Failed Christian shoe promoter makes anti-gay first-person shooter

[drunkenshoe]

From a healthy point, it feels like this kind of bullshit should work against them, because it makes sense, and yes up to a point it does.

However, the worst thing about the religious folk is that they are much more organised, vicious, vindictive and compartmentalising up to dangerous levels. And the stupid and the ignorant are not afraid of anything. 

If democrats stay in power for the next few period, they will do more for gay rights, secularisation of education and they will move into further stages in some areas religious groups see as fundamentally important. After that is finished, I am guessing they will try to deal with abortion and may be 'forcing' evolution to be thought in schools and banning the teachings of creation? Take a Stab at gun and vaccination issue little by little. None of these attempts need to be revolutionary in the real sense.

Anyway, year by year they will think they are getting 'cornered' and while being preached unbelievable bullshit; inciting hatred among each other, they will also think they need to act to 'survive'. Most of them are armed. Lgbt groups could be the first targets in the near future. Let's hope not. But these things don't take much as you tend to think over there. They have never been a second class citizens before. And they will be worse in near future. What do you guys say to that? Where the rubber meets the road? And they will act through religious bullshit. They will get violent. Probably for some time, it will be wrapped up in 'hate crime' and 'gun issue', treated like isolated events by mentally ill people, but that will have to have an end too if it reaches to a level to be called some sort of 'domestic terrorism' then 'it's the religion!' bullshit will start for Christianity this time. (In the US) People will die. Wow, I managed to depress myself in four lines. I fucking hate human culture.

[Mike Cl]

I'm all for free speech, but yelling fire in a crowded theater with back doors and homosexuals should be condemned in my opinion.  Solitary

I don't know, Sol.................my knee jerk reaction is the same as yours.  But then, after some thought, I would have to support a KKK peaceful demonstration.  I loath everything about them, but if we deny them free speech, then we are denying free speech for ourselves.  If our ideas and ideals can be brought down by somebody else talking about them, then maybe they were not as strong as we thought they were.  But there is a fine line between free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater or fighting words or words that incite violence.  That is the tricky part.

[Desdinova]

From a healthy point, it feels like this kind of bullshit should work against them, because it makes sense, and yes up to a point it does.

However, the worst thing about the religious folk is that they are much more organised, vicious, vindictive and compartmentalising up to dangerous levels. And the stupid and the ignorant are not afraid of anything. 

If democrats stay in power for the next few period, they will do more for gay rights, secularisation of education and they will move into further stages in some areas religious groups see as fundamentally important. After that is finished, I am guessing they will try to deal with abortion and may be 'forcing' evolution to be thought in schools and banning the teachings of creation? Take a Stab at gun and vaccination issue little by little. None of these attempts need to be revolutionary in the real sense.

Anyway, year by year they will think they are getting 'cornered' and while being preached unbelievable bullshit; inciting hatred among each other, they will also think they need to act to 'survive'. Most of them are armed. Lgbt groups could be the first targets in the near future. Let's hope not. But these things don't take much as you tend to think over there. They have never been a second class citizens before. And they will be worse in near future. What do you guys say to that? Where the rubber meets the road? And they will act through religious bullshit. They will get violent. Probably for some time, it will be wrapped up in 'hate crime' and 'gun issue', treated like isolated events by mentally ill people, but that will have to have an end too if it reaches to a level to be called some sort of 'domestic terrorism' then 'it's the religion!' bullshit will start for Christianity this time. (In the US) People will die. Wow, I managed to depress myself in four lines. I fucking hate human culture.

That kind of makes sense.  Cultural paradigm shifts are often preceded by social unrest or sometimes even war.  Of course, another scenario would be that the Neocons grab power and reverse course back to their own brand of fascism.  What would happen then?

[drunkenshoe]

That kind of makes sense.  Cultural paradigm shifts are often preceded by social unrest or sometimes even war.

Agreed. We are at that door over here right now. 

Of course, another scenario would be that the Neocons grab power and reverse course back to their own brand of fascism.  What would happen then?

Well, we are just speculating, but I don't think so. Aren't those guys are the ones who played a key role in the Irak invasion? Who still thinks it was a good idea? Because their int. policy outline would not change if they want to stick to their base groups.

I don't know, what do you guys think? 

[trdsf]

I don't know, Sol.................my knee jerk reaction is the same as yours.  But then, after some thought, I would have to support a KKK peaceful demonstration.  I loath everything about them, but if we deny them free speech, then we are denying free speech for ourselves.  If our ideas and ideals can be brought down by somebody else talking about them, then maybe they were not as strong as we thought they were.  But there is a fine line between free speech and yelling fire in a crowded theater or fighting words or words that incite violence.  That is the tricky part.

I have to call this incitement.  He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist.  As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.

If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement?  I think not.

This is not a peaceful demonstration.  This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy.  I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.

[Mike Cl]

I have to call this incitement.  He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist.  As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.

If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement?  I think not.

