http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oregon-ranchers-occupy-national-wildlife-refuge_56888a61e4b0b958f65be382
TL;DR: Ammon Bundy, son of Clive Bundy- you can get the gist just from that. The apple she don't fall far from the tree, ese. :biggrin:
QuoteBURNS, Ore. (AP) â€" A protest in support of Oregon ranchers facing jail time for arson was followed by an occupation of a building at a national wildlife refuge led by members of a family previously involved in a showdown with the federal government.
Ammon Bundy â€" the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a standoff with the government over grazing rights â€" told The Oregonian on Saturday that he and two of his brothers were among a group of dozens of people occupying the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
In an interview with reporters late Saturday night that was posted on Facebook, Bundy said he and others are occupying the building because "the people have been abused long enough."
"I feel we are in a situation where if we do not do something, if we do not take a hard stand, we'll be in a position where we'll be no longer able to do so," he said.
Bundy said the group planned to stay at the refuge indefinitely. "We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," Ammon Bundy said. "This is not a decision we've made at the last minute."
Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward told people to stay away from the building as authorities work to defuse the situation, the Oregonian reported (http://is.gd/bK7d4E).
"A collective effort from multiple agencies is currently working on a solution. For the time being please stay away from that area. More information will be provided as it becomes available. Please maintain a peaceful and united front and allow us to work through this situation," Ward said in a statement.
An Idaho militia leader who helped organize the earlier march said he knew nothing about activities after a parade of militia members and local residents in Burns walked past the sheriff's office and the home of Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son Steven.
Beth Anne Steele, an FBI spokeswoman in Portland, told The Associated Press the agency was aware of the situation at the national wildlife refuge. She made no further comment.
Some local residents feared the Saturday rally would involve more than speeches, flags and marching. But the only real additions to that list seemed to be songs, flowers and pennies.
As marchers reached the courthouse, they tossed hundreds of pennies at the locked door. Their message: civilians were buying back their government. After the march passed, two girls swooped in to scavenge the pennies.
Ammon Bundy's father, Cliven Bundy, told Oregon Public Broadcasting on Saturday night that he had nothing to do with the takeover of the building.
Bundy said his son felt obligated to intervene on behalf of the Hammonds.
"That's not exactly what I thought should happen, but I didn't know what to do," he said. "You know, if the Hammonds wouldn't stand, if the sheriff didn't stand, then, you know, the people had to do something. And I guess this is what they did decide to do. I wasn't in on that."
His son Ammon told him they are committed to staying in the building, Cliven Bundy told Oregon Public Broadcasting.
"He told me that they were there for the long run. I guess they figured they're going to be there for whatever time it takes_and I don't know what that means," Cliven Bundy said. "I asked him, 'Well how long can ya, how long you going to stand out there?' He just told me it was for long term."
A few blocks away, Hammond and his wife, Susan, greeted marchers, who planted flower bouquets in the snow. They sang some songs, Hammond said a few words, and the protesters marched back to their cars.
Dwight Hammond has said he and his son plan to peacefully report to prison Jan. 4 as ordered by the judge.
Dwight Hammond, 73, and Steven Hammond, 46, said they lit the fires in 2001 and 2006 to reduce the growth of invasive plants and protect their property from wildfires.
The two were convicted of the arsons three years ago and served time â€" the father three months, the son one year. But a judge ruled their terms were too short under federal law and ordered them back to prison for about four years each.
The decision has generated controversy in a remote part of the state.
In particular, the Hammonds' new sentences touched a nerve with far right groups who repudiate federal authority.
Ammon Bundy and a handful of militiamen from other states arrived last month in Burns, some 60 miles from the Hammond ranch.
In an email to supporters, Ammon Bundy criticized the U.S. government for a failed legal process.
