http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/09/impeach-trump-protests-erupt-trump-on-election-win/
Protest already started. And this sounds like a riot. Guys be careful. These things catch on. Esp. now.
QuoteAngry mobs in West Coast cities took to the streets early Wednesday morning to protest the outcome of the presidential election, calling for the impeachment of President-Elect Donald Trump.
“Impeach Trump! Impeach Trump,†shouted protesters in Portland, Oregon after it became clear Trump had defeated rival Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton in a huge upset that shocked markets and the media.
In Oakland, Calif., protesters smashed windows and set tipped over trash cans on fire in the middle of the street and some of them yelling “No KKK!†â€" video footage released by the Associated Press shows.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/09/impeach-trump-protests-erupt-trump-on-election-win/#ixzz4PY5lCVd9
Guys, this is a riot. Looks like a little one and seems somebody got hit by a car. Don't go into cities. Stay away from central places.
Trump win sparks riots across US as crowds burn American flag and chant 'Not our president'QuoteClinton supporters were filmed setting fire to the US flag while marching through the streets of Portland, Oregon, shouting "F*** Donald Trump"
Crowds of angry protesters have taken to streets across the United States chanting "Not Our President" while setting fires and smashing windows.
Hundreds of people descended on California minutes after it was announced that Donald Trump had won the election.
Hillary Clinton supporters were filmed setting fire to the US flag while marching through the streets of Portland, Oregon, shouting "F*** Donald Trump".
Footage also emerged of activists setting tyres and rubbish bins on fire, blocking main roads and lighting flares.
People also burned an effigy of the President-elect, who will be officially sworn into office in January.
Meanwhile, a young student has reportedly been hit by an SUV and severely injured during a march in Berkeley, with one witness claiming the crash was intentional, according NBC Bay Area .
(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9225617.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Screen-Shot-2016-11-09-at-112538.jpg)
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9225193.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Protesters-against-president-elect-Donald-Trump-march-peacefully-through-Oakland.jpg)
(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9225334.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Reaction-to-the-US-Election-Oakland-USA-09-Nov-2016.jpg)
(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article9225184.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Protesters-against-president-elect-Donald-Trump-march-through-Oakland.jpg)
Man, I hate that the "sane party" is doing this shit now. Saying, "Not MY president!" and talking about impeaching a guy who isn't even in office yet.
First, how the fuck do you plan to do that with a minority in both the House and Senate?
Second, yes, he very much IS "your president" and "my president". He won the election. He's in charge. That's democracy, bitches! Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and either way the one elected is president of the USA. The only way he will not be "your president" is if you leave the country and give up your US citizenship. So put up or shut up because until that day, yes, he IS your president. And as far as I'm concerned anyone who talks about impeaching a president for the sole reason that they didn't like the outcome of the election or they're "scared" like a whiny bitch that their party isn't in charge is a traitor and an enemy to democracy, I don't care which side it's on. We voted, we lost, we fucking deal with it like adults.
You cannot blame anyone for getting angry, going out and making a protest; even for getting violent. Protest is a democractic right too. Social explosions are far more democractic than a rich, racist white president.
Calling these people 'scared whiny bitches' is pretty much Trump politics and you are whinning about people's reactions to a catastrophie. What did you think was going to happen?
But then is your life going to get an impact with Trump reign? I pretty much doubt it. You are a white man living in the middle of nowhere.
Apparently, this happened in the morning.
Trump and Clinton supporters brawl outside the White House as violence erupts across America
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3919654/Sign-things-come-Fights-break-outside-White-House-Trump-Hillary-supporters-clash-ugly-scenes.html
Perhaps we really are headed towards another civil war. I kind of doubt it, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. I live in S Carolina where the last one started.
Wait, isn't the daily caller a right wing rag? Propaganda?
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 09, 2016, 05:30:02 PM
Perhaps we really are headed towards another civil war. I kind of doubt it, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. I live in S Carolina where the last one started.
Any link? Can't see anything yet.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2016, 05:31:38 PM
Any link? Can't see anything yet.
Link to what? The last civil war? I'm just speculating out loud...well, in type..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/police-respond-to-shooting-near-los-angeles-area-polling-place/
Hmm...not related to the election? OK...
Strange, other than the Washington post the only other US "news" source covering any of it that I can find are right wing rags such as infowars.the rest appear to be either British or Russian...now that's odd..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 09, 2016, 05:35:47 PM
Link to what? The last civil war? I'm just speculating out loud...well, in type..
LOL When you said "I live in S Carolina where the last one started" I thought there was another one started over there, because of the elections. But it also didn't make much sense, because S Caroline is conservative right? :lol: Just a misunderstanding.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2016, 04:22:37 PM
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/09/impeach-trump-protests-erupt-trump-on-election-win/
Protest already started. And this sounds like a riot. Guys be careful. These things catch on. Esp. now.
It's the bed wetting toy throwers upset with losing.
Honestly, it's like looking at pictures of Tehran during the Green Revolution or places like Cairo during the Arab Spring; the young and the educated get fucked over by the bigotry and conservatism of the older generations. Then the rhetoric is the same; they are "bed wetting toy throwers upset with losing" or "Western educated trouble makers who don't belong in Egyptian/Iranian society" because they dare to protest homophobia and sexism that is, bluntly, a direct result of America's Puritan Christianity or want a secular state instead of a Ayatollah.
Congrats America, we are falling to the depths of Iran. At least Iran can blame us for overthrowing their secular government... what excuse do we have for letting radical Puritan ideology make 5/6th's of the American population either directly or silently support a bigoted government?
I have said it once, twice and some more again... people like you Baron are so, so similar to the very radicals you condemn... you just cheer to a different beat and don't realise it's the same song with a different tempo.
I don't think people actually got what happened, Shir. I am serious. Like Brits right now still saying "UKIP politics had no impact on our lives, Brexit won't be that bad! It was about healthcare". :lol:
Trump protesters gather, march in downtown Portland
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/trump-protesters-march-through-downtown-portland/350551752
Chicago: Protesters block entrance to Trump Tower
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-trump-hotel-protest-chicago-20161109-story.html
Trump protesters take to the street in Austin, Denton, across the nation
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/2016-presidential-election/2016/11/09/small-protests-erupt-trump-presidency-west-coast-sees-activity
I'm guessing these will disappear in a few days or actually even tomorrow and won't get big? Say yes, please.
Research something serious, the Chicago Convention riots of 1968 ... lasted for decades, that one did ;-)
You can only impeach, for what Trump does after he is in office ... Bill Clinton wasn't impeached (indicted) over his bad behavior as Arkansas governor. Besides, he was just being a good old boy, like Jack Kennedy. Impeachment is highly unlikely ... plenty of President's deserved it, and never got it.
Don't know. I know if one pops up in San Marcos I will probably go. I would reckon LAMBDA (our LGBT community) will hold some type of event.
More than likely they will die down until he is officially sworn in.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 09, 2016, 06:18:46 PM
Strange, other than the Washington post the only other US "news" source covering any of it that I can find are right wing rags such as infowars.the rest appear to be either British or Russian...now that's odd..
I trust the BBC and RT ... American media, not so much.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 09, 2016, 08:05:34 PM
Honestly, it's like looking at pictures of Tehran during the Green Revolution or places like Cairo during the Arab Spring; the young and the educated get fucked over by the bigotry and conservatism of the older generations. Then the rhetoric is the same; they are "bed wetting toy throwers upset with losing" or "Western educated trouble makers who don't belong in Egyptian/Iranian society" because they dare to protest homophobia and sexism that is, bluntly, a direct result of America's Puritan Christianity or want a secular state instead of a Ayatollah.
Congrats America, we are falling to the depths of Iran. At least Iran can blame us for overthrowing their secular government... what excuse do we have for letting radical Puritan ideology make 5/6th's of the American population either directly or silently support a bigoted government?
I have said it once, twice and some more again... people like you Baron are so, so similar to the very radicals you condemn... you just cheer to a different beat and don't realise it's the same song with a different tempo.
Read Persepolis, or watch the animated movie (in French) ... get some perspective.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 09, 2016, 08:47:41 PM
Don't know. I know if one pops up in San Marcos I will probably go. I would reckon LAMBDA (our LGBT community) will hold some type of event.
More than likely they will die down until he is officially sworn in.
Be careful. Don't get in front. Stay somewhere at right back where you can see the action clearly. Find people you can rely on.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2016, 09:53:24 PM
Be careful. Don't get in front. Stay somewhere at right back where you can see the action clearly. Find people you can rely on.
