Submissive relationships

[Shiranu]

The nuclear family has to go...

To be fair the nuclear family went long ago. You don't need to be a feminist to have issues with the utopia-dream of a nuclear family.

[drunkenshoe]

Yes you can decide what to do, except that when it goes against the dogma gender theory sophistry you are just hurting women by perpetuating pathriarchal attitudes and should repent apologize for your oringinal sin internalized misogyny.

You don't know one thing about what I think on gender issues. You can't get into a real argument about it or produce an opinion independently, because you are a 20 year old kid without one real life experience about human relationships, let alone what goes between genders. How can you differ an idea from a dogma in your position?

And all you desire is to find an 'opponent' to attack and pour your anger (?) triggered by vloggers and bloggers you follow. You are living in a made up tiny world sitting in front of a computer and getting pissed off to a several vloggersx read by a tiny minority as aitm said.

Theres no feminism, it is not just one thing, there's just feminists and their specifics ideas. If your feminism is giving women self determination, nice. But you are not the pope of feminism. And other feminists will tear you down when you defend porn stars and prostitutes. Those feminists that care more about their utopia than indivual freedom are the ones the OP is talking about.

It seems you are the pope of this feminists and their specific ideas.

OP is offering a bullshit statement and it is what it is. Bullshit. It's a very good evidence to see that neither her, nor you ever had a relationship or ever committed to a person.
You are living your life in vlogs and blogs. Get out to the real world.

Nah because she just can't respond and won't. She's unable to understand my simple semantic argument as was demonstrated some months ago. Continue berating the other guy in peace.

We didn't have an argument months ago. You just came here, jumped in and kept pouring your teenage boy anger which is mostly laughable AND you will laugh at yourself the same way I do now when I read your posts a 20 years later. Real life will prove a lot different than your vendetta against SJWs or feminism or whatever you think it is.  By then when you reach 40, this SWJs will no longer exist but there will be other groups doing the same things.

[drunkenshoe]

The SJWs-MRAs, or call it American gender wars; the reactions to them is only a good argument about development of American culture. Not on gender issues.


-how it turns everything into a show bussiness and anything goes as it is profitable
-its ability to produce nonexistent problems not to deal with real ones and maintain the delusional reflection of the giant in the mirror
-how it is not really much different than the supposed opposite, lol
-how the majority of Americans love to fool themselves about their own culture
-how transparent all this is


American people -esp. the youth- are crushed under every kind of propaganda. Your world is too small and black and white and made of a fantasy idea called 'America' nailed into your head. As some American posters have been saying for years, your society has been very successfully dumbed down. From international politics, domestic issues to gender 'equality' to anything.

I have no idea despite all those opportunities and resources Americans are supposed to have above the rest of the world, its culture has turned into a successful version of North Korea. But it is. Get out of your country. Hell get out of the state you live in. Interact with people from different cultures, -REALLY DIFFERENT- different age groups. TAKE A STEP BACK and look what you live in from a different place. It's not going to lose you anything. It will gain you a lot. You are going to see all these things in a very different way. Not just this gender subject, but everything that you were 'programmed' to think.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious or annoying. This is exactly like the subject of active American combatants being equal to mercenaries. There is no sugar coating, NO OTHER WAY to say this. You are living in a delusion about your own culture.

Exceptions aside as always.

[aitm]

I like my women submissive…  Bitch! Get me a sammich!

[drunkenshoe]

I like my women submissive…  Bitch! Get me a sammich!

In a minute darling. Just make your face accessible to...

[Nonsensei]

Its probably true that the actual numbers of people involved in the MRA vs SJW crapola are relatively small compared to the total population of the US/world. However, I think the big bone of contention that keeps some people from dismissing the whole issue based on that alone is the sheer amount of attention these people get when compared to sane feminists. When was the last time you heard about any normal feminist in the media? I don't really seek out stuff about them, but I do keep a loose eye on social media and I never hear about them. If you put a gun to my head and told me to name a even one prominent feminist who isn't a recognizable SJW type, I wouldn't be able to do it.

In the mean time Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn get to go to the fucking UN and argue that their detractors are engaging in harassment and should be silenced because of it. SJW's are getting recognized by legitimate organizations all over the world. I think Anita even had a CNN interview about her ridiculous video game tropes thing.