Ammon is a name out of the Book of Mormon. Cliven's boy. See, you got Sarah Palin and Bristol Palin and you got Cliven Bundy and Ammon Bundy. Gosh darn patriots all of them. The reason I mention Sarah Palin is because we will be very likely hearing from her shortly. Now here's the stupid, of which there is/are copious amounts. Had these ranchers approached the wildlife people in Oregon- I happen to know they have a very smart and savvy wildlife program- about the invasive plants situation and/or permission to burn, they more than likely would have gotten it. Controlled burns are done all the time. The key word being "controlled" not controlled burns are called range fires. Been there, etc. So basically we are talking about stupid being compounded by stupid, with a dose of stupid thrown in for good measure. More stupid to follow.
Oath Keepers to appear in 3....2....1....- you get the idea.
I saw this and laughed. It's sort of scary and I think it has the potential to turn into another Waco with the Branch Davidians if not handled quickly. But it also made me think that Black Lives Matter has been doing it wrong all along. If they want to be left alone by police and not demonized by the media, they need to bring guns and American flags so they can be classified as a "militia", which is way better than what BLM is called on FoxNews. Also: sprinkle buzzwords like constitution, occupation and patriots into your soundbites.
The comments in the news articles make me want to throw myself off of a tall building.
They are PEACEFUL protesters! With a huge arsenal. Damn straight they need to fight for what's ours!
What the fuck is wrong with people? Is it just me? Have these unbelievably stupid, angry, fearful and violent people been around all the time or is this new?
Quote from: Mermaid on January 03, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
The comments in the news articles make me want to throw myself off of a tall building.
They are PEACEFUL protesters! With a huge arsenal. Damn straight they need to fight for what's ours!
What the fuck is wrong with people? Is it just me? Have these unbelievably stupid, angry, fearful and violent people been around all the time or is this new?
Been around forever, just getting more and more inspired as bigotry and radicalism becomes more socially acceptable ( which is likely tied in to our economy and education going down hill).
Quote from: Mermaid on January 03, 2016, 12:16:09 PM
The comments in the news articles make me want to throw myself off of a tall building.
They are PEACEFUL protesters! With a huge arsenal. Damn straight they need to fight for what's ours!
What the fuck is wrong with people? Is it just me? Have these unbelievably stupid, angry, fearful and violent people been around all the time or is this new?
I don't believe this is new ... but I think it used to happen, and was handled in a less public way. But now everyone gets their 15 minutes of YouTube fame. Egomania is what drives this, not just opposition to regulation and taxation. I think that Obama should get directly involved, because we know how he makes things less controversial ;-( And all the presidential candidates should comment too ;-)
On the other hand, this is all about "enclosure of the commons" going on since 1500 in England/Scotland ... the conversion of the open frontier into Federal lands 100 years ago, was a continuation of that ... and the gradual tightening of who and how the public commons are used. This was the original problem with the Bundy family. Basically royalty screwing over the peasants circa 1750 in Scotland, and earlier in England.
Quote from: TomFoolery on January 03, 2016, 12:12:43 PM
I saw this and laughed. It's sort of scary and I think it has the potential to turn into another Waco with the Branch Davidians if not handled quickly. But it also made me think that Black Lives Matter has been doing it wrong all along. If they want to be left alone by police and not demonized by the media, they need to bring guns and American flags so they can be classified as a "militia", which is way better than what BLM is called on FoxNews. Also: sprinkle buzzwords like constitution, occupation and patriots into your soundbites.
Only white men can be militias; a group of armed blacks are either gangsters, thugs or radical terrorists like the Black Panthers.
Quote from: Shiranu on January 03, 2016, 12:30:29 PM
Only white men can be militias; a group of armed blacks are either gangsters, thugs or radical terrorists like the Black Panthers.
As far as I'm concerned these are a group of terrorists. And they should be treated as such.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 03, 2016, 12:37:33 PM
As far as I'm concerned these are a group of terrorists. And they should be treated as such.
Alas, as is often quoted, one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. And in the case of CIA run Muslim terrorist groups ... both at the same time ;-) Helter Skelter.
You just don't have much of a Rebel Yell, now do ya?
Quote from: Shiranu on January 03, 2016, 12:27:32 PM
Been around forever, just getting more and more inspired as bigotry and radicalism becomes more socially acceptable ( which is likely tied in to our economy and education going down hill).
I think it's social media that has given people like this the courage to speak out.
