Hi

[Baruch]

There is more to Heaven and Earth than Southern Baptists and their opponents.

[Arik]

Well, now that IS interesting.  Faith believers tend to think that their beliefs come to them from within (as faith rather than fact), though I will say they consider the SOURCE of their beliefs are certainly some sort of outside deity.  And YOU are saying that your source of belief comes from within you via your consciousness and no where else.

So you are claiming to be an atheist?  Which would be all fine and good, but I can't help thinking that you are ALSO claiming some sort of higher consciousness through the power of your own mind beyond that of ordinary mortals.  Do I have that right?

You are an atheist denying all outside powers?  Yet you also suggest that atheists are "materialists that think that the universe pop up as per magic and need no one to run it which in this case is also faith in magic" which certainly suggests you think there is a POWER of SOME sort that created the universe, and atheists don't think THAT.

Sounds like trying to have your deity cake and eat it too, betwixt and between...  And I suspect you don't exactly think THAT either (consciously), though it seems apparent in your post.

So which is it?  Was the universe created by "any sort of intelligence" or not.  Can't really have it both ways.

I do appreciate your inquisitiveness which by the way is also one way to reach some conclusion.

Unfortunately this time you failed to reach any conclusion but you should try again and again until you succeed.

Anyway let me explain why you failed.
In yoga God is real but unlike many religions is within rather than externally.
That means that you are God.
Like a seed that once it sprout (so to speak) will turn into the same tree from which it originated from also the individual consciousness will one day turn into the same entity from which it originate from and that is God.

Individual mortals also come from the same entity so no one is inferior or superior to anyone else.
The only difference however is that many people haven't yet reach the stage in which they are interested in this topic and other people such as religious people think that God is external to them so they are wasting their precious time chasing a fantasy.

To me God is everywhere and is everything but to find Him you got to look within and the consciousness is the seed that one day will show you the real YOU.
Who in reality you are.

Obviously God created the universe which is his way to spread the seeds of consciousness that one day through the process of evolution will go back to the source.

[Cavebear]

I do appreciate your inquisitiveness which by the way is also one way to reach some conclusion.

Unfortunately this time you failed to reach any conclusion but you should try again and again until you succeed.

Anyway let me explain why you failed.
In yoga God is real but unlike many religions is within rather than externally.
That means that you are God.
Like a seed that once it sprout (so to speak) will turn into the same tree from which it originated from also the individual consciousness will one day turn into the same entity from which it originate from and that is God.

Individual mortals also come from the same entity so no one is inferior or superior to anyone else.
The only difference however is that many people haven't yet reach the stage in which they are interested in this topic and other people such as religious people think that God is external to them so they are wasting their precious time chasing a fantasy.

To me God is everywhere and is everything but to find Him you got to look within and the consciousness is the seed that one day will show you the real YOU.
Who in reality you are.

Obviously God created the universe which is his way to spread the seeds of consciousness that one day through the process of evolution will go back to the source.

Well, I suppose we could argue until we are both dust, but the important thing (to me) was you established with your own words that you are not an atheist ("To me God is everywhere and is everything but to find Him you got to look within") and you even capitalized "him" (showing that you are not only just another theist but also a gender-superiorist).  Logically, a deity would be an "it", not needing a gender.

This pretty much ends all curiosity I had about you.  You are a theist (thinking you are different from others, but not so in any way other than details that do not matter to me) and even a typical "god is male" which makes no sense whatsoever except in your imagining). 

Thank you for the clarity of your superstitious beliefs.  Too many theists beat around the bush here and try to hide it.

[Arik]

Well, I suppose we could argue until we are both dust, but the important thing (to me) was you established with your own words that you are not an atheist ("To me God is everywhere and is everything but to find Him you got to look within") and you even capitalized "him" (showing that you are not only just another theist but also a gender-superiorist).  Logically, a deity would be an "it", not needing a gender.

This pretty much ends all curiosity I had about you.  You are a theist (thinking you are different from others, but not so in any way other than details that do not matter to me) and even a typical "god is male" which makes no sense whatsoever except in your imagining). 

Thank you for the clarity of your superstitious beliefs.  Too many theists beat around the bush here and try to hide it.

I though I made quite clear in some previous post that God has no gender but to refer to this entity has an IT which I would use to describe something like animals or object doesn't present much respect for something so so high that is why I have no choice but say Him.
Even if you read thousand of NDEs you will find that they refer as Him even if they explain that God does not have a gender but is pure sublime consciousness.

The same thing happen when we say men to say both men and women.
The problem is that we humans not being able to describe this power in simple words have no choice but to say Him.

[Cavebear]

I though I made quite clear in some previous post that God has no gender but to refer to this entity has an IT which I would use to describe something like animals or object doesn't present much respect for something so so high that is why I have no choice but say Him.
Even if you read thousand of NDEs you will find that they refer as Him even if they explain that God does not have a gender but is pure sublime consciousness.

The same thing happen when we say men to say both men and women.
The problem is that we humans not being able to describe this power in simple words have no choice but to say Him.

So "Him," reflects respect to an omnipresent genderless Being, but "It" doesn't?  You make me smile...

