Tolerance: Muslims Versus Jews

[aitm]

What the fuck are you talking about?!

I am NOT refering to my previous post. I am talking about plain traditional American politics.

Then what the hell did that have to do with my post? Nothing. So why the hell are you even responding to a post that had nothing to do with your reply?

[drunkenshoe]

The standard, usual understanding of the word genocide, your know, what they call "definition" would suggest that genocide means: "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation".

Now of course, your jealousy that you are not Amurican, would suggest that us "amuricans" in the 16, 17 and 18 hundreds should have been fully aware of bacterial and other infections and how they work cause you know….we did it on purpose eh?

Did you read this part: "Jews who died of disease and starvation are counted among the victims of the Holocaust." Do you also know that the international genocide laws (formats...etc) is based on the Holocaust?

It's NOT my personal opinion OR decision that it is calculated that way.

Do you have the basic inteligence to get what does all this mean or did you just enter some angry bulkhead phase that you'll throw anything back at me without even reading it?

[aitm]

It's NOT my personal opinion …

The original definition of genocide was "the deliberate" destruction of a "people" based on ethnicity, gender, race or religion.
Using it broadly to suggest the accidental infection of people would also suggest that Africans are responsible for genocide for a multitude of diseases including AIDS. Give anyone time they can  blame everyone for everything.

[drunkenshoe]

You know what, forget about it. This is exactly like trying to talk to the morons here about another genocide. I don't need another breed. Who gives a fuck what a few people think how genocide death toll 'should' be calculated...or what 'should' be the nomenclature on Mesoamerican Genocide...blah blah. 

[aitm]

You know what, forget about it. This is exactly like trying to talk to the morons here about another genocide. I don't need another breed. Who gives a fuck what a few people think how genocide death toll 'should' be calculated...or what 'should' be the nomenclature on Mesoamerican Genocide...blah blah. 

Right..because fuck man I can't bitch at Alexander or Ghengis Khan or Napolean or Chief Joesph or Hajoulh or Timmerman or Stalin or Hitler…because you goddamn amuricans fucked up the entire world and deserve all my distain…..meh fuck off. You want to judge the pot by your definition…how very fair of you.

[josephpalazzo]

Why would you even think that I thought that they were different than us?

Funny that your memory is so short. I called them as vicious as any other groups, and you screamed as if I had murdered, and called me a genocide apologist. Calling you a hypocrite would be mild. Glad to see your getting your ass kicked as you well deserve. :021:

[Mike Cl]

Give the world a start date to admit their errors. And lets be honest, give the world a real start date to admit their errors that have shaped the world from day one. How far back do we go? Are our (American) actions not precipitated by other countries? Did "americans" start WW1, WW2, Korea? Does everybody get to play? Or just us?

Yes, you describe the cat well.  The only country we (Americans) can or should control, is us.  The govt is not going to admit anything, we all know that.  But we can start by teaching real history--not propaganda.  No, we did not start WWI, or II, or Korea.  But did we start The Mexican-American War, The Spanish American War, and a host of others?  How about the Indian Wars?  For a 'peace loving' country we do seem to be in a bunch of wars.  I would like that to stop.  Once again, I'm not sure how to do that except for us to find out our true history.

[Shiranu]

For what it's worth, and given the direction this thread has taken I can't see it being taken worth much from the opposition...

The colonists hardly shed tears when they went to a Native town that had been decimated by disease and raided their stocks, or camped in the town. The Americans hardly shed tears when they started declaring the previously Native lands as their own. The Spaniards hardly shed tears as well, nor did the Portuguese further south when they came in and enslaved the survivors. The Americans hardly shed tears as they desecrated Native holy sites simply for the fuck of it. The Americans hardly shed tears as they marched Natives from Florida to Oklahoma in terrible conditions. The Americans hardly shed tears as they made deal after deal with the Natives, then turned around and broke them time and time again.

And America hardly sheds a tear over the continued living standards of the Native Americans and the governments inability to even address that the Native Americans still exist and have any rights; see the standard of education in Native states and territories, the amount of federal aid they receive and how corporation rights trump theirs.

If it wasn't for several hundred years of fucking them over, then yes you might have a very strong point that the disease shouldn't count as a genocide. But considering how far we were bending over backwards to fuck them in any and every single way possible, destroyed and continue to destroy sacred sites and remains of cities like Cahokia (where the St. Louis Rams or whoever the fuck have more right to build parking lots than the anthropologically amazing ruins of the largest native city sits) and the continued fucking over of Native Americans to this day really gives that position no leg to stand on. We have intentionally utilized the disease to the absolute maximum we could.

And yes, Natives were "bad people" to each other... therefor that makes our actions justified? Just... what? You can apply that logic, over-the-top as it may be, to say, "Well... Jews stole money and killed people, so should we REALLLLY feel bad that the Holocaust happened?".

[pr126]

14 centuries of jihad, (holy war) where several countries, many cultures destroyed, looted, plundered, raped, 270 million butchered, millions enslaved by an ideology that must not be named.

All this is completely erased from memory, from history books, from school  books. It never happened.

Except it is still happening today.