They're loud and controversial so they get air time and its all people see. Their actual size in numbers is almost irrelevant, they are the new face of feminism and the media seems absolutely fine with promoting that idea.

Also, shoe, tone down the America hating a few notches. America = North Korea? Really?

[Baruch]

Shoe must be right, Youtube never lies ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj-6yZvMtJs

Shoe is tense, her country is led by a reptilian alien and his Isis fueling brother, and they like to false flag their own people and do a piss on Putin's shoe (see the connection, I thought you did!).  The reptilian aliens are all being managed out of Langley VA aka those spooks that love to listen to all your hot hot cell phone calls with your SO.  "So" is Darth Cheney's favorite word.  Darth Cheney's boss was the son of a guy who used to be the boss at Langley VA, and was in Dallas with all the other future important people on that special day when the reptilian Oswald took the fall for the Assassin's Club.  Oswald and Obama have something in common, both of their names start with "O".

[drunkenshoe]

Its probably true that the actual numbers of people involved in the MRA vs SJW crapola are relatively small compared to the total population of the US/world. However, I think the big bone of contention that keeps some people from dismissing the whole issue based on that alone is the sheer amount of attention these people get when compared to sane feminists. When was the last time you heard about any normal feminist in the media? I don't really seek out stuff about them, but I do keep a loose eye on social media and I never hear about them. If you put a gun to my head and told me to name a even one prominent feminist who isn't a recognizable SJW type, I wouldn't be able to do it.

In the mean time Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn get to go to the fucking UN and argue that their detractors are engaging in harassment and should be silenced because of it. SJW's are getting recognized by legitimate organizations all over the world. I think Anita even had a CNN interview about her ridiculous video game tropes thing.

They're loud and controversial so they get air time and its all people see. Their actual size in numbers is almost irrelevant, they are the new face of feminism and the media seems absolutely fine with promoting that idea.

Also, shoe, tone down the America hating a few notches. America = North Korea? Really?

Yeah, look at me, I hate America and Americans. That's why I have been spending time in this forum, visiting the country when I can, consume its cultural products, because I hate it. Do you need a sarcasm sign? If I hated America, I would stay away from everything related to it, instead of trying to figure it out. If it offends you when put in a blunt way, too bad. As I said above, there is no otherw way to put this.

I said 'a successful version' of North Korea. And yes exactly like that in caricaturised sense. That's the biggest irony you can hold a whole nation hostage in with open borders and fantasy of 'freedoms'. 


You perfectly explained yourself what is going on with SJWs-MRAs up there.

What are the chances of a non-controversial, non-screaming, non-insulting, non-sensational presentation of ANY REAL ISSUE in American media/culture to be successful? Who are going to watch/listen/read a sensible rendering of gender issues? Political issues? Any issues? That's what I mean when I say this is a general issue of American culture and its development.

Everything needs to be turned into an offensive, colourful show to be successful; that tells you who you are, what you should think about others and yourself, how society regards you, what you should be against and for; pump up the blood of the audience. Perfect American product. 'You are either with us or against us' mentality. Doesn't matter what is the subject.

And people are buying this product because you are made to believe that you actually NEED this product to exist. Exactly like the countless meaningless products people buy for billions of dollars. This is kind of a social economy.Starts with a bigger scale. Everybody is against you outside so you need to support this *insert bullshhit here* and some others against you inside *insert bullshit here*.

This SJWs and MRAS bullshit is equal to trick people into thinking they actually need something and then selling it; building a perception of a world and give them a side to be against and to support. Like a freaking football team. It has nothing to do with real life.

Being threatened online by hordes with death and rape, however is REAL LIFE. When a bit different type of poster registers here in this forum, when somebody even types the word 'stalking' everyıone goes crazy and he is banned in a second. (We have lived this many times, remember Robert? He was completely harmless, but he was banned because he was a 'weirdo') Now put yourself in place of those women you hate.


None of you are discriminated against because of being a white male heterosexual as you keep writing here. It's a product you bought without experiencing it,  because it gives you a team/side to be belonged. It's a fantasy design. It's bullshit like white christian victimhood. 

