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Catholic Church "Miracles"

Started by Paolo, December 07, 2020, 12:58:43 PM

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drunkenshoe

Quote from: OrangeDon on April 22, 2021, 12:38:56 PM
"has anybody ever 'disproved' the intact tongue of St. Anthony back in Italy? Has any atheist/skeptic ever tried to?"
Sorry, I am still FAR too busy disproving Zeus these days.  When I'm done with him, I plan to disprove Jesus, and then, Middle Earth.
Nobody told me how much work it would be to DISprove things that have never been proven.  Oh well... the life on an atheist.   :D  :D  :D

:lol:

Don't disprove dragons please, I wuv them. :}
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

GSOgymrat

Quote from: Paolo on April 23, 2021, 04:18:11 AM
When silly atheists are confronted with hard questions, their only retort is to argue semantics. Pathetic, really.

Quote from: GSOgymrat on December 18, 2020, 12:51:49 AM
The claim is when the crypt containing the corpse of a Portuguese Catholic priest who died in 1231 was opened in 1263, priests found his body had been reduced to dust and bones, but his tongue was intact and life-like. Which is more plausible:

- This is a story that has been exaggerated over several hundred years by people who are motivated to justify their faith.
- This is a complete, premeditated lie committed by the Catholic church.
- This is a hoax committed by an individual who, for whatever reason, decided to plant a preserved tongue inside the crypt without the church's knowledge.
- The people who prepared his corpse were by some means able to preserve his tongue.
- By some process consistent with the physical laws of the universe the tongue did not decompose.
- A supernatural being decided to magically preserve the tongue of this priest for reasons unknown.
- The Christian god decided to preserve the tongue to communicate to his flock that he exists.

I don't believe a story passed down for hundreds of years by superstitious people who are highly motivated to believe this magically preserved tongue is evidence of their particular god. There is nothing I find compelling about this story.

Quote from: Paolo on December 18, 2020, 04:49:46 AM
Woah! Finally a post that contains actual substance and not just meaningless ad hominem. This deserves a more detailed response than I am able to give right now, but rest assured, I will give this proper attention. Thanks.

Patiently awaiting your response.

SGOS

Quote from: Paolo on April 23, 2021, 04:18:11 AM
Maybe ''debunk'' would be better than ''disprove''. Hence why I put it in quotation marks. Apparently not subtle enough for the brainwashed.
Debunk/Disprove   <- This is semantics.

Quote from: Paolo on April 23, 2021, 04:18:11 AM
When silly atheists are confronted with hard questions, their only retort is to argue semantics. Pathetic, really.
You are the one arguing semantics here.  And yes, it is pathetic.

You are responding to what the Orange Don said:
Quote"has anybody ever 'disproved' the intact tongue of St. Anthony back in Italy? Has any atheist/skeptic ever tried to?"
Sorry, I am still FAR too busy disproving Zeus these days.  When I'm done with him, I plan to disprove Jesus, and then, Middle Earth.
Nobody told me how much work it would be to DISprove things that have never been proven.  Oh well... the life on an atheist.
He was not arguing semantics.  The word is put in a scare quote, because it's an irrelevant word describing something you see as necessary to further your argument, not his.  What the Don is saying it that there is no need to argue an irrelevant issue just because YOU are obsessed with it.

If you require any proofs for or against, it's your responsibility to provide them.  This has been explained to you theists (or fake skeptics if you prefer that) so many times that it is tiresome, but it goes right over your heads, and you guys continue to demand proof of non existence just like petulant children even though your needs can never be satisfied (there is no proof).  So like petulant children, you manipulate a response by pretending to be stupid.  And then you proudly call your opponents "brainwashed" and "pathetic" because you have nothing left to say, except, "Prove it's not true," for the umpteenth time.

Cassia

There are many holy relic body parts for parishes to fight over...The head of St Catherine of Siena, The holy foreskin of cheezus, the blood of St Januarius, The finger of St Thomas, bodies of St Mark and St Cecilia and the Head of St John the Baptist.....They put a bone in a gold box, it has to be true!
How pedestrian it is for the great god to prove his existence by preserving a part of a dead saint instead of say...fixing child starvation? Yes, the Church has always embraced and explains (often needless) suffering as a signal of faith. Suffering brings you closer to the lord, let's all suffer together, Yay !!!

Hydra009

Quote from: Paolo on April 23, 2021, 04:18:11 AM
Maybe ''debunk'' would be better than ''disprove''. Hence why I put it in quotation marks. Apparently not subtle enough for the brainwashed.

When silly atheists are confronted with hard questions, their only retort is to argue semantics. Pathetic, really.
It's this kind of stuff that makes me think you are not as neutral as you purport to be and in fact hold strong opinions on the subject of theism/atheism that you decline to share for fear that they'd be ridiculed.

