God Is Dead

[bada94]

I say they originated from fear. Fear not only of death, but fear of the sun, when people did not know what the sun was. Fear of the moon, when people believed in a moon god. Fear of darkness, because people feared what they could not see. Fear of demons and possesion, because people did not know what disease and psychosis was. And eventually fear of the mythological gods people still believe in. It is always fear.

[Krisyork2008]

Was helping teach a class on mythology and I suggested modern religions as well, just as a basis on their origins. I got a big "fuck you" look.

[St Giordano Bruno]

There are dozens of dead gods from Zeus, Yahwell, Allah, Brahman, W?den and countless others. And not only dead but they never existed in the first place.

[Cudann]

But don't you think they all originate from something? Something that consistent at its origins has to come from some sort of event, no?

I have always assumed this from the beginning of my sorta-Christian upbringing--that religion was akin to a gigantic and longstanding game of Telephone. The story gets bastardized as it gets filtered through people who convey it.

That sounds pretty accurate.  Consider Islam -- Muhammad (PBUH) pretty definitely existed.  Was he God's chosen prophet, and did God charge him with reciting His message to the people of the world?  Slightly more dubious claims.  

Basically, what's the most likely of all the scenarios?  It's likely the guy lived in Arabia in the late 500s/early 600s, was a part of a merchant family, spread his religious movement pretty successfully, and was a popular guy all around both during and after his life.  On the other hand, it's unlikely he received a revelation from God, or can accurately be said to have had any of the divine attributes people attach to him.  

Again, though, with the "most likely scenario" way of thinking -- is it more likely that the man existed and stories built up around him, or that people conjured him out of nothing?  Personally, I suspect the former is more likely, and can be applied to plenty of religious figures out there.  It takes a lot of work to invent an entirely new person, particularly when one already exists to whom one can simply attribute divinity.  I rather like your Telephone analogy.

[Solitary]

This sounds good until you know not a damned thing was written about Christ or Jesus in His lifetime, and only after 40-60 years later. I'm sure that Reagan and Bush will be Saintly icons  some day if Reagan isn't already.  :shock:   :roll:  Solitary

[caseagainstfaith]

That sounds pretty accurate.  Consider Islam -- Muhammad (PBUH) pretty definitely existed.  Was he God's chosen prophet, and did God charge him with reciting His message to the people of the world?  Slightly more dubious claims.  

Actually... the idea that Muhammad never actually existed is an idea that some consider worth considering.  Robert Price says the entire Koran should be considered Hadith, none of it can be traced to actually be by Muhammad.

[Colanth]

This sounds good until you know not a damned thing was written about Christ or Jesus in His lifetime, and only after 40-60 years later.

Jesus was originally a spirit, living in heaven - and there were at least a dozen such "godlets" that we know of in ancient mythology.  Now either they were all based on living people (highly unlikely, to the point of not needing to consider the possibility) or there's a mechanism in the human mind for creating gods out of nothing.  Read a few dozen novels of various genres, and you'll begin to understand that some people have more fertile imaginations than others, and can create characters - human or otherwise - out of nothing.  The author of "Jesus" was a first-century forerunner of Jules Verne or Isaac Asimov.  "Gods" were the science fiction of the day.

In the year 4013, they may be discussing who Captain James T. Kirk was based on.

[caseagainstfaith]

This thread started with a piano cover of the current Black Sabbath song.  For some reason Solitary removed it.  I thought there was a thread about the Sabbath version, but I can't find it. Maybe a lost thread.  At any rate, I'll post the Sabbath video:

[youtube:11ox9du9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhhOU5FUPBE[/youtube:11ox9du9]

I just came back from the Philly show.  I live in Houston, but, I missed the Houston show, I was in Serbia.  I'm glad I went to this one anyway, the Houston show was outdoors.  Actually, I don't usually listen to as hard as Sabbath.  Sometimes.  I hadn't seen Sabbath since around 78, with Dio.  Dio is a much better singer.  I never have liked Ozzy.  In fact, I've never bothered to see Ozzy solo ever.  This is the first time I've seen him in concert.  But, hell, they are pioneers. And, a rare chance to see at least close to the original lineup, though they wouldn't pay Bill Ward equal and he declined.

He said "God bless you" several times.  Kinda ironic given they've been charged with being Satanic.  In fact, on the video screens, they showed video clips of people protesting Sabbath concerts for being Satanic, including the Westboros.

[the_antithesis]

[youtube:1zgazqwn]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXOuZgm_eY[/youtube:1zgazqwn]

[Solitary]

Watch on YouTube site for lyrics.




[youtube:31r3i1t1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwoKtzN9JIQ[/youtube:31r3i1t1]    Solitary

[frosty]

Was helping teach a class on mythology and I suggested modern religions as well, just as a basis on their origins. I got a big "fuck you" look.

Of course you did. You struck a nerve and directly made a subtle mockery of their belief systems. Humans tend to be pathetic little creatures that do not appreciate someone telling them they just may be wrong in what they believe - especially when their beliefs have absolutely no evidence to back them up.