[drunkenshoe]

Shoe must be right, Youtube never lies ;-)

Shoe is tense, her country is led by a reptilian alien and his Isis fueling brother, and they like to false flag their own people and do a piss on Putin's shoe (see the connection, I thought you did!).  The reptilian aliens are all being managed out of Langley VA aka those spooks that love to listen to all your hot hot cell phone calls with your SO.  "So" is Darth Cheney's favorite word.  Darth Cheney's boss was the son of a guy who used to be the boss at Langley VA, and was in Dallas with all the other future important people on that special day when the reptilian Oswald took the fall for the Assassin's Club.  Oswald and Obama have something in common, both of their names start with "O".

Don't insult reptilian aliens.

And yes the USA is a successful NK in many aspects when caricaturised. I get that it is blasphemy for you people and very hard to wrap your head around it.

[Nonsensei]

Yeah, look at me, I hate America and Americans. That's why I have been spending time in this forum, visiting the country when I can, consume its cultural products, because I hate it. Do you need a sarcasm sign? If I hated America, I would stay away from everything related to it, instead of trying to figure it out. If it offends you when put in a blunt way, too bad. As I said above, there is no otherw way to put this.

I said 'a successful version' of North Korea. And yes exactly like that in caricaturised sense. That's the biggest irony you can hold a whole nation hostage in with open borders and fantasy of 'freedoms'. 


You perfectly explained yourself what is going on with SJWs-MRAs up there.

What are the chances of a non-controversial, non-screaming, non-insulting, non-sensational presentation of ANY REAL ISSUE in American media/culture to be successful? Who are going to watch/listen/read a sensible rendering of gender issues? Political issues? Any issues? That's what I mean when I say this is a general issue of American culture and its development.

Everything needs to be turned into an offensive, colourful show to be successful; that tells you who you are, what you should think about others and yourself, how society regards you, what you should be against and for; pump up the blood of the audience. Perfect American product. 'You are either with us or against us' mentality. Doesn't matter what is the subject.

And people are buying this product because you are made to believe that you actually NEED this product to exist. Exactly like the countless meaningless products people buy for billions of dollars. This is kind of a social economy.Starts with a bigger scale. Everybody is against you outside so you need to support this *insert bullshhit here* and some others against you inside *insert bullshit here*.

This SJWs and MRAS bullshit is equal to trick people into thinking they actually need something and then selling it; building a perception of a world and give them a side to be against and to support. Like a freaking football team. It has nothing to do with real life.

Being threatened online by hordes with death and rape, however is REAL LIFE. When a bit different type of poster registers here in this forum, when somebody even types the word 'stalking' everyıone goes crazy and he is banned in a second. (We have lived this many times, remember Robert? He was completely harmless, but he was banned because he was a 'weirdo') Now put yourself in place of those women you hate.


None of you are discriminated against because of being a white male heterosexual as you keep writing here. It's a product you bought without experiencing it,  because it gives you a team to be belonged. It's a fantasy design. It's bullshit like white christian victimhood. 

First of all, people who hate something do NOT stay away from it if they have a nice, safe, anonymous way of letting everyone they can get to listen know how much they hate it. You are not a fan of the United States, and you take every possible opportunity you can to let everyone know it. Some of your criticisms are legitimate, and worth listening to. Then you tarnish your credibility by making dramatic, emotional sounding statements. Thats why you need to tone it down a bit. You make yourself seem as unbalanced as someone like pr126.

Second, you have described some real phenomena when it comes to the media and their methods, but I think you step wrong when you suggest that it is a purely American phenomenon. Any society with freedom of the press ends up being manipulated by that press for the sake of ratings. Any society without freedom of the press ends up being manipulated by the state run media. Its six of one, half a dozen of the other. To suggest America is exceptionally prone to this bullshit is to suggest that only America displays the complex outcome of what is, at its core, human nature.

The very nature of media is to deceive. If you have media where you live, you have an organization whose purpose is to shape your opinions. Just because you don't feel like you've been manipulated as much as someone in another country appears to have been by their media doesn't mean you havent been manipulated. It just means you're either less apt at detecting the manipulation or your media is better at it.

