Hi

[Mike Cl]

I already explained you in details but unfortunately you didn't get it.
Remember when I said that you can not prove that your love for a person can not be explained to anybody else and the only evidence that you experienced this love is the release of some extra hormones that are produced by our glands?

Oh, I get it.  I have from the beginning of your posts here.  You just don't want to see that emotions are based in the material world (since that is all there is).

Let science inform you:

Let’s Get Chemical
Lust is driven by the desire for sexual gratification. The evolutionary basis for this stems from our need to reproduce, a need shared among all living things. Through reproduction, organisms pass on their genes, and thus contribute to the perpetuation of their species.

The hypothalamus of the brain plays a big role in this, stimulating the production of the sex hormones testosterone and estrogen from the testes and ovaries (Figure 1). While these chemicals are often stereotyped as being “male” and “female,” respectively, both play a role in men and women. As it turns out, testosterone increases libido in just about everyone. The effects are less pronounced with estrogen, but some women report being more sexually motivated around the time they ovulate, when estrogen levels are highest.

Figure 1
Figure 1: A: The testes and ovaries secrete the sex hormones testosterone and estrogen, driving sexual desire. B and C: Dopamine, oxytocin, and vasopressin are all made in the hypothalamus, a region of the brain that controls many vital functions as well as emotion. D: Several of the regions of the brain that affect love. Lust and attraction shut off the prefrontal cortex of the brain, which includes rational behavior.
Love is its Own Reward
Meanwhile, attraction seems to be a distinct, though closely related, phenomenon. While we can certainly lust for someone we are attracted to, and vice versa, one can happen without the other. Attraction involves the brain pathways that control “reward” behavior (Figure 1), which partly explains why the first few weeks or months of a relationship can be so exhilarating and even all-consuming.

Dopamine, produced by the hypothalamus, is a particularly well-publicized player in the brain’s reward pathway â€" it’s released when we do things that feel good to us. In this case, these things include spending time with loved ones and having sex. High levels of dopamine and a related hormone, norepinephrine, are released during attraction. These chemicals make us giddy, energetic, and euphoric, even leading to decreased appetite and insomnia â€" which means you actually can be so “in love” that you can’t eat and can’t sleep. In fact, norepinephrine, also known as noradrenalin, may sound familiar because it plays a large role in the fight or flight response, which kicks into high gear when we’re stressed and keeps us alert. Brain scans of people in love have actually shown that the primary “reward” centers of the brain, including the and the caudate nucleus (Figure 1), fire like crazy when people are shown a photo of someone they are intensely attracted to, compared to when they are shown someone they feel neutral towards (like an old high school acquaintance).

Finally, attraction seems to lead to a reduction in serotonin, a hormone that’s known to be involved in appetite and mood. Interestingly, people who suffer from obsessive-compulsive disorder also have low levels of serotonin, leading scientists to speculate that this is what underlies the overpowering infatuation that characterizes the beginning stages of love.

The Friend Zone
Last but not least, attachment is the predominant factor in long-term relationships. While lust and attraction are pretty much exclusive to romantic entanglements, attachment mediates friendships, parent-infant bonding, social cordiality, and many other intimacies as well. The two primary hormones here appear to be oxytocin and vasopressin (Figure 1).

Oxytocin is often nicknamed “cuddle hormone” for this reason. Like dopamine, oxytocin is produced by the hypothalamus and released in large quantities during sex, breastfeeding, and childbirth. This may seem like a very strange assortment of activities â€" not all of which are necessarily enjoyable â€" but the common factor here is that all of these events are precursors to bonding. It also makes it pretty clear why having separate areas for attachment, lust, and attraction is important: we are attached to our immediate family, but those other emotions have no business there (and let’s just say people who have muddled this up don’t have the best track record).

We are on the road to further understand of our emotions using the scientific method to keep on gaining information.  We do not know all there is to know about emotions, but we know far far more than we did 100 years ago.  And far less than we will know in another 100 years.  We don't need belief or faith or wishful thinking, or calling upon fiction of any kind, to gain that info.  Just the scientific method.  You would do well if you studied that instead of ancient fictions you love to rely on.

[Mike Cl]

If you find so hard to prove a simple physical-mental love how on hearth can you prove something a lot more subtle such as spiritual love?

The only way to find evidence is to experience this love ourselves.
Nothing else will work because love is personal.

I think you are really a 15th cent. monk that has somehow escaped to the current times.  You use the same language of a monk of that time period.  And you seem to refuse to even consider anything science has to say about emotions and how our brain works.  You put more weight on old painting of religious people with halos over their heads and treat that as a proof of what you want to believe.  Of course the saints are depicted as being special and have a special connection of their god.  That is part of the snake-oil salesmanship that religion is; keep giving the masses what they want and charge them dearly for it.  Holy pictures, words, works, rules, scripture, and heroes are all part of the scam that keeps the common people in their place with promises of happiness later on, so don't worry about it now and just suffer along with god's words and demands and you will be just wonderful; and all the while the religious hierarchy gets rich and powerful.

