how communism isn't progressive, and not the cure for fascism ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5Ste5xRAA
In other words, both fascism and communism are socialism. Socialism is a denial of human nature, the muddy mess it is.
Miiitant Islam drove Hitchens back into the arms of Anglo imperialism. Which is what Wilson's war is all about. Though not effective in driving him back to England and into the Anglican Church.
Quote from: Baruch on April 06, 2019, 12:06:34 AM
how communism isn't progressive, and not the cure for fascism ...
In other words, both fascism and communism are socialism. Socialism is a denial of human nature, the muddy mess it is.
Miiitant Islam drove Hitchens back into the arms of Anglo imperialism. Which is what Wilson's war is all about. Though not effective in driving him back to England and into the Anglican Church.
Both Soviet communism and German nazism were extreme socialist ideas. Both demanded that political thought and industrialization be subservient to The State. Socialism is not limited to The Left or The Right, it works both ways.
When I was in college in the late 60s, political ideology was presented linearly with Nazis on one end and Communists at the other with Democracy in the middle. I recognized that wasn't really accurate and had arguments with the Professors. I wasn't a popular student.
As I considered it then, and as it is more agreed now, it is more a set theory diagram in a triangle of overlapping circles. In such a diagram, there is one spot in the center that represents some blend of the 3. That may be "social democracy", but we will have to try it first to see.
Correct ... because you are actually educated in an earlier era. Don't count on today's college kids having heard what you said. The hippies are now the professors.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 09:07:54 AM
Correct ... because you are actually educated in an earlier era. Don't count on today's college kids having heard what you said. The hippies are now the professors.
I'm a hippie... I'm also a baby-boomer. And a radical moderate former Republican. And a Progressive. And a real boy scout. And a gardener, And I plant flowers. And I might be the best pinball player you ever met. And I have trophies (earned) in tennis, baseball, bowling, and chess, and letterred in soccer. And a Trump-hater.
You never know about some people...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 10:22:29 AM
I'm a hippie... I'm also a baby-boomer. And a radical moderate former Republican. And a Progressive. And a real boy scout. And a gardener, And I plant flowers. And I might be the best pinball player you ever met. And I have trophies (earned) in tennis, baseball, bowling, and chess, and letterred in soccer. And a Trump-hater.
You never know about some people...
I don't think you were ever a hippie, just another disaffected college student. Did you die from drug overdose and STD? Progressive today is cultural Marxist. The most progressive program of all time ... feminism is mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWB42mxVNc
The communists of 1848 ... are the socialists of today. They can deceptively deny their connection to the Bolsheviks and other violent revolutionaries. The Labor Party which is strong in GB since the 1920s, is Fabian Socialism. We get what we want, one step at a time.
Young men with a pen ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toeib1Xd4Pk
Neither Marx nor Engles worked an honest days work their whole lives. One a grifter, the other inherited wealth. Soy boys.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 11:44:53 AM
I don't think you were ever a hippie, just another disaffected college student. Did you die from drug overdose and STD? Progressive today is cultural Marxist. The most progressive program of all time ... feminism is mentioned.
The communists of 1848 ... are the socialists of today. They can deceptively deny their connection to the Bolsheviks and other violent revolutionaries. The Labor Party which is strong in GB since the 1920s, is Fabian Socialism. We get what we want, one step at a time.
Young men with a pen ...
Neither Marx nor Engles worked an honest days work their whole lives. One a grifter, the other inherited wealth. Soy boys.
Nailed me. I always WAS secretly a Republican...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 02:52:25 PM
Nailed me. I always WAS secretly a Republican...
You owned a nail factory, you Capitalist wrecker you! ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 04:27:18 PM
You owned a nail factory, you Capitalist wrecker you! ;-)
And I'll corner the market on nails one day too, adding to my fabulous riches, heh-heh-heh...
Seriously, does that mean you diminish thinking? Marx wrote a book after all. Have you?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 04:36:11 PM
And I'll corner the market on nails one day too, adding to my fabulous riches, heh-heh-heh...
Seriously, does that mean you diminish thinking? Marx wrote a book after all. Have you?