This must have been disconcerting:
Quotea parade of militia members and local residents in Burns walked past the sheriff's office and the home of Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son Steven.
The Militia guys have been subverting the local Sheriff office since the 80s. Who do you think allowed all those automatic weapon permits, hmm?
I blame it all on Matt Dillon and the Westerns we used to watch so much. Bonanza not so much.
Quote from: Baruch on January 03, 2016, 12:41:08 PM
Alas, as is often quoted, one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. And in the case of CIA run Muslim terrorist groups ... both at the same time ;-) Helter Skelter.
You just don't have much of a Rebel Yell, now do ya?
Alabama taught me to loath the rebel yell.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 03, 2016, 12:59:22 PM
Alabama taught me to loath the rebel yell.
Well then, guess you don't like the Crimson Tide ;-) Never understood why anyone wanted red laundry detergent ;-)
The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. â€" Albert Camus
Slap an American flag patch on your camos and an American flag flying above you, and- oh wait. You also have to be white.
Quote from: stromboli on January 03, 2016, 02:38:48 PM
Slap an American flag patch on your camos and an American flag flying above you, and- oh wait. You also have to be white.
White man's burden ... Team America: World Police ... just dodge the projectile vomit
Grazing rights? The government allows private ranchers access to public land for grazing, but they have to follow rules. The land belongs to the government. You and I can use it, but rules must be followed, although the rules are minimal and common sense. You can't do whatever you want.
There is an attitude in the West that public lands actually belong to the locals, and that's true, sort of, because they are the ones that use it most. People like loggers, ranchers, and miners make their living off of it, but it's not like you own title to the land. There is also pressure to turn over Federal land to local and state governments, and ultimately to outright privatize it. Some people like the Bundys want to own it so bad, they become squatters believing it's for their own private use because of family tradition or something similar to, "We've been using that land for the last 100 years, so it's ours."
There may be arguments for privatization, and Republicans often call for it, but then people like the Bundys would become sole administrators of places like your favorite hiking and bird watching areas. In the Western forests, you can easily see the difference between Federal land and Corporate land. Federal land is identified by hundreds of 40 acre clearcuts. On private lands, the trees have simply been removed with mile long clearcut edges defining the exact boundary of ownerships between private and Federal. While the Feds have hardly been great stewards and made an awful mess of the land, private corporations make the Feds look like tree hugging conservationists.
Quote from: Baruch on January 03, 2016, 01:29:39 PM
Well then, guess you don't like the Crimson Tide ;-) Never understood why anyone wanted red laundry detergent ;-)
The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. â€" Albert Camus
I am not fond of anything from Alabama--well, Willie Mays and Willie McCovey maybe. :)
Quote from: stromboli on January 03, 2016, 02:38:48 PM
Slap an American flag patch on your camos and an American flag flying above you, and- oh wait. You also have to be white.
Yes. Then you will be called "militia". If you are African American, you will be called "thugs".
I grew up with people just like this. I guarantee every outraged, fist shaking statement is tinged with the red white and blue of patriotism that echoes all the way back to the founding fathers. Righteous indignation is a scary thing when there are guns involved.
Quote from: stromboli on January 03, 2016, 05:49:10 PM
I grew up with people just like this. I guarantee every outraged, fist shaking statement is tinged with the red white and blue of patriotism that echoes all the way back to the founding fathers. Righteous indignation is a scary thing when there are guns involved.
I just feel like, if the government really was the authoritarian dictatorship these militia weirdos believe it to be, they'd already be either dead or in prison, instead of occupying public land.
The fact that the leaders haven't been dragged out naked in public, beaten, drawn, and quartered and the rest of the lot wasn't wheeled off into backbreaking labor in Alaska kind of makes their complaint seem petty.
IF there is some truth to their argument, that the gov changed the rules and is sending these people to jail after they already served their sentenced time, then maybe We are on the wrong side.
Some more info:
it turns out the building they are occupying was built under FDR's CCC program back in the 30's. Employed some 150 local people and gave them an income during the depression. The land that they are complaining about-BLM land- was legally purchased from ranchers some time after that. Fees are minimal for usage, and BLM range land is under the same management criteria as wilderness.
