Afterlife possible from secular POV

[aitm]

Oh, goddammit, Aitm, I didn't read your post before I asked about animals. GMTA and all that, I spose.

Admit it, you love me and want me.

[aitm]

I'll venture that this does apply to thinking animals such as chimpanzees. To a mosquito or a worm with no cerebral matter? Probably not.

ah, an elitist, how quaint.

[Ace101]

ah, an elitist, how quaint.

That's not elitism, that's my understanding of science - from what I can tell consciousness is dependent on having cerebral brain functions. A single-celled organism might be a form of 'life' but it's not 'alive' in the since that a mammal is - that's why animals (even non human animals) have some rights, but tiny organisms, plants, etc don't.

[Mike Cl]

That's not elitism, that's my understanding of science - from what I can tell consciousness is dependent on having cerebral brain functions. A single-celled organism might be a form of 'life' but it's not 'alive' in the since that a mammal is - that's why animals (even non human animals) have some rights, but tiny organisms, plants, etc don't.

I don't think science knows enough about consciousness yet to make any hard and fast claims.  I saw an experiment in which three sets of hot house plants were used as subjects.  One group was the control group and had nothing done to them other than water and feed.  The second group had classical music played all the time.  The third had a recorded person yelling at them, calling them names and just being loud and obnoxious.  The Music plants grew best, the control group was second, and the abused plants were stunted.  Do plants have a consciousness? 

[aitm]

from what I can tell consciousness is dependent on having cerebral brain functions.

so it is your opinion that it is permissible to torture or otherwise torment lesser creatures due to your "higher consciousness"? Goodness, you certainly are showing how that works.

[Ace101]

so it is your opinion that it is permissible to torture or otherwise torment lesser creatures due to your "higher consciousness"? Goodness, you certainly are showing how that works.

Squashing a mosquito isn't a crime, but abusing an animal like a dog is.

From what I can tell we make the distinction based on how much 'awareness' the creature has (ex. more awareness means more awareness of the pain, plus higher level animals contribute more than insects, etc) - rather than the mere fact that "it's alive".

[aitm]

Sure, it is obvious by your previous posts that you think "something" put us in our own little bodies because golly gee, otherwise we would be our brother! Holy Cow!

Please…if god put you in your little body then he also put the little girl in the body with spin bifada and she lived in absolutely hell for her ten years before she finally withered away and died…..great lesson in morality there, not much in the little girls consciousness that we could tell.

[sdelsolray]

Squashing a mosquito isn't a crime, but abusing an animal like a dog is.
...

And from where did you obtain these morals?

[stromboli]

But take 2 identical twins with identical brains - each has a separate consciousness despite idential brains - so if you had an identical twin, how could you explain why you were "born in your body" instead of your brother's? And vice versa.

That can't be explained away that easily. I've heard that consciousness is a concept that exists on a 'quantum level', so I believe the concept transcends mere individual brains.

Sure you may not 'float out of your body' when you die, but how do you know you won't take on the 1st person consciousness of another physical body in another life (or that you haven't already done so in 'past lives')?

Conjecture and nothing more.

[Ace101]

Sure, it is obvious by your previous posts that you think "something" put us in our own little bodies because golly gee, otherwise we would be our brother! Holy Cow!

There's obviously a reason why that can't be written off as simple brain activity, since that only explains consciousness in general.

Please…if god put you in your little body then he also put the little girl in the body with spin bifada and she lived in absolutely hell for her ten years before she finally withered away and died…..

great lesson in morality there, not much in the little girls consciousness that we could tell.

Nope, the universe is like a fine tuned machine - it's impossible for God to intervene with nature - all that occurs in nature is the result of direct cause and effect, not divine intervention.

[PickelledEggs]

Slightly related question, Ace:

How often do you crap and fart?

[aitm]

all that occurs in nature is the result of direct cause and effect,

indeed, only on this planet we call it "teaching"

[Ace101]

indeed, only on this planet we call it "teaching"

Which is why worms instinctively engage in their behavior - despite not having any cerebral matter what so ever, therefore no ability to "learn" at all.

[Solitary]

But take 2 identical twins with identical brains - each has a separate consciousness despite idential brains - so if you had an identical twin, how could you explain why you were "born in your body" instead of your brother's? And vice versa.

That can't be explained away that easily. I've heard that consciousness is a concept that exists on a 'quantum level', so I believe the concept transcends mere individual brains.

Sure you may not 'float out of your body' when you die, but how do you know you won't take on the 1st person consciousness of another physical body in another life (or that you haven't already done so in 'past lives')?

Did you even read what I wrote? They have separate brains and bodies. First of all there is no such thing as identical twins. Quantum level?  Are you a Deepak Chopra fan?  Solitary

[Ace101]

Did you even read what I wrote? They have separate brains and bodies. First of all there is no such thing as identical twins. Quantum level?  Are you a Deepak Chopra fan?  Solitary

http://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/discovery-of-quantum-vibrations-in-microtubules-inside-brain-neurons-corroborates-controversial-20-year-old-theory-of-consciousness