Wuhan Corona virus

[SGOS]

3/4 of covid deaths are over 65, and as the Trump administration pointed out, "These people are going to die anyway."  Although that was at a time when we thought younger people were immune.

[Hydra009]

[Cassia]

It really is these people who are dumber than a box of hammers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIhOPOzlvTA

[Hydra009]

That woman who says she won't get it because it's not approved by the FDA will surely get it now that it's approved by the FDA.  Right?  Right?!  Riiiight.

[Mermaid]

I found out yesterday I lost a friend from Covid. She was 42. She died very very suddenly, apparently within a few hours of exposure. Her family is absolutely reeling.

[GSOgymrat]

That woman who says she won't get it because it's not approved by the FDA will surely get it now that it's approved by the FDA.  Right?  Right?!  Riiiight.

Yeah, we had a nurse who didn't want to be vaccinated and used that excuse, then when it was approved still "didn't trust it" and quit. Good riddance.

[GSOgymrat]

It really is these people who are dumber than a box of hammers.

I frequently remind myself that many people can barely manage their lives and when I'm disappointed it is usually because I am expecting too much. Based on what you have posted, you clearly have your act together more than most people.



A lot of it boils down to people simply not wanting to be told they have to do something they don't want to do. They want to go to a restaurant and they don't want to wear a mask or get a vaccination. Anti-vaxers create all these rationalizations which fall apart at the slightest scrutiny because the bottom line is they want to do what they want and they don't want to be coerced or criticized. On top of that, people's identities are increasingly based on political affiliation-- whether they agree or disagree with vaccines depends on who is for it and who is against it. Getting together in these groups reinforces their own opinions and gives them a sense of purpose.

One person in the video said, "I try not to argue facts." Many people care very little about facts or statistics, it's how something makes them feel that matters. I used to run into this with my mother, who was a very emotional person. She used to say, "Don't get technical with me!" when someone would present facts in an argument. My father was an engineer, so facts and logic worked with him, but with my mother I learned an emotional appeal was more effective. Anti-vaxers would respond better to emotional appeals rather than facts, ideally coming from someone considered to be in their political group. That's why when people say, "We just need to educate them and give them the facts" I know it is not that simple, people can be very stubborn. If people operated on facts there would not be so many religious people all over the globe.

[Cassia]

Yeah, all the kick ass, tough guy, Hollywood style American individualism is useless in a real pandemic. No virus-laden zombies that require assault rifles and rocket launchers to kill. Bruce Willis is not gonna put together a team of lovable, eccentric rejects to save the planet.

The real heroes are the vaccine scientists and lifesaving medical staff.

[GSOgymrat]

The real heroes are the vaccine scientists and lifesaving medical staff.

The only reason I lived to see thirty is that researchers developed protease inhibitors, so applaud Western medicine. Yesterday I went to my dentist and if he said I needed to have a tooth filled I would have him take care of it. Tomorrow I see my cardiologist and I'll follow his recommendations. We recently had an arborist tell us which trees need to be taken down and recommendations for which trees to plant. I respect expertise. Sometimes I get second opinions but I would never dream that I know better than the world's top epidemiologists.

[SGOS]

I've been wanting to visit my sister in Chicago, but it's a 700 mile drive one way, so I was looking at public transportation, which has formal rules and mask mandates and are very strict in writing, but then I noticed a statement by Amtrak that said, "If you fail to comply, you may be kicked off the train."

"May be???"  WTF does that mean?  So I found a site where actual consumer discussion was taking place.  And as you would expect, compliance is no where near the norm, with even some Amtrak staff unmasked, or doing the "chin diaper" thing.  None of the comments I read ever described someone being removed from the train, although there were several arguments observed between some conductors and travelers.

Mostly, as we would expect, some people will not wear masks, act like two year olds, and enforcement is basically non existent.  So in spite of the rigid rules and penalties promised, there is really no mandate in effect.  It's just a lot of hot air.  Some people will wear masks, but they are not wearing them to comply.  They are just trying to make the environment safer.  If you don't want to wear one, don't.  Do whatever you want, but don't expect anything from Amtrak to make the environment safer.