This is not a peaceful demonstration.  This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy.  I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.

Yeah, you are right.  If this were about shooting and killing blacks, there would be a huge protest.  Yeah, incitement.  It would be fun to see this jerk arrested and drug through the justice system.

[drunkenshoe]

I have to call this incitement.  He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist.  As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.

If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement?  I think not.

This is not a peaceful demonstration.  This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy.  I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.

I don't think he is mentally ill, but I agree with you.

[Hydra009]

The thing is, this Christian guy is afforded free speech.  However, private enterprise doesn't have to provide one a platform for it.  He deliberately violated Steam's Greenlight terms of service, and that's why it was pulled.

quoth Steam:

"Additionally, you agree not to post any item to Greenlight that contains the following:

    Someone else’s game or software, unless you have specific authorization to do so
    Porn, inappropriate or offensive content, warez, or leaked content
    Cheating, hacking, or game exploits
    Threats of violence or harassment, even as a joke
    Games or software using copyrighted material such as assets or intellectual property without permission from the owner
    Soliciting, begging, auctioning, selling, advertising, referrals, racism, or discrimination"

He admitted to "making the most overly offensive game possible" against gays.  Which likely flagged it for offensive content.

[drunkenshoe]

In my opinion, when we define people who commit violence or express the need to commit this sort of violence as 'mentally ill' -a term often used as the same thing as 'insane' under this topic- we also 'approve' their acts in another level. We avoid or deny the circumstances that create these situations. Because as long as the person who commits these kind of crimes is 'mentally ill' or 'insane', there is no blame or responsibility to be taken. Look, the individual did it. It's warm and safe. It's almost like saying 'god did it'.

In fact, very few people who commit violent crimes are actually 'mentally ill' or 'insane'. We are already violent animals as species. I always think that what turns us into 'monsters' are very simple. A hyped up fantasy life needs and expectations, invented problems, invented issues advertised from every medium; taking inflated egos from extreme highs or lows; disappointment; being 'embarassed' and 'humiliated' for a life and things that actually don't exist. Not tv show serial killer childhood abuses or what is written in some 'holy' book. This doesn't happen to realist people who is enlightened to know that the best you can achieve is being content more or less, no such thing as happiness exists, because that is just a momentary chemical rush.

These people are just people. A very few of them tend to commit these crimes for the sake of the crime to get satisfied with it in some way. Thanks to constantly pumped up paranoia and mass murderer-serial killer types that we are swimming through created by tv shows, Hollywood, FBI...etc around the world, we are fighting with monsters, living in countless fucked up various fantasies we made up and try to arrange some specks of reality from there. 

[Desdinova]

I think that trdsf used "mentally-ill" in the context that the dude is "mentally fucked up".  I don't think that actual insanity was implied.

[stromboli]

I have to call this incitement.  He thinks shooting people like me is fun for no better reason than that we exist.  As far as I'm concerned, he's not a bigot, he's mentally ill, and this is incitement.

If he'd made a game about shooting African Americans or Hispanics or Asians or Jews with every kill announced by 'Nigger/Wetback/Chink/Kike eliminated', would we even be having a discussion about free speech vs. incitement?  I think not.

This is not a peaceful demonstration.  This is a masturbatorial murder fantasy.  I wouldn't want to be within a cubic mile of him when whatever fuse in his brain that currently holds him back blows out, and that he thought releasing a game like this to the public was a good idea makes me think it's about at the end of its duty cycle.

^this. I can't think of a first person shooter that targets a group in such a specific, homophobic context. I don't know the psychology of going from a video game to reality, but no other game I'm aware of is so specific and so hate oriented. I guarantee if the game was "shoot Mohammed" or "shoot a Muslim" the howls would be very loud indeed.

[trdsf]

I think that trdsf used "mentally-ill" in the context that the dude is "mentally fucked up".  I don't think that actual insanity was implied.

No, actually, I think this level of fucked-up-ness definitely requires a private brain care specialist.  He might be declared sane... but I'm pretty sure he's got not only issues, but hard-bound collections.

[Atheon]

"These people that think if you are even remotely homophobic, you are 'hateful' and a 'bigot,'...

Yeah... that's kinda the very DEFINITION of "bigot"

[DeathandGrim]

As someone who designs game I'm mad this is even a thing. I saw Jimquisition test it and he had the same reaction I did and assuming at how terrible it was made, it seems to have been made only for the message. A hateful message.

I'm all for free speech so I can't say the game shouldn't be made but that doesn't mean anyone has the sell that garbage on any distribution platform.

[Shiranu]

I'm all for free speech so I can't say the game shouldn't be made but that doesn't mean anyone has the sell that garbage on any distribution platform.

I guess its cultural, but I honestly don't see how free speech keeps you from thinking something shouldn't be done. Absolute freedom of speech never has and never will exist in the United States, and it never should. And just because you are free to be a bigot does not mean you should be, and to say so does not mean you are somehow anti-free speech.