Et tu, Brute! Beware Greeks bearing gifts ... and Italians bearing daggers.
(http://www.buro247.sg/images/culture/spockartice.jpg)
I do, in part, agree with widdershins, but the other part of me is thinking "there will be an overthrow of the government" and also that that might be a good thing.
That is, after all, what Trump instigated and suggested. That all the politicians are corrupt and we need to get them out. Even if he was lying to get votes, he probably didn't expect for this to happen from people opposing him
It's very hypocritical to be included in the only group this man hasn't targeted, insulted or theratened and call this people stupid or 'whiny bitches'.
I honestly don't get what people were expecting to happen? No protests at all?
The point is, we're going to have to accept Trump as our president and as the person that is in charge of a full third of our country for the time being.
That said, it's understandable that people are going to try to not let that happen as a last-ditch effort to prevent him from his presidency. Even if it's after the fact.
In addition to riots and protests, I've overheard people saying things like "someone is probably going to assassinate him". This was even months and months ago. Before the primaries were even done.
I kind of feel like the US is on the verge of full-fledged anarchy. Riots and all. I'm just glad I remembered that the election was yesterday, instead of going in to the city. I'd probably still be stuck there.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2016, 03:51:23 AM
In addition to riots and protests, I've overheard people saying things like "someone is probably going to assassinate him". This was even months and months ago. Before the primaries were even done.
I definitely agree with you on that. It's stupid and damaging. :/
QuoteI kind of feel like the US is on the verge of full-fledged anarchy. Riots and all. I'm just glad I remembered that the election was yesterday, instead of going in to the city. I'd probably still be stuck there.
No, I don't believe it is that bad. I actually think things will calm down after people got used to Trump seeing on media as President Trump and things will calm down. So don't worry.
However, if people do not give any reaction when necessary that it is even worse. Don't forget that. Full fledge 'anarchy' is an imaginary concept in 21st century America , Pickel. I think you mean massive social explosion. Yes there could be massive protests all around the country, people could even die, but considering the size of the country I pretty much doubt that anything chaotic would happen.
Besides, if things really get in to the worst irreversable state, you should all go out to protect your country, your future. Especially YOU, young people. I know this sound surreal to you. But it is not.
Do you remember the massive protests that happened in my country in 2013? That was a natural social explosion. Nobody called anyone out. So if something like that would happen, it will happen by itself.
If someone did assassinate him, then America is at the mercy of Mike Pence, a person who's trans phobic, anti gay, probably racist, and denies evolution
The youth of this country voted well. They did not vote Trump. A very large and overwhelming majority of people in their 20s and 30s did not vote Trump. It was the older generation that did this.
Anarchy is only an imaginary concept because we've never been so frightened by our own government before... At least since the 18th century when we stole our country from Britain. And not since the 19th century when the South tried to secede. Imagination may in fact become reality again. It never was imaginary anyway. It was just dormant
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Quote from: Munch on November 10, 2016, 04:23:34 AM
If someone did assassinate him, then America is at the mercy of Mike Pence, a person who's trans phobic, anti gay, probably racist, and denies evolution
That is Trump's life insurance card, silly ;-)
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2016, 03:08:32 AM
I do, in part, agree with widdershins, but the other part of me is thinking "there will be an overthrow of the government" and also that that might be a good thing.
That is, after all, what Trump instigated and suggested. That all the politicians are corrupt and we need to get them out. Even if he was lying to get votes, he probably didn't expect for this to happen from people opposing him
You are a left-handed red-neck ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2016, 04:39:28 AM
You are a left-handed red-neck ;-)
I'm right handed and I live by NYC. In no where near being a redneck
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Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2016, 03:08:32 AM
I do, in part, agree with widdershins, but the other part of me is thinking "there will be an overthrow of the government" and also that that might be a good thing.
That is, after all, what Trump instigated and suggested. That all the politicians are corrupt and we need to get them out. Even if he was lying to get votes, he probably didn't expect for this to happen from people opposing him
Occupy was such a damn success. The authorities were inches from committing a Kiev (false flag shooting) on the protestors. Y'all have forgotten Kent State. Riots help the Establishment ... show that the peons need a good beating.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2016, 04:27:13 AM
The youth of this country voted well. They did not vote Trump. A very large and overwhelming majority of people in their 20s and 30s did not vote Trump. It was the older generation that did this.
Anarchy is only an imaginary concept because we've never been so frightened by our own government before... At least since the 18th century when we stole our country from Britain. And not since the 19th century when the South tried to secede. Imagination may in fact become reality again. It never was imaginary anyway. It was just dormant
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Originally it was the pro-British (in 1812) and self righteous (abolitionist) New England that wanted to secede first, long before S Carolina. The South wanted nullification (state law negating federal law), but the Feds, even Andrew Jackson, wouldn't allow that. Now it is pot drunk California who is calling for secession. The Feds will walk in and put the cuffs on all the stoners if necessary, and hand the keys to the Mexicans.
Quote from: PickelledEggs on November 10, 2016, 04:27:13 AM
The youth of this country voted well. They did not vote Trump. A very large and overwhelming majority of people in their 20s and 30s did not vote Trump. It was the older generation that did this.
Yes. I am personally proud of you all. The youth was a clean, bright blue compared to the bloody pus. It means things actually changed in the US contrary to the common belief.
QuoteAnarchy is only an imaginary concept because we've never been so frightened by our own government before... At least since the 18th century when we stole our country from Britain. And not since the 19th century when the South tried to secede. Imagination may in fact become reality again. It never was imaginary anyway. It was just dormant
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I just told that to Nonsensei yesterday. "You are not used to live in this kind of fear." This is the world I live in, I am sorry you have joined in, but it is the real one. :sad2:
Yes, I agree. I sometimes think understanding America is digging things back to civil war terms. Like distasteful crash course. Sigh.
But nothing of the sort will happen today, Steve. I'd like to say a lot of things to you on this, but it is not the time. Don't be afraid. Cheer up. Mwah. *Hugs.
PS I'll visit the US in a few months if nothing goes wrong. Around when he is official. I'd die if I don't say 'Hi' to him. :PPP
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2016, 04:37:47 AM
That is Trump's life insurance card, silly ;-)
*shivers* dam, I should have expected such evil corporation head tactics, it's like robocops Dick Jones.
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2016, 04:42:51 AM
Riots help the Establishment ... show that the peons need a good beating.
Do not agree. Depends on the timing and the scale of the riot. When
the real one comes, don't sit inside. Go out help the young people rioting. Carry water and food, take care of their wounds. Talk to them. Stop being chynical and listen to them. You'll be very surprised and grateful. You will learn so much of different things than any books can give.
There is nothing more powerful than a good, natural massive riot to unite a people of a country when it is called for, doesn't matter how much they disagree with each other. Nothing can stand in front of that. I'd feel pity for any power. Otherwise that fear and uncertainity would rot everyone inside. Leave nothing. Literally nothing to live for. No life, no spirit. You can't survive. Society can't survive these backward periods without them.
We are social, violent animals capable to do anything possible to take care of our own; we are primates. There is a time to drop the delusion that is called civilisation to help push it in some way.
Happened in the 60s ... we are all Marxists now, right? But yes, I know one young person, my daughter. If she is an example, she does show that there are changes in the young people, but below the horizon of polling. They are giving up some of the neurotic hangups of their predecessors ... and that is a good thing. I have no existential fear for the next generation. It will be rough, it usually is ... but they are good people ... and they will mature over time.
It was Jefferson's idea, that every election year should be a storming of the Bastille .. but he was wrong. The point of the US Constitution is stability, not a permanent state of Leftist revolution. Revolutions are eventually coopted by the Establishment anyway.
Something that hasn't been mentioned and could potentially happen is if Trump goes completely off the rails and the congress decides to rubber stamp it all, especially all his bluster about knowing more than all of the generals we could see a military coup. I'm not predicting such a thing happening, but if they put us in too much peril it could be the last check against Russian aggression.. Scary times indeed. If any one group has the literal power to overthrow the government it would be the military and the CIA. They've not shown the propensity to do it much in the past, but Trump didn't exactly endear himself to the military.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 09, 2016, 04:43:32 PM
You cannot blame anyone for getting angry, going out and making a protest; even for getting violent. Protest is a democractic right too. Social explosions are far more democractic than a rich, racist white president.
Calling these people 'scared whiny bitches' is pretty much Trump politics and you are whinning about people's reactions to a catastrophie. What did you think was going to happen?
But then is your life going to get an impact with Trump reign? I pretty much doubt it. You are a white man living in the middle of nowhere.
