Florida Gay Nightclub Mass Shooting

[Munch]

I've really got to get this off my chest, but fact of the matter is, in america, it doesn't matter what you believe or your political stance is, islamic, christian, liberal, conservative, atheist, agnostic, it really doesn't matter when its so easy to buy something that can kill so many people in a few seconds, and nothing is done to stop it.

The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in 2012 didn't highlight anything of the killers beliefs, just that he planned it all out. I honestly would never come to america, due to just how easy guns are sold to psychopaths living in it. And while yes in europe theirs been bombings, bombs are things people construct themselves as weapons for mass killing, its not sold in shops down the street.

[Baruch]

Usually AK47s aren't sold in shops down my street.  You have to go to gun shows for that.  Only adults should have access to alcohol or guns.

Britain had an opportunity in 1812-15 to exterminate the former colonials ... and y'all failed.  Our psychopathic violence came in handy in WW I and WW II.

A certain pacifist in India also whipped you.  Maybe Britain needs to man up.  You have a chance in your vote this month!

In a free country, adults have access to cars and guns ... and are held responsible for their use.  I am free to use my car or my gun irresponsibly, though that doesn't make it right.  But trying to enslave me just makes me want to kill the slaver ... it doesn't reduce my violence, it maximizes it.

[Johan]

Fuck Florida, and anyone who is seriously going to continue defending this bullshit by saying guns aren't the issue... you are fucking mental.

So fix it or STFU.

[FaithIsFilth]

If this guy is ISIS, he probably didn't do this just because of the gay thing. It was probably a combination of him wanting to show his support for ISIS and to fulfill his obligation to Allah, and he didn't like gay people so he chose them as the target. I blame this on George Bush, Cheney, Obama, and Hillary. They are to blame for things like this. Shame on them. They are also to blame for every suicide committed by an American soldier. Guns don't suicide people. Bush and Obama suicide people by fucking up their minds with these wars.

[Baruch]

So fix it or STFU.

Maybe FEMA camps are the issue.  Maybe Satanic forces in corporations and government are the issue.  But my plastic spork isn't the issue.

Shiranu ... you know that guns are banned in Australia.  Have you considered you might be happier there?  I agree that Americans are disgusting creatures.

[Baruch]

If this guy is ISIS, he probably didn't do this just because of the gay thing. It was probably a combination of him wanting to show his support for ISIS and to fulfill his obligation to Allah, and he didn't like gay people so he chose them as the target. I blame this on George Bush, Cheney, Obama, and Hillary. They are to blame for things like this. Shame on them. They are also to blame for every suicide committed by an American soldier. Guns don't suicide people. Bush and Obama suicide people by fucking up their minds with these wars.

Deep state.  ISIS has a kill list of 8000 Americans, including 600 in Florida.  What if ISIS works for the MIC, and the rather conservative MIC has decided to end Liberalism the hard way?  Can't do it directly, so just hire ISIS.  Same as Blackwater, only with decapitations.

You make a lot of money thru warfare.  So lets have war all the time.  This is why the US was in Vietnam, not because of anti-communism.

[drunkenshoe]

FaithIsFilth,

You have this gun culture and these gun issues, as a result of policies that has been profitable and beneficial to your society in many aspects. But this is running its course. In the first opportunity, with any excuse they can smack down hard and manipulate the gun issue all they want. Nobody can do anything about it.

Federal government of the USA does not need to and will not negotiate with its citizens when things reach a certain point and the order is threatened -and by that I am not even talking about something extraordinary- and do its job. Which is not as far away as people think. This as simple as that. All that inflated fantastical understanding of freedom, those 'rights', politics and discussions about them DO NOT MEAN anything at all. No, they do not need to force a ban either.

People are allowed to play now, because order is not under threat, almost nobody cares about shootings; the culture has already produced its conviction and defense mechanisms and the gun culture is profitable, also beneficial for a group in a certain aspect of the culture, a means of propaganda...etc. That's all. So who is supporting gun ban for what reasons and who doesn't...only talk. And counts as much as chatting in this forum.

This belief, this delusion of people thinking that this cannot change, because it's a 'constitutional right' or as they believe that there is a rational explanation behind it or 'This is America' or because something blah blah is just comical.

I'm not saying these to be obnoxious or offensive. When the time comes and this ceased to be what it is now or has been, it will be smacked down. And people can't do or say anything about it. It's not up to them. You are living in a delusion which perfectly fits the issue tself.  

[Shiranu]

So fix it or STFU.

So you want me to fix a problem without criticizing it, a problem with other people's mindset. A problem that takes a society admitting it even exists, you want me to not talk about it unless me, personally, can fix it.

I just want to be clear... you are promising to never criticize someone with a different opinion, since it achieves nothing, from now on, right?

Make me be silent or STFU and grow the fuck up Johan.