I assume by NDE, you mean Near Death Experiences (and whether you do or don't, it is a good habit to the use the full term the first time for the benefit of readers who don't know your codes).  Be that as it may, the experiences of people who are seriously drugged or near death (with at LEAST temporarily diminished mental capacities) is not going to be a benchmark for me.  I mean seriously, you are depending on people who are "non compos mentos" as your evidence of the gender of a deity?

Spare me the opportunity for humor...

"The same thing happen when we say men to say both men and women."  I try not to.  I may fail sometimes, but never casually or deliberately.

"The problem is that we humans not being able to describe this power in simple words have no choice but to say Him."  Try saying "it" and see how that fits.  Logically, it should.  Or try saying "Her" and expand your "consciousness". LOL!  I would object to that just as much, but I would give you credit for TRYING to think.

[Unbeliever]

Sounds like trying to have your deity cake and eat it too,

That's what the Eucharist is for - so they can have their deity and eat it too.

[Cavebear]

That's what the Eucharist is for - so they can have their deity and eat it too.

"This is my body you eat and blood you drink"

WTF!?!  SPEW...

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, religious cannibalism.

[Baruch]

That's what the Eucharist is for - so they can have their deity and eat it too.

I prefer to eat women thank you very much ;-)

[Unbeliever]

OK, but you should ask them first...

[Baruch]

OK, but you should ask them first...

Gentlemen who are too timid, don't get seconds, sometimes not even firsts.  I know how that was until I reached 30.  I know all about being a beta male.

[Unbeliever]

We have become, through reason and the scientific method, the eyes and mind of the planet. The observations of science are the eyes of the rational mind. Through scientific observation, using tools never before available with which to see, we can now see both the big picture and the small picture, the macrocosm and the microcosm, where previously we could only partially observe even the mesocosm.

We will likely never be able to claim omniscience, so there will always be gaps in our knowledge - but filling those gaps with "God" is to define "God" as "ignorance". Since neither "I", nor "we", can know everything, then, if God is ignorance, I'd have to admit to a belief in God. But that's a far cry from the all-powerful being of the Bible, which certainly does not exist. And, if God is ignorance, then it's the job of science to kill God, or at least to grind away at it, by eliminating as much ignorance as possible, reducing the number of gaps available for God to hide in. If seeing is believing, then seeing what isn't real can only lead to false beliefs about the world and existence. False beliefs are not conducive to behaviour commensurate with survival.

The Earth has been blind for billions years, but now, thanks so science and reason, it can see - not only itself, it can see the universal home in which it resides. Earth was blind, but now it sees!

Not only can the Earth see itself and the universe, but, since the Earth's minds were engendered by the universe, we are the universe looking at itself.

Organized religion and the right wing political machine want to keep the planet blind, choosing to see only a fantasy worldview, and doing its utmost to force that self-delusion down everyone's throats. We must not let the theocrats put out the eyes of reason, we must continue looking as deeply and as far into the nature of reality as possible. Reason is not the best tool for interpreting what we see, through scientific observation - it is the only tool.

The Earth has been exploring, since its birth, as many of the myriad ways as it could manage of being alive. Now that it has awakened and become aware of itself and its circumstances in the universe, the Earth can attempt to find the least-hostile path through space/time - the path to abundant life.

The Earth has long been considered as Mother, but it is an Egg as well.

If an eagle egg dies before it hatches, it will never become an eagle.

If Earth, as Egg, dies before it can hatch, what is it that will never be become?

[Unbeliever]

I've long considered myself to be a nihilist. I don't believe the universe, or anything in it, has any extrinsic, objective meaning. Life itself my have intrinsic meaning, though, and only that meaning that we provide can give the universe meaning.

Many have wondered what is the meaning of life, and what meaning life can have in a universe without God. This is the wrong question. It assumes that meaning can only be passed from God (or the universe) to us. The correct question is: What meaning could God, if it exists, or the universe, possibly have without life? Before God created the universe, he could have had no meaning at all, given that he was the sole existent. Without something other than himself to relate to, God could have had no meaning at all. Even after the universe was created, God would still have lacked all meaning, until mind arose.

And in a universe without God, such as we find ourselves in, the universe also derives its meaning from us, not vice versa. before the advent of life, especially sentient life, the universe could have had no meaning at all. It is we that provide meaning and purpose to the universe, by allowing the universe to observe itself, to understand itself, although imperfectly, as yet. And because we have meaning for ourselves, that meaning is transferred to the universe that engendered us.

[Baruch]

Being who you are ... whatever that may be ... isn't the problem.  That is what individuality is all about.  And why I oppose collectivism that goes beyond necessary social comity.

Are you an atheist?  I don't care.  That is the basis for what toleration I can manifest.  Same thing with being gay.  I don't care.  If you think that you are not alive, not conscious, or not human ... I still don't care.  I find it a curious form of delusion however.  Atheist or theist, neither look like delusion to me.  Gay or straight, neither look like delusion to me.  But there are manias ... that look like manias to me ;-)  There is a difference between variance and deviation.

I simply accept human diversity, and eschew any notion of utopia, that conveniently looks like a social insect hive based on me.  I support humanism, such monkey-business as we are all familiar with.  Some people don't think they are human, or find being a random collection of atoms to be ... exciting.  But such are manias.

[Mr.Obvious]

I concidered myself nihilist, until i discovered absurdism, which i think i fit more into.