You can ALWAYS blame people for getting violent. Protest is democratic, yes. Pretending democracy doesn't apply when you lose is not. That's what the other guys do every time they lose. I hated it then, I have no choice but to hate it now if I want to be a fair, rational person about it.
If you don't think violence is democratic you haven't been paying attention. If majority people want to kick your ass that's pretty democratic. It's mob violence often, but democracy. Democracy is often ugly and violent.
If you google 'protests' about the election you get more mainstream coverage, but replace protest with riots you get almost strictly right wing news..
To widdershins and everyone who looks with the same apathy and despise to the protests and riots.
Sure you can blame people for violence, but that never means you are actually pointing out a good reason or making a rational explanation or even it is the correct way to go according to the given circumstances contrary to your belief. There is a huge difference between wanting to blame people because you hate what is happening; because you think they are bad at losing AND why those people are actually rioting. This is not a fucking football game. This is your country. And that country has a huge inlfuence on the planet.
But what is so important at this point is that you and most of the Americans STILL HAVE NO IDEA what has just happened as far as I can see. This is not some ordinary election that was lost to republicans, it is not even about that orangutan. The new America, the religious facist America will come with sweet tongues of proganada and democracy to destroy everything that was accomplished more or less, good or bad.
You know why? Because when Obama came to power, Republicans in the USA 'dropped' class badly for the first time in your country's history. The question of did they really is not important. The point is all the nationalist and religious, fascist groups in every culture have the basic common trait of seeing themselves as the city hall; the state and the moment they have become the marginalised, the moment the social change gives it fruit they strike back viciously, in the most organised and brutal way and then one day you wake up and look and cannot recognise the place you live in.
Those people are not rioting because they have LOST some race. They are young people who are aware the possible consequences and results of what is lost, because all that progressive 'shit' people love to look down ACTUALLY WORKED. Because they have lived in that America the last 8 years, they have become adults in that America. They are alive.
And American youth kicked ass compared to their old, racist, ignorant fellow Americans who is holding on to the an ancient obslete social system. They will continue to that by protests and riots I hope, they will not sit on their ass throwing cycnical hatred around in front of the computer and calling social reaction and explosion against a catastrophie 'stupid'.
What is so alien to me this obviously American trend of looking at protests and riots as abhorrent senseless actions of violence. This is bullshit and more royalist than the king. People of the world would laugh at you EXTRA for this even in the ME; in all those ocuntries American cultures loves to look far down. If over a million people can go out in Anatolia by themselves to protest a govenment, you can too.
YOU HAVE TO LEARN to get out and protest and riot if it's necessary in this or that way, doesn't matter if you want or not. There is NO other way. Or you are going to wake up in an America that has lost the only few redeeming values of its existence we can actually defend.
Wake up. This is not the time to watch your country through comedy shows and football games from seperate teams AND wait for somebody to market you some saviour with high profit opinions.
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2016, 07:32:01 AM
Happened in the 60s ... we are all Marxists now, right? But yes, I know one young person, my daughter. If she is an example, she does show that there are changes in the young people, but below the horizon of polling. They are giving up some of the neurotic hangups of their predecessors ... and that is a good thing. I have no existential fear for the next generation. It will be rough, it usually is ... but they are good people ... and they will mature over time.
It was Jefferson's idea, that every election year should be a storming of the Bastille .. but he was wrong. The point of the US Constitution is stability, not a permanent state of Leftist revolution. Revolutions are eventually coopted by the Establishment anyway.
They'll do much better than all of you.
Is that concept of becoming 'mature' some sort of a euphemism for dying inside and find delight in cyncially hating your own culture, dear?
Quote from: Munch on November 10, 2016, 04:23:34 AM
If someone did assassinate him, then America is at the mercy of Mike Pence, a person who's trans phobic, anti gay, probably racist, and denies evolution
Yeah. I said that already... It's very scary
The only thing most progressive americans have to look forward to now, is what trump and his devil on the shoulder vice will NOT do. Thats depressing, when you know what they will try to do, and you only have hope they either won't do it, or get stopped by a higher sent of rules.
Presidents or prime ministers do not make decisions or policies according to the devil on their shoulder. They are bound by the previous policies, agreements made before them and also have to consider many other conditions; circumstances to maintain their reign, to do business; to make politics. They need to preserve the order and use it for the state's and gov's benefit.
Trump will first try to make his voters happy at first sight which does not necessarily translate to real change and then will work to guarantee his second term.
Whatever will happen will happen when he gains real power and recognition. It's about the perception management he can build.
Sitting in that chair is not easy as throwing provocative remarks out of your ass from a stand to a group of people already there to support you.
Ok the devil on the shoulder reference was how thats all I could think to reference to Mike Pence as, a crooked little demon spitting hate and bile as words for trump to listen to.
As for what power he has, any new president can reverse an executive order by the previous president, he can even reverse his/her own executive order down the line. That wouldn't extend to the supreme court ruling, however by planting new supreme members in said presidents favor, it can overturn rules its has made.
QuoteDecisions made by the U.S. Supreme Court can be overturned by either a constitutional amendment or by a future U.S. Supreme Court decision, according to HowStuffWorks. Supreme Court decisions can also be countered or circumvented by new legislation.
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/can-supreme-court-decisions-overturned-e5ed409fe40bd30d
http://money.howstuffworks.com/10-overturned-supreme-court-cases.htm
Quote from: Munch on November 10, 2016, 02:22:49 PM
Ok the devil on the shoulder reference was how thats all I could think to reference to Mike Pence as, a crooked little demon spitting hate and bile as words for trump to listen to.
As for what power he has, any new president can reverse an executive order by the previous president, he can even reverse his/her own executive order down the line. That wouldn't extend to the supreme court ruling, however by planting new supreme members in said presidents favor, it can overturn rules its has made.
https://www.reference.com/government-politics/can-supreme-court-decisions-overturned-e5ed409fe40bd30d
http://money.howstuffworks.com/10-overturned-supreme-court-cases.htm
Yes, I know he can. But are you aware that he kept making U turns about his 'opinions' on LGBTQ? He never said he is against it -wise- but states should decide it. Politics. there is no sicripture or some ready ideology there.
While he is a big threat to LGBTQ, Trump is slimy and fickle. I am sure he'll make the ground for people like Kim Davis, just his exiswtence and the rube win will crank up the hostility against LGBTQ, but reversing equality of marriage would take a lot of salt, that is not that easy. Because he needs to make sure he will not lose the dem votes and ose the image of the all Americans' president. He needs that. He is the one that needs it it most. Do you know any other president that got a raaction like this just in the day he was elected. He k nws this very well. He needs a good marketing.
Democrats who voted for Trump. I don't know if I am wrong, but it looks like a very big amount of democrats voted for Trump. From what I saw earlier millions of them. I am not sure how much of it is correct, I am waiting for it to calm down for a healthier result and outlook about that.
This makes a lot of difference. For the hundreth time this man is not stupid, neither religious. He won't try anything about this unless he is sure he won't lose. And well that is not as easy now.
Honestly at this point I'd sooner the devil you know, having a religious zealot in powef means you don't let your guard down, but with trump, he's like C Montgomery Burns, in it for the profit no matter who he crushes to achieve it, yet you just don't know his next move.
Yeah I agree with that you just don't know the move. But we know his motivations and that makes the room less darker.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2016, 12:45:35 PM
They'll do much better than all of you.
Is that concept of becoming 'mature' some sort of a euphemism for dying inside and find delight in cyncially hating your own culture, dear?
Tell me how you feel in 20 more years, toots ;-)
Being critical of my own culture ... I thought you liked it when it did that ;-)
Protests are harmless. Let people burn up some anger. They have classes or jobs to go to tomorrow.
Quote from: Baruch on November 10, 2016, 05:33:00 PM
Tell me how you feel in 20 more years, toots ;-)
Being critical of my own culture ... I thought you liked it when it did that ;-)
Baruch, you keep reading my posts wrong. :sad2: I said 'cynical', not 'critical'.
I am not sure if I can survive the next 20 years lol
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 02:49:55 AM
Baruch, you keep reading my posts wrong. :sad2: I said 'cynical', not 'critical'.
I am not sure if I can survive the next 20 years lol
Baruch thrives on misreading posts.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2016, 03:04:37 AM
Baruch thrives on misreading posts.
That is why she thinks I am the product of Deconstructionism ... actually I practice poetic license.
He understand things very well. He is just cynical, exhausted and old with no hope. Also a theist, yuck! :lol: I have a irrational bias in favour of untraditional Jewish people. Occupational hazard. Can't help it.
