Hello everybody, it's been a while, I've been very busy, but now I'm here again.
Ok, the thing is that some relatives of my mother are coming to visit us in Costa Rica, they have lived in U.S.A. for many many years, in fact some of them were born there, anyway, it seems that they're really religious freaks (protestant christians) from what I've heard so far, (I REALLY REALLY hope that they're not fundies, that would be really uncomfortable... :shock: )
I've met very religious relatives (from Costa Rica though) and it hasn't been so bad, but I always hated "the questions" and how they seemed to want to push you towards adopting their beliefs system, and the majority of them have been catholics, and some protestants here and there.
And I know that there can be religious freaks in any part of the world, but I'm a bit worried about those from the U.S. :-k
So I was wondering what should I do, and I'd like a bit of advice from you guys.
P.S.
Some of them come from New York, so I suppose I shouldn't be too worried about those... :wink:
It's a good opportunity to be evasive, change the subject and avoid whatever you don't want to talk about. It's a handy skill to develop.
Hi. I am a glass half full kind of person. :)
Quote from: "Rob4you"Hello everybody, it's been a while, I've been very busy, but now I'm here again.
Ok, the thing is that some relatives of my mother are coming to visit us in Costa Rica, they have lived in U.S.A. for many many years, in fact some of them were born there, anyway, it seems that they're really religious freaks (protestant christians) from what I've heard so far, (I REALLY REALLY hope that they're not fundies, that would be really uncomfortable... :shock: )
I've met very religious relatives (from Costa Rica though) and it hasn't been so bad, but I always hated "the questions" and how they seemed to want to push you towards adopting their beliefs system, and the majority of them have been catholics, and some protestants here and there.
And I know that there can be religious freaks in any part of the world, but I'm a bit worried about those from the U.S. :-k
So I was wondering what should I do, and I'd like a bit of advice from you guys.
P.S.
Some of them come from New York, so I suppose I shouldn't be too worried about those... :wink:
You SHOULD be worried USA fundies are dangerous and intollerant. My advice is not to bring the subjevt up, but if it does come up ask them, no tell them to respect your views and that you will respect theirs, but you prefer NOT to talk about religion in YOUR HOME!
Quote from: "Rob4you"Hello everybody, it's been a while, I've been very busy, but now I'm here again.
Ok, the thing is that some relatives of my mother are coming to visit us in Costa Rica, they have lived in U.S.A. for many many years, in fact some of them were born there, anyway, it seems that they're really religious freaks (protestant christians) from what I've heard so far, (I REALLY REALLY hope that they're not fundies, that would be really uncomfortable... :shock: )
I've met very religious relatives (from Costa Rica though) and it hasn't been so bad, but I always hated "the questions" and how they seemed to want to push you towards adopting their beliefs system, and the majority of them have been catholics, and some protestants here and there.
And I know that there can be religious freaks in any part of the world, but I'm a bit worried about those from the U.S. :-k
So I was wondering what should I do, and I'd like a bit of advice from you guys.
P.S.
Some of them come from New York, so I suppose I shouldn't be too worried about those... :wink:
You could go down the 'a person's beliefs are their own private business' road if you prefer to avoid confrontation. Failing that, an axe. :twisted:
That is my go-to, Youssuf. I have said things like "I have always looked at this as an intensely private topic, I really prefer not to talk about it".
Or you could go the "I'm not religious" route.
Why does an atheistic belief have to be private while theistic beliefs can be public? Tell them your an atheist and that you don't want to discuss the matter if it is brought up. 8-) Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"Why does an atheistic belief have to be private while theistic beliefs can be public?
Because atheism is a lack of belief. I think that religious people are frightened by someone that doesn't have a religious belief because they don't understand it.
Quote from: "Jason78"I think that religious people are frightened by someone that doesn't have a religious belief because they don't understand it.
They can't even hold the concept in their minds. If the species had no eyes and you could see, they couldn't hold the concept of sight. Like that. It doesn't frighten them, it terrifies them. So much that they make up things like "you really believe, but you refuse to admit it", rather than actually think about what it means.
Rob, learn one word - "uh-huh". Nod a lot.