I'm guessing it may be the same on planes.  Does anyone have any personal public transportation experience with this?

[Mermaid]

I've been wanting to visit my sister in Chicago, but it's a 700 mile drive one way, so I was looking at public transportation, which has formal rules and mask mandates and are very strict in writing, but then I noticed a statement by Amtrak that said, "If you fail to comply, you may be kicked off the train."

"May be???"  WTF does that mean?  So I found a site where actual consumer discussion was taking place.  And as you would expect, compliance is no where near the norm, with even some Amtrak staff unmasked, or doing the "chin diaper" thing.  None of the comments I read ever described someone being removed from the train, although there were several arguments observed between some conductors and travelers.

Mostly, as we would expect, some people will not wear masks, act like two year olds, and enforcement is basically non existent.  So in spite of the rigid rules and penalties promised, there is really no mandate in effect.  It's just a lot of hot air.  Some people will wear masks, but they are not wearing them to comply.  They are just trying to make the environment safer.  If you don't want to wear one, don't.  Do whatever you want, but don't expect anything from Amtrak to make the environment safer.

I'm guessing it may be the same on planes.  Does anyone have any personal public transportation experience with this?

It's definitely not the same on planes. I'd far rather fly than take a train for that reason and also because of the way they have the vent airflow set on planes. They have it set to vent down so air doesn't recirculate. And they enforce masks very strictly, at least on the Delta flights I've been on. Crowding at the gate is a different story, so you have to be super careful. Airports are enforcing the mask rules as far as I have seen, I made a point of checking people while walking around and an unmasked person is a rarity. I've flown through Detroit, Minneapolis, San Francisco and Atlanta as far as the major airports go.

[SGOS]

It's definitely not the same on planes. I'd far rather fly than take a train for that reason and also because of the way they have the vent airflow set on planes. They have it set to vent down so air doesn't recirculate. And they enforce masks very strictly, at least on the Delta flights I've been on. Crowding at the gate is a different story, so you have to be super careful. Airports are enforcing the mask rules as far as I have seen, I made a point of checking people while walking around and an unmasked person is a rarity. I've flown through Detroit, Minneapolis, San Francisco and Atlanta as far as the major airports go.

If I do go, that will be my means of travel then.  As much as I hate being squashed into planes, I'd rather be squashed for 2 hours to Chicago by plane, then being comfortable for 22 hours overnight on a train, which is the difference.  I've done it both ways, and the last 6 times I've flown, mostly because the train keeps me away from home for an extra 4 days.  I know the math seems wrong, but that's because of the train service, which goes east one day, and then turns around the next day and goes south.  Yep, only one train servicing the route, and on Monday, it doesn't run either way at all.  Now, if I were going to travel to Chicago on Wednesday.  I would arrive on Thursday, and I could wait in Union Station for 5 hours and take the same train back, and I'd be home on Friday.  Of course, all I could do in Chicago would be to go to lunch.  That's three days in travel, and somehow that no service on Monday always seems to add another day.  The train is half the cost, but the convenience is 10 times worse.

[GSOgymrat]

I have several friends who are flight attendants and they repeatedly remind people to keep their masks on. It has made their job more difficult. As Mermaid said, it is in the terminal where people don't properly wear masks or maintain social distancing.

[SGOS]

I have several friends who are flight attendants and they repeatedly remind people to keep their masks on. It has made their job more difficult. As Mermaid said, it is in the terminal where people don't properly wear masks or maintain social distancing.

I can't imagine getting those anti-maskers to comply.  Making not wearing a mask about freedom and liberty is so silly and petty.  They just need that to hide behind so they can sound they are deeply principled rather than childish jerks.  Wearing a mask is such a little thing to ask.  Having a state rig the election process against poor minorities is a much bigger infringement on freedom than being asked to take sanitary precautions against a deadly contagion.  But they act like someone is taking away their right to have children.  Oh well, I guess they are short on principles, so they have to invent something to make themselves feel like they have value.

[GSOgymrat]

I flew American Airlines in October and I noticed during the announcements the captain was emphatic about following all flight attendant instructions, including wearing masks, and that any aggression or violence would result in legal consequences and banning from future flights. He made it clear they were not fooling around.