Speaking of who... has nayone seen pr126 around? Missed him. :sad2: I hope the old man still alive and healthy.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
He understand things very well. He is just cynical, exhausted and old with no hope. Also a theist, yuck! :lol: I have a irrational bias in favour of untraditional Jewish people. Occupational hazard. Can't help it.
Speaking of who... has nayone seen pr126 around? Missed him. :sad2: I hope the old man still alive and healthy.
Pr126 posted a couple weeks ago.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 08:57:09 AM
He understand things very well. He is just cynical, exhausted and old with no hope. Also a theist, yuck! :lol: I have a irrational bias in favour of untraditional Jewish people. Occupational hazard. Can't help it.
Speaking of who... has nayone seen pr126 around? Missed him. :sad2: I hope the old man still alive and healthy.
No theists are, by definition, entirely rational.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 11, 2016, 09:04:55 AM
No theists are, by definition, entirely rational.
Here at least, atheists are not entirely rational either. Rationalism is other-rated.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 09:26:39 AM
:rotflmao:
Excuse my malapropism ... but those are my best compositions ;-) I just realized that my typo reads better than the original thought, so I will leave it as is.
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2016, 10:00:02 AM
Excuse my malapropism ... but those are my best compositions ;-) I just realized that my typo reads better than the original thought, so I will leave it as is.
Sometimes the fingers think better than the mind... ;)
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2016, 10:00:02 AM
Excuse my malapropism ... but those are my best compositions ;-) I just realized that my typo reads better than the original thought, so I will leave it as is.
Oh gawd, you meant to write 'over-rated'! But that your typo was brilliant. Not you, mind. Your typo! :PP
:rrotflmao:
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 10, 2016, 12:41:14 PM
To widdershins and everyone who looks with the same apathy and despise to the protests and riots.
Sure you can blame people for violence, but that never means you are actually pointing out a good reason or making a rational explanation or even it is the correct way to go according to the given circumstances contrary to your belief. There is a huge difference between wanting to blame people because you hate what is happening; because you think they are bad at losing AND why those people are actually rioting. This is not a fucking football game. This is your country. And that country has a huge inlfuence on the planet.
But what is so important at this point is that you and most of the Americans STILL HAVE NO IDEA what has just happened as far as I can see. This is not some ordinary election that was lost to republicans, it is not even about that orangutan. The new America, the religious facist America will come with sweet tongues of proganada and democracy to destroy everything that was accomplished more or less, good or bad.
You know why? Because when Obama came to power, Republicans in the USA 'dropped' class badly for the first time in your country's history. The question of did they really is not important. The point is all the nationalist and religious, fascist groups in every culture have the basic common trait of seeing themselves as the city hall; the state and the moment they have become the marginalised, the moment the social change gives it fruit they strike back viciously, in the most organised and brutal way and then one day you wake up and look and cannot recognise the place you live in.
Those people are not rioting because they have LOST some race. They are young people who are aware the possible consequences and results of what is lost, because all that progressive 'shit' people love to look down ACTUALLY WORKED. Because they have lived in that America the last 8 years, they have become adults in that America. They are alive.
And American youth kicked ass compared to their old, racist, ignorant fellow Americans who is holding on to the an ancient obslete social system. They will continue to that by protests and riots I hope, they will not sit on their ass throwing cycnical hatred around in front of the computer and calling social reaction and explosion against a catastrophie 'stupid'.
What is so alien to me this obviously American trend of looking at protests and riots as abhorrent senseless actions of violence. This is bullshit and more royalist than the king. People of the world would laugh at you EXTRA for this even in the ME; in all those ocuntries American cultures loves to look far down. If over a million people can go out in Anatolia by themselves to protest a govenment, you can too.
YOU HAVE TO LEARN to get out and protest if it's necessary in this or that way, doesn't matter if you want or not. There is NO other way. Or you are going to wake up in an America that has lost the only few redeeming values of its existence we can actually defend.
Wake up. This is not the time to watch your country through comedy shows and football games from seperate teams AND wait for somebody to market you some saviour with high profit opinions.
YOU are the one who has no idea what just happened. We LOST AN ELECTION. That is ALL that has happened so far. Yes, we lost to a truly despicable man. But your argument is about what you THINK is going to happen, not anything he has actually done because he isn't even fucking in office yet. How about we let a man commit a crime before we start convicting him for it? A novel approach, I know.
ONCE Trump has actually done something, set forth some policy that is actually going to hurt people, THEN protest is valid. Until then it's just whining that you lost. And I'm sorry, but riots are NEVER okay. They serve no purpose. People get hurt, even killed, property gets damaged, the riot gets quashed, people get arrested and "bad guys" are named. Those "bad guys" are always rioters. You don't make your voice heard by rioting. You take advantage. When you riot it is not because HE is the problem because rioters BECOME the problem.
But until he has actually done something wrong (other than be a monumental jackass) I simply cannot and will not accept protests as valid. This is how the fucking system works. He won, it is our civic duty to accept that. Do you think Republicans didn't feel the EXACT same way when a black Democrat took the office? Hell, it broke their fucking party and actually created the current situation, they took it so badly! But they didn't riot. They DID say "Not MY president" and I condemned it then, why would I not condemn it now?
AFTER Trump has put some policy in place that will fuck people, THAT is the time to protest, PEACEFULLY AND LEGALLY! Before then you're just whining that you lost.
Quote from: widdershins on November 11, 2016, 10:50:24 AM
YOU are the one who has no idea what just happened. We LOST AN ELECTION. That is ALL that has happened so far. Yes, we lost to a truly despicable man. But your argument is about what you THINK is going to happen, not anything he has actually done because he isn't even fucking in office yet. How about we let a man commit a crime before we start convicting him for it? A novel approach, I know.
ONCE Trump has actually done something, set forth some policy that is actually going to hurt people, THEN protest is valid. Until then it's just whining that you lost. And I'm sorry, but riots are NEVER okay. They serve no purpose. People get hurt, even killed, property gets damaged, the riot gets quashed, people get arrested and "bad guys" are named. Those "bad guys" are always rioters. You don't make your voice heard by rioting. You take advantage. When you riot it is not because HE is the problem because rioters BECOME the problem.
But until he has actually done something wrong (other than be a monumental jackass) I simply cannot and will not accept protests as valid. This is how the fucking system works. He won, it is our civic duty to accept that. Do you think Republicans didn't feel the EXACT same way when a black Democrat took the office? Hell, it broke their fucking party and actually created the current situation, they took it so badly! But they didn't riot. They DID say "Not MY president" and I condemned it then, why would I not condemn it now?
AFTER Trump has put some policy in place that will fuck people, THAT is the time to protest, PEACEFULLY AND LEGALLY! Before then you're just whining that you lost.
And this is what I am saying. "When it is necessary." "When it is called for." Not just here, all over the forum.
Having said that, sorry, but nobody can blame those young people for reacting and protesting. Esp. a recluse living out of nowhere. You had a military past, don't you? It's not up to you or your will. Stomp yout feet down all you want.
'Protesting peacefully and legally' LOL. I hope you don't get legally and peacefully shot during your peaceful and legal protest.
:arrow: There is no such thing as a 'legal protest'. Civil disobedience does not require legality. That's all its point.
:arrow: A peaceful protest is a result, NOT a plan. Protests depend on momentary changes, triggers, actions-reactions. You can have very peaceful good intentions, EVERYBODY in a rally can have very peaceful good intentions,
it takes one jackass to cause mayhem and death. YOU CANNOT CONTROL PEOPLE. PERIOD.
Oh gawd this will be an 'interesting' era. And NO, you still have no idea what just happened.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 11:28:10 AM
And this is what I am saying. "When it is necessary." "When it is called for." Not just here, all over the forum.
Having said that, sorry, but nobody can blame those young people for reacting and protesting. Esp. a recluse living out of nowhere. You had a military past, don't you? It's not up to you or your will. Stomp yout feet down all you want.
'Protesting peacefully and legally' LOL. I hope you don't get legally and peacefully shot during your peaceful and legal protest.
:arrow: There is no such thing as a 'legal protest'. Civil disobedience does not require legality. That's all its point.
:arrow: A peaceful protest is a result, NOT a plan. Protests depend on momentary changes, triggers, actions-reactions. You can have very peaceful good intentions, EVERYBODY in a rally can have very peaceful good intentions, it takes one jackass to cause mayhem and death.
YOU CANNOT CONTROL PEOPLE. PERIOD.
Oh gawd this will be an 'interesting' era. And NO, you still have no idea what just happened.
