Hostages in Sydney

[PickelledEggs]

Ok everyone chill the fuck out. If you want to discuss the topic of this thread or even get slightly sidetracked with related subjects, go ahead. But do not flame each other and attack fellow members personally.

[FaithIsFilth]

The two attacks I listed were Canadian born and raised men who converted to islam. They are not enemy soldiers upset over the death of family and friends or lost land. They're idiots who were swayed by a violent religious ideology. You know, faith! Doesn't your own name suggest the problem???

You need to stop playing the victim card for islam. Islam has claimed to be the victim from day one and only islamic apologists are still buying that shit.

That's their business if they see themselves more as Muslim than Canadian. They were swayed by faith? Yeah, it's not quite that simple. They were swayed by Canada announcing that we were going to start bombing Muslims in Iraq and Syria. They didn't just attack us out of the blue. We like to play big bully, stomping out the lives of their men, women, and children every day, and then act shocked and horrified when we are hit back. We can call them idiots for being upset that Muslims are being killed, but all the death seems like a pretty good reason to get upset in my opinion.

Islam is a pile of shit. We can't fix the problem of Islam with bombing. Things are worse now than they were 13 years ago. What did we accomplish? They have a billion and a half Muslims to recruit from. Our two choices are either stay out of the Middle East, or remain there forever. We've decided to go with forever. If their innocents are seen as fair game to be killed by us, how can we call foul when our innocents are seen as the same? I blame the death of those Australians on Australia, and I blame the deaths of the Canadian soldiers on my country, Canada. And I'm not so sure that the Canadian government isn't thrilled that these two soldiers were killed. Now we get to lose a bunch of our rights here in Canada, and for only the price of two deaths. What a great deal.

[hrdlr110]

Dunkle

Does your link say the nsw firearms registry has no record of him ever holding a firearm licence?
The nsw firearms registry is run by the nsw police.

Hrdlr
Our gun laws did cause an increase in sales, we imported over double the guns we normally imported just after the gun buyback.
I was able to sell some worthless old guns that nobody would buy for top dollar to the government and use that cash to buy some newer guns.
Gun trade and trafficking>regulation of firearm imports shows imports were at their highest level just after the buyback in 96
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

I was referring to dramatically increased gun sales in the US immediately after a mass shooting where Americans fear having their gun rights taken away.  US gun dealers make out like bandits every time it happens. Of course it's not really a fair comparison seeing as how we seldom have mass shootings here in Australia.

Well done to our Police for taking this garbage out, the wounded police officer said he would go back to work today.

gg

[hrdlr110]

The last sentence in the previous post isn't mine.......hmmmm, how did that happen?

[Berati]

That's their business if they see themselves more as Muslim than Canadian. They were swayed by faith? Yeah, it's not quite that simple. They were swayed by Canada announcing that we were going to start bombing Muslims in Iraq and Syria. They didn't just attack us out of the blue.

Bullshit! Crazy violent people are being drawn to islam like moths to a flame. http://globalnews.ca/news/1728327/authorities-look-for-mental-health-clues-in-fight-to-stop-lone-wolf-attacks/
It has nothing to do with them being victims and fighting back. Violent people are attracted to violent ideologies for the justification it gives them. Islamists and people like you are providing that justification.

We like to play big bully, stomping out the lives of their men, women, and children every day, and then act shocked and horrified when we are hit back. We can call them idiots for being upset that Muslims are being killed, but all the death seems like a pretty good reason to get upset in my opinion.

Our actions in the Middle east are opposed by Islamists but there are many Muslims demanding we help defeat groups like ISIS and the Taliban because these groups kill Muslims as well. So much for your theory that they are only killing in self defense since they are killing anyone who refuses to submit to them just as Islam demands.
Whether we should help defeat ISYS or the Taliban or not is debatable, but ISYS is murdering their way through the region and killing Christians, Kurds and other Muslims alike and it has ZERO to do with us. They are following Muhammad's words and example to the letter. These are insurgent strategies developed by Muhammad long before Canada or the US even existed.