As for love and how we experience it can be explained in detail (no, not perfectly yet) by science.  And more and more is learned each and every year.  But one has to be willing to put in the time and study of such subjects to hope to understand any of it.  It takes work and not faith or belief.  If you would spend half the time researching biological science as I have in researching religions, you may very well change your opinion on such subjects.

[Mike Cl]

If you go around a pub you can see many people which engage in drinking-smoking or using drugs with a face showing failure in life and sinking in consciousness but in other places you can also see people with bliss and peace of mind impress in their look.

Don't take me wrong.
Even among Atheists you find a lot of really good people that sooner or later will overtake that fantasy that the universe pop up as per magic and nobody run it.
All is not lost after all but the evidence can only come by our hard work.

Judgmental much???  You have the ability to simply look at people and tell if they are a failure in life or full of peace and bliss???  Wow!  And blissful people never enter pubs or bars?  Really?  And what is 'bliss' for you?  And how do you know you are experiencing it?  Joseph Campbell likes 'bliss'--he says that the purpose of life is life.  And we as individuals, need to find our bliss and when we do we will then be happy/content with life; and that bliss (whatever it is) will give our life meaning.   

Oh, I have never taken you wrong.  You look down upon 'atheists' as simply wrong-headed and simply 'believe' in the wrong stuff.  We are mislead.  You are here to straighten our thinking out--to help us replace thinking with faith and belief for that is the way to god.  You want us to confess to believing in magic--for how could this super complicated universe be created other than by a super complicated god????--as you do (but in just the wrong magic).  Yes, all evidence (once again, you have not provided any evidence, only personal feelings and beliefs and anecdotes) comes only by our hard work.  It would be helpful if you would do some of that hard work and not just rely on fictions.  But then, you are a theist...............................

[Baruch]

Calling supposition and opinion evidence does not suggest any "hard work" was involved.

Which is why the arts are bullshit?

Science?  How about Ohm's Law aka V=I*R.  This is actually semi-empirical.  That equation doesn't give a modern explanation, but it is used by engineers every day, because it is good enough.  The actual expiation is quantum mechanical (solid state physics).  But looking at this from a greater perspective, we have to conclude that QM is also a partial explanation (though not according to Neils Bohr).  We need String Theory or whatever ... when it comes.  And on it goes, superficial explanation one after another in layers.  Ultimately, there is no full explanation, just what is enough to convince a tribe of monkeys on a minor planet in a minor solar system in a minor galaxy.  Which is to say ... animal psychology.

[aitm]

How about Ohm's Law

What about it? Was the gentlemen a street idiot walking around spouting various formula's until someone caught what he said and developed it? or was he...you know..maybe perhaps learned in the field whereas it would take a good deal of knowledge to start "guessing"?

[Baruch]

What about it? Was the gentlemen a street idiot walking around spouting various formula's until someone caught what he said and developed it? or was he...you know..maybe perhaps learned in the field whereas it would take a good deal of knowledge to start "guessing"?

Curve fitting.  Did you ever do that is science class in public school?  But you can fit any number of curves thru the same data.  And each curve, represents a different explanation of what is going on.  Of course, for engineers we need the simplest model, that is sufficient for government work ;-)  Meanwhile, in actual situations, not toy situations, you can't actually solve closed or numerically, the QM equations.  The problem with String Theory is that it is "fit any number of curves" in spades ... literally an infinite number of related equations will fit the data, because there are too many free parameters to nail down.  Compare to Ohm's Law.

And yes, per statisticians, including Big Data analysis, and partially in QM, yes we do pick randomly, just not completely randomly (Monte Carlo Analysis).

And of course, just like a 20 year old, you worship academics with fancy degrees.  Electrical engineering is pretty pat.  Medical science less so (non reproducibility).

[Blackleaf]

Physical science is about the physical reality.
A reality that is also perceived by our senses.
The other science is about what is also real but what can not be perceived by our senses because it is abstract.

And here I am talking about the science that is related to our consciousness.
In Yoga this science is better known as INTUITIONAL SCIENCE.

Why intuitional?
Because to perceive it it is needed a different system from what is used to understand physical science and this system is called yoga.

Most people wrongly think that the consciousness is fixed.
What you got you got and that's it but that is not the case because consciousness can change for the better or the worse.
Everything in this universe move and change so if you have a system to make sure that the consciousness increase you win that is why this intuitional science is so important.

Yoga is not a science. Jesus fucking Christ. The study of the mind is the realm of psychology, which is my field. If you can't directly observe something or measure it, and if your claims are nonfalsifiable, it's not science. Even in the field of psychology, of course we can't directly observe the mind, so we infer about it based on behaviors. That's why it's often called a "soft science." Yoga, though? Fucking hell. You clearly don't understand a bloody thing about science if you really think "intuitional science" is a thing. That's an oxymoron. If it's intuition that drives the study, it can't be science. Personal experience is not scientific; it is anecdotal.

