Hi

[Mike Cl]

You have to listen to Campbell carefully.  I think he gets rather over-excited in combining various myths and cultural beliefs. Don't get me wrong; he has some interesting ideas.  But he lacks specificity, and details are not his "thing". 

I'll admit that his personality sets me off a bit.  But even when I just read him, I don't find a lot of rigorous thought there.  Enthusiastic thought, to be sure and we need that sometimes.  But not much I would consider "scientific".

Yeah, he was lacking in the scientific area.  But I read him for his cultural insights, not science.  The purpose of life is life is not scientific.  Nor is his insistence of following one's bliss.  But I still understood what he was driving at and I agree with him.  So, you see, I did not go to him for science.  But his two philosophical statements makes sense to me, so I remember them.  They sort of match the type of board game I like--simple rules (like chess), but great depth when trying to play it.  So, Campbell still has a place on my bookshelf.

[Arik]

Campbell wrote a lot.  Was mostly interested Native Americans.  His psychology came from Jung, same as Jordan Peterson.

There isn't much people here would call scientific.  Ohm's law.  Arithmetic.  Arik is using a Medieval definition of science, still current in S Asian culture.

If I look in some dictionaries for the meaning of the word "science" it usually say that the science is knowledge about the universe or the natural world.

That I find a very very simplistic answer.
Why knowledge must be confined to the universe and what on earth it means to the natural world?
What the natural world suppose to be?

Again and again I see that this natural world according to strange beliefs is confined to this universe made of matter.
What about the natural world that is not made of matter?

Where is the evidence that there is not a dimension that is not made of matter?

I really do not bother too much whether my idea of science come from here or there.
What is important to me is whether science deliver the goods or not in whichever way a person is interested into.

[Arik]

there is only nature--no such thing as supernatural or unnatural.  There is only material--so such thing as unmaterial.  Ideas are not visible yet we know they come from our material brains.  Which come from nature.  Humans are limited in their senses.  Other animals are also limited in their senses, yet they can sense different things than humans can.  (dog whistles, infrared and a host of other things, for example)  Simply because we cannot see infrared does not make them unnatural.  All that is, is natural.  Unnatural is simply fantasy or fairy tale stuff---wishful thinking. 

What is life?  I has not been defined precisely yet.  Is fire alive?  Are virus'?  Big debate.  But because I cannot define it I do know that I am alive and I know what my purpose is.  As Joseph Campbell suggested--the purpose of life is life.  And that is why life can be found in almost every layer of this planet--in ice, in boiling water and chemicals, in places where we did not even know there were places in days gone past.

I suppose that you must have solid evidence that ideas ...........come from our material brains..........

Ok, let us see this evidence.

[Mike Cl]

I suppose that you must have solid evidence that ideas ...........come from our material brains..........

Ok, let us see this evidence.

You are not only stupid, you like to roll in it like a rat rolling in shit.  Unless your 'evidence' is made up of only wishful and fanciful thinking, you won't consider it. 

I really would like to know how you got that picture of me waiting for a response from you with any evidence at all that your beliefs are more than that--beliefs!  But I'm sure that my old bones will be just dust before you attempt to supply any such evidence.

[Baruch]

Ha, that picture is just a computer user who failed to allow a push of the latest OS/app patch from Communist Microsoft or Nazi Apple.  Don't cooperate, and we will strangle your access speed ... there is no Net Neutrality!

[Arik]

You are not only stupid, you like to roll in it like a rat rolling in shit.  Unless your 'evidence' is made up of only wishful and fanciful thinking, you won't consider it. 

I really would like to know how you got that picture of me waiting for a response from you with any evidence at all that your beliefs are more than that--beliefs!  But I'm sure that my old bones will be just dust before you attempt to supply any such evidence.

I do apologize for the picture but eh, how many times atheists ask theists for evidence after all?

Wouldn't be fair that also atheists stop asking for evidence for a moment and instead start producing their own evidence for their own beliefs?

[Baruch]

I do apologize for the picture but eh, how many times atheists ask theists for evidence after all?

Wouldn't be fair that also atheists stop asking for evidence for a moment and instead start producing their own evidence for their own beliefs?

The biggest gambit in the evidence business isn't what evidence you produce, but what evidence you ignore.

[aitm]

I close my eyes.

I can hear the sound of the universe.

We call it imagination.....but hey..whatever bloviates your nads man.

[aitm]

For a materialist a stone stay stone for ever, a plant born plant and die plant with no chance to evolve to animal, human and God and so on.
That is not how the system works.
Evolution is all about changes and so devolution which is the opposite of evolution.

Once you understand that ......

Hoo-boy....being lectured by someone who says evolution is kinda proven false by miniature gods. K

[Baruch]

We call it imagination.....but hey..whatever bloviates your nads man.

Nihilist artists hate ... imagination?

[Arik]

Hoo-boy....being lectured by someone who says evolution is kinda proven false by miniature gods. K

Actually I never said that Darwin evolution is wrong.

I instead said that Darwin evolution is related to physical changes due mainly to survival.

The chap only studied external changes or body changes and that is quite ok. for me.

What I do not agree is not about Darwin work.
What I do not agree instead is the way that materialists believe in Darwin evolution as it is all there is to know considering that Darwin for his own personal reasons did not studied how consciousness affect changes which I reckon that these changes are much more important than external changes.

While external changes in lower form of life are trigger by mother nature external changes in humans are trigger by consciousness.
That is a big problem for materialists that only care about external changes and neglect what is most important.   

[Baruch]

An analogy that applies to anything in anthropology.  There is a difference between those who study chess playing, and those who play chess.  Intellectuals fit the first category.  So what is the difference in quality of insight, that is obtained from the first group vs second group?  I fit into the second group.

[aitm]

"gather around the table children, I am Pastor Arik, today we are going to witness Gods power. Here is a candle and we are going to sit here and pray  and ask God to make the candle flicker.......now everyone pray and watch closely..................

...............


...............


okay, it's a bit hot in here, Ima gonna open up this window a little......

...............



........... HEY DID YOU SEE IT FLICKER? THAT IS THE POWER OF PRAYER AND THE POWER OF GOD.......let's all pray.....

[Arik]

An analogy that applies to anything in anthropology.  There is a difference between those who study chess playing, and those who play chess.  Intellectuals fit the first category.  So what is the difference in quality of insight, that is obtained from the first group vs second group?  I fit into the second group.

Surprise, surprise Baruch because also my spiritual teacher did make a similar example.

Two chaps walk and walk in search of something that would put an end to their trouble.
After sometime they see a mango tree full of ripe and beautiful mangoes.

One chap start looking and analyze the tree and his branches and his leaves and the number of the fruit in it while the other chap start straight away to pick up the mangoes and eat them.

Now you tell me........who is the smarter and more intelligent?

[Baruch]

Intellectuals have their uses.  Just like lawyers and doctors.  Because of social cachet, many people want to join the professional class, but someone has to pick the mangoes.