Hi

[Baruch]

I don't know what semantics you subscribe to, but it is NOT semantics to communicate with others but to slur and put down.  You no longer seem to strive to make things more clear but muddier.  You use what you now call humor to humiliate.  You seem to think you have such superior insight into this world and people that you ignore what others are trying to say; you'd rather go for the clever (to you) putdown or try to make others seem stupid compared to you.  Venom--that is the word I attach to you any more.  And Baruch, I feel all that as a personal loss in my computer world.

I deny Rousseau and Voltaire.  They were evil men, same as Marx and Lenin.  You may disagree.  Or think that you don't carry forward their French Revolution memes.  It is not insight, it is cult deprogramming.  Enlightenment cult deprogramming.  Which impacts what I see as the American Revolution.  I didn't plan on this happening, it simply happened as part of my maturation.  That is my kind of nihilism perhaps, to unlearn all I have been taught.  However well meaning or deluded my teachers were.  The past isn't what we think it was, and so the present isn't either.  It is undiscovered country, even if not full of Klingons.

[Arik]

If consciousness doesn't need the brain, then why didn't humans have a higher consciousness millions of years ago?

I can see your problem brother.

It is all about not understanding how the evolution works.
That's all.

For a materialist a stone stay stone for ever, a plant born plant and die plant with no chance to evolve to animal, human and God and so on.
That is not how the system works.
Evolution is all about changes and so devolution which is the opposite of evolution.

Once you understand that everything move and change and with that the awareness in evolution or devolution take place then it will become very very clear how all the system works.
Materialists are still stuck in the stone age thinking that doesn't take into account the changes into consciousness awareness.
Darwin changes are but the external facade which doesn't take into account the internal change and materialists are stuck with this external facade.

A brain is not needed to a stone or a plant but as the awareness in consciousness evolve then a brain is needed and again is not needed anymore as a human evolve into God so everything is needed or not needed as the journey to high evolution speed up, slow down or recede.

[Arik]

I don't know what semantics you subscribe to, but it is NOT semantics to communicate with others but to slur and put down.  You no longer seem to strive to make things more clear but muddier.  You use what you now call humor to humiliate.  You seem to think you have such superior insight into this world and people that you ignore what others are trying to say; you'd rather go for the clever (to you) putdown or try to make others seem stupid compared to you.  Venom--that is the word I attach to you any more.  And Baruch, I feel all that as a personal loss in my computer world.

In ancient times a forum was a physical place or space where ideas and views on a particular issue could be exchanged.
Today the forum is not a physical place or space anymore nevertheless the purpose for it is the same.
If you think that someone post something that doesn't make sense to you you can always fight back with your intellect in order to prove you right.
If you can not do that then you fail.

It is all about a mind clash.
No need to get upset.



Roman forum.

[Mike Cl]

I deny Rousseau and Voltaire.  They were evil men, same as Marx and Lenin.  You may disagree.  Or think that you don't carry forward their French Revolution memes.  It is not insight, it is cult deprogramming.  Enlightenment cult deprogramming.  Which impacts what I see as the American Revolution.  I didn't plan on this happening, it simply happened as part of my maturation.  That is my kind of nihilism perhaps, to unlearn all I have been taught.  However well meaning or deluded by teachers were.  The past isn't what we think it was, and so the present isn't either.  It is undiscovered country, even if not full of Klingons.

I agree with all of that (well, maybe not the Rousseau, Voltaire, Marx and Lenin comments).  As a freshman history major I learned that history was not anywhere near what I thought (and was taught) it was/is.  the US Army taught me that about my country/society, as well.  My country is really 'my' country, since I know of it through only my own lens.  Oh, I do read, talk to people and watch the news and such, but what I think of this country is still filtered through my lens.  The same with you.  You no more have your finger on the pulse of the 'real' history than I do.  You have a lens and all is filtered through it--that is simply the human condition.  What I don't understand is your extreme bitterness, both personal and in general.  You strike me as a fan (fanatic) of your favorite sports team whom you feel has betrayed you; or a disciple of a particular man or movement that has disappointed you.  You are simply bitter--and none are more bitter than a betrayed sports fan.  You no longer seem to care about any sort of facts or reasons; only bitterness shows through.  It is not becoming.  It is, for me, deeply disappointing.  I guess I was sort of a 'fan' of yours, but your bitterness and simple craziness has washed that away--not that I expect you to care one iota.

[Baruch]

Bitterness comes with wisdom.  See Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner.  Also Ecclesiastes.

[Mike Cl]

Bitterness comes with wisdom.  See Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner.  Also Ecclesiastes.

I would suggest the opposite.  One can find whatever one wants to in the bible or the Ancient Mariner.  Be bitter all you want--I guess you enjoy chocking on your own bile.

[Unbeliever]

Also Ecclesiastes.

What does Ecclesiastes have to do with bitterness? I don't see bitterness when I read it, only realistic common sense - except for the later-added God parts.

[Baruch]

I would suggest the opposite.  One can find whatever one wants to in the bible or the Ancient Mariner.  Be bitter all you want--I guess you enjoy chocking on your own bile.

Choking on my bile, not your bile.  That is what independent people do.  Puritans and totalitarians generate mega-bile and make it state policy.

[Baruch]

What does Ecclesiastes have to do with bitterness? I don't see bitterness when I read it, only realistic common sense - except for the later-added God parts.

You say tomato and I say tomatoe ;-)  Realistic common sense only to 50+ year old men.  The author calls out to G-d, because he realizes no matter what he does, he is fucked.

[Unbeliever]

I've read somewhere that the praising-God parts of Ecclesiastes were interpolated, but I haven't yet found a reference. I'll keep looking, though.

[Baruch]

I've read somewhere that the praising-God parts of Ecclesiastes were interpolated, but I haven't yet found a reference. I'll keep looking, though.

All the books of the Bible were written by Jewish men high on hashish.  What interpolation could you find?

[Unbeliever]

I was so stoned when I was a teenager that I gave a whole new meaning to "high school."

[Baruch]

I was so stoned when I was a teenager that I gave a whole new meaning to "high school."

OK, here is the reference you were seeking.  In rabbinic theology, they build a "fence around the Torah".

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-fence-around-the-Torah

In other words, to give additional guarantees that a violation isn't committed (by man or G-d).  This had to do with warning signs and fences that help to prevent inadvertent violation of the sanctity of the Temple in Herodian times.  But also, it could be used to refer to interpretation that is designed to protect G-d's reputation.  Hence the invention of the Devil in the Book of Job (the only place in orthodox Jewish scripture where the devil is mentioned) so that G-d doesn't have to take responsibility for what happens to Job.  In other words, to deal with the theodicy problem (why is there evil).

I specifically disagree with this, I see no reason to protect G-d's reputation in theory or in fact, in theology or in scripture.  Apostle Paul for instance dealt with this by simply saying like at the end of the Book of Job, that G-d is mysterious, all-powerful and you should SFTU.  St Augustine dealt with people with too many questions from the congregation with "G-d devised Hell to deal with people like that".  In other words, pagans, heretics and skeptics should be excommunicated from synagogue or church, for being annoying.

[Cavebear]

So will the Q subway line.

I can't help but recall Charlie and The MTA...

[Mike Cl]

I can't help but recall Charlie and The MTA...

Isn't he riding the streets of Boston forever.............................?