[Baruch]

Which is why a Nullification Field needs to be activated, to suppress all personal experience.  That way as a real NPC, we can be easier to collectivize.  Like those lame Trade Federation robots taken down by Jar Jar Binks ;-)

If there is no subjective (personal) experience of objective (collective) experience (say repeat observation or experiment) then how can we define "objective"?  Doesn't the fact that one or more humans are involved, spoil the whole thing?  Unless you are talking about Plato's Forms.

[aitm]

yes we do pick randomly, just not completely randomly (Monte Carlo Analysis).

again....yet I don't know why, we are talking about people that have a more than familiar relationship with the field of study. As opposed to suggesting that ESP works mighty fine from the burger flipper at the local Micky D.

[Hydra009]

Physical science is about the physical reality.

aka reality

The other science is about what is also real but what can not be perceived by our senses because it is abstract.

The imperceptible and the nonexistent look very much alike.

Also, it's a bit strange that you claim to know of the existence of something that you also claim is imperceptible.  Pretty obvious problem right out of the gate.

In Yoga this science is better known as INTUITIONAL SCIENCE.

Does nonsense sound more credible when you put it in ALL CAPS?

[Cavebear]

The arrogance of humanity at its highest...is the belief that we are far more than the squirrel or acorn. We are not. The universe has shown we have no more nor less than anything else. But because we have achieved where the rock has not...we compare ourselves to gods....but still bury as us the rocks that we are.

I'm pretty sure I'm more than the average acorn...  But with all due respect, perhaps you are only speaking for yourself.  ;)

[aitm]

I'm pretty sure I'm more than the average acorn...  But with all due respect, perhaps you are only speaking for yourself.  ;)

Well I am sure our new guest thinks the consciousness of the acorn, not being of matter but of....whatever the hell he thinks it is, finds itself to be of more importance to the universe than we are. But we would all agree that the universe not only does not know us but could not care less. It's indifference is well known.

[Arik]

Calling supposition and opinion evidence does not suggest any "hard work" was involved.

Oh, well.........put it in this way aitm.
Suppose you are a 7 or 8 years old child and you see a couple of adult kissing.
To you it all would seems very strange.
You would think.......why they do that?
That look stupid.
After you grow up a little bit more you surely understand why and at that stage you will want to experience the same thing yourself.

But love is not all physical or mental.
There are different stages of love so physical love sooner or later as the consciousness reach new level will play a less important role in the mind of anybody and to explore new high will be a must.

Now most people who are still stuck in the physical-material reality think exactly like a small child that can not understand what spiritual love is all about but the time and the higher level of consciousness will turn this child into an adult that will want to experience that kind of love too.

There is no alternative aitm.
At the end everybody will get to that stage because the alternative is an animal life.
The scope of life for an evolved human being is not to do what animals do.
That stage will have to be overcome and left behind because new high are waiting for us.

The simple fact that you are here in this forum is because your consciousness tell you to go ahead in your progress and learn more and more in a never ending drive to a goal that you yet can not perceive but nevertheless is there otherwise your consciousness wouldn't push you to go ahead.

[Arik]

aka reality
The imperceptible and the nonexistent look very much alike.

Also, it's a bit strange that you claim to know of the existence of something that you also claim is imperceptible.  Pretty obvious problem right out of the gate.
Does nonsense sound more credible when you put it in ALL CAPS?

You got it wrong Hydra.

The fact that consciousness can not be perceived by our physical senses doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

The mind is there otherwise you could not do anything or exist at all.

The only thing is that the conscious-mind being abstract in nature can not be seen, touch, smell or heard but surely is there.
I know it exist because I exist.
One of the Atheists problem is that according to them things must be perceived by our senses to exist.
This concept doesn't make any sense as it didn't make any sense in the past that according to most the planet earth was the center of the universe.

[Arik]

Yoga is not a science. Jesus fucking Christ. The study of the mind is the realm of psychology, which is my field. If you can't directly observe something or measure it, and if your claims are nonfalsifiable, it's not science. Even in the field of psychology, of course we can't directly observe the mind, so we infer about it based on behaviors. That's why it's often called a "soft science." Yoga, though? Fucking hell. You clearly don't understand a bloody thing about science if you really think "intuitional science" is a thing. That's an oxymoron. If it's intuition that drives the study, it can't be science. Personal experience is not scientific; it is anecdotal.

Ok. then let me discuss your point when you say.......................Even in the field of psychology, of course we can't directly observe the mind, so we infer about it based on behaviors...........................

The yoga that you knock down goes further than that.
Beside to see the outer physical expression is also able to strengthen the mind which is something that physical science can not do.

Oh, by the way did you know that at the CERN in Geneva there is a statue of Shiva the very first scientist according to many.