my friend seems to think there are codes in the Bible that military super computers can't solve. He claims at one point the head of NSA quit his post to study the codes. Is he just a crackhead Christian? http://www.csicop.org/si/show/hidden_messages_and_the_bible_code he says there are these codes that predict events 1000s of years in advance. What do I say?
Quote from: Goon on September 26, 2016, 02:19:52 PM
my friend seems to think there are codes in the Bible that military super computers can't solve. He claims at one point the head of NSA quit his post to study the codes. Is he just a crackhead Christian? http://www.csicop.org/si/show/hidden_messages_and_the_bible_code he says there are these codes that predict events 1000s of years in advance. What do I say?
Military super computers can't decode them, but he can? I'm seeing a problem right out of the gate on this one.
Did you even read the link you posted? No? Well here then let me share a little of it with you...
QuoteThe source of the mysterious “Bible code†has been revealed â€" it’s homo sapiens.
You cannot predict things thousands of years in advanced, nor can you predict things a few days in advanced. In a chaotic system, you need infinite accuracy in order for something to be correct, so even if a few things were predicted correctly, they're just a coincidence, or any normal person could see it coming eventually.
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on September 26, 2016, 04:08:22 PM
You cannot predict things thousands of years in advanced, nor can you predict things a few days in advanced. In a chaotic system, you need infinite accuracy in order for something to be correct, so even if a few things were predicted correctly, they're just a coincidence, or any normal person could see it coming eventually.
A more accurate example ... reality isn't classical, it is quantum. Say you have an experiment (microscopic), where an electron has to be either spin up or spin down. And that it is a 50/50 chance of either one. You can't even predict the spin of the next electron ... just that after counting many electrons, the average will tend toward 50/50. Just like flipping a coin (macroscopic). The idea that we can predict anything, other than gross averages ... is part of the delusion of classical physics (Lagrange I believe thought that with infinite precision, the Newtonian system for say the Solar System, was perfectly deterministic) ... this is ... as you point out ... false. Newton and Lagrange were disproven by Poincare over 100 years ago. People know some science, usually the obsolete kind. Then they think they know something of the Truth. Just as deluded as any theist.
Per the OP ... in any long semi-random string of characters ... there are coincidences. The more characters in your string, the more the coincidences. But there are some who say ... there are no coincidences ;-)
As if the military would waste its computer resources on bibble codes...
Quote from: Atheon on September 26, 2016, 07:59:00 PM
As if the military would waste its computer resources on bibble codes...
Probably already done so. They spent years trying to psych out goats:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats
Thank you for expanding on what I said, it helps me out because I'm not very good at describing the quantum world.
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on September 26, 2016, 08:32:23 PM
Thank you for expanding on what I said, it helps me out because I'm not very good at describing the quantum world.
Neither are the experts.
That's true, quantum mechanics is fucking weird
The babble for all its supposed "knowledge" does a pretty shitty job of guessing the future, but more telling is that it doesn't even know the past. One would think ole god would have been a little more knowledgeable about dinosaurs etc..
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on September 26, 2016, 09:32:07 PM
That's true, quantum mechanics is fucking weird
In an infinity of parallel worlds, there is one where Jesus is actually real ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on September 27, 2016, 07:21:08 AM
In an infinity of parallel worlds, there is one where Jesus is actually real ;-))
But can he operate independently of the physical laws of that reality?
Quote from: SGOS on September 27, 2016, 07:30:03 AM
But can he operate independently of the physical laws of that reality?
if the physical laws are different in every reality, how about one where the laws are controlled by someone's will?
Supposed Bible codes are no different than predictions of Nostradamus. Look long enough and hard enough and you'll be able to find patterns that don't really exist. Besides, the word of God is supposed to tell mankind how to be saved. What would be the point in hiding things if he really wants to save people?
Quote from: widdershins on September 28, 2016, 02:07:30 PM
Supposed Bible codes are no different than predictions of Nostradamus. Look long enough and hard enough and you'll be able to find patterns that don't really exist. Besides, the word of God is supposed to tell mankind how to be saved. What would be the point in hiding things if he really wants to save people?
Jesus speaks in parables, so it just makes sense that the Bible would speak in codes. Being direct is much too mundane for a book of the supernatural, and as such, it must maintain a mysterious air about it.