Apparently they think, like Cliven Bundy, that the land is theirs to use as they see fit, regardless of ownership. Cliven Bundy, btw, is a millionaire. None of these people are poor. A rancher anywhere close to worth his shit can turn a pretty good profit on his stock. These people aren't driving beat up old Chevy trucks.
If what I read is correct, the father/son were sentenced and served then a judge decided they did not serve long enough….that sounds awfully screwy to me.
Quote from: aitm on January 03, 2016, 09:22:00 PM
If what I read is correct, the father/son were sentenced and served then a judge decided they did not serve long enough….that sounds awfully screwy to me.
But wouldn't that violate double jeopardy? At any rate, that seems like something the state supreme court should have to deal with, not the sheriff's office.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 03, 2016, 09:28:46 PM
But wouldn't that violate double jeopardy? At any rate, that seems like something the state supreme court should have to deal with, not the sheriff's office.
It isn't double jeopardy. Arson on federal lands carries a five year minimum sentence. The Hammonds argued during the original sentencing the five year minimum was unconstitutional. The trial court agreed and imposed a lesser sentence. The prosecutor appealed that decision, and the Ninth Circuit Court upheld the federal law with the reasoning that a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense given the seriousness of arson. They vacated the original unlawful sentence and ordered they be re-sentenced in accordance with the law. SCOTUS rejected the Hammonds' petitions for certiorari effectively agreeing with the appeals court's decision.
Ah, okay. Thanks for the explanation.
I'm sure any important documents there have digital copies, and we have predator drones....just sayin.
Malheur National Wildlife Refuge !?!? Malheur is French for bad luck.
WTF.
Quote from: aitm on January 03, 2016, 09:22:00 PM
If what I read is correct, the father/son were sentenced and served then a judge decided they did not serve long enough….that sounds awfully screwy to me.
Their sentences were, in my opinion, excessive (mandatory sentencing often is). But that's not what the occupation is really about. The Hammonds have disavowed Bundy. In fact the Hammonds are cooperating with authorities.
Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 04, 2016, 07:31:56 AM
Their sentences were, in my opinion, excessive (mandatory sentencing often is).
The guy that almost died in the fire they set would probably disagree.
Let all the reich-wingers go there. Then wall them off.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on January 04, 2016, 09:56:27 AM
The guy that almost died in the fire they set would probably disagree.
Didn't know about that.
But my real point though, was that the thing has taken on a life of it's own, independent of the arson charges.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 04, 2016, 07:23:02 AM
Malheur National Wildlife Refuge !?!? Malheur is French for bad luck.
WTF.
Yep. The wildlife refuge is named after the Malheur river (http://www.britannica.com/place/Malheur-River), which got its name because Canadian fur trader and explorer Peter Skene Ogden put a cache of furs there and the cache was discovered and stolen.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 04, 2016, 11:00:36 AM
Yep. The wildlife refuge is named after the Malheur river (http://www.britannica.com/place/Malheur-River), which got its name because Canadian fur trader and explorer Peter Skene Ogden put a cache of furs there and the cache was discovered and stolen.
Thanks for the info. i guess bad luck hasn't run out yet with this occupation...
On another note: how come no one has called these "terrorists"? I mean, they are armed, they have political motivations, and they're ready to 'die for their cause'.
Twitter game on point.
(http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad231/Shiranu3/FB_IMG_1451860357577_zpsvmx8hj3j.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX3-gVCUsAAf7VD.png)
QuoteDid the cops shoot the armed thugs who took over federal property within two seconds? No, that's only for black children? #OregonUnderAttack@cenkuyger
Quote(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX00NgfUQAAFsbI.jpg)
And people say white privilege doesn't exist. Smh #OregonUnderAttack @berniesanders
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX1EoQbWYAAG9fU.jpg)
Quotethey called them angry dudes in oregon #YallQaeda waging #YeeHawd, and i almost died.
Edit... a couple more...