As to SJW's and MRA's being nothing more than an excuse to belong to a group, sure. That's another example of human nature. Like you, belonging to the group of people who are detractors of America. Feels good to look down on other people, doesn't it? Even more human nature at work.

As to being threatened with rape and murder, I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to but if you're talking about Anita Sarkeesian then allow me to assure you that police investigated her "threats" and found no credible threat at all. As anyone who is familiar with the internet would have been able to tell her, death and rape threats on the internet are 100% empty, every single time. It was a bunch of immature twats spouting off before running down their carpeted stairs and feasting on some tater tots mommy had made for them. Its even possible that multiple threats could come from the same person, thanks to this being the internet.

I suspect Anita knew all this, but she couldn't resist cashing in on the notoriety that being a victim of death threats would bring her. And, after all, it worked didnt it? She made it all the way to the UN.

Finally, its true that I have never personally experienced being discriminated against for being a white heterosexual male, at least not that I can recall. Ive seen videos of it happening of course but thats really beside the point. The point is that with the media giving play to people who insist that white male heterosexuals are at the root of all problems, I am personally concerned that some day I might become the object of such discrimination. Its the inexorable tide in the shifting of public opinion. Objectively, there is really nothing other than the common sense of others that would prevent my demographic from becoming villainized in the court of public opinion. and common sense is in short supply when humans get into large groups.

[drunkenshoe]

First of all, people who hate something do NOT stay away from it if they have a nice, safe, anonymous way of letting everyone they can get to listen know how much they hate it. You are not a fan of the United States, and you take every possible opportunity you can to let everyone know it. Some of your criticisms are legitimate, and worth listening to. Then you tarnish your credibility by making dramatic, emotional sounding statements. Thats why you need to tone it down a bit. You make yourself seem as unbalanced as someone like pr126.

Anonymity in an internet forum is not some special right bestowed upon to me. Everybody is annoymous here. pr126 represents the standard opinion about his side. The reason that US and American culture come up often under scrutiny in my eyes, because this is a male dominated American forum and American culture have certain strong claims on all these issues.

Could it be that you see me that way, because I am basically the only person who actually tries to offer naked criticism free of political correctness about something and try to express it bluntly because I am using a second language I don't have a native power on? You agree with marucio on his teenage rampage and call me dramatic and emotional?

How is that I am unbalanced? Because what I am saying offends you? I have always been consistent about what I have been writing here. I mention good sides of American culture, I even defend it when it makes sense to me. I get you dislike me as a poster which is understandable as most of the forum do, but you are making a mistake -not to mention being unfair- when you expect me to a)offer sound criticism, but do not offend anyone somehow -not doable  b)use perfect English while none of you can c) give reactions like someone from your culture  or a westerner d) be level headed, patient and calm when it is obvious I am not 

*Whistle. What do you think I am, Nonsensei? You realise you want me to be perfect, right? Anything you personally find tiny bit of credible in my posts, goes there mostly because of the sides you don't like about me.

Second, you have described some real phenomena when it comes to the media and their methods, but I think you step wrong when you suggest that it is a purely American phenomenon. Any society with freedom of the press ends up being manipulated by that press for the sake of ratings. Any society without freedom of the press ends up being manipulated by the state run media. Its six of one, half a dozen of the other. To suggest America is exceptionally prone to this bullshit is to suggest that only America displays the complex outcome of what is, at its core, human nature.

Freedom of press? In the US? Don't make me laugh, American media is directed by 6 corporations. You need to get out from the US to grasp how hyped up and screwed up the scale of bullshit in the US is compared to other countries. And yes in that sense it is an American phenomenon.  Any real news and anything that goes around professionally filtered and manipulated.

The American society is living in an illusion and delusion of choices and free press.

The very nature of media is to deceive. If you have media where you live, you have an organization whose purpose is to shape your opinions. Just because you don't feel like you've been manipulated as much as someone in another country appears to have been by their media doesn't mean you havent been manipulated. It just means you're either less apt at detecting the manipulation or your media is better at it.

It's not about what I feel or think. It's about Americans believing they have a free press, freedom of speech, freedom of choice. This is the difference between you and me. I haven't grown up in a culture that thinks it is free or have choices more and above the rest of the world, but started to learn about it when I learned about it. I have grown up with being aware of this, because it has been my assumption-experiences all along from the beginning.

