One Question, One Response (aka - Stump the Apologist)

[Randy Carson]

It's always a little disturbing when you see someone come completely unglued in a public forum, isn't it?

[Baruch]

To be fair to the Catholic Church ;-) ...

The Spanish people were xenophobic and racist.  They would have oppressed and exprelled the Jews and Muslims, even if they were more Catholic than the Pope.  Also it was lucrative business turning in your neighbor for a share of the proceeds.  It was simply convenient that most of the Jews and Moors were not Catholic.  Jews that converted 150 years before the Inquisition were never expelled.  The early conversos have names ending in -ez ... like Hernandez and Cortez.  It was recent converts and those who refused to convert, who were targeted.  Going after the older conversos would have been too disruptive of society.

[Baruch]

It's always a little disturbing when you see someone come completely unglued in a public forum, isn't it?

The frustration with you is real ... are you happy about it?

[reasonist]

Don't kid yourself. Although I have no clue who Perez is, I made some effort to find out. I wish you made similar efforts to look into information I present to you.

Perez is a respected scholar and won some award a year or two ago. Great. He's had a long and distinguished career.

Unfortunately, time has passed him by, and the anti-Catholic prejudice you're espousing when you quote him is simply no longer mainstream academic thought.

50 years ago maybe. You need to read some newer books.

Aaaand again avoiding the issue presented. At least it's a consistent m.o.   didn't expect anything less. If the apologist runs out of answers - deflect to a separate issue. Neither clever nor effective. Keep it coming.

[drunkenshoe]

The only disturbing thing in the thread is watching someone -who 'threatens' people with 'eternal fire'- calling people -who questions/refutes his fantasy over and over again-  'completely unglued' and speak of how 'disturbing' is that.

See, Randy that's why you and most believers should actually be defined as 'mentally disturbed' at this point and you, despite your 'educated pose' not a tiny bit of different from the illiterate batshit crazy believer who would execute every other group, if not for the modern law. If you want to try your chance we hear that ISIL is hiring, because doesn't matter how you cannot register it or not, you are of the same frame of mind.

You are imposing yourself and the bullshit you believe to a group of people and tell them they will burn in hell 'forever', because they do not agree with you. You are 'threatening' people with 'eternal torture', not even something as simple as death.

But then, personally I'm more curious about what could someone like you -who thinks 2000 years is an ancient period of time enough to determine 'humanity's fate'- be thinking when he is typing the word 'eternal'.

[Randy Carson]

Aaaand again avoiding the issue presented. At least it's a consistent m.o.   didn't expect anything less. If the apologist runs out of answers - deflect to a separate issue. Neither clever nor effective. Keep it coming.

I did not avoid anything. I considered your assertion, evaluated the source of your material, and concluded that Perez is not a scholar that I need to worry about.

You, however, have not taken the time to research whether modern scholarship has scaled the death toll of the Inquisition(s) and the Crusades waaaaaaay back because you don't want the Catholic Church to be innocent of the deaths of millions. You LIKE being able to spew false data at unsuspecting Catholics.

But I am not one of those.

NOW your allegations have been called into question. You can either pause and do some research into the recent scholarship FROM BOTH SIDES, or you can continue to tell yourself the same lies you have tried to tell here.

The latter is easier, of course.

[Randy Carson]

The only disturbing thing in the thread is watching someone -who 'threatens' people with 'eternal fire'- calling people -who questions/refutes his fantasy over and over again-  'completely unglued' and speak of how 'disturbing' is that.

See, Randy that's why you and most believers should actually be defined as 'mentally disturbed' at this point and you, despite your 'educated pose' not a tiny bit of different from the illetrate batshit crazy believer who wold execute every other group if not for the modern law. If you want to try your chance we hear ISIL is hiring, because doesn't matter how you cannot register it or not, you are of the same frame of mind.

You are imposing yourself and the bullshit you believe to a group of people and tell them they will burn in hell 'forever', because they do not agree with. You are 'threatening' people with 'eternal torture', not even something as simple as death.

But then, personally I'm more curious about what could someone like you -who thinks 2000 years is an ancient period of time enough to determine 'humanity's fate'- be thinking when he is typing the word 'eternal'.

I was speaking to one particular individual using a parody of his own posts.