Oh, and the ones from NYC can be particularly bad. I say this as someone who grew up there. You'd think that, since - on the street - no one seems to care about religion, anyone growing up in NYC doesn't care about it. Not true. Some NYC fundies are as bad as fundamentalism can get - just not in public.
Quote from: "Atheon"Or you could go the "I'm not religious" route.
The trouble is that an admission of atheistic tendencies, or other statement of non-religiosity will generally lead to the religious nut in question to try and convert you or at least start some retarded conversation full of hackneyed rent-a-quotes about God etc. That's fine if you relish the prospect of delivering a good, old-fashioned logical ass-kicking to the poor boob, but I'm guessing the OP is heading more towards the path of least resistance.... :-k
Quote from: "Solitary"Why does an atheistic belief have to be private while theistic beliefs can be public? Tell them your an atheist and that you don't want to discuss the matter if it is brought up. 8-) Solitary
It doesn't have to be. It's just not worth the hassle. I don't want to discuss it with anyone. If you do, more power to you. I just don't see any value in talking about my lack of religious beliefs any more than I'd see value talking about my political proclivities.
Quote from: "Mermaid"Quote from: "Solitary"Why does an atheistic belief have to be private while theistic beliefs can be public? Tell them your an atheist and that you don't want to discuss the matter if it is brought up. 8-) Solitary
It doesn't have to be. It's just not worth the hassle. I don't want to discuss it with anyone. If you do, more power to you. I just don't see any value in talking about my lack of religious beliefs any more than I'd see value talking about my political proclivities.
I agree Mermaid. When religious differences have been breached it only leads to distress and discord. Families tend to have enough to deal with as far as I can see.
We cant tell you how to deal with your relatives. Why would we? Only you know them and can gauge them better because you know them.
I have religious family members. Only one I have refused to have contact with, and not because he is religious.
I don't disown people merely because they may hold beliefs I find bat shit insane. But, I have cut off relationships, because that person, as an individual sucked the life out of me. Cutting someone out of your life is more about your own personal sanity and emotional stability than it is any subject that might divide you.
No matter the topic, money, politics, religion, or even personality. Healthy relationships are never all or nothing. It isn't about throwing yourself at them, that will simply make you a doormat. Nor is it them conforming to you.
In any situation that conflict happens over whatever subject, it is always cost benefit and comfort. What are you willing to accept without giving up your own autonomy and what are they willing to accept about you.
Life isn't a script so there is never a simple answer or blanket solution. My best advice for you is to know yourself and be yourself. Don't expect others to change for you, but don't change so much for other you simply live a lie to placate them.
I've struggled with conflicting desires both to hide my nonbelief and to blatantly expose it to my Christian family. A while back I remember asking my brother who is an atheist what he did when he was at an event where the hosts or whoever said "let's hold hands and pray" and he told me well who cares if you pretend to just to go along with it. "If people want to believe you are a Christian then let them." I'm not sure I would bow my head and pretend to pray but when he said that I realized that I didn't have to be making a big deal out of things like that. As of right now the rest of my family thinks, due to some vague thoughts that I posted on Facebook, that I still believe in God but am having doubts. No one has actually asked me! My sister invited me to the Creation Museum the other day and expressed hope that it would answer some of my questions! I thought of saying to her what I thought of the Creation Museum, but decided it might ruin her day :P and replied simply "sounds cool"
I guess what I'm trying to say is, we don't really need to go around debating or explaining ourselves to everyone. If people insist on being jerks about it, well why should you really care all that much. There's no need to even engage in any conversation about religion at all. They can ask the questions all they want, you can just politely decline to answer them. Say you just don't feel like talking about that.
Of course it could depend on their attitudes. I bet you would be able to tell if they are genuinely interested in hearing your pov or if they're just trying to start a conversion conversation. I would probably talk to people if I felt that they were actually interested.
I respect my family and friends for being religious, I don't agree with it, I don't believe it, but I respect it because they don't try to push it on me.
If your family is made up of good people, they won't bring the subject up, and if they do, just be polite and say you don't wish to discuss it.
If they push the matter, politely but firmly state that you have no wish to talk about it.
If it continues you can refuse to be in there presence or kick them out, they don't have the right to preach about you, especially when you've made it clear that you have no desire to hear any of it.