The big book, Das Capital, was ghost written by Engels. As per the short historical video, Engels was involved from the beginning. So who wrote what part? Kind of like, who really wrote Shakespeare's plays? Hitler wrote Main Kampf, I am glad I am not an author if that was my choice of writing.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 04:43:28 PM
The big book, Das Capital, was ghost written by Engels. As per the short historical video, Engels was involved from the beginning. So who wrote what part? Kind of like, who really wrote Shakespeare's plays? Hitler wrote Main Kampf, I am glad I am not an author if that was my choice of writing.
Well, Engels, yeah, but they fed off each other. Like Wilbur and Orville Wright. Wilbur did all the work and Orville flew the plane...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 04:57:53 PM
Well, Engels, yeah, but they fed off each other. Like Wilbur and Orville Wright. Wilbur did all the work and Orville flew the plane...
A good comparison. Engels stayed in the shadows, Marx was the PR guy. Also maybe a better beard.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
A good comparison. Engels stayed in the shadows, Marx was the PR guy. Also maybe a better beard.
Beards (or moustashes) matter. Hitler had a tiny moustashe in WWII because the heavy ones popular at the time made the gas masks fit poorly and sent him to the hospital for weeks.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 14, 2019, 05:12:15 AM
Beards (or moustashes) matter. Hitler had a tiny moustashe in WWII because the heavy ones popular at the time made the gas masks fit poorly and sent him to the hospital for weeks.
Yep. Most ladies will never grasp this ;-)
At this side of the world, it's common knowledge that Engels continously contributed, edited a lot of Marx's writings. They practically lived together in this sense. But when you say 'ghost writing' it sounds as if Engels was the actual writer which is incorrect. But yes, traditional Marxist archives usually named as 'Marx-Engels Archives'. Not as 'Marx Archives'. I don't know if it is different now.
Marx and Engels have met in 1844. And before that Marx have written about the state, alienation, democracy and of course dissecting Hegel. Not to mention his letters about main issues. As a personality, Marx is very vocal, furious and writes with spirit. Which by the way affects Engels deeply in the first place.
If you ask me these two men have lived happily married in an intellectual sense, but Marx is the conservative, dominant and the brilliant one.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 14, 2019, 06:36:06 AM
At this side of the world, it's common knowledge that Engels continously contributed, edited a lot of Marx's writings. They practically lived together in this sense. But when you say 'ghost writing' it sounds as if Engels was the actual writer which is incorrect. But yes, traditional Marxist archives usually named as 'Marx-Engels Archives'. Not as 'Marx Archives'. I don't know if it is different now.
Marx and Engels have met in 1844. And before that Marx have written about the state, alienation, democracy and of course dissecting Hegel. Not to mention his letters about main issues. As a personality, Marx is very vocal, furious and writes with spirit. Which by the way affects Engels deeply in the first place.
If you ask me these two men have lived happily married in an intellectual sense, but Marx is the conservative, dominant and the brilliant one.
When I was taking political science classes back in the early 70s, it was always Marx/Engels as basically equals. Sometimes with a slight nudge to Engels...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 14, 2019, 06:45:16 AM
When I was taking political science classes back in the early 70s, it was always Marx/Engels as basically equals. Sometimes with a slight nudge to Engels...
That's not accurate then, because it is the other way around in their home land/culture. If you look at more simple, there is 'something' called Marxism, not Engelsism.
You know what that's probably because Marx is considered more dangerous, but Engels is tame. LOL
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 14, 2019, 06:54:29 AM
That's not accurate then, because it is the other way around in their home land/culture. If you look at more simple, there is 'something' called Marxism, not Engelsism.
Marx was more active but Engel was more the theorist. And Engel aided Marx's writinga. Plus he continued the communist theory after Marx died.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Engels
I was looking for a known letter of Engels', couldn't find it. But I found this. Apparently 'ghost writing' is not strictly what I take it is and may be Baruch meant this. Also, Ithink they discuss about Hegel when they meet and that's how it starts.
https://archive.org/stream/politicalthought00abbo/politicalthought00abbo_djvu.txt
QuoteThe Parisian years (1843-1845) were the most decisive for
the development of Marx's thought. It was in Paris that he be-
came a communist. There he changed his attitude toward Hegel,
shedding forever the latter's idealism while retaining the dialectic
method as the basis for his own historical materialism. It was in
Paris too that Marx met for a second time (end of August, 1844)
the man who was to be his devoted friend and genial collaborator
â€" Friedrich Engels (1820-1895), a fellow Rhinelander, the son of
a rich cotton manufacturer in Barmen, Germany, and Manchester,
England. From the day of their Paris meeting the two were in-
separable. Marx relied on Engels as his best disciple and inter-
preter. Engels admired Marx and encouraged him in every
imaginable way â€" ghostwriting for him, sharing his capitalistic
wealth with him, defending him against all adversaries during his
stormy life and after his death. For Engels, Marx was a prophet,
an inspired leader, the greatest man ever born. For Marx, Engels
was a staunch supporter on whom he could rely in every con-
tingency, his "chief of staff," capable of perfectly understanding
his message and of faithfully implementing his plan of action.