Islam is a pile of shit. We can't fix the problem of Islam with bombing. Things are worse now than they were 13 years ago. What did we accomplish? They have a billion and a half Muslims to recruit from. Our two choices are either stay out of the Middle East, or remain there forever. We've decided to go with forever. If their innocents are seen as fair game to be killed by us, how can we call foul when our innocents are seen as the same? I blame the death of those Australians on Australia, and I blame the deaths of the Canadian soldiers on my country, Canada. And I'm not so sure that the Canadian government isn't thrilled that these two soldiers were killed. Now we get to lose a bunch of our rights here in Canada, and for only the price of two deaths. What a great deal.

You start with a false dichotomy (Complete isolation or total domination) and claim that we see their innocents as fair game? YOu follow up this nonsense with an unsupported paranoid belief that our government is only interested in creating fake enemies to steal our rights??
Excuse me for not taking this post seriously. Try replying with something that approaches rational thought.

ISYS loves dupes like you who do their apologetics for them. When are you signing up to help them fight the good fight?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

It's the same in much of the US military now with the 'army of god'.. A large swath of the officer corp is die hard dominionist.. It's the same shit with a pretty red white and blue flag wrapped around it.

[FaithIsFilth]

Bullshit! Crazy violent people are being drawn to islam like moths to a flame. http://globalnews.ca/news/1728327/authorities-look-for-mental-health-clues-in-fight-to-stop-lone-wolf-attacks/
It has nothing to do with them being victims and fighting back. Violent people are attracted to violent ideologies for the justification it gives them. Islamists and people like you are providing that justification.

Yes, it has nothing to do with it. That's why they bring up the West's  aggression and occupation almost every time they talk about why these attacks happen in the West. They're just saying that though. They're actually cool with us killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Why would they mind?

Our actions in the Middle east are opposed by Islamists but there are many Muslims demanding we help defeat groups like ISIS and the Taliban because these groups kill Muslims as well. So much for your theory that they are only killing in self defense since they are killing anyone who refuses to submit to them just as Islam demands.

Whether we should help defeat ISYS or the Taliban or not is debatable, but ISYS is murdering their way through the region and killing Christians, Kurds and other Muslims alike and it has ZERO to do with us. They are following Muhammad's words and example to the letter. These are insurgent strategies developed by Muhammad long before Canada or the US even existed.

When did I say they only kill in self defense? We were talking about these small attacks on the West. Some Muslims are demanding we help? What has us helping done so far? We armed and are continuing to arm crazy Muslims in Syria, and let plenty of those weapons get into the hands of IS. The US gave a shitload of weapons and vehicles to an incompetent Iraqi army, who abandoned their post and left them as a gift to the IS fighters. The West helped create IS with our stupid wars and stupid policy decisions like arming crazy Muslims against the guy (Assad) who was trying to stomp out IS in his country.

You start with a false dichotomy (Complete isolation or total domination) and claim that we see their innocents as fair game? YOu follow up this nonsense with an unsupported paranoid belief that our government is only interested in creating fake enemies to steal our rights??
Excuse me for not taking this post seriously. Try replying with something that approaches rational thought.

We can be certain our actions are going to kill innocents. It doesn't make a difference if we want the innocents to die. We're cool with them dying, so you get the same result either way.

The number of Canadians killed by Islamic terrorism is so low that it may as well be zero. Forgive me for not being happy about us losing our rights over an exaggerated threat.

[Berati]

Yes, it has nothing to do with it. That's why they bring up the West's  aggression and occupation almost every time they talk about why these attacks happen in the West. They're just saying that though. They're actually cool with us killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Why would they mind?

Who cares what crazy violent people use to justify their crazy violent behavior? Just because you’re a dupe who falls for that islamist excuse it doesn’t mean everyone will.
Ask yourself why they would continue to ask for our involvement every time a nutty theocracy or nutty dictator starts to stir up trouble? If it's simply one sided aggression against Muslims as you and your islamist friends believe, why are so many in the middle east still asking for our military intervention? Are they all just masochists?
Other countries in the Middle east didn’t need convincing when Saddam invaded Kuwait or when the Taliban started shooting girls for going to school; They wanted the US and their weapons to come in. They invited them!