Don't get me wrong. There definitely is a time for taking up arms. But that time isn't "Shit! My candidate lost and I'm PISSED OFF!" Paint it how you want, that's what's happening. Trump has done nothing so far to warrant armed revolt. I'm not saying he won't and, in fact, he might. But I doubt it. I really don't think he's a stupid man.
There very much is such a thing as "legal protest". It's part of our Constitution, in fact. But the word "peaceably" is in there.
And I'm not saying anything is up to me or my will. All I am saying is that if I accept it now and don't speak out against it I have to accept it in the future the next time we elect a Democrat outside the "norm" for presidency, whether it be a black man, a Jewish woman or an atheist. And let's be realistic here, if this had been happening 8 years ago, which side would you have been on then? Would you then have been excusing riots? Would you then have been so very understanding where they are coming from? Or would you have been wailing and bitching about how racist they were? Don't forget, Republicans feel this way EVERY TIME they lose an election. They ALWAYS think it's the end of the world. In my life I do not remember a Democrat president that they didn't at least try to find a way to impeach, and now the sane side is doing it.
I'm not saying people don't have right or reason to be upset. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm sad to see the "sane side" being the ones to throw the fit this time, and take it much, much further than the nut jobs on the right ever did. IF Trump does nothing more than enact a normal right-wing agenda, the same as any other right winger would have, IF all these fears are unfounded (and let's not forget, Trump has been all over the place on policy, so we really don't have a clue what he will actually do) then this becomes the new norm. This is saying to the unstable masses on the right, the racists, the bigots and the hate mongers, "It's okay to be violent when you lose." Realistically I see this as bringing a darker future than Trump is likely to, and I don't see anything resembling a bright future with Trump at the helm.
The Democrats have always been the reasonable ones. Now there are no reasonable ones. That makes for a pretty bleak future, as I see it.
Thoreau, in Civil Disobedience, didn't trash things or try to escape punishment. He felt sorry for the dysfunctional state, as he felt sorry for the neighbors who were mindlessly embracing industrialization.
To others ... so where were you protesting when Obama was doing awful things? Admit it, you are a DDDDDDDD. I assume you may have protested when George W was in office ... but you did it because he was an RRRRRR, not because he was evil. You like evil, as long as a DDDDD does it.
Quote from: widdershins on November 11, 2016, 12:18:03 PM
Don't get me wrong. There definitely is a time for taking up arms. But that time isn't "Shit! My candidate lost and I'm PISSED OFF!" Paint it how you want, that's what's happening. Trump has done nothing so far to warrant armed revolt. I'm not saying he won't and, in fact, he might. But I doubt it. I really don't think he's a stupid man.
No, it isn't, widdershins. They have a right to react and it will calm down. And yes he is not a stupid man. He used the chepeast, racist most hostile identity politics for his campaign to wim and he did. Those peole are not just young they are also from every group he verbally abused.
QuoteThere very much is such a thing as "legal protest". It's part of our Constitution, in fact. But the word "peaceably" is in there.
Lol, I am aware there is something on paper. We have the same thing. The word you are looking for is 'civil disobedience' then.
QuoteAnd I'm not saying anything is up to me or my will. All I am saying is that if I accept it now and don't speak out against it I have to accept it in the future the next time we elect a Democrat outside the "norm" for presidency, whether it be a black man, a Jewish woman or an atheist. And let's be realistic here, if this had been happening 8 years ago, which side would you have been on then? Would you then have been excusing riots?
This is an invalid anaology. Nowhere near the same thing, not even remotely close. Obama did not win his elections by racist-hate mogering politics, abusing groups of people in America.
Trump owes his success to that racist, sexist, hate mongering disgusting campaign that is deliberately designed to provoke everyone around him and playing to the racist white through migrants and identity politics.
He doesn't even have any other plan for the issues of the country. He has spent his time by vomiting poison.
QuoteWould you then have been so very understanding where they are coming from? Or would you have been wailing and bitching about how racist they were? Don't forget, Republicans feel this way EVERY TIME they lose an election. They ALWAYS think it's the end of the world. In my life I do not remember a Democrat president that they didn't at least try to find a way to impeach, and now the sane side is doing it.
This is an invalid anology, wrong example. Nobody treated rubes like Trump treated Americans during his campaign.
If Obama or any other candidate did a similar thing I WOULDN'T BE suppıorting him in the first place AND yes I would be saying the same things for them.
QuoteI'm not saying people don't have right or reason to be upset. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm sad to see the "sane side" being the ones to throw the fit this time, and take it much, much further than the nut jobs on the right ever did. IF Trump does nothing more than enact a normal right-wing agenda, the same as any other right winger would have, IF all these fears are unfounded (and let's not forget, Trump has been all over the place on policy, so we really don't have a clue what he will actually do) then this becomes the new norm. This is saying to the unstable masses on the right, the racists, the bigots and the hate mongers, "It's okay to be violent when you lose." Realistically I see this as bringing a darker future than Trump is likely to, and I don't see anything resembling a bright future with Trump at the helm.
The Democrats have always been the reasonable ones. Now there are no reasonable ones. That makes for a pretty bleak future, as I see it.
I understand what you are saying and agree with you in principle. However this is an ideal. And you are missing something when blaming young dems for this. And that is why I keep saying, you don't get what has just happened. You have described an America that has died with Obama 3 days ago.
:arrow: If another republican candidate had won these elections without the toxic, posionous Trump campaign,
this wouldn't have happened. People would really say, 'OK we lost this time'. But this is what hate mongering, racist politics make. Trump made it sure of this. This was his aim, his politics and how he suceeded. He didn't have any other ammunition. These people are not just acting out because their side lost. Action-reaction. Cause and effect.
And rubes now will attack people everywhere left and right. They have already started. Expecting people sit down on their ass, esp. young people, lgbtq and nonwhite minority is naive when their daily life is under direct impact.
But if someone's life is NOT affected directly, sure they have a space, attitude and means to argue that how baaad these reactions and protests are. It's a fucking movie to watch.
So what happens now? We arrive to the same point where Trump supporters stand at the 'end' of the circle. In short, let the sleeping dogs lie.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
This is an invalid anaology. Nowhere near the same thing, not even remotely close. Obama did not win his elections by racist-hate mogering politics, abusing groups of people in America.
They didn't see it any differently. I'm not claiming their position is rational and yours is not. Quite the opposite, in fact. The right wing fear is quite irrational and yours is very rational. But
they don't see it that way. We're talking about a group of people who, let's face it, aren't the best and the brightest America has to offer. If it's no different
to them then any future behavior similar to this is justified
to them.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
Trump owes his success to that racist, sexist, hate mongering disgusting campaign that is deliberately designed to provoke everyone around him and playing to the racist white through migrants and identity politics.
He doesn't even have any other plan for the issues of the country. He has spent his time by vomiting poison.
I don't disagree with that. It is not my position that Trump is just like any other politician. His win in this election is very scary. His election into office is a whole new level of stupid that I wouldn't have thought possible a year ago. I knew there were a lot of dumb, racist people in America, but I had no idea there were so many.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
This is an invalid anology, wrong example. Nobody treated rubes like Trump treated Americans during his campaign.
If Obama or any other candidate did a similar thing I WOULDN'T BE suppıorting him in the first place AND yes I would be saying the same things for them.
Now THIS is an invalid analogy. I'm not talking about "the candidates", I'm talking about "the protesters". Of course you wouldn't have stood by Obama if he were anything like Trump. I wasn't talking about "if Obama were like Trump". I was talking about "if there were this kind of reaction when Obama was elected". EVERYBODY has their reasons for not liking this candidate or that and ALL of those reasons are valid, at least to the person with the reason.
I think our only real difference here is that I am trying to see both sides and realize that to Republicans an Obama administration was just as scary as a Trump administration is to...let's just say it, normal fucking people. You, on the other hand, are only looking at your own fears, legitimate as they may be, and saying, "My fears are legitimate, theirs are not." While that may be the case it's only so to you and those who think like you.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
I understand what you are saying and agree with you in principle. However this is an ideal. And you are missing something when blaming young dems for this. And that is why I keep saying, you don't get what has just happened. You have described an America that has died with Obama 3 days ago.
I couldn't even predict the outcome of an election that was supposed to be a "sure thing", so I'm going to hold off on predicting what kind of shit America is going to be in until I see what the man actually does. Until then, it's just speculation. Informed speculation, maybe, but Trump has been so unpredictable that there can be no real certainty.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
:arrow: If another republican candidate had won these elections without the toxic, posionous Trump campaign, this wouldn't have happened. People would really say, 'OK we lost this time'. But this is what hate mongering, racist politics make. Trump made it sure of this. This was his aim, his politics and how he suceeded. He didn't have any other ammunition. These people are not just acting out because their side lost. Action-reaction. Cause and effect.
