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[Gawdzilla Sama]

When Lord Lothian died there was a vacancy that WSC filled by sending Lord Halifax to America, removing him from the British political scene quite effectively.

As the vote, it's wasn't about Churchill, the people wanted bread and circuses after the war and the Liberals promised them they'd get all they wanted. I've inquired about this to various parties and they all agree that if Churchill could have remained in office while his party went off then the people would have approved him for future service. He did come back, IIRC, in the 50s or 60s.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I also wonder why it took the USA so long to get on board.  I know there was strong sentiment to remain neutral, but Hitler was a global threat that would have eventually been a problem unless Germany was brought to its knees.  Russia and Western Europe probably could not have stopped him on their own.  What a different world it might have been.

There was no strong isolationist sentiment by Dec. 1941. Twice that year FDR's cabinet had assured him that he could get a declaration of war through Congress if the Japanese attacked English or Dutch possessions in South East Asia. The isolationists were noisy but a sham, they never got a bill through Congress and they never stopped a bill they didn't like. The Committee to Defend America First had a total of ~800,000 registered members, out of 133,400,000 people in the US, or a bit over 1/2 of a percent.

Having studied this war since 1965 (including 14 years at Purdue) I'm confident that FDR would have gotten us into the European war before the end of the first quarter of 1942. His "short of war" policy was very short of war from the Germany viewpoint.

[SGOS]

The isolationists were noisy but a sham, they never got a bill through Congress and they never stopped a bill they didn't like. The Committee to Defend America First had a total of ~800,000 registered members, out of 133,400,000 people in the US, or a bit over 1/2 of a percent.

Thanks.  One doesn't get that impression from much of the commentary we hear about the US entering into WWII, and I've questioned the popularity of the isolationist view, granted with the advantage of hindsight, but I was always skeptical about it's popularity.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Thanks.  One doesn't get that impression from much of the commentary we hear about the US entering into WWII, and I've questioned the popularity of the isolationist view, granted with the advantage of hindsight, but I was always skeptical about it's popularity.

The "isolationism was the major view" comes from the antit-war activism of the 70s. I wrote a paper on the way that went once upon a time. My prof. didn't like it, but I got an A.

[Cavebear]

Full Metal Alchemist 4/10

Pretty bland and the story makes no sense.

I think they were getting to a point, but I never saw the ending.  I understand there was one,  Just not here.

[Baruch]

Republicans and S Democrats were anti-Semitic and pro-German.  A pretty impressive voting block.  Before 1946, 50% of Americans were anti-Semitic ... greater than in Germany itself.  Isolationism wasn't just about getting involved in another damn war, or in a really big war, but also the difficulty of siding with the side that had the greatest compatibility (Germany compatible with the US, Germany studied our eugenics program) and the worst press.

I am not sure that FDR ever really wanted to fight Germany ... Hitler made the mistake of keeping his word to the Japanese, stupid move on his part.  If you are a genocidal maniac, why bother keeping your word to Asians who would never pass for Aryan ever.  There was much more pre-war focus in the US on Japan and their invasion of China (Flying Tigers).  And we applied an oil and steel embargo against Japan, not Germany.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I am not sure that FDR ever really wanted to fight Germany ... Hitler made the mistake of keeping his word to the Japanese, stupid move on his part.  If you are a genocidal maniac, why bother keeping your word to Asians who would never pass for Aryan ever.  There was much more pre-war focus in the US on Japan and their invasion of China (Flying Tigers).  And we applied an oil and steel embargo against Japan, not Germany.

There was no "word" to be kept. The provision in the Tripartite Pact applied to signatories who were attacked, not to those who did the attacking.

The Gallup Polls show that the US public considered the Germans to be the greater threat.

We were embargoing steel and oil because the Japanese were waging an aggressive war in China. The American public wanted to know why we were helping that war by selling oil to Japan. We also had the Joint Chiefs demanding the National Reserve be built up, the British wanted every spare drop of oil, and the American motorist wanted to be able to get gas for their cars.

[Baruch]

There was no "word" to be kept. The provision in the Tripartite Pact applied to signatories who were attacked, not to those who did the attacking.

The Gallup Polls show that the US public considered the Germans to be the greater threat.

We were embargoing steel and oil because the Japanese were waging an aggressive war in China. The American public wanted to know why we were helping that war by selling oil to Japan. We also had the Joint Chiefs demanding the National Reserve be built up, the British wanted every spare drop of oil, and the American motorist wanted to be able to get gas for their cars.

Since when do Gallup polls prove anything, or are reflected in policy.  All the people I know (German-Americans) were pro-German at that time, and anti-Japanese.  Yes, Hitler was stupid ... lucky for us.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Since when do Gallup polls prove anything, or are reflected in policy.  All the people I know (German-Americans) were pro-German at that time, and anti-Japanese.  Yes, Hitler was stupid ... lucky for us.

You knew a lot of people in 1941? And are we to be shocked that the German-Americans were pro-German?

The Public Opinion Quarterly did an examination of all the major polls and found them congruent.

[Baruch]

You knew a lot of people in 1941? And are we to be shocked that the German-Americans were pro-German?

The Public Opinion Quarterly did an examination of all the major polls and found them congruent.

I know people who were alive then, I wasn't .. didn't claim I was.  And no, I am not surprised that German-Americans were pro-German.  Most conservative Americans then were pro-German, because Hitler was the chosen way (per Catholicism not just politics) to destroy communism.  After the golem of Hitler went awry, this policy was rebirthed by Winston at Independence Missouri.  Winston hated communists.  So do you think most Japanese-Americans were pro-Japanese as well?  If so, the internment was the correct reaction.  Oh, not true?  Then maybe you are simply anti-German, and anti-German-American .. stereotype wise.  All Italian Americans were Mafia too I bet.  It was thought at one time in the 1920s that all Italian-Americans were anarchists (Sacco-Vanzetti trial).  Most Americans and Germans thought all Jews were communists.  Of course none of these prejudices were true, then nor now.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You are full of shit.

[Baruch]

You are full of shit.

People here don't always have something constructive to say.  So they engage in ad hominem.  I try not to do that myself, I tend to pour disdain on humanity as a whole, rather than prejudice against individuals or groups.

So "my prejudice" is virtue and "your prejudice" is vice.  Isn't that how it always goes?

Personally, I don't have the hang ups of my parents or grandparents.  I have never thought badly of other ethnic groups as such.  But I understand the temptation.  I merely report what I was told, by people who lived then and there, and reports written subsequently, that show that the Allies weren't paragons of virtue.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Annihilation  7/10 Aliens(?) come to Earth and want to change things. Do they or don't they?

[SGOS]

Annihilation  7/10 Aliens(?) come to Earth and want to change things. Do they or don't they?

That question was the one thing I liked about the movie.  At the end, Natalie Portman speculates they had no evil intentions.  For all the death and destruction, it was just something they did, like humans polluting the environment with carbon dioxide, lead, or fluorocarbons.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Did you pay attention when the loving couple hugged?