On the other hand, we must never forget the crusades, the inqusition, witch hunts, colonialism.
That is hammered into your conciousness time after time to make you feel guilty and bad about yourselves what your ancestors did centuries ago.
You wretches. You barbarians. Shame on you and to your descendants till the end of time.

[drunkenshoe]

Right..because fuck man I can't bitch at Alexander or Ghengis Khan or Napolean or Chief Joesph or Hajoulh or Timmerman or Stalin or Hitler…because you goddamn amuricans fucked up the entire world and deserve all my distain…..meh fuck off. You want to judge the pot by your definition…how very fair of you.

This is NOT my definition. International laws are based on Jewish Holocaust.

On one hand, you are screaming your head off that how the strong and the powerful commits genocide, create wars and this is how the natural order.

On the other hand, it is all about how the USA have the biggest horse power; the -EST, the MOST blah blah and runs on the industry of war, it is a fucking job in the country.

What do you think would be the result? Well, that biggest horse power ends with the worst this picture. That's the way it goes. And  I am not saying this just to Muricans, I am saying this to ALL SOVERIEGN COUNTRIES.

Stop acting like a child. If you cannot connect the modern American attitude against the Mesoamerican Genocide and international policies of USA for the last 70 years, then you are a dumbass.

[drunkenshoe]

For what it's worth, and given the direction this thread has taken I can't see it being taken worth much from the opposition...

The colonists hardly shed tears when they went to a Native town that had been decimated by disease and raided their stocks, or camped in the town. The Americans hardly shed tears when they started declaring the previously Native lands as their own. The Spaniards hardly shed tears as well, nor did the Portuguese further south when they came in and enslaved the survivors. The Americans hardly shed tears as they desecrated Native holy sites simply for the fuck of it. The Americans hardly shed tears as they marched Natives from Florida to Oklahoma in terrible conditions. The Americans hardly shed tears as they made deal after deal with the Natives, then turned around and broke them time and time again.

And America hardly sheds a tear over the continued living standards of the Native Americans and the governments inability to even address that the Native Americans still exist and have any rights; see the standard of education in Native states and territories, the amount of federal aid they receive and how corporation rights trump theirs.

If it wasn't for several hundred years of fucking them over, then yes you might have a very strong point that the disease shouldn't count as a genocide. But considering how far we were bending over backwards to fuck them in any and every single way possible, destroyed and continue to destroy sacred sites and remains of cities like Cahokia (where the St. Louis Rams or whoever the fuck have more right to build parking lots than the anthropologically amazing ruins of the largest native city sits) and the continued fucking over of Native Americans to this day really gives that position no leg to stand on. We have intentionally utilized the disease to the absolute maximum we could.

And yes, Natives were "bad people" to each other... therefor that makes our actions justified? Just... what? You can apply that logic, over-the-top as it may be, to say, "Well... Jews stole money and killed people, so should we REALLLLY feel bad that the Holocaust happened?".

[There is a very big amount of people in the world who thinks exactly what you wrote about Jewish Holocaust. Another underestimated amount of people actually believe it's a lie and a conspiracy. Seriously.]

The main reason Americans' various reactions against Mesoamerican Genocide is that nobody is actually RAISED by that responsibility in the country. Exactly what happens in other countries. If you are raised withou knowing this all your life, when somebody says 'about this' people do react.

Jewish Holocaust Museums are dedicated to the remind the catastrophie. 'Native American' Museums are not. They are transformed into friendly places offering the examples of an ancient exotic American culture, NOT to their end.

[drunkenshoe]

For people who wants to hear on the subject from an American historian, an expert on the subject.

There is a mention of Christopher Hitchens at 20:06 with direct quotes from his column. Stannard makes a good comparison on Hitchens's bullshit about Mesoamerican Genocide because Americans 'won' and how Nazis are looked at because they have 'lost'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qra6pcn4AOE

About David Stannard:

After returning to college in 1968, Stannard graduated magna cum laude from San Francisco State University in 1971. He then went to Yale and obtained an M.A. degree in history (1972), a Master of Philosophy in American Studies (1973), and a Ph.D. in American Studies in 1975. He has taught at Yale University, Stanford University, the University of Colorado, and the University of Hawaii. He has lectured throughout the United States, in Europe, and in Asia.

He is currently a writer and professor in the Department of American Studies at the University of Hawaii, where he was awarded the Regents' Medal for Excellence in teaching, he has contributed dozens of articles to scholarly journals in a variety of fields.

Anyway, I am out. I don't see anything can be discussed here among the usual childish, knee jerk reactions of "yooou say my country baaad". Have fun.

[josephpalazzo]

14 centuries of jihad, (holy war) where several countries, many cultures destroyed, looted, plundered, raped, 270 million butchered, millions enslaved by an ideology that must not be named.

:67:

[josephpalazzo]

How about Genghis Khan who murdered and enslaved millions? Nobody talks about that.

ALL OF YOU ARE A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES.

[Mike Cl]

How about Genghis Khan who murdered and enslaved millions? Nobody talks about that.

ALL OF YOU ARE A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES.

Hey, Joe, take your meds.................calm down..................you'll pop a vessel.