I understand that, but again, there are two sides. What if Hillary had won and it was Republicans freaking out? As far as they're concerned she eats the souls of babies to sustain herself. They could use the exact same argument to excuse their abhorrent behavior and it would be just as valid
to them as it is to you with Trump as the winner.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
And rubes now will attack people everywhere left and right. They have already started. Expecting people sit down on their ass, esp. young people, lgbtq and nonwhite minority is naive when their daily life is under direct impact.
So what, exactly, are they doing? They're throwing a fit. They're not fighting against his policies because he doesn't have any yet. They're throwing a pointless fit that will ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. He still got the votes. He's still the president elect. He's still taking office January 20th and no amount of bitching and whining and protesting and rioting will change that. They are protesting about nothing. They are accomplishing nothing. It is only after he actually does something that they can even hope to accomplish something.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 11, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
But if someone's life is NOT affected directly, sure they have a space, attitude and means to argue that how baaad these reactions and protests are. It's a fucking movie to watch.
So what happens now? We arrive to the same point where Trump supporters stand at the 'end' of the circle. In short, let the sleeping dogs lie.
Really? You think I don't have a stake in this? You think we don't ALL have a stake in this? I have a bisexual daughter who I very much want to grow up being who she is, not feeling like she has to hide her sexuality, not being shamed for it. I'm middle class. Do you think I don't know where the shots are going to be fired? But what can I do about it RIGHT NOW? Nothing. Because no shots have
actually been fired yet. If I want democracy then I have to accept the democratic process, even when I don't agree with it, even when it scares me.
I understand that this guy is different. I understand that this guy is dangerous. I understand that this racist, selfish prick has emboldened racists everywhere. I understand that this is bad and, believe me, if there were a legal, valid reason to keep him from office that would not threaten our democracy, I would be all the fuck over it. But there isn't. I can't do anything, I can't target anything, I can't fix anything that hasn't actually happened yet.
Our system isn't perfect, but just like the fact that you have to wait for a man to kill someone before you can arrest him for murder, you have to wait for Trump to do something before you can do something about it. Until then you're just wasting time and effort or, worse, making negative progress and giving the other side ammunition to use against you later, over and over and over again.
Donald Trump has historically had a liberal leaning in past interviews. This wouldn't be the first time a politician's campaign was drastically different from their real beliefs, so let's see what the man does before we convict him.
Equal opportunity butt-stabber.
The election isn't over until the electors cast their votes. Things could still get interesting.
Can't impeach without him a) being sworn in and b) him committing a high crime or misdemeanor. Alas, being an epic cunt is not actually an impeachable offense.
That said, I won't be surprised if/when he does something impeachable -- and when the GOP House and Senate majorities turn a blind eye. Because IOKIYAR.
I think trump saw a path....a broad path bathed in massive distrust that has been boiling for decades and finally was ready to blow. He played a Teddy Roosevelt albeit off the wall and extreme and the majority of white mainstream(uneducated) bought into it. I do not believe a person who has been as involved in massive business deals for 5 decades is nearly as racist or narrow as he has painted himself to be. His run was to play on the fear and distrust of the mainstream and I truly believe he was just as shocked when he won as HC was when losing. There was a catch to his voice on his "acceptance' speech that I think shows he just realized that the american people have given him the highest job in the world and maybe...just maybe,,be rather humbled by it. He is already showing signs of backing off of his rhetoric which will upset his followers and perhaps open a window for a bullet but it is possible he is actually a liberal in disguise...the ultimate con job.
Quote from: aitm on November 11, 2016, 08:12:58 PM
I think trump saw a path....a broad path bathed in massive distrust that has been boiling for decades and finally was ready to blow. He played a Teddy Roosevelt albeit off the wall and extreme and the majority of white mainstream(uneducated) bought into it. I do not believe a person who has been as involved in massive business deals for 5 decades is nearly as racist or narrow as he has painted himself to be. His run was to play on the fear and distrust of the mainstream and I truly believe he was just as shocked when he won as HC was when losing. There was a catch to his voice on his "acceptance' speech that I think shows he just realized that the american people have given him the highest job in the world and maybe...just maybe,,be rather humbled by it. He is already showing signs of backing off of his rhetoric which will upset his followers and perhaps open a window for a bullet but it is possible he is actually a liberal in disguise...the ultimate con job.
Well, aitm, I respect your views (most of the time) and I hope you are right with this assessment/guess. I really, really do. But I still have a very bad feeling about the next 4 yrs.
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on November 11, 2016, 04:27:22 PM
Donald Trump has historically had a liberal leaning in past interviews. This wouldn't be the first time a politician's campaign was drastically different from their real beliefs, so let's see what the man does before we convict him.
Equal opportunity butt-stabber.
Really? Don't you see that is the most dangerous trait he has?
Quote from: widdershins on November 11, 2016, 02:58:20 PM
Really? You think I don't have a stake in this? You think we don't ALL have a stake in this? I have a bisexual daughter who I very much want to grow up being who she is, not feeling like she has to hide her sexuality, not being shamed for it. I'm middle class. Do you think I don't know where the shots are going to be fired? But what can I do about it RIGHT NOW? Nothing. Because no shots have actually been fired yet. If I want democracy then I have to accept the democratic process, even when I don't agree with it, even when it scares me.
I wasn't thinking about you. I think your position is different because you do not live in the city -correct me if I am mistaken- where people rub against each other every day. I am a recluse too and I get that I am not in the same place with the most people where I live.
We actually do agree generally, but evaluate the initial reactions differently. You want a gentlemen's response to losing and I am saying Trump himself made it sure it wouldn't happen.
I agree with aitm in pirnciple. SGOS wrote the same thing. Hijiri has a point too.
But I think that is the most dangerous trait he has. Because it means someone who did anything as low as possible to win doesn't matter how it conflicts with himself, will do anything to stay in power. And only for power. How is going to serve? He will say one thing and do another thing. Do one thing and say another thing. You won't see it coming.
Now, think about all this in post -Obama period, how much bitterness, desire of revenge rubes are feeling, also about the world political climate.
This is why I reject democracy ... with ape people, we can't ever have nice things ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on November 12, 2016, 05:54:30 AM
This is why I reject democracy ... with ape people, we can't ever have nice things ;-(
You can reject democracy all you want--it does not pertain to the US and never did. The USA has always been a sort of republic. The founders feared a democracy, hence the electoral collage. Unless, of course, you are protesting the New England style town hall meetings.
Quote from: Mike Cl on November 12, 2016, 12:05:20 PM
You can reject democracy all you want--it does not pertain to the US and never did. The USA has always been a sort of republic. The founders feared a democracy, hence the electoral collage. Unless, of course, you are protesting the New England style town hall meetings.
We aren't a republic either ... the early Romans may have been Mafia ... but at least they had standards ... "dignitas" and "gravitas" and "virtus". America has none of that. That is what happens when every free person is made a Roman citizen (212 CE).
I will wait to see what Trump actually DOES! Plenty of time to hate him more after that.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 13, 2016, 03:31:07 AM
I will wait to see what Trump actually DOES! Plenty of time to hate him more after that.
With his current rumored transition team and cabinet picks, it won't be long in coming. Maybe then the liberal side of the non-voting public will realize that their non-vote mattered.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 13, 2016, 03:31:07 AM
I will wait to see what Trump actually DOES! Plenty of time to hate him more after that.
After the Eight of Hate I see no reason not to get started right away.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 13, 2016, 01:55:11 PM
After the Eight of Hate I see no reason not to get started right away.
Very Republican of you ;-)
Protesters for the most part in this country tend to be pretty mild. A few people might break windows, even burn a few things, but few are willing to put their lives on the line. For now the protests are pretty harmless and accomplishing little, but if and a big if Trump goes completely off the rails that might all change especially if people are forced to face a scenario where they have absolutely nothing left to lose. Right now they still have plenty to lose. It's the breaking point between having something to lose and nothing to lose where the rubber meets the road.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on November 12, 2016, 05:40:47 AM
I wasn't thinking about you. I think your position is different because you do not live in the city -correct me if I am mistaken- where people rub against each other every day. I am a recluse too and I get that I am not in the same place with the most people where I live.