Quote from: "Youssuf Ramadan"Quote from: "Atheon"Or you could go the "I'm not religious" route.
The trouble is that an admission of atheistic tendencies, or other statement of non-religiosity will generally lead to the religious nut in question to try and convert you or at least start some retarded conversation full of hackneyed rent-a-quotes about God etc. That's fine if you relish the prospect of delivering a good, old-fashioned logical ass-kicking to the poor boob, but I'm guessing the OP is heading more towards the path of least resistance.... :-k
Well, yes, I suppose I want to go to the path of less conflict.
Quote from: "Brian37"We cant tell you how to deal with your relatives. Why would we? Only you know them and can gauge them better because you know them.
I have religious family members. Only one I have refused to have contact with, and not because he is religious.
I don't disown people merely because they may hold beliefs I find bat shit insane. But, I have cut off relationships, because that person, as an individual sucked the life out of me. Cutting someone out of your life is more about your own personal sanity and emotional stability than it is any subject that might divide you.
No matter the topic, money, politics, religion, or even personality. Healthy relationships are never all or nothing. It isn't about throwing yourself at them, that will simply make you a doormat. Nor is it them conforming to you.
In any situation that conflict happens over whatever subject, it is always cost benefit and comfort. What are you willing to accept without giving up your own autonomy and what are they willing to accept about you.
Life isn't a script so there is never a simple answer or blanket solution. My best advice for you is to know yourself and be yourself. Don't expect others to change for you, but don't change so much for other you simply live a lie to placate them.
Thank you, but actually I don't know them... yet, I've only heard a bit about them, I suppose that sometimes conflict is unavoidable, but I'm hoping for the best. :)
Thank you to all of you, any other advice would be appreciated.
And thank you
Colanth. :)
Assuming that they don't believe in false religion, I try to encourage them in their faith or expose them to things that they may not have heard or may not have learned in their current religious environment. However, I try to only do that kind of thing if the appropriate moment presents itself. I tend not to push or project in environments that aren't open.
I personally love to argue. Not when it gets personal though. Only if the other party is genuinely reasoning without arguing at-the-person or name calling. Good luck getting some Christians to keep a discussion civil. :Hangman: But if they know you are an atheist, they are mandated by the Bible to try to save your soul. So I would be AT LEAST prepared for a little bit of preaching. Just have a thick skin, and be an example to them of "good people", if you know what I mean. You'll have to judge for yourself if there's any room at all for some healthy debate. Probably not much, I imagine.
KEEP US POSTED ON HOW IT GOES!
A truly awkward situation my friend, as a fellow athiest it almost seems like we are inclined to strike up a debate when a believer or creationist gives us the opportunity, however when it comes to family especially your family that is becoming close to elderly it's almost like you don't want to burst their bubble and crush there dreams of a better life after this one.
Quote from: "gomtuu77"Assuming that they don't believe in false religion
It's YOUR request that we remember to whom we're speaking. To an atheist, ALL religion is false.
Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "gomtuu77"Assuming that they don't believe in false religion
It's YOUR request that we remember to whom we're speaking. To an atheist, ALL religion is false.
Yes, I know, but I'm a Christian. And I believe Christianity is true, though many churches are filled with the unregenerate.
Quote from: "Solomon Zorn"I personally love to argue. Not when it gets personal though. Only if the other party is genuinely reasoning without arguing at-the-person or name calling. Good luck getting some Christians to keep a discussion civil. :Hangman: But if they know you are an atheist, they are mandated by the Bible to try to save your soul. So I would be AT LEAST prepared for a little bit of preaching. Just have a thick skin, and be an example to them of "good people", if you know what I mean. You'll have to judge for yourself if there's any room at all for some healthy debate. Probably not much, I imagine.
KEEP US POSTED ON HOW IT GOES!
Thanks, but actually I'd prefer to avoid conflict with family, at least, but of course I'll be expecting a little bit of preaching! And about your request, will do! but relax, there's still plenty of time, they're coming next month, but I'd like to be prepared in advance, just in case. :wink:
Quote from: "You Only Live Once"A truly awkward situation my friend, as a fellow atheist it almost seems like we are inclined to strike up a debate when a believer or creationist gives us the opportunity, however when it comes to family especially your family that is becoming close to elderly it's almost like you don't want to burst their bubble and crush there dreams of a better life after this one.