QuoteSell cigs - choked out
Steal cigars - shot up
Play w/ toys - shot up
Take over federal bldg - cops ask nicely ¯\_(ãƒ,,)_/¯ #Bundy
QuoteDid I miss the call for the national guard in Oregon? I recall them in Ferguson and Baltimore. #OregonUnderAttack
QuoteI do hope this ends peacefully, and when it does I hope we can figure out how these folks were radicalized.
QuoteEven if these guys said "our goal is to incite terror, fear among people" I still doubt they'd be called terrorists. #OregonUnderAttack
QuoteAll these armed white dudes will probably leave unharmed, unless they accidentally shoot themselves. #OregonUnderAttack
I wish I knew how to copy paste the Twitters :(.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 04, 2016, 11:16:07 AMOn another note: how come no one has called these "terrorists"? I mean, they are armed, they have political motivations, and they're ready to 'die for their cause'.
Because they're white.
White people have been called terrorists plenty. Dylan Roof is called a terrorist by the media. The Planned Parenthood shooter is called a terrorist by the media. The couple that shot the cops in Walmart are called terrorists. 9/11 truthers are called terrorists. I'm pretty sure in the US, most truthers are white. People who question any big event are labelled terrorists.
What did these militia members not do? Burn multiple buildings down. Call for the city to be burned down. Rob and assault reporters. Loot stores. Punch cops in the head.
The arsonists in question already served the time they were sentenced to. If they were given too little time, that should be on the judge imo. I don't think they should have to serve more time. I'm not saying I agree with the occupation either, but I just wanted to point out that whites are demonized plenty in the corporate media.
Cops can't go asking every person they see pointing a gun whether it's a toy. That would be ridiculous. Perhaps the cop should have told him to drop it before shooting him, but in doing that, you are risking taking a bullet in the chest. The lesson from all this I think is, if you are a black parent, don't let your kids play with realistic looking toy guns outdoors, especially if your kid can pass for a teenager.
What we are also forgetting, is that many of these blacks call themselves "thug". Many of them take pride in being called thug. Many rappers like the word so much, they put it in their name. My brother, before graduating from University, stole cars with his friends, broke into houses, and called himself thug as a teen. He listened to the music that glorified being a thug. The music told you being a thug is what you want to be. This is what rap music still is today. After the Mike Brown incident happened, I called him a thug, and I was called out by multiple posters. One posted an image from American History X, as if I was a skinhead who fantasized about curb stomping niggas. Well, I don't. Mike Brown earned his bullets for attacking a cop. He earned his World's Dumbest Criminal award for walking down the middle of the street with stolen merchandise. What kind of thug is that stupid? I called Mike Brown a thug, but I take that back. That would actually be an insult to all the real not so stupid thugs out there. Mike Brown is a clown, not a thug. People burning down stores and calling for the city to be burned down though? Those are thugs. Black people protesting in the street but not burning the city down? These people are not thugs and should not be labelled thugs, unless they are gang members or something. The ones burning shit down were the one's being labelled thugs. Racists might call all black protesters thugs, but that is to be expected. They are racists afterall.
You can't compare the militia members in the OP to the 12 year old that got shot. They mistook the toy gun for a real gun, and mistakes like that happen. Why don't we compare this story in the OP, to black protesters burning their city down? The black folks weren't shot for burning their city down, just like the white folks in the OP weren't shot for occupying the building. Why weren't the black people burning down the city labelled terrorists? They never were. Militias may not be labelled terrorists that often, but they are almost always labelled extremist by mainstream media. Labelling someone extremist is pretty darn close to labelling them terrorists.
I was going to say something PC, but you know what? Fuck those assholes.They brought men with guns and "peacefully" took over federal buildings. I won't shed a tear when men with guns "peacefully" escort them to prison.
They have been branded "Y'all Qaeda" by the media. Works for me.
The Mormon church has disavowed their actions
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-responds-to-inquiries-regarding-oregon-armed-occupation
QuoteWhile the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis. We are privileged to live in a nation where conflicts with government or private groups can â€" and should â€" be settled using peaceful means, according to the laws of the land.
Stupid they aren't. They disavowed Cliven Bundy as well.
