Fake Promise of the Prosperity Gospel

[stromboli]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-ri ... ostpopular

I have been preaching for 20 years. Yesterday I did something that I have never done before in a sermon. I publicly called out false teachers and named them by name. I said:

If you listen to Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer, if you take what they teach seriously, it will not be good for you. It will be detrimental to your long-term growth as a follower of Jesus.
(You can watch my sermon here.)

I used to think that their error was so blatantly obvious that they could just be ignored. I was wrong. They are massively growing in popularity in the evangelical world and are seen as credible and helpful. Before I'm inundated with questioning emails I want to share why I distrust these two and think you should as well. So, don't shoot me -- at least not yet.

When I was a kid I could tell the difference between neighborhood kids who wanted to be my friend from the neighborhood kids who were my friends so that they could play with my toys. Joel and Joyce are the latter. They both teach a twisted form of Christianity that teaches obedience, giving and faith as a way to get things from God. They are both products of what is known as the Prosperity Gospel and The Word of Faith Movement, or the Seed Faith Movement.

Dangers of the Prosperity Gospel

John Piper does a great job of defining what the Prosperity Gospel is and why it is so sinister. Please take a few minutes to watch this before moving on the critiques of Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen:

I'm posting this because the next to last church I was involved in as a Christian was a prosperity gospel church (Foursquare, founded by radio faith healer Aimee Semple McPherson back during the Depression) And definitely was almost the last straw for my cognitive dissonance. I looked the other way for years after leaving Mormonism and dragging my family out, out of guilt I guess.

Prosperity gospel is more about making the preacher prosperous than anything, and I'm glad somebody finally called them out. One pastor calling out others is a rare occurrence in my experience, so this is notable for that alone.

[Colanth]

Prosperity gospel is more about making the preacher prosperous than anything

It's actually more about doing it in a way that's visible.  Religion itself is all about the prosperity of the hierarchy - and always has been, since the first protohominid told another protohominid that lightning would strike him dead if he didn't give that banana to the first one.

[Solitary]

Funny! And it's probably true and did happen. Solitary

[Agramon]

The fundamental Baptists I associated with soundly condemned the prosperity gospels as well, but they don't have the platform that Joel Osteen and others do.

How anyone reads the Bible and comes out with the idea that every Christian should be super wealthy is beyond me.

[aitm]

It is no secret that many feel the more opulent the church appears then it is obvious that god has bestowed that personally. This would lead to the reasoned thought that belonging to that church is certainly worthwhile as god must love them more. And of course, toss in the "populem" touch and voila! You have the perfect," everybody agrees with me and Ima gonna be rich.......someday".

[Colanth]

The fundamental Baptists I associated with soundly condemned the prosperity gospels as well, but they don't have the platform that Joel Osteen and others do.

So what actual work did those ministers do to earn the money they needed to stay alive?  Or did they just take money from their parishioners like all religious freeloaders do?

The fact that a clergyman doesn't commit grand larceny every hour doesn't mean that he's not a crook, it just means that he's not as blatant a crook as some of them are.

[Agramon]

The fundamental Baptists I associated with soundly condemned the prosperity gospels as well, but they don't have the platform that Joel Osteen and others do.

So what actual work did those ministers do to earn the money they needed to stay alive?  Or did they just take money from their parishioners like all religious freeloaders do?

The fact that a clergyman doesn't commit grand larceny every hour doesn't mean that he's not a crook, it just means that he's not as blatant a crook as some of them are.

It depends on the church really. While a good part of the church's money comes from tithing, churches do tend to invest the money into various places and use the returns to fund the church. At least at the churches I used to be a part of it was very transparent, with business meetings every quarter to account for spending.

[stromboli]

The fundamental Baptists I associated with soundly condemned the prosperity gospels as well, but they don't have the platform that Joel Osteen and others do.

So what actual work did those ministers do to earn the money they needed to stay alive?  Or did they just take money from their parishioners like all religious freeloaders do?

The fact that a clergyman doesn't commit grand larceny every hour doesn't mean that he's not a crook, it just means that he's not as blatant a crook as some of them are.

There are pastors, probably the majority, that do truly work for the good of their congregation and do make serious efforts in counseling and shepherding their flock. But the very nature of their "calling" puts them in a position of trust and power almost by default. The long history of religion being one of trust works for them, and anyone with a bent to exploit it likely will. Prosperity gospel is simply a more blatant example of how that trust can be manipulated.

[hrdlr110]

The fundamental Baptists I associated with soundly condemned the prosperity gospels as well, but they don't have the platform that Joel Osteen and others do.

So what actual work did those ministers do to earn the money they needed to stay alive?  Or did they just take money from their parishioners like all religious freeloaders do?

The fact that a clergyman doesn't commit grand larceny every hour doesn't mean that he's not a crook, it just means that he's not as blatant a crook as some of them are.