Quote from: Goon on September 26, 2016, 02:19:52 PM
my friend seems to think there are codes in the Bible that military super computers can't solve. He claims at one point the head of NSA quit his post to study the codes. Is he just a crackhead Christian? http://www.csicop.org/si/show/hidden_messages_and_the_bible_code he says there are these codes that predict events 1000s of years in advance. What do I say?
You don't have to disprove them. He has to prove them. Until he does they're just more religious propaganda.
It's a fucking random crossword puzzle. Try it with other books, and a more liberal focus on what words are significant, and see what you find.
Secret proofs for special knowledge. Come out of hiding, God, or else SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Quote from: SGOS on September 28, 2016, 05:10:02 PM
Jesus speaks in parables, so it just makes sense that the Bible would speak in codes. Being direct is much too mundane for a book of the supernatural, and as such, it must maintain a mysterious air about it.
Except, of course, when the Bible says something we want to here. THEN it's not a parable. Then it's absolute. And the best part is we get to CHOOSE which ones are which! It's almost as if we have the ability to dismiss any part of the Bible we don't like and assign extra relevance to the parts we do like!
Exegesis is a real problem. This is why the priests didn't want people to be literate, or literate people have access to scripture. A Reformation might occur (and did). In Kabbalah there are 4 levels of exegesis ... the literal being the bottom level. Puritans say, only do the bottom level, because people can agree ... it stops heresy. So per the Puritans, illiteracy was encouraged (and anti-intellectualism), and all but literal exegesis banned ... to better achieve their political goals. That doesn't mean that the literal is the only level. Good rabbis know how to do the second level. Only Kabbalists can do the third and fourth levels ... which is why the rabbis ban Kabbalah. They don't want other rabbis (who are by definition literate and in possession of scripture) to disagree (as will happen at the third and fourth levels). Catholic theologians also allow a second level, but not higher ... theology in both cases is only for the clergy, not the laity.
So for secular folks, who are literal in a non-spiritual way (sometimes a cigar is just a cigar) ... are on the same side as the religious literalists as far as methodology is concerned. Rationalists will say, it is only objective if everyone can come to the same conclusion (which means we can ban music, right?).
The first two levels FYI are denotation and connotation. There is only a little disagreement about denotation, but there is a bit more about connotation, because it is hard to define boundaries of what is relevant. Rabbis and doctors of the Church use dogma, creed and doctrine to provide a framework to limit connotation. I don't obey those rules.
There no "codes" in the bible. You can get the same stuff from any book. It is all nonsense.
I used to have a kind of admiration for fundamentalists. Since the Bible claimed itself to be infallible, here was a group of Bible thumpers who said, "OK then, we will interpret it as literal." But even for fundamentalists that had one foot in reality, it still required ignoring parts here and there. But they tried more than others to be literal, even if they still had to compromise. It was kind of an "A" for effort perception I had.
But when I tested the fundamental waters briefly, what I found was that when people didn't have both feet in reality, they not only claimed Bible infallibility (with some necessary exceptions), but went a step further, and added their own mystery to the woo. I heard a fundamentalist preacher in church one Sunday tell about the guy who owned the property next to the church, where the church officials wanted a rectory. He said he would sell the property at 5% interest, but then later called and said he would sell the church the property without interest. This the preacher said he believed this was truly a miracle that had the hand of God written all over it.
Imagine believing such a mundane experience was a miracle, and instead of thanking the owner for his generosity, the credit was given to God, who apparently bent the owner's will to suit the desires of the church. And the dumb ass owner probably never even realized his generosity wasn't even an act of his own free will. Of all the crap. Well, I didn't last long in that church. Two Sunday Services, and I was out of there wondering what to do next.
The Catholics, even blindly dedicated to the church, are not required to interpret the Bible literally. I used to think of the Catholics as more rational, but they also get carried away in their nonsense, with committees from the Vatican appointed to investigate miracles, and priests trained to feed the blood of an imagined martyr to the little people, who in return, give money to the church.
Give a document of bullshit to some ancient and ignorant gullibles, and they can't help themselves from creating a church, which then takes the bullshit to the next level. This kind of idiocy starts with some crazy wacko or charlatan that does something like claim to see secret codes in a manuscript. He tells others about it and sure as Hell, every once in a while, some new religion takes off because of some crazy thing that wasn't there, but would defy reason if it was, is introduced into the public imagination.