Goddidit Vs Naturedidit

[aitm]

God as matter taking up all available space is trillions of times denser and hotter than a nuetron star.


To atomic matter, absolute matter would be an all consuming fire of liquid quark soup. It is formless, absolute being. It's density makes it gravitationally irresistible, drawing all to it.



As to infinity, its much easier to quantize a predictive universal model out of an infinite field rather than blow one up out of a finite singularity or yank one out of a magic nothing hat.


The God that Is, is objectively eternal. "Time", as most people think of it begins and ends when spaces (universes) are opened up and closed Within the larger infinite body.


A lab example of this mechanism would be sonic cavitation of low pressure vapor bubbles in water using sound waves. With a little modulation, light appears from the bubble collapse and reaches temps of the suns surface.



The infinite unified state of God would still exist as such above and below an infinite universe metaversal stack.....and the stack is being added to as the original vibration travels through an infinite body, leaving cavitated quantum holons in its wake.


In this navigation the universes are the "nihilo" (voided space) created within the absolutely overwhelming substance of an infinite, eternal, substancial God. It's more basic than intelligent design, it's a reproductive, geometric design.

Wow....in my life I can now say I have never seen such babblioniounessness of epic proportions. Complete gibberish of trumpish proportions. Absolute nonsense passed on as science.

Once again, believers have to extort themselves into impossible positions in order to do battle with those who ample tools are simple logic and common sense. Ah the multitude of positions a whore must go through just to make rent.

[Ananta Shesha]

Yeah, start with the conclusion are work forwards.  You're a funny, guy (or gal).

You have to start somewhere with something...or naught.

Some start with naught and make some things appears by quantum magic.
Others start with some thingness (finite singularly) and let the universe fly! Also by magic.
I start with sumthingness (infinite singularity) and carve out a space for some things to have their being and movement, by vibrational cavitation demonstrable in labs.

I call the beginning infinite formless unified state of matter, God for brevity sake. The same idea has been called Nun by the Egyptians, Apsu and Tiamat by the Sumerians, the Ain Soph Or by mystic Jews, Primordia Materia by older science and philosophy and Khrisamudra in Hinduism.

[Mike Cl]

God as matter taking up all available space is trillions of times denser and hotter than a nuetron star. To atomic matter, absolute matter would be an all consuming fire of liquid quark soup. It is formless, absolute being. It's density makes it gravitationally irresistible, drawing all to it.

As to infinity, its much easier to quantize a predictive universal model out of an infinite field rather than blow one up out of a finite singularity or yank one out of a magic nothing hat.

The God that Is, is objectively eternal. "Time", as most people think of it begins and ends when spaces (universes) are opened up and closed Within the larger infinite body.

A lab example of this mechanism would be sonic cavitation of low pressure vapor bubbles in water using sound waves. With a little modulation, light appears from the bubble collapse and reaches temps of the suns surface.

The infinite unified state of God would still exist as such above and below an infinite universe metaversal stack.....and the stack is being added to as the original vibration travels through an infinite body, leaving cavitated quantum holons in its wake.


In this navigation the universes are the "nihilo" (voided space) created within the absolutely overwhelming substance of an infinite, eternal, substancial God. It's more basic than intelligent design, it's a reproductive, geometric design.

For a fictional god (as all are) yours isn't too bad.

[Hydra009]

I call the beginning infinite formless unified state of matter, God for brevity sake. The same idea has been called Nun by the Egyptians, Apsu and Tiamat by the Sumerians, the Ain Soph Or by mystic Jews, Primordia Materia by older science and philosophy and Khrisamudra in Hinduism.

Aka Chaos, correct?  If so, we might have a small point of common ground.

[Ananta Shesha]

Wow....in my life I can now say I have never seen such babblioniounessness of epic proportions. Complete gibberish of trumpish proportions. Absolute nonsense passed on as science.

