Defending the use of "poison" regarding religion. "OP/ED".

[Brian37]

When hanging out at atheists websites here and elsewhere, one thing we are is diverse, but often, and rightfully so our own harshest critics. "Anti" this or "phobia" that are falsely hurled at us, and it does not help us by placating the insecurities of believers by neutering in every case our criticism of religion. It is my position that it is good for believers to see our public infighting, if for nothing more than for them to see that we are individuals, just like any other label.

The biggest mistake humans make, which allows all labels to fall into PC traps of any label, is not separating the individual, from the multitude of claims and positions that individual might hold. It is not, for example, impossible for me to see Malala or Martin Luther King Jr, as heros, while still seeing their personal god/s as bunk. Just as in turn, it is not impossible for our believing family and friends to love us, while hating the fact we don't believe.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1000497/famous ... -at-salon/

Sam Harris rightfully gave credit to Malala, as all of humanity should. Malala doesn't just represent the plight of Muslim girls/women, but all women worldwide. While humanity should appreciate her bravery, it should not mean claims of invisible beings, of any label should get a pass.

The same could be said for Martin Luther King Jr. When one does their homework, they will find that most atheists back during his day, supported his movement, and two of his biggest supporters were atheists. It still would not make virgin births possible or surviving rigor mortis possible.

The point of calling religion poison is not to rid the world of it by force. It is a poison because at it's core it teaches to accept first, defend first, and far too often blind obedience. It is sad that it takes a Malala or King to progress humanity. Ignorance is not bliss, and human progress is never made in setting up taboos.

There are now attempts to make an "atheist church", and to me this is no different. Anything can become a religion and if given enough political power can become abusive and tyrannical. I have been falsely accused of being "dogmatic" , which is stupid because I have also warned atheists not to go around saying "When we become the majority we will treat you better". Cussing and blasphemy do not make me "dogmatic", just blunt. If I was treating atheism as a cure, like an ultimate utopia, I would not be criticizing attempts of fellow atheists of trying to compete with religion by setting up a church themselves.

There is a reason no one should get a pass, and I mean no one, because we are a diverse species, once you start insisting on taboos, politics and money by any group can become an ideology(treated like religion) to the point where dissent is oppressed. "Religion" is nothing more than our species taking our natural grouping in evolution, and setting up "in group" vs"out group", and turns it into a comic book fictional utopia, which will never be achieved by any label.

I will not back off calling religion poison. Hurricanes and tornados are natural too. Volcanos make land and give nutrients to soil, but that does not mean we want those things affecting us. And as I said before, "religion" isn't confined to Islam or Christianity or Hebrew or whatever. "Religion" can be worship of a political party, a nationality, or business, or even something really stupid like a sports team where a fan will be so deeply deluded to the point of a fist fight.

Anything left to it to it's own devices without checks and balances and the ability to question, is a religion.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

There's not a hell of a lot of difference between organized religion and the concept of organized atheism. All of us know people who believe in god, but never attend churches and don't buy into the dogma. Belief doesn't make one dumber nor smarter and the same holds true of atheism.
While I am repulsed by churches and the dogma nearly all my friends still believe when they die some big boogieman will send them to heaven for merely believing. They live otherwise normal existences just like me and you.
Not everyone who believes in god goes to church and in fact many never attend.
I'm more repulsed by churches, the greed and power grabs by far than anyone who merely believes in the supernatural.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

There's not a hell of a lot of difference between organized religion and the concept of organized atheism.

Hell, if you count religions like Buddhism and Daoism, organized atheism already exists, and it is a religion.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

There's not a hell of a lot of difference between organized religion and the concept of organized atheism.

Hell, if you count religions like Buddhism and Daoism, organized atheism already exists, and it is a religion.

Hardly the same thing. Last check there were no big, gold temples nor statues dedicated to atheism..

[Hijiri Byakuren]

There's not a hell of a lot of difference between organized religion and the concept of organized atheism.

Hell, if you count religions like Buddhism and Daoism, organized atheism already exists, and it is a religion.

Hardly the same thing. Last check there were no big, gold temples nor statues dedicated to atheism..

I've never seen big, gold temples nor statues dedicated to theism, either: only theistic religions.

They don't believe in gods. (Necessarily.) Ergo, they're atheists. And they're religious. Therefore, it's organized atheism.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Ok.. Call them all atheists if you like. I'll call you a hair splitter.  :-k

[La Dolce Vita]

I've never seen big, gold temples nor statues dedicated to theism, either: only theistic religions.

They don't believe in gods. (Necessarily.) Ergo, they're atheists. And they're religious. Therefore, it's organized atheism.

The difference is that they are organized for issues not related to atheism, aside from categorically being atheistic. The faith of the members of organized theistic religions is directly related and organized because of theism. They are organized because of their belief in one or more theistic gods and what they believe said god(s) want them to do/believe. The faith of members of organized atheistic religions on the other hand are organized for belief in other extraordinary (typically supernatural) BS claims that just happens to be atheistic.

But I do see where you are coming from.

[Solitary]

I belong to this atheist church, check it out! http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/  Solitary

[Hijiri Byakuren]

The difference is that they are organized for issues not related to atheism, aside from categorically being atheistic.

Yes, thank you, Captain Obvious, I realize that.

Fine, shall I point out the LaVeyans instead? They're organized atheists who exist for the sole purpose of pissing on a particular theistic religion. (Christianity.) There. Happy now?

Sheesh, I try using well-known examples and people just have to go splitting hairs on me. I'll be sure to dig up the most obscure examples possible from now on.

[Solitary]

Splitting hairs at this forum? I see! How can I see that, it's like trying to see a quark, or a sound from a tree falling in a woods.   :roll:    Solitary

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Split hairs grow right out of my head. Darnest thing..I trim em ?ff and they just keep growing.. :-P

[GrinningYMIR]

While I do not condone outright religion in terms of atheism (those two things are supposed to be diametrically opposed, not one and the same) I do like being in groups of atheists, anything from a few friends to a forum like this. It makes me have the sense that I am not alone in my beliefs and it is comforting. It also provides security in a way, as I am able to get my ideas out to people who will actually listen to them, rather than brand me a heretic.

It might be different for me seeing as how I'm surrounded by super Christians, but there it is.

Organized religion is something I don't like, I prefer an organized ideal that many believe in. However; in our species' existence, an ideal that many believe in can quickly turn to fanaticism or a full blow religion.

Its difficult to explain in words, but I do for the most part agree with most of what has been posted above

[Brian37]

We are the same species, and no matter who has a majority now, or gains a majority in the future, when you set up taboos and demand blind loyalty you have created a religion.

[leo]

Poison is the best word for describing religion.

[Brian37]

Poison is the best word for describing religion.

You don't know how much shit I have been getting from some of my fellow atheists for saying what Hitchens said.

It isn't bigotry to say that "hey, this stuff may make you feel good, but it has horrible side effects". And they don't get that cussing and blasphemy does not equal "militant". It merely means you are calling something bullshit.