessed day".
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on June 14, 2016, 07:05:46 AM
I believe that more people are free to say "I don't give a crap about any god or gods". In the '40s this would have been a serious problem for most Americans. Now that's not so much. Personally, religion seldom protrudes into my life, and then it's most "have a blessed day".
I live in a relative pocket of Liberalism so it isn't really a problem with me. Being close to a military base, there are a lot of people from different back grounds living here, and many have retired here that came from other places. About all I see are occasional Mormon missionaries. I seldom have any discussions, its "let the sleeping dogs alone" thing. Elsewhere in the state that is not the case, because I've lived in those places. But I still see plenty of God, guns and Jesus on window decals and bumper stickers.
Quote from: stromboli on June 14, 2016, 11:06:45 AM
I live in a relative pocket of Liberalism so it isn't really a problem with me. Being close to a military base, there are a lot of people from different back grounds living here, and many have retired here that came from other places. About all I see are occasional Mormon missionaries. I seldom have any discussions, its "let the sleeping dogs alone" thing. Elsewhere in the state that is not the case, because I've lived in those places. But I still see plenty of God, guns and Jesus on window decals and bumper stickers.
I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, so I see that too. But fifty years ago if we had moved into this neighborhood people would have been dropping by to invite us to their church, or just to find out which church we attended.
My own bumpersticker say "Jarvis is my co-pilot."
At Texas State... most people I know are atheists or very weak Hindu, Christians or Muslims. Even the most "radical" Muslim I know is still less radical than your average Southern Baptist. Faith is just not something that is a part of the evil "liberal indoctrination institutions". Despise them you may, but these evil liberal colleges are cranking out atheists like an assembly line and bolstering the atheist numbers.
Quote from: Shiranu on June 15, 2016, 05:40:34 AM
At Texas State... most people I know are atheists or very weak Hindu, Christians or Muslims. Even the most "radical" Muslim I know is still less radical than your average Southern Baptist. Faith is just not something that is a part of the evil "liberal indoctrination institutions". Despise them you may, but these evil liberal colleges are cranking out atheists like an assembly line and bolstering the atheist numbers.
You're just too close to Austin.