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A justifiable murder?

Started by gussy, February 14, 2013, 09:44:27 PM

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Plu

QuoteThe thing is though, driving drunk isn't a mistake. It is a decision that your convienience of getting where you want to go easily without having to walk, take a taxi or take public transport is more important than the lives of everybody you're endangering by driving drunk/high. It is an abhorrent thing to do and it isn't an accident, it is simply just not caring that you're risking killing someone's wife/brother/son/girlfriend/daughter so that you can get home more quickly.

This. So much.

StupidWiz

I don't know, I think... the drunk driver deserved it, but there's still law to uphold, right?

Like one of the replies, it's understandable but unjustifiable. I really feel sorry for the father who lost his 2 sons, I can never imagine how it feels, but... even the drunk driver still had right to be tried and punished according to law.  :|
... To teach superstitions as truths is the most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can they be in after years relieved of them. - Hypatia

surly74

Quote from: "_Xenu_"I cant say this makes me sad. Vigilantism serves the greater good sometimes, especially when it comes to child molesters.

no it doesn't.

I feel for the father losing his two children and drunk driving is a terrible thing but citizens taking reveng on other citizens is not the sign of a stable society no matter the intentions of the vigilante.

there is a reason drunk drivers aren't shot and killed by police now as penalty for their crimes. because two children died people think this is justification? what if no one died and the DD'er was shot and killed? still justified? what about going and shooting the bartender or whoever served them? didn't they have a responsibility to prevent this if he got drunk at a bar? or is that overreaching?

where does it end?

People may use this as a perpetrator having more rights than victims and sometimes it certainly seems that way but there is a reason for it.
God bless those Pagans
--
Homer Simpson

Jason78

Quote from: "gussy"If I were on the jury, I don't think I could convict the guy.  If anything, he was humane about it by giving him two head shots.

Does losing your kids to a drunk driver automatically give you the right to act as judge, jury and executioner?
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

surly74

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"Vigilantism is a breakdown of the social order...no good can come of it.
Social order is the cradle of tyranny and unilateral injustice.


grow up.
God bless those Pagans
--
Homer Simpson

surly74

Quote from: "Plu"Drunk drivers who cause this kind of situation deserve to be shot. Hell, all drunk drivers should be shot. Not like this, but unfortunately it's probably not going to happen otherwise.

I really can't blame the guy, even though he should be legally charged, because (as stated above) just because it was justified in hindsight doesn't mean it was justified up front.

I can, listen i feel for him, i have young kids and i this is unimaginable to me but citizens can't be vigilantes for the simple reason is they don't know what they are doing.

it didn't happen in this case but suppose someone feels justified in shooting someone who they mistakenly thought did something wrong? It's a horrible slippery slope.

why stop at shooting drunk drivers? why not everyone that committs a crime? there is a reason there are varying punishments because punishments need to fit the crime.
God bless those Pagans
--
Homer Simpson

Jmpty

Quote from: "SilentFutility"
Quote from: "PapaSmurf34"Not justifiable at all. Obviously the father could not have known what the BAC of the driver was when he shot him. For all the father knew the man could have been a diabetic and had a low blood sugar which can imitate the effects of being drunk. The father was in a fit of rage and although I sympathize with him and can see why he would have done it he was not justified, at least in any legal sense, in shooting the driver.
In which case you should absolutely not drive. If you are diabetic and are halfway towards a diabetic coma your ability to drive is definitely impaired. If you have any medical condition which has the same symptoms of drunkenness you are not fit to drive and by doing so you are being irresponsible and risking not only your own life, but the lives of others around you.

Quote from: "Horsefly"It's justifiable from the father's point of view. This guy killed 2 of his sons through making a stupid and selfish mistake.
The thing is though, driving drunk isn't a mistake. It is a decision that your convienience of getting where you want to go easily without having to walk, take a taxi or take public transport is more important than the lives of everybody you're endangering by driving drunk/high. It is an abhorrent thing to do and it isn't an accident, it is simply just not caring that you're risking killing someone's wife/brother/son/girlfriend/daughter so that you can get home more quickly.

Bullshit. That only applies to social drinkers. If this guy was an untreated alcoholic, he lost the choice of making reasonable decisions when he developed alcoholism. There is NO excuse to justify shooting an unarmed person in the head.
???  ??

buttfinger

Quote from: "surly74"
Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"Vigilantism is a breakdown of the social order...no good can come of it.
Social order is the cradle of tyranny and unilateral injustice.


grow up.
What a well-reasoned response.  And insightful too.

Quit with the character assassination and make a real response.

Plu

QuoteI can, listen i feel for him, i have young kids and i this is unimaginable to me but citizens can't be vigilantes for the simple reason is they don't know what they are doing.

I know, I don't agree with the vigilantism either. But I consider the punishment the man got, despite being applied unlawfully, to be fitting with the crime.

Quotewhy stop at shooting drunk drivers? why not everyone that committs a crime? there is a reason there are varying punishments because punishments need to fit the crime.

The crime for drunk driving isn't fitting for the punishment. Driving drunk should be attempted manslaughter always. Instead, it's generally a slap on the wrist.

wolf39us

While I understand that the father is broken by this...  He is not justified, and I do believe I WOULD convict him of murder.

SilentFutility

Quote from: "Jmpty"Bullshit.
How polite.

Quote from: "Jmpty"That only applies to social drinkers. If this guy was an untreated alcoholic, he lost the choice of making reasonable decisions when he developed alcoholism.
If someone isn't of sound mind then when they commit a crime it still isn't a 'mistake'. If they are mentally ill or they are no longer capable of looking after themselves and making rational decisions then they definitely do have diminished responsibility for their actions, but they still did something very wrong all the same.

Quote from: "Jmpty"There is NO excuse to justify shooting an unarmed person in the head.
I didn't justify shooting anybody. I expressed my views on drink driving. I definitely think that the killing of the drunk driver was a crime and should be treated as such.

Obviously I'm just talking bullshit because you so kindly say so though.

Jmpty

Quote from: "Plu"
QuoteI can, listen i feel for him, i have young kids and i this is unimaginable to me but citizens can't be vigilantes for the simple reason is they don't know what they are doing.

I know, I don't agree with the vigilantism either. But I consider the punishment the man got, despite being applied unlawfully, to be fitting with the crime.

Quotewhy stop at shooting drunk drivers? why not everyone that committs a crime? there is a reason there are varying punishments because punishments need to fit the crime.

The crime for drunk driving isn't fitting for the punishment. Driving drunk should be attempted manslaughter always. Instead, it's generally a slap on the wrist.

What about texting while driving? Or speeding?
???  ??

Plu

QuoteWhat about texting while driving? Or speeding?

As far as I'm concerned, the third time you get caught not paying attention to the road and obeying the traffic rules, you should be dragged out on the street and executed.

You're operating a 2000 pound machine moving at high velocity, learn to treat it as the dangerous device it is.

buttfinger

Speeding.  Merp.

Speed limits are well lower than is safe to operate a vehicle in the area they are posted.  Very seldom is it warranted that they be as low as they are.

Jmpty

Quote from: "buttfinger"Speeding.  Merp.

Speed limits are well lower than is safe to operate a vehicle in the area they are posted.  Very seldom is it warranted that they be as low as they are.

You have some facts or statistics to back that up?
???  ??