Perhaps that fear is justified, but it is still a lack of candor bordering on bad faith.

drunkenshoe

Maybe he has a tongue fetish. Paolo, do you have a tongue fetish? You can be straight with us, we are all weirdos. :p
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

aitm

Also odd that the catlic church always seems to be the one with all this weird shit going on. Ever notice that? The church with the graven images all over, that are forbidden, saints that are forbidden, all kinds of things specifically forbidden in the grand babble that run amuck in this wacky church.

Every movie with an exorcist? Catlic. Who do they call to fight off the devil? Catlics. Who has body parts and bedsheets laying about that are real bonafide miracles"......catlics. It seems like when the whole charade of crazy started some guy said to the rest...."you wanna see crazy? I"ll show you crazy" and went off and started the catlic church.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

SGOS

The Catholic Church is kind of mainstream, with backing of the Vatican and the Pope, and even in middle of Salt Lake City with those Mormons, you can still find a Catholic Church, at least I assume.  But yeah, they do some crazy shit.

drunkenshoe

Quote from: aitm on April 23, 2021, 11:44:53 AM
...Every movie with an exorcist? Catlic. Who do they call to fight off the devil? Catlics. Who has body parts and bedsheets laying about that are real bonafide miracles"......catlics. It seems like when the whole charade of crazy started some guy said to the rest...."you wanna see crazy? I"ll show you crazy" and went off and started the catlic church.

OK, this one got me. Phew. Ohhh
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

drunkenshoe

#384
Is it this one? I knew it was cooked in some way. Ewwww. Ooof.



Is this the rest?



E: OK, this is the rest. Dudes's all over the place.







"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

SGOS

Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 23, 2021, 02:00:09 PM

It's so thoughtful the way they laid that skeleton on a soft lounge chair cushion.  But his head looks kind of scrunched. Maybe they want him to be able to watch the television.  I worry that he might have stiff neck when he wakes up.

drunkenshoe

Oh my look at these heavenly bodies...Maybe they just like dressing skeletons in corny, old fashioned jewelry. What is with religious people and gold-jewelry? Other ones over here are pretty much the same in a different way...They put everything in gold foil. Yikes. Everything is in flashy gold colour, eye bleedingly over done. The desire and love of monarchy I guess...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2013/nov/19/heavenly-bodies-relics-catholic-saints





"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Mike Cl

Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 24, 2021, 11:06:42 AM
The desire and love of monarchy I guess...

Is that it?  The love of monarchy?  Christians have always worshiped a monarch.  Still do--the language they use for Jesus and his dad are all royalty words.  Is it just so much easier when a monarch (who is always put on the throne by god) tells them what and how to do things?  Then they don't have to think and reason just do as they are told and god will have their back?  Is that it???  Too simple?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

drunkenshoe

#388
It's simple in terms of desiring to hold onto their power. It's about power. It's not just that they love the monarchy, they want to live in some form of it so they could be related to it, be part of it. This way, they can stay as 'the royalty class' of the world.

Democray has a tendency to undermine that system bit by bit when functional. What good is it? What good is it when capital is divided and scattered between a diverse groups and big decisions are made by diiferent groups of people. If there is no distinction between them and the others what good is anything? 

I've known quite a few people like that all my life. People don't even need to be rich to feel and act that way. It's not just about Christians. Exactly the same thing is happening here. 

E: About gold and jewelery...I just don't get the urge to be dipped in it.

"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Paolo

Quote from: SGOS on April 23, 2021, 07:51:24 AM
Debunk/Disprove   <- This is semantics.
You are the one arguing semantics here.  And yes, it is pathetic.

He is arguing semantics in the sense that he is focusing on ONE word (disprove), and basing his entire argument off of that. Totally missing the point, or the rest of the post for that matter. It borders on dishonesty. I had to refine my wording because HE took issue with it. So, he was the one who brought up semantics first.

Quote from: SGOS on April 23, 2021, 07:51:24 AMHe was not arguing semantics.  The word is put in a scare quote, because it's an irrelevant word describing something you see as necessary to further your argument, not his.  What the Don is saying it that there is no need to argue an irrelevant issue just because YOU are obsessed with it.

Irrelevant? How do you determine whether something posted here is relevant or not? What criteria do you use?

Relevant or irrelevant for WHOM, exactly?

Quote from: SGOS on April 23, 2021, 07:51:24 AMIf you require any proofs for or against, it's your responsibility to provide them.

So I ain't allowed to even ask if something has been talked about before here?

You call yourself a freethinker? Are you kidding or something?

Quote from: SGOS on April 23, 2021, 07:51:24 AMThis has been explained to you theists (or fake skeptics if you prefer that) so many times that it is tiresome, but it goes right over your heads, and you guys continue to demand proof of non existence just like petulant children even though your needs can never be satisfied (there is no proof).  So like petulant children, you manipulate a response by pretending to be stupid.  And then you proudly call your opponents "brainwashed" and "pathetic" because you have nothing left to say, except, "Prove it's not true," for the umpteenth time.

This sounds like paranoia. You should take some meds, and learn to read properly in English as well.
Oh noes...I think I’m dead....