The Bundy brothers wanted more than their allotted 15 minutes of fame. Surround them and wait them out. Cut power, water and sewer. But no, they will not be treated like the Black cop who defected from the LAPD bigot crowd and was burned to death trapped in someone's cabin. On the other hand, maybe these guys aren't as dangerous as the SLA boys who were trapped in that house in LA ... which also was burned. Basically these guys are lucky the LAPD isn't involved ... or the ATF guys. Otherwise we would have a Branch Bundian situation on our hands ;-(
Like I said in the OP, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Ol' Clive raised his boys RIGHT. I'm Still waiting for Sarah Palin to chime in. I'm pretty sure the Republican candidates are all watching the media to see which way the wind blows right wing wise before they open their blow holes and start opining on the state of white suppression from our Muslim president.
I like the part in the title of this thread, "For Some Reason Or Other." The Cliven boys are at it again. Who knows about what this time?
Quote from: SGOS on January 04, 2016, 09:49:21 PM
I like the part in the title of this thread, "For Some Reason Or Other." The Cliven boys are at it again. Who knows about what this time?
Same as the Dominionists hiding out in the Big Bend area of Texas years ago (you hearing me, Ted Cruz's daddy?).
Quote from: stromboli on January 04, 2016, 05:22:00 PM
They have been branded "Y'all Qaeda" by the media. Works for me.
I've also encountered #YeeHawd
How's "taking back our country" doing for you?
One federal building at a time. There was a time when I might have sympathized with these clowns. Scary.
Quote from: stromboli on January 05, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
One federal building at a time. There was a time when I might have sympathized with these clowns. Scary.
Same here ... used to be sympathetic. Now I am just empathetic with stupid people, I no longer try to be one ;-)
I can't remember a time when I could emphasize with these sorts. I moved from the many square miles of concrete and pavement in Chicago, and when I landed in Montana at the age of 17, I realized the importance that natural land would have in my life. It seemed like there was enough to go around for everyone. Of course, the logging and mining industries were busy hacking away, but still far from attaining their later destructive capabilities as bull dozers got bigger and more powerful, and sawyers were replaced by growling feller bunchers that could lay waste to 100 acres in day. In a few years, I realized the developmental types wanted it all. Sharing wealth, be it dollars or mountains was not in their psychological constitutions. They could not be happy until they got it all. That was back then. Now the conservationists are reduced to squabbling with the extraction industries over the last few patches of rocks and ice, and those fuckers still want more.
And the Federal Government, through the use of the Department of Agriculture, didn't stop providing for corporate needs until the public began to scream and newspapers started exposing various scandals from magical book keeping, lying, shoddy silva culture, environmental hazards, deception, and the excessive costs of road building needed to get out the cut, mostly at taxpayer's expense. The timber industry was finally reigned in for various reasons, one being that the government decided it could no longer afford the financial burden of giving the forests away.
There were other reasons too, but the financial one sticks with me, because as the timber industry started to shrink, the Forest Service began putting the logging roads to sleep (enough roads to reach to the moon and back), where the financial costs of building them were originally justified with the excuse that they would all be there 100 years later for the second round of cutting. Suddenly, Congress was taking the roads out because the maintenance costs were too high to keep up an unused road for 100 years, which was the exact opposite of the Government and corporate propaganda used to sell the project to begin with. That was the last reason given by the government to explain the end of the glorious era of rape and scrape on the National Forests. It surprised me to hear it so much that I'll remember the financial explanation longer than simpler reasons for conservation like providing a place where people can go to restore their sanity.
Basically, we spoiled the land grabber types with a kind of welfare. Now they are offended that they can't have whatever they want, and they end up exposing themselves as childish, but still old enough to be packing guns. To me, this behavior seems evil, and the wanton destruction is actually glorified by one of Wall Street's buzz phrases from a few years back: "Greed is Good!" Sorry, I have no empathy for these people.
Quote from: stromboli on January 05, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
One federal building at a time. There was a time when I might have sympathized with these clowns. Scary.
You were young and foolish. In some places, old means wiser. Here, if you're old means, you're off the radar. Why plastic surgeons make a pile of money.