When did I say they only kill in self defense?

When you said the only reason we are attacked here is in retaliation for us attacking them first.

We were talking about these small attacks on the West. Some Muslims are demanding we help? What has us helping done so far?

And how do you know what not helping would have achieved? Maybe Saddam would have taken over most of the nations and he could control Islam through force. Maybe the Taliban would have expanded beyond Afghanistan and would be exporting their hatred and violence at an accelerated rate. Maybe the whole region would have fallen into a long and brutal conflict killing millions. You don’t know anymore than I do, and I'm not buying your Monday morning quarterback routine.

We armed and are continuing to arm crazy Muslims in Syria, and let plenty of those weapons get into the hands of IS. The US gave a shitload of weapons and vehicles to an incompetent Iraqi army, who abandoned their post and left them as a gift to the IS fighters. The West helped create IS with our stupid wars and stupid policy decisions like arming crazy Muslims against the guy (Assad) who was trying to stomp out IS in his country.

Wrong. ISIS is a creation of Muhammad. It’s his beliefs and ideas being carried out to the letter, not ours.
That it is a chaotic and screwed up situation with no good solution is not our fault either. The west has made plenty of mistakes but inventing islam was not one of them.
And congratulations on holding up Assad as the good guy in Syria. That alone should tell you how screwed up things are over there without our having anything to do with it.

We can be certain our actions are going to kill innocents. It doesn't make a difference if we want the innocents to die. We're cool with them dying, so you get the same result either way.

More bullshit. Inaction could just as easily have allowed many more innocents to die. Just because the west’s actions have been incompetent or ineffective is not evidence that "we're cool with them dying". In fact, I’d say you’re cool with leaving little girls to be shot in the head for going to school because of your belief in islamist propaganda.
We're just as trapped dealing with the lunatics of islam and the belief in “the strong man” as the people in the middle east are. The fantasy that we can just isolate ourselves from the middle east and all will be fine is just that... a fantasy.

The number of Canadians killed by Islamic terrorism is so low that it may as well be zero. Forgive me for not being happy about us losing our rights over an exaggerated threat.

You've lost no rights. The fact that we are not suffering greatly from terrorism is absolutely no reason to act like a selfish dick with a "not my problem" attitude.
When your neighbor is beating the shit out of his wife and children, turning a blind eye is not taking the moral high ground.

[baronvonrort]

ISIS is a creation of Muhammad. It’s his beliefs and ideas being carried out to the letter, not ours.
That it is a chaotic and screwed up situation with no good solution is not our fault either. The west has made plenty of mistakes but inventing islam was not one of them.

+1, thank you.

These hostages were forced to make videos saying it was an attack by the Islamic state.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=91e_1418646394

[FaithIsFilth]

In fact, I’d say you’re cool with leaving little girls to be shot in the head for going to school.

I am. Absolutely. The mistake you're making is thinking that these wars have anything to do with helping people over there. The US started these wars because they thought it was in their best interest to do so.

[Berati]

I am. Absolutely.

Oh great, another internet psychopath.

The mistake you're making is thinking that these wars have anything to do with helping people over there. The US started these wars because they thought it was in their best interest to do so.

That's not the mistake. Your mistake is yet another false dichotomy.
I'll give you an example:
I believe the west should spend allot more money and resources fighting ebola in West Africa. Many people want this because it will save many lives and end a great amount of suffering. They want to help others.

Other people know that a virulent illness can easily spread here and that trying to isolate a large part of the world is a dubious proposition so nip it in the bud. They see it as in their own best interest.

Do you see now how it can be both?

You're projecting your psychopathy onto everyone else. I, and many others would actually like to not see girls shot in the head for daring to get an education. Canada has assisted with the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan for exactly this reason. Many here opposed our involvement because it's not in our self interest forgetting that if you leave a festering sore alone it can easily spread.

So, back to your original point that we deserve to be killed by crazy violent people because they have a legitimate axe to grind. You're wrong! Demonstrably wrong!

I don't believe you even think about this for more than 5 seconds. You just vomit out whatever simple meme pops into your head and then defend it as incontrovertibly true because you just said it.