Yes, I wouldn't like to do that I think I'm a softie. :lol:
Quote from: "gomtuu77"Assuming that they don't believe in false religion,
You mean like Christianity to everyone who isn't a Christian?
Quote from: "gomtuu77"Assuming that they don't believe in false religion, I try to encourage them in their faith or expose them to things that they may not have heard or may not have learned in their current religious environment. However, I try to only do that kind of thing if the appropriate moment presents itself. I tend not to push or project in environments that aren't open.
The OP was actually asking advice on how to deal with people like you, not on how you would deal with your fellow proselytizers (that is, circle jerking).
Quote from: "Rob4you"Hello everybody, it's been a while, I've been very busy, but now I'm here again.
Ok, the thing is that some relatives of my mother are coming to visit us in Costa Rica, they have lived in U.S.A. for many many years, in fact some of them were born there, anyway, it seems that they're really religious freaks (protestant christians) from what I've heard so far, (I REALLY REALLY hope that they're not fundies, that would be really uncomfortable... :shock: )
I've met very religious relatives (from Costa Rica though) and it hasn't been so bad, but I always hated "the questions" and how they seemed to want to push you towards adopting their beliefs system, and the majority of them have been catholics, and some protestants here and there.
And I know that there can be religious freaks in any part of the world, but I'm a bit worried about those from the U.S. :-k
So I was wondering what should I do, and I'd like a bit of advice from you guys.
P.S.
Some of them come from New York, so I suppose I shouldn't be too worried about those... :wink:
When they come to your place, open the door wearing only an apron on which you've drawn a pentagram with blood. Holding a knife would be a nice plus. That should set them straight.
Or you could try to just avoid any religious discussion and tell them politely that religion is a private matter and you don't feel comfortable talking about it.
(I still prefer the first option, though...)
Quote from: "gomtuu77"Quote from: "Colanth"It's YOUR request that we remember to whom we're speaking. To an atheist, ALL religion is false.
Yes, I know, but I'm a Christian. And I believe Christianity is true
And we don't. You want us to respect your beliefs, but you ignore ours. Is that what true Christianity is all about? That seems to be what you're telling us.
Quote from: "gomtuu77"Quote from: "Colanth"Quote from: "gomtuu77"Assuming that they don't believe in false religion
It's YOUR request that we remember to whom we're speaking. To an atheist, ALL religion is false.
Yes, I know, but I'm a Christian. And I believe Christianity is true, though many churches are filled with the unregenerate.
I wonder why God allows those people to poison the very house where he places his name. It's like knowing there's a child molester in your house, but you let him pay room and board, and leave him to babysit your kids.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Solitary"Why does an atheistic belief have to be private while theistic beliefs can be public?
Because atheism is a lack of belief. I think that religious people are frightened by someone that doesn't have a religious belief because they don't understand it.
Doesn't that come under the general heading of "their problem?"
Quote from: "ApostateLois"It's like knowing there's a child molester in your house, but you let him pay room and board, and leave him to babysit your kids.
You expect God to make all Catholic churches disappear or something? :)
My advice while perhaps uncomfortable at times is always effective. Always summon up her dental deity, The Tooth Fairy and mention she's the ONLY deity to ever pay cold, hard cash.
In the event of dental failure I have a backup plan that is rather crass, but effective and it goes like this: Go fuck yourself!
Ok,I guess I still an confused.Im 58 and have been in the closet since I was in my early 20s.After much research reading and listening to many debates and lectures I finally decided to join this forum as I was tired of lying to myself and others.My life has been based mostly on symbolism,when I graduated from nursing school I proudly wore my class pin as a symbol of achievement I guess,and after completing the grueling police academy I proudly displayed my badge on my chest for 24 years and still carry a retirement badge.Recently I purchased a necklace displaying the international symbol for Atheism.I will no longer be afraid of what Christians think about me!Im out of the closet and not going back!but I guess some of you make sense too.There in lies the confusion.