[drunkenshoe]

I was speaking of one particular individual using parody of his own posts.

Really? And you don't think the rest of us is going to burn in 'eternal fire'?

[reasonist]

I did not avoid anything. I considered your assertion, evaluated the source of your material, and concluded that Perez is not a scholar that I need to worry about.

You, however, have not taken the time to research whether modern scholarship has scaled the death toll of the Inquisition(s) and the Crusades waaaaaaay back because you don't want the Catholic Church to be innocent of the deaths of millions. You LIKE being able to spew false data at unsuspecting Catholics.

But I am not one of those.

NOW your allegations have been called into question. You can either pause and do some research into the recent scholarship FROM BOTH SIDES, or you can continue to tell yourself the same lies you have tried to tell here.

The latter is easier, of course.

Selective reading is not going to save you from embarrassment. It doesn't matter for this argument if 10 people got tortured and burned by the RCC or 10 million. The PRINCIPLE is the same: If you have facts and evidence on your side, why torture and kill people who disagree? Too much to comprehend I guess.

[widdershins]

So, when we are having fun together here in the forum...just kicking around funny stories, etc...we should try to keep in mind that the fact that the universe is infinite doesn't really affect a God who occupies no space at all.

We should be consistent even when it's all in funsies.

It is not a "fact" that the universe is infinite.  In fact, current understanding says that it stretches for 46 billion light years in all directions from us.

Not even sure what you're saying there, but of course a universe wouldn't affect any being which created it.  Obviously that universe wouldn't contain a creator being any more than an iPhone contains Chinese children.

[doorknob]

I don't know why but this comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2vy2ZTCAvs

always looking for an excuse to post these.

[21CIconoclast]

+++++++++++  ALL POINTS BULLETIN, WHERE IS RANDY? ++++++++++++

Has anyone seen Randy Carson run past their house within the last 24 hours?

I am getting worried because Randy has yet to address my posts 67, 86, 108, 116, and 117 within this thread
where he remains silent to Jesus condoning the murdering of kids that curse their parents, where he refuses to accept
Jesus’ own words that the Christian is to follow the Old Testament laws, where he won’t explain the Trinity Doctrine, where
he now shows why Jesus is burning in the sulfur lakes of Hell, and where he admits that his bible contradicts itself.

I can't imagine why he remains silent upon these explicit biblical facts, can you?


If you see Randy, tell him to report back to his own “Stump the Apologist” thread of his own making where
thus far the only thing that he is doing is running away from those damn disturbing bible verses and narratives!   

[Randy Carson]

Really? And you don't think the rest of us is going to burn in 'eternal fire'?

I hope not.

God makes that call, and while He is perfectly just, He is also merciful. I would take careful note of the former without presuming on the latter, but that's just me.

The Catholic Church does not teach that any one, specific individual is in hell at this time.

We do proclaim that there are some specific individuals who are certainly in heaven now. We call them saints.

[Randy Carson]

Selective reading is not going to save you from embarrassment. It doesn't matter for this argument if 10 people got tortured and burned by the RCC or 10 million. The PRINCIPLE is the same: If you have facts and evidence on your side, why torture and kill people who disagree? Too much to comprehend I guess.

Ah...progress!

So, we've moved from the unshakable calumny that the Catholic Church slaughtered millions to the principle that the Church should not have to kill anyone for heresy since, presumably, it has the weight of truth on its side.

Okay. Good.

Now, let me ask you a question about this...If someone is convicted of being a serial killer, will they receive the death penalty in some countries and some states here in the US?

[Randy Carson]

It is not a "fact" that the universe is infinite.  In fact, current understanding says that it stretches for 46 billion light years in all directions from us.

I agree with you...maybe my grammar was poor. The "fact" I was positing should have been written this way: [if] the universe is infinite, this wouldn't really affect a God who occupies no space at all.

Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.

Not even sure what you're saying there, but of course a universe wouldn't affect any being which created it.  Obviously that universe wouldn't contain a creator being any more than an iPhone contains Chinese children.

widdershins, that wins my "Post of the Day" award. Congratulations



Now, if I can only get these intellectual midgets around here to admit that their precious science can't observe anything outside the material universe, maybe we can get somewhere...