They are equally blatant, in the criminal world, I'd compare them as break and enter theft vs corporate embezzlement. The latter being more visionary, big picture, smarter, and far more the charismatic type. The latter also being more damaging because of the sheer numbers affected, and the lack of conscience/knowledge concerning where their money comes from.

[Agramon]

I think the comparison of your run of the mill pastor to a criminal is way overblown. Most pastors are good people who are just very wrong when it comes to religious matters.

I went to bible college with many people who are currently pastors. The large majority of them work other jobs to supplement their income because they don't make enough to live on from being a pastor and aren't willing to ask for a raise.

There are pastors, probably the majority, that do truly work for the good of their congregation and do make serious efforts in counseling and shepherding their flock. But the very nature of their "calling" puts them in a position of trust and power almost by default. The long history of religion being one of trust works for them, and anyone with a bent to exploit it likely will. Prosperity gospel is simply a more blatant example of how that trust can be manipulated.

Which is why it is so soundly condemned in the circles I'm most familiar with. Many pastors I know willingly live on the edge of poverty to serve their people and to see others making millions off of their "ministry" is especially heinous (hello Pat Robertson).

[Smartmarzipan]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-rick-henderson/osteen-meyer-prosperity-gospel_b_3790384.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

I have been preaching for 20 years. Yesterday I did something that I have never done before in a sermon. I publicly called out false teachers and named them by name. I said:

If you listen to Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer, if you take what they teach seriously, it will not be good for you. It will be detrimental to your long-term growth as a follower of Jesus.
(You can watch my sermon here.)

I used to think that their error was so blatantly obvious that they could just be ignored. I was wrong. They are massively growing in popularity in the evangelical world and are seen as credible and helpful. Before I'm inundated with questioning emails I want to share why I distrust these two and think you should as well. So, don't shoot me -- at least not yet.

When I was a kid I could tell the difference between neighborhood kids who wanted to be my friend from the neighborhood kids who were my friends so that they could play with my toys. Joel and Joyce are the latter. They both teach a twisted form of Christianity that teaches obedience, giving and faith as a way to get things from God. They are both products of what is known as the Prosperity Gospel and The Word of Faith Movement, or the Seed Faith Movement.

Dangers of the Prosperity Gospel

John Piper does a great job of defining what the Prosperity Gospel is and why it is so sinister. Please take a few minutes to watch this before moving on the critiques of Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen:

I'm posting this because the next to last church I was involved in as a Christian was a prosperity gospel church (Foursquare, founded by radio faith healer Aimee Semple McPherson back during the Depression) And definitely was almost the last straw for my cognitive dissonance. I looked the other way for years after leaving Mormonism and dragging my family out, out of guilt I guess.

Prosperity gospel is more about making the preacher prosperous than anything, and I'm glad somebody finally called them out. One pastor calling out others is a rare occurrence in my experience, so this is notable for that alone.

I've always found it weird that so many people support this gospel, considering that Jesus was a poor man who preached against material things. But, I suppose it's the human condition to want things and feel entitled, and I guess the promise of Heaven is not enough.

A while back I posted pics of a letter I got in the mail that claimed I could get rich and prosperous by praying and donating money. Because god really wanted my money, apparently.

Oh! I just remembered this!! You guys are gonna love this.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc ... eality-tv/

 

[Smartmarzipan]

everybody agrees with me and Ima gonna be rich.......someday".

This immediately made me think of all the voters out there who keep voting for rich dicks who want to get rid of social programs, safety nets, etc. (even if it hurts the people voting for them!), because those rich dicks keep promising them that with a little hard work, you too can be a rick dick like me!

Ah, how the promise of financial security (and them some) can sway and manipulate people....

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Pray to me for a million dollars and if I don't give it to you you're not praying right or not hard enough. I and I alone determine if you're praying right or hard enough.
All this horseshit grew out of the 1930s self help books and 'rugged individualism' bullshit.

[Colanth]

There are pastors, probably the majority, that do truly work for the good of their congregation and do make serious efforts in counseling and shepherding their flock. But the very nature of their "calling" puts them in a position of trust and power almost by default. The long history of religion being one of trust works for them, and anyone with a bent to exploit it likely will.

IMO they all exploit it - by not doing a single useful thing and being supported for it.  (The best they can do for their congregationists is give them platitudes, which anyone on the street is equally qualified to do.)

[Colanth]

It depends on the church really. While a good part of the church's money comes from tithing, churches do tend to invest the money into various places and use the returns to fund the church. At least at the churches I used to be a part of it was very transparent, with business meetings every quarter to account for spending.

Church business shouldn't be taxed.  But money earned from investment should be, whether a church or a business does it.

The SOLE reason churches aren't taxed is that the power to tax is the power to control.  Investment SHOULD BE controlled, even if it's a church doing it.