We actually do agree generally, but evaluate the initial reactions differently. You want a gentlemen's response to losing and I am saying Trump himself made it sure it wouldn't happen.
That's mostly correct, I think (the part about what I "want"). Essentially what I am saying is that I did not accept this behavior from the right when Obama was first elected, it would be hypocritical for me to accept it now that it's the left doing it.
But it's interesting to note, he's already backing off much of what he said. In a recent interview he said that gay marriage was "settled law", in stark contrast to his campaign propaganda of appointing a judge to run it back. He also said that transgender people should use the restroom they feel most comfortable with. This is not only in contrast with the platform he ran with, it's in contrast with the general Republican party. There is a very real possibility that we may actually like him more than Republicans do as president.
There was a2nd is a bit of a moral difference between disliking and protesting Trump because he ran a campaign of hate, and disliking and protesting Obamal because, in the most painfully blunt way, he is a Muslim Liberal nigger.
One of the two is at least slightly justifiable.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 14, 2016, 04:11:25 PM
There was a2nd is a bit of a moral difference between disliking and protesting Trump because he ran a campaign of hate, and disliking and protesting Obamal because, in the most painfully blunt way, he is a Muslim Liberal nigger.
One of the two is at least slightly justifiable.
There is quite a difference there. Protesting his campaign is totally justifiable, as is protesting his message of bigotry and his objectification of women. There are definitely very, very valid reasons to be protesting. My only objection is calls to impeach a president before he's actually done something wrong (or taken office) and people saying, "Not MY president!" That is whining about the outcome of an election, not protesting a truly terrible human being.
I agree with you on impeachment, but not my president predominately refers to his representation of us rather than political position over us.
I think the current protests are just the warm up round. Depending on what actually happens once sworn in could take a very nasty turn and a lot will depend on whether people are willing to put their lives on the line and the reaction of police and even possibly the military.
Groups are already raising money for planned protests and I have to wonder how many grifters are along for the ride. I've received several emails begging for money. Good luck getting blood from this stone.
Quote from: widdershins on November 14, 2016, 05:17:25 PM
There is quite a difference there. Protesting his campaign is totally justifiable, as is protesting his message of bigotry and his objectification of women. There are definitely very, very valid reasons to be protesting. My only objection is calls to impeach a president before he's actually done something wrong (or taken office) and people saying, "Not MY president!" That is whining about the outcome of an election, not protesting a truly terrible human being.
The reactions are quite predictable given the choice he made during the campaign and the threats, I mean promises, that were part and parcel of his ego trip.
I'd like to ask him if he would hire himself for the position he's going to occupy.
You know..the "hard right" gave rise to the Trumps of the Republican party which makes me wonder if the Democratic party is ripe for a hostile takeover by hard line socialists or even communists as well.. With the right (or wrong) messaging it isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's not an impossibility that Communist China would sink their teeth into US politics the same way the Russians are thought to have..
Just a thought.. Scary times..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 14, 2016, 07:29:36 PM
You know..the "hard right" gave rise to the Trumps of the Republican party which makes me wonder if the Democratic party is ripe for a hostile takeover by hard line socialists or even communists as well.. With the right (or wrong) messaging it isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's not an impossibility that Communist China would sink their teeth into US politics the same way the Russians are thought to have..
Just a thought.. Scary times..
One point of congruence doesn't make a synchrony.
It's one that I think has some grounds though, with the current dissatisfaction with the government on the left and the right. It's not set in stone, but I think we are definitely on a very perilous path.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 14, 2016, 07:29:36 PM
You know..the "hard right" gave rise to the Trumps of the Republican party which makes me wonder if the Democratic party is ripe for a hostile takeover by hard line socialists or even communists as well.. With the right (or wrong) messaging it isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's not an impossibility that Communist China would sink their teeth into US politics the same way the Russians are thought to have..
Just a thought.. Scary times..
Yes, like the British Empire and French Empire played the US fiddle in the first half of the 20th century
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 14, 2016, 07:29:36 PM
You know..the "hard right" gave rise to the Trumps of the Republican party which makes me wonder if the Democratic party is ripe for a hostile takeover by hard line socialists or even communists as well.. With the right (or wrong) messaging it isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's not an impossibility that Communist China would sink their teeth into US politics the same way the Russians are thought to have..
Just a thought.. Scary times..
The biggest problem the Democratic Party has right now is that they keep running to the Right and rolling over for the Right. Once Obama's out of office, Bernie will be just about the only Democrat in power actually pushing for a liberal agenda.
I am tired of the Democrats being "Republican Lite". We need to become Democrats again.
Think about it..Brietbart (Steve Brannon) will now, according to trump have equal footing within the white house as his chief of staff. Yessiree..Trump is draining the swamp and filling it completely with shit.
Quote from: Atheon on November 15, 2016, 02:46:28 AM
I am tired of the Democrats being "Republican Lite". We need to become Democrats again.
That's not making an equation any longer as the republican party is no longer the republican party, it's much closer now to the Nazi party.. The republicans of just 40 years ago would not recognize them.
The internet is such a teacup.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 15, 2016, 08:01:43 AM
The internet is such a teacup.
I am almost to the point where I'd welcome the complete end of the internet. I see fewer and fewer benefits to its very existence anymore and before anyone tries to tell me we couldn't get by without it we certainly did for the vast majority of human history.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 15, 2016, 08:08:21 AM
I am almost to the point where I'd welcome the complete end of the internet. I see fewer and fewer benefits to its very existence anymore and before anyone tries to tell me we couldn't get by without it we certainly did for the vast majority of human history.
I love the internet! Social media on the other hand... I deleted my Twitter account over the summer and I'm teetering on the edge of dropping out of Facebook, LinkedIn and the online forums. I feel compelled to either lean in and speak my mind or opt out. I don't think either choice makes a difference in the scheme of things, I just need to determine which strategy will make me happier.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 15, 2016, 08:08:21 AM
I am almost to the point where I'd welcome the complete end of the internet. I see fewer and fewer benefits to its very existence anymore and before anyone tries to tell me we couldn't get by without it we certainly did for the vast majority of human history.
Get out of the abattoir and see the rest of the Internet.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 14, 2016, 06:04:36 PM
I agree with you on impeachment, but not my president predominately refers to his representation of us rather than political position over us.
You're only fooling yourself with that claim. If that were true the saying would be, "Not a human being" or "Nasty man" or something along those lines but witty. "Not MY president" says "I do not accept the election results because I do not like them". It says, "Well, that election SUCKED. Excuse me while I throw a tantrum". It is immature and it erodes confidence in our election process.
I did not accept the excuses from the right 8 years ago when they were the ones saying, "Not MY president" because, let's face it, we had just elected our first black president. THAT was their beef. He had a funny name (remember how they just LOVED to repeat his middle name over and over?), he wasn't even "off white" and he was a DEMOCRAT. Those were their issues. Their REAL issues. They made similar claims to what you just made, I'm sure. And Trump is a despicable man, but now he IS a despicable president and he is MY despicable president and, if you live in America, YOUR despicable president. There are plenty of reasons and ways to legitimately speak up against him. In my opinion a short statement which undermines the legitimacy of our election process, suggests that if we don't like the outcome we simply don't have to accept it as valid and binding and delegitimizes a duly elected president is not one of them.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 15, 2016, 08:08:21 AM
I am almost to the point where I'd welcome the complete end of the internet. I see fewer and fewer benefits to its very existence anymore and before anyone tries to tell me we couldn't get by without it we certainly did for the vast majority of human history.
The Pope said the same thing about the printing press. We don't want the peasants learning to read!
Quote from: GSOgymrat on November 15, 2016, 09:49:29 AM
I love the internet! Social media on the other hand... I deleted my Twitter account over the summer and I'm teetering on the edge of dropping out of Facebook, LinkedIn and the online forums. I feel compelled to either lean in and speak my mind or opt out. I don't think either choice makes a difference in the scheme of things, I just need to determine which strategy will make me happier.
Wait until Mr Meese gets all your metadata ... in the 80s, he thought Playboy was the Devil!
Well I'm finally pissed off at the Democratic messaging.. I should have been long ago, but let it slide.. Something Obama kept repeating over and over.. Don't get mad, vote.
What a load of passive aggressive bullshit.. If you voted for Clinton and are not mad as hell now you might as well join the republican party and grow an elephant trunk..
Don't get mad? Possibly the worse candidate of our lifetimes was running and we were told to not be angry?
Well I'm angry now and will be even more angry come next election and anyone who isn't should probably just go ahead and either leave the country or plant a bullet in their own head.. ENOUGH OF THE PASSIVE/AGGRESSIVE BULLSHIT!