This is NOT about me. This is about the differences in both identities in two different culture; American culture is isolated and dictating; other is not isolated -can't afford to- and pushed to obey.

As to SJW's and MRA's being nothing more than an excuse to belong to a group, sure. That's another example of human nature. Like you, belonging to the group of people who are detractors of America. Feels good to look down on other people, doesn't it? Even more human nature at work.

Is it? What happened to 'we are humans and human rights go; egalitarianism go, NOT gendres' bullshit

If you get that, how is that you can't see SJWs as obeying to human nature and pour hatred against them when you are perfectly aware that we live in a world shaped by men, when you accept that being discriminated against for being a white male is extremely rare -I need to see what you define as one though- while on the other hand what women have to put up with as soon as they look like one?

How is it that I am looking down on people? Because I am calling out their bullshit? Or the offensive way I am 'talking'? Yes I can be an ass, get over it. I'm actually an easy going, playful, funny woman making fun of everything traditional and human which might shock you. If you can get your head of your ass and remember that the team actual team is the human, we can make fun of all that together. 

As to being threatened with rape and murder, I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to but if you're talking about Anita Sarkeesian then allow me to assure you that police investigated her "threats" and found no credible threat at all. As anyone who is familiar with the internet would have been able to tell her, death and rape threats on the internet are 100% empty, every single time. It was a bunch of immature twats spouting off before running down their carpeted stairs and feasting on some tater tots mommy had made for them. Its even possible that multiple threats could come from the same person, thanks to this being the internet. I suspect Anita knew all this, but she couldn't resist cashing in on the notoriety that being a victim of death threats would bring her. And, after all, it worked didnt it? She made it all the way to the UN.

'Credible' threat? If a death threat is credible, it is murder. If a rape threat is credible, it is rape. Threat is a credible crime because it is made to scare people. If you post people's open adress and full name, full private information AND FORCE them to move to somewherelse that makes a credible threat. Anita is just one person. She is the least of it. She is a celebrity. Because they made her into one. There is a dozen women who got threatened by their private info got posted and police didn't find that funny. Thats a fucking credible threat. Threatening people is illegal and a serious crime.

And the nature of internet suddenly gets under spot light when it serves against Anita? I have been telling that all this bullshit is a result of internet media, but it is an issue just at this point? How convenient.

It's not just Anita who can resist cashing in as I have been busting my ass to tell. All other SJWs-MRA vloggers and bloggers do the same and you are buying their products. Thunderf00t is one of them. You just don't like what Anita is selling, but the MRAs and anti-feminists you swallow and can't get enough of it. NO difference.

Why do you people think Anita Sarkeesian is being taken seriously? Because millions of idiots acted like they are a real potential danger. Clap! Clap! Bravo. They couldn't handle a woman talking about something that offended them and they CONVINCED people around the world that gamers and the gaming world is somehow dangerous. They made the word gamer a stigma ffs. And they will reap what they sow. Politicans are going to use this bullshit for hunting votes and benefits. Nuclear family and its fucking values are still the norm. Not the single young male or teenage life style.


It's not Anita's doing. Without the reaction she got, she would have been a non heard of a vlogger faded away among youtube video archives. But no,  males of various ages couldn't stay put, but had to wave their dicks without no real reason. They PROVED HER RIGHT. And in the near future we may mourn after the gaming standards as we know it.

Finally, its true that I have never personally experienced being discriminated against for being a white heterosexual male, at least not that I can recall. Ive seen videos of it happening of course but thats really beside the point. The point is that with the media giving play to people who insist that white male heterosexuals are at the root of all problems, I am personally concerned that some day I might become the object of such discrimination. Its the inexorable tide in the shifting of public opinion. Objectively, there is really nothing other than the common sense of others that would prevent my demographic from becoming villainized in the court of public opinion. and common sense is in short supply when humans get into large groups.

That's happening because white het male is the standard.

However, this is not a bad thing as you think it is. It's actually a good thing. You know why, because it will force the female end in time to get out of its comfort zone. This is a natural result, no matter what comes up or down. This is already happening. But you are so buried into 'the evil feminists after our freedom' bullshit, you can't see this.