Once again, believers have to extort themselves into impossible positions in order to do battle with those who ample tools are simple logic and common sense. Ah the multitude of positions a whore must go through just to make rent.

"I am a leaf in the wind...watch me soar!" And I no longer have the luxury of doubt ;)

Common sense and logic tell me you cannot conjure something from nothing. It goes on to tell me that the expansion of a finite, monocentric singularity is fraught with all kinds of fine tuning problems. But creative Many Worlds theorists propose a quantum bulk, drunken bingo machine that burps out universes with reckless abandon, and of course lucky us! Sloppy, really damn sloppy.

On the other hand, an infinitly spacial singularity has several readily discernible and quatizable realtivities: relative to its own substance it is, all around itself equally in all directions, at the center of itself everywhere and exists as a field of matter in equilibrium with 100% probability of occurrence.

The spatial expression of these relativities works out to a spherical waveform around a probability field around a central point. In this model, the first order structure of a universe is a sphere of voided space, a central nuclear point, and field strung between them. As a resonant macro body this patterns directly for a micro standing wave form in the organization of the atom...the universes fundamental building block.

Representing this relationship in 2d would be simplified as a circle around a dot. Look up circumpunct.

[Ananta Shesha]

Aka Chaos, correct?  If so, we might have small point of common ground.

Good lord, how could I have possibly failed to mention that one?!? Hah! Thank you.

Yes. The old school meaning of chaos. Pure substance with no external or internal membranes. No empty space, all space forever filled with absolute matter. It is formless like water.

Interesting to look up QCD matter. It's a Fermi liquid who's degree of freedom is the strong nuclear force. Gravity waves would be like oscillations in liquid crystal. It is more meta stable than atoms.

[Ananta Shesha]

Like Hesiod's idea only it is not convectively moving, because there is no where to move. The substance is its own border condition forever in all directions..  But there's nothing preventing it from vibrating in place, but all energy transmission would be straight as there is no differential of mass to define or initiate curvature.

Curvature and thus space-time is created when this substantial body vibrationaly cavitates into a quantized, finite form. Because it is infinite it unfolds infinite spacial representations at the very first instant. This can be geometrically modeled as an infinite perfectly flat plane of equal sized voided sphere and each of these are a universe. At the next instant another plain of universes is created below them, and so on, and so on, and so on. Because there is nothing to stop the original vibration. It will continue through the infinite body creating plains of universes. This creates the metaversal stack.

An interesting thing about a maximum density pack of equal size spheres is that they take up about 74.05% of the total space. Look up the Kepler conjecture.This would be the base expensive constant on each of the spheres, a.k.a. dark energy.

[Hydra009]

Good lord, how could I have possibly failed to mention that one?!? Hah! Thank you.

Yes. The old school meaning of chaos. Pure substance with no external or internal membranes. No empty space, all space forever filled with absolute matter. It is formless like water.

Yes, very much like water.

And the mythologies that feature primordial chaos also tend to feature a conflict between a cultural hero and a chaos monster, some sort of serpent or dragon or hydra...

[Drew_2017]

Hello Ananta Shesha welcome to the forum.

6: The fact that nebular clouds sutarated with organic molecules are bathed in circumpolarised star light, life is enevitable.

Look up "Chiral molecules"

Does this mean you agree with the previous 5 I listed?

I looked up nebular clouds and it is a real theory but I think you drastically overstate that its a fact...

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/03/nebular-clouds-the-engines-of-rna-worlds.html

Nebular clouds are thought to be most likely environment for synthesizing and promoting the evolution of molecules needed for the origin of life. Giant gas nebulae such as Orion are storehouses of sugars that form ribose -- the backbone of RNA. With a universe full of sugar, it's possible that early RNA worlds were generated and are evolving in their own unique ways throughout the observable universe. RNA coding is what gave primitive cell structures the catalyst they needed to become life.

I looked up Chiral molecules and didn't find anything relevant except it could be used as a test to distinguish that life if found elsewhere didn't come from earth.