Chingate y comer una verga, pendejo.

[drunkenshoe]

But if he was ISIL, I am thinking he would blow himself up, not shooting around and taking hostages. ALso ISIL wuold move with 2-3 people not 1.

Choosing a bar makes sense, it doesn't have to be the gay thing. Confined public places of the sort are suitable to achieve panic and also better to control compared to many other places? But yeah it could pretty much be that it is a bar and a gay one.

May be an independent supporter of ISIL? I have no idea.

[drunkenshoe]

ISIS has a kill list of 8000 Americans, including 600 in Florida.  What if ISIS works for the MIC, and the rather conservative MIC has decided to end Liberalism the hard way?  Can't do it directly, so just hire ISIS.  Same as Blackwater, only with decapitations.

You make a lot of money thru warfare.  So lets have war all the time.  This is why the US was in Vietnam, not because of anti-communism.

Agreed about how profitable war industry is...etc. But ISIL wants to kill just 8000 Americans? Is that all? Why just 8000? Or you are just rambling for fun?

[Nonsensei]

I've really got to get this off my chest, but fact of the matter is, in america, it doesn't matter what you believe or your political stance is, islamic, christian, liberal, conservative, atheist, agnostic, it really doesn't matter when its so easy to buy something that can kill so many people in a few seconds, and nothing is done to stop it.

The Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in 2012 didn't highlight anything of the killers beliefs, just that he planned it all out. I honestly would never come to america, due to just how easy guns are sold to psychopaths living in it. And while yes in europe theirs been bombings, bombs are things people construct themselves as weapons for mass killing, its not sold in shops down the street.

As soon as we make guns illegal, they will all disappear!! :D

Acquiring a gun through illegal means is impossible and not at all easier than buying a piece of pie at the diner. Nope...

Further, once guns are made illegal all violence will instantly end since, as everyone knows, the only way for one person to do harm to another is through the use of a gun!

Bombs don't exist. Setting fire to a building and watching everyone inside it burn to death can't happen. A determined person who wants to kill a bunch of people will have absolutely no way to do so once we make guns illegal!!!

ITS GOING TO BE A BRAVE NEW WORLD ONCE WE FINALLY GET RID OF THE GUNS. NOW EXCUSE ME WHILE I CHUG ANOTHER GALLON OF THIS DELICIOUS KOOL AID.

People were super great at killing other people before guns even existed. Even if you could get every gun off the street, which by the way you cant ever do. EVER. You would just have a species of very creative and inventive murderers using some other way to commit their murders. Some of those ways might even be MORE lethal than if they had had access to a gun.

What needs to be fixed is not our access to guns but our motivations for murder. As long as theres someone who feels abandoned by society and becomes vulnerable, the possibility of mass murder will always be with us. There is no easy fix, and banning guns stinks of people trying to do an easy fix.

Not to mention that banning popular things really doesn't turn our very well. Gun smuggling would get 10x more profitable over night and if the cartels have proven anything its that theyre good at getting things past our border patrols.

[Atheon]

In Taiwan, Japan and Australia, guns are illegal and shootings are extremely rare. Outlawing guns does indeed minimize shootings.

I'm sick of all the excuses. It's the guns. No guns, no gun deaths.

[Baruch]

Why does anyone think that X will end, or by banning Y, something productive is accomplished?

Example: the Lydians didn't like the competition from the Ionians and other Greeks on their W coast.  So they built up the Lydian kingdom and used that to conquer the Greek cities on the mainland (by 560 BCE).  Then thinking they were too big for their britches, they decided to attack the new Persian empire, and became a failed state ... thus putting their Greek subjects under Persian mastery.  From that point it was game on, until the Greek-Turkish war of 1919-1922, when the Greeks were almost entirely driven out or killed after having already lived there for 3000 years, by the eventual successor of the Persian empire.  That is a long time to resolve a political issue.  America will be in the dustbin of history before our internal and external conflicts abate.  Banning economic exploitation is a trick, to ban some exploitation that the status quo doesn't like, not to ban their own economic exploitation.  Nobody asks the government for anything, unless it will hurt their opponents and help their allies.  Common good has nothing to do with it.

[Shiranu]

Holy mother of non sequiturs, red herrings, strawmen, reflections and ad hocs, Batman!

[Baruch]

In Taiwan, Japan and Australia, guns are illegal and shootings are extremely rare. Outlawing guns does indeed minimize shootings.

I'm sick of all the excuses. It's the guns. No guns, no gun deaths.

The US isn't Taiwan, Japan or Australia.  All fine countries.  But magic thinking doesn't do any good.  If Americans don't have guns, I have knives and a baseball bat.  And I know how to use them.  The problem is Americans, destroy America, and you have solved the American problem.  Kind of like solving the Muslim problem by killing all the Muslims though.