What is the main problem with men and women? Everybody wants their rights, wants to be equal and eat their cake too.

Patriarchal system that you guys deny its existance, prisons men along with women to related gender norms. It's not a conspiracy for any gender. It's a system born out of primitive need. Sexism starts with the natural misandry in human culture; we call it misandry today, but it is a result of human culture as survival of the species has been dependent on the protection of women and children for a very long time.  What is on the top shelf? Male. The standard. What is that standard of being a male if you choose to breed, disposability of male gender.

Patriarchy defines male as the ultimate perpetrator -so the ultimate protector- and the female as the ultimate victim and something to be taken care of. There are pros and cons for both genders; a sick primitive balance in this bullshit system. Women get less punishment when they commit the same crimes compared to men. They are less pressured to earn their lives. But they have different cons. What is important for them is that they are not the standard, but have to compete wth that standard. They will do anything in their hands to fight with it. This i shuman nature too. Noone can stop this. One trend will die down, other will com eup.

The gender issues and human rights issues are still very new and young.  It's going to wander and wander, trends will rise and die...and SJWs-MRAs is what American culture produced according to the circumstances and material it has.

Anyway I am bored, I have written these things many times. Noone is interested in anyway. People just want to blame something/someone.


It's just a comical scene when people who actually never even had a relationship or experienced any discrimination in their lives to yap and whine about imaginary problems about men and women and on being disicrimanted against.

[Baruch]

To be fair the nuclear family went long ago. You don't need to be a feminist to have issues with the utopia-dream of a nuclear family.

If the dad is a violent alcoholic or the mom is a drug using whore ... then the nuclear family isn't so good.  This is the problem with over-generalizing.  It takes a village to raise a child 200 years ago, today it takes a gang.

As society descends into chaos ... as it has been slowly doing since the Industrial Revolution ... the bros will all be shuck & jive knife & glock wielding bloods, the women be tattooed drugged up whoes, and the children better not ask for more porridge or the Artful Dodger be given them the a hiding!  Modernity, tis to laugh ;-(

[mauricio]

To be fair the nuclear family went long ago. You don't need to be a feminist to have issues with the utopia-dream of a nuclear family.

Then you must not be talking about the same concept of nuclear family because i have not seen any major communal child rearing communities. Its still The parents with their kids.

[mauricio]

You don't know one thing about what I think on gender issues. You can't get into a real argument about it or produce an opinion independently, because you are a 20 year old kid without one real life experience about human relationships, let alone what goes between genders. How can you differ an idea from a dogma in your position?

And all you desire is to find an 'opponent' to attack and pour your anger (?) triggered by vloggers and bloggers you follow. You are living in a made up tiny world sitting in front of a computer and getting pissed off to a several vloggersx read by a tiny minority as aitm said.


It seems you are the pope of this feminists and their specific ideas.

OP is offering a bullshit statement and it is what it is. Bullshit. It's a very good evidence to see that neither her, nor you ever had a relationship or ever committed to a person.
You are living your life in vlogs and blogs. Get out to the real world.

We didn't have an argument months ago. You just came here, jumped in and kept pouring your teenage boy anger which is mostly laughable AND you will laugh at yourself the same way I do now when I read your posts a 20 years later. Real life will prove a lot different than your vendetta against SJWs or feminism or whatever you think it is.  By then when you reach 40, this SWJs will no longer exist but there will be other groups doing the same things.

Gotta love how you act so smug. As if you were oh so much more knownledgeable of the topic. I have seen this strategy before with people who have bought this sort of ideologies with influence from postmodernism, marxism and critical theory. For some reason when you challenge them even with a really simple point like that the fact that feminism is not monolithic but a conglomeration of different schools of thought. They just have nothing to say back. The only thing they try to do is discredit your person by trying to paint you as incapable of understanding their oh so elevated theories. But honestly if you can't even engage such a simply point...  maybe you do not really know shit and wasted a lot of time taking those courses.

[mauricio]

And btw i pretty sure it is due to influence of toxic ideas whitin those fields, but it is mainly a personality defect. I have a marxist friend that will gladly and in detail debate and explain their ideas even if I counter they will respect the basic rules of discussion and stick to the arguments not the speakers.