[Drew_2017]

When yer half cracked to begin with it's pretty easy.

What do you mean by half?

[Ananta Shesha]

Yes, very much like water.

And the mythologies that feature primordial chaos also tend to feature some sort conflict between a cultural hero and a chaos monster, a serpent or dragon or hydra...

And Re/Ra self arose on the primordial mound and protected himself with the Mehen serpents, serpents biting their tails above and below him....like a dual torus manifold.

Ourobori.

Light travels like a serpentine EM wave form, occilating between electric and magnetic expressions.

A torus is an interesting shape, it has vertical and horizontal rotation allowing for single directional flow of a contained, stabilized space....ever explore toroidal models of the universe?

Tiamat gets divided apart to make creation.

[Ananta Shesha]

Hello Ananta Shesha welcome to the forum.

Does this mean you agree with the previous 5 I listed?

I looked up nebular clouds and it is a real theory but I think you drastically overstate that its a fact...

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2012/03/nebular-clouds-the-engines-of-rna-worlds.html

Nebular clouds are thought to be most likely environment for synthesizing and promoting the evolution of molecules needed for the origin of life. Giant gas nebulae such as Orion are storehouses of sugars that form ribose -- the backbone of RNA. With a universe full of sugar, it's possible that early RNA worlds were generated and are evolving in their own unique ways throughout the observable universe. RNA coding is what gave primitive cell structures the catalyst they needed to become life.

I looked up Chiral molecules and didn't find anything relevant except it could be used as a test to distinguish that life if found elsewhere didn't come from earth.

All life on earth is composed of "left handed" molecules.

Watch DNA structure form in micro G  from an inert plasma crystal that is rapidly cooled.

Go to 4:00. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kanYuBptuZ0

[Ananta Shesha]

Yes, very much like water.

And the mythologies that feature primordial chaos also tend to feature a conflict between a cultural hero and a chaos monster, some sort of serpent or dragon or hydra...

I read mythologies symbolically...like someone had something to say but nobody would understand it, so they anthropomorphized and composed it into God and Goddess stories of creation using terrestrial operations and symbols that people would be familiar with.

One among several lenses I view them with.

[Ananta Shesha]

For a fictional god (as all are) yours isn't too bad.

Well thank you, wait till you get to the part that we are doomed to be perfected and live eternally! *hiding*

[Drew_2017]

author=Hydra009 link=topic=11330.msg1174731#msg1174731 date=1492190996]
You love to bring up the fact that some of the greatest scientists in history have been theists, seemingly implying that their worldview somehow contributed to their discoveries or that their great accomplishments somehow confers legitimacy to their beliefs.  (the fact that some great scientists were atheists is conveniently ignored)

Its almost like a law of physics how often you are incorrect. I have quoted from an avowed atheist (Sir Martin Rees) on several occasions. The fact remains several of those scientists pressed forward because they believed they were reverse engineering the universe therefore it made sense to them it should be knowable, logical and explicable mathematically but the kicker is they were right! Today I believe around 90% of scientists claim to be atheists or agnostics. But they still operate under the same assumptions even though there is no expectation it should be that way if caused by mindless naturalistic forces. The worth of this argument isn't really up to me or you or even Baruch, its really up to people who haven't made up their minds on this issue. 

So I have a question.  Let's say that tomorrow a scientist invents cold fusion.  If this scientist had a Marxist worldview, would that be relevant?  Let's say he's a libertarian.  Or an anarchist.  Or an orthodox Jew.  Or a devout Muslim.  Or a born-again Christian.  Or an atheist.  What conclusions should we draw based on that?

Buy stock in that company as soon as possible!

At this time it wouldn't mean anything because extracting laws, formulas and mathematical equations, making predictions, using logic induction and deduction works and is how science is done. I believe and I think anyone undecided would agree this fact comports with theistic belief the universe was intentionally and intelligently designed than the belief it was caused by mindless naturalistic forces.