The Dumbs might have a chance, if they will make the Clinton's finally retire. The Clintons have been F*ing the Democratic Party since 1992 ... just 24 years, a whole generation wasted. But if they latch onto Chelsea 2020 ... yes, flee to Canada.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 15, 2016, 01:01:33 PM
Well I'm finally pissed off at the Democratic messaging.. I should have been long ago, but let it slide.. Something Obama kept repeating over and over.. Don't get mad, vote.
What a load of passive aggressive bullshit.. If you voted for Clinton and are not mad as hell now you might as well join the republican party and grow an elephant trunk..
Don't get mad? Possibly the worse candidate of our lifetimes was running and we were told to not be angry?
Well I'm angry now and will be even more angry come next election and anyone who isn't should probably just go ahead and either leave the country or plant a bullet in their own head.. ENOUGH OF THE PASSIVE/AGGRESSIVE BULLSHIT!
I agree that it has been a long time coming for Democrats/liberals to wake the hell up and stop taking it on the chin. Republicans do something blatantly racist, Democrats say, "Hey! That's blatantly racist!" Republicans say, "How dare you call me racist!" Democrats say, "Excuse me. I misspoke..."
One side is loud, obnoxious and able to claim that shit is caviar because the liberals are too politically correct to outright call them liars when they lie.
However, I am not "angry" at the outcome of the election. Disappointed, yes. Worried, a little. Wishing it were over, you bet. But angry? At who? Myself? I voted. I didn't even go third party. I towed the line. At Trump? A piece of shit can't be anything but what it is. And really I don't think he's as bad as his rhetoric would lead us to believe, but we'll just have to wait and see on that one. Angry at liberals? Hillary won the popular vote. Liberals voted. Angry at morons for voting Trump? I'm the moron by their standards. Really there is nobody to be angry at. Some shit definitely needs to change with liberals, but it's fucking hard to combat an opponent who just outright claims that every terrible thing he ever said or did was a lie made up by whoever is accusing him of it, especially in a climate where there's more crap news than accurate and you have a public that doesn't know the difference. I had a normally intelligent friend swear to me that he saw on CNN that Obama said he wasn't giving up the office if Trump won. He really saw and article on a fake new site which CLAIMED the story was from CNN, most likely on his Facebook page. If Zuckerberg thinks the shit on Facebook didn't have any effect whatsoever on the election then he really did steal it from his college roommate because he's dumb as fuck!
Quote"Not MY president" says "I do not accept the election results because I do not like them". It says, "Well, that election SUCKED. Excuse me while I throw a tantrum". It is immature and it erodes confidence in our election process.
What you think it says =/= what it says. It says, "He does not represent me or people like me", and if you ask anyone that is what they will respond.
I doubt you know more about what people mean when they say something than the person actually saying it.
I am unrepresented by all the elected officials in Washington ... I would have to sit in public office myself, to be represented. The idea of representation is absurd.
Quote from: Shiranu on November 15, 2016, 07:36:56 PM
What you think it says =/= what it says. It says, "He does not represent me or people like me", and if you ask anyone that is what they will respond.
I doubt you know more about what people mean when they say something than the person actually saying it.
Well then "anyone" needs to learn English because "No MY weed" means I don't own the weed, not that I don't like the weed. "Not MY child" means the child in question is not my progeny, not that the child does not posess my values. Likewise, "Not MY president" says that I do not accept him as president of my country, not "I don't like him". That may not be what "you mean" when you say it, but just because it's not what "your mean" doesn't change what "it means".
Quote from: Baruch on November 11, 2016, 08:52:26 AM
That is why she thinks I am the product of Deconstructionism ... actually I practice poetic license.
(http://img.picturequotes.com/2/80/79198/he-was-such-a-bad-writer-they-revoked-his-poetic-license-quote-1.jpg)
Novelty web sites ... that compare you against Star Trek characters, Harry Potter characters ... even famous writers ...
The one that supposedly analyzes your writing style ... I submitted something I had written (for other reasons) and it said I wrote like Lovecraft ;-) That explains why I support Cthulhu .... as long as he is kosher ;-)
You can't impeach someone before they are in office...
Quote from: Cavebear on November 17, 2016, 03:21:01 AM
You can't impeach someone before they are in office...
And not at all if the peaches aren't ripe yet ;-)
Trump is making bad decisions now. But they are only possibilities until he actually takes officeand does something. We need to see what he does then.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 28, 2016, 01:45:30 AM
Trump is making bad decisions now. But they are only possibilities until he actually takes officeand does something. We need to see what he does then.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 28, 2016, 01:45:30 AM
Trump is making bad decisions now. But they are only possibilities until he actually takes officeand does something. We need to see what he does then.
What do you think the odds are that in 2019, we'll love what went down in 2016?
"I didn't have a good opinion of Trump during the election when he said a lot of dumb shit and advocated some terrible policies. I didn't like him shortly after his election victory when he started floating horrific appointments. But after he took office, everything turned out okay. He didn't do any of the horrible stuff he said he was going to do. Instead, along with our Republican legislature, he implemented a lot of sensible and wise policies. Our healthcare system is better than ever. Our energy policy is the envy of the world. Our social policies are forward-thinking and progressive. Our allies love us. We even put a kibosh on Cold War II - Russia now has a very cordial and cooperative relationship with us and our European allies, especially Ukraine."
Anyone feel like betting on that outcome?
Yeah..now if only the fair maiden would kiss the monster the angry townfolk will put away the pitchforks and torches and go home to live happily ever after..
Actually, since health care and health insurance inflation continues way higher than wage increases, it is only a matter of time before a bottle of aspirin is the only medicine you can get. Welcome to Banana Republic.
Sucking up to Ukraine and Saudi Arabia has been good ... how? Rather have Russia and China on my side, any day.
A Republican legislature isn't my problem, it is a Democrat problem.
Having a least some coal industry is necessary for industry (unless you really do move it all to China).
Americans have never been progressive ... Left policies are the exception, not the rule. Read your American history.
Our allies are always screwing us over ... we should have enemies that good.
Will Trump improve this? I doubt it. The problems are systemic, not partisan. You are two wolves arguing over who gets to eat the last sheep.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 28, 2016, 11:44:29 AM
What do you think the odds are that in 2019, we'll love what went down in 2016?
"I didn't have a good opinion of Trump during the election when he said a lot of dumb shit and advocated some terrible policies. I didn't like him shortly after his election victory when he started floating horrific appointments. But after he took office, everything turned out okay. He didn't do any of the horrible stuff he said he was going to do. Instead, along with our Republican legislature, he implemented a lot of sensible and wise policies. Our healthcare system is better than ever. Our energy policy is the envy of the world. Our social policies are forward-thinking and progressive. Our allies love us. We even put a kibosh on Cold War II - Russia now has a very cordial and cooperative relationship with us and our European allies, especially Ukraine."
Anyone feel like betting on that outcome?
I
might be persuaded to place a wager, not on whether we'll be happy about the choice or not, but to what extent he and the Republicans in office fuck us over. I'm thinking it will be a medium hard fucking. Could have gone better, but definitely could have gone worse.
Quote from: Hydra009 on November 28, 2016, 11:44:29 AM
What do you think the odds are that in 2019, we'll love what went down in 2016?
"I didn't have a good opinion of Trump during the election when he said a lot of dumb shit and advocated some terrible policies. I didn't like him shortly after his election victory when he started floating horrific appointments. But after he took office, everything turned out okay. He didn't do any of the horrible stuff he said he was going to do. Instead, along with our Republican legislature, he implemented a lot of sensible and wise policies. Our healthcare system is better than ever. Our energy policy is the envy of the world. Our social policies are forward-thinking and progressive. Our allies love us. We even put a kibosh on Cold War II - Russia now has a very cordial and cooperative relationship with us and our European allies, especially Ukraine."
Anyone feel like betting on that outcome?
Wow, I never expected to see the phrase "sensible and wise policies" in the same sentence with "Republican legislature." Even if it
was tongue in cheek...
I think a wait-and-see attitude is going to backfire on those who like the idea.
Quote from: widdershins on November 28, 2016, 01:27:58 PM
I'm thinking it will be a medium hard fucking.
I think it'll be as if they used one of these on us, set to maximum thrust:
(http://sexmachinereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_0413-1550-770x385.jpg)
Some people like that sort of thing ... sometime even dressed in cosplay outfits. This only happens because American men are total losers as lovers. Fortunately Spanish, French ... Italian men aren't right over the border, or our children would all look like them, not like us ;-)