Is it technichaly possible to predict the future / is anythi

Started by Aleps, August 13, 2013, 11:54:20 PM

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Aleps

I have been been trying to think of anything truly random in the universe, and I couldn't think of anything (save probability waves in quantum mechanics) that's outcome couldn't be calculated in advance by plugging in all the variables.  This lead me to belive, that if you take ever possible variable in the universe, then plug it into a super computer billions upon billions upon billions of times stronger and faster then anything we have, one could, technichaly (not practically) speaking, calculate the future. Do you guys think this is reasonable, or even possible?
A miserable heathen scum with no meaning in life.

Aleps

Actually, I may have gotten this from the foundation books by Asimov. Huh.
A miserable heathen scum with no meaning in life.

Aleps

Maybe I should have put this in science fiction. Lol.
A miserable heathen scum with no meaning in life.

Shiranu

That is what I believe, so yeah. Every action is a reaction, the only unpredictable event in the history of reality is, if it has one, the beginning.
Every day is a good day to *remove from server* an autocrat.

Farroc

Technically, the future has already happened and is just as real as the the present and past. We're just not there yet.
"The idea of getting a, y\'know, syringe full of heroin and shooting it in the vein under my cock right now seems like almost a productive act." -Bill Hicks

Aleps

Quote from: "Farroc"Technically, the future has already happened and is just as real as the the present and past. We're just not there yet.
Mind fuck
A miserable heathen scum with no meaning in life.

Farroc

It's not just meaningless stoner rhetoric either. I heard it on a Nova special! :rollin:
"The idea of getting a, y\'know, syringe full of heroin and shooting it in the vein under my cock right now seems like almost a productive act." -Bill Hicks

Plu

Quantum waves might be small, but I'm pretty sure they have pretty big impact on reality, so if those are random you also won't be able to predict anything because you can't get all the variables.

Also, since we're talking about reality as a whole, you won't be able to build a computer to calculate it, because you'd have to input all the computer's variables as well, and no computer can simulate something more complex than itself. (Or at least, not in real-time, which would be the minimum requirement to predict anything)

In addition, you can't know all the variables at the same time due to restrictions on how quickly you can transfer the information from a location to the computer.

As to whether the universe is deterministic, I don't know. Quantum fluctuations appear to be random, but even they might not be. It's pretty hard to prove that something is truly random.


Farroc

For some reason, randomness just doesn't click for me. I keep asking, but if something's truly random, what causes it? And I slways get the same response. Nothing causes it, that's what makes it random. :Hangman:



















Yeah, but what causes it?
"The idea of getting a, y\'know, syringe full of heroin and shooting it in the vein under my cock right now seems like almost a productive act." -Bill Hicks

Plu

Most of the time when people use "random" they mean "we don't understand", I guess. Lots of things that were once random, no longer are. And maybe we'll figure out how the remaining random parts work as well. Or maybe we won't, that's also possible.

As most physics professors say... we're going to quantum physics. Leave your common sense at the door.
Just because it makes no sense doesn't mean it isn't valid quantum physics, so maybe something truly random can exist there, even though our common sense says otherwise.

Jason78

Quote from: "Aleps"Do you guys think this is reasonable, or even possible?

Yes, given a really really good piece of fairy cake.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

stromboli

You mean chaos theory?
http://fractalfoundation.org/resources/ ... os-theory/
QuoteWhat is Chaos Theory?
Chaos is the science of surprises, of the nonlinear and the unpredictable. It teaches us to expect the unexpected. While most traditional science deals with supposedly predictable phenomena like gravity, electricity, or chemical reactions, Chaos Theory deals with nonlinear things that are effectively impossible to predict or control, like turbulence, weather, the stock market, our brain states, and so on. These phenomena are often described by fractal mathematics, which captures the infinite complexity of nature. Many natural objects exhibit fractal properties, including landscapes, clouds, trees, organs, rivers etc, and many of the systems in which we live exhibit complex, chaotic behavior. Recognizing the chaotic, fractal nature of our world can give us new insight, power, and wisdom. For example, by understanding the complex, chaotic dynamics of the atmosphere, a balloon pilot can "steer" a balloon to a desired location. By understanding that our ecosystems, our social systems, and our economic systems are interconnected, we can hope to avoid actions which may end up being detrimental to our long-term well-being.

The concept of Asimov's Foundation was having a computer large enough (an entire planet) with enough input to effectively predict future events. the Achilles heel was random events that were unexplainable; "The Mule." eventually, the idea was that overwhelming numbers would override any anomalies and the predictions over the long term would stay true.

My understanding is that Chaos theory works in a similar way- accounting for enough variables that randomness can be converted into a pattern. But I am not a mathematician, so my interpretation could be wrong.

Aleps

Huh. I think I am going to take a big gulp of something alcoholic, then watch that through the wormhole special on quantum mechanics again.  I am in for another rough night.
A miserable heathen scum with no meaning in life.