The category is called Continental Philosophy; Marxism. Also it makes perfect sense why Marx is not pushed forward in the US in the education.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on April 14, 2019, 07:26:03 AM
I was looking for a known letter of Engels', couldn't find it. But I found this. Apparently 'ghost writing' is not strictly what I take it is and may be Baruch meant this. Also, Ithink they discuss about Hegel when they meet and that's how it starts.
https://archive.org/stream/politicalthought00abbo/politicalthought00abbo_djvu.txt
The category is called Continental Philosophy; Marxism. Also it makes perfect sense why Marx is not pushed forward in the US in the education.
That is basically what I was taught...
2nd guy never gets much credit ... otherwise the general public would know about Engelism.
Marx was the activist. He was inspired to combine Hegel with French Revolution, in the 1848 European revolts.
Quote from: Baruch on April 14, 2019, 10:09:38 AM
2nd guy never gets much credit ... otherwise the general public would know about Engelism.
Marx was the activist. He was inspired to combine Hegel with French Revolution, in the 1848 European revolts.
Are you familiar with the 4 square influence block? Where there is up, down, left, right in judgement of influence/importance?
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 09:46:44 AM
Are you familiar with the 4 square influence block? Where there is up, down, left, right in judgement of influence/importance?
Do academics live in ivory towers? The proletariat doesn't care about fine distinctions, they care about branding.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 10:43:25 AM
Do academics live in ivory towers? The proletariat doesn't care about fine distinctions, they care about branding.
So, you are apparently not. OK, here's the thing. Both Hollywood and scientific papers and TV lives and dies on this.
Draw a square and divide it in 1/4s where would you put your name if you wanted to show power/influence? The top left.
What if you have co-equals? The top right? Not that implies 2nd place. The lower left? Same problem. And right bottom is seriously 3rd.
Studies show the equality of 2 is only from one name upper right and the other lower left. It balances out the perceived weaknesses...
In politics I think like Coke, you think like Pepsi. That is branding ;-) Has nothing to do with your Jedi ways, Cavebear-wan.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 02:46:12 PM
In politics I think like Coke, you think like Pepsi. That is branding ;-) Has nothing to do with your Jedi ways, Cavebear-wan.
PEPSI?! I can't stand the stuff. Remember the old Pepsi bottles with a white dot near the top? Our childhood joke was "Pepsi Cola on the dot; Makes you spit up on the spot." Besides, my godfather was a VP at Coke...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 02:54:45 PM
PEPSI?! I can't stand the stuff. Remember the old Pepsi bottles with a white dot near the top? Our childhood joke was "Pepsi Cola on the dot; Makes you spit up on the spot." Besides, my godfather was a VP at Coke...
Further proof you are a mutant ;-) You can't get real Coke outside of Mexico anymore.
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 02:59:34 PM
Further proof you are a mutant ;-) You can't get real Coke outside of Mexico anymore.
Actually you can. Safeway sells the Real Stuff. Sometimes it is at the far end of the soda aisle and sometimes it is with the hispanic foods.
Don't you just HATE being wrong all the time? LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on April 18, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
Actually you can. Safeway sells the Real Stuff. Sometimes it is at the far end of the soda aisle and sometimes it is with the hispanic foods.
Don't you just HATE being wrong all the time? LOL!
No Safeway in my area. Was one of my favorite stores BITD. Did you test yours for extract of cocaine?
Quote from: Baruch on April 18, 2019, 03:16:47 PM
No Safeway in my area. Was one of my favorite stores BITD. Did you test yours for extract of cocaine?
Nope. BIMD, it was "Superfresh" (the discount Safeway name) 3 miles away and right next to my carpool-meeting spot so it was really convenient. Now I have to drive 6 miles to the Safeway. They DO have outstanding produce, though.