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 06, 2016, 07:38:00 AM
You were young and foolish. In some places, old means wiser. Here, if you're old means, you're off the radar. Why plastic surgeons make a pile of money.
I happen to know that plastic surgeons as a rule avoid plastic surgery. My thought for the day.
Quote from: stromboli on January 06, 2016, 09:45:04 AM
I happen to know that plastic surgeons as a rule avoid plastic surgery. My thought for the day.
Only because when you're rich, you can afford the luxury of being "old and ugly"...
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 06, 2016, 10:09:40 AM
Only because when you're rich, you can afford the luxury of being "old and ugly"...
True. Just look at Sheldon Adelson or the Koch brothers.
New development:
QuoteA local judge in Oregon has raised the prospect of making the armed militia occupying a federal wildlife refuge pay as much as $75,000 a day for the toll the standoff is costing the rural county.
Harney County judge Steve Grasty, a vocal critic of the militia, estimates that the armed occupation led by cattle rancher Ammon Bundy cost the community roughly $60,000 to $75,000 each day of the first week of the occupation.
Grasty, an administrative judge, proposed making Bundy and his associates pay the expenses at a community meeting on Monday night in Burns, the closest town to the ongoing occupation of the Malheur national wildlife refuge.
It’s been 10 days since Bundy and a group of out-of-state militiamen stormed the federal wildlife sanctuary headquarters to protest the government’s land regulations and the imprisonment of two Harney County ranchers in an arson case.
Read more at: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/oregon-militia-judge-cost-75000-per-week-malheur-refuge
Quote from: josephpalazzo on January 13, 2016, 09:37:53 AM
New development:
Read more at: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/oregon-militia-judge-cost-75000-per-week-malheur-refuge
Of course, they will never pay any of this. Their strategy is to defy, rather than comply. It's an interesting gesture, however. It helps people understand that that this little party isn't just a sideshow. It's costing real people real money, and this nonsense needs to stop. I'm so far from popular opinion that there is no worry that anything unfortunate will happen to these nice people, so I'll just speak my mind. The Feds should storm the compound, guns ablaze, and incarcerate any survivors.
They are not going to go in guns ablaze, or at least not any time soon. They are going to milk this for all they can, because all this news coverage is doing a great job demonizing militias and the second amendment. I think what this group did is dumb just like everyone else does, but I don't think you need to go in guns ablaze. Wait it out and many of them will probably give up. They're out in the middle of nowhere, so they're not really a threat to anyone but police right now, and they are only going to fire upon police if they are fired upon first. There's no need to try to bring this to a swift conclusion for the safety of the public or anything like that.
FBI agents were caught by the Harney County Fire Chief, posing as militia and harassing people in town, causing the Fire Chief to resign. The government is doing all they can right now to demonize the second amendment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6m7x3QDAg
Spoil sport.
At least they're just occupying a building, instead of what was done in Oklahoma.
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 15, 2016, 07:05:45 PM
At least they're just occupying a building, instead of what was done in Oklahoma.
That comes next, if they don't get what they want. Unless a false flag FBI event beats them too it. I think the IRS should be used, purely politically. All the IRS rules were put in place by Congress, which is purely political anyway. Eminent domain everything they own. And the SCOTUS has ruled that if Congress makes a tax, even if they don't call it a tax, Congress has unlimited leeway. So tax the shit out of them. Both sides are on the Devil's side.
On NPR today they said this has become a big boon for the town. The hotels are full of federal agents and reporters and the restaurants are busy. It's usually dead this time of year.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on January 15, 2016, 09:34:33 PM
On NPR today they said this has become a big boon for the town. The hotels are full of federal agents and reporters and the restaurants are busy. It's usually dead this time of year.
They drummed the whole thing up to make money.
(http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users16/chillidog2/default/doh-homer-simpson-doh--large-msg-123569393438.jpg)
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on January 15, 2016, 09:34:33 PM
On NPR today they said this has become a big boon for the town. The hotels are full of federal agents and reporters and the restaurants are busy. It's usually dead this time of year.
After that comes gambling and prostitution...
Waiting for an accidental discharge of a firearm and some clown getting injured or killed.