Wagner's second plane landed safely.  So maybe he survived. 

If he didn't die, there will likely be a second march on Moscow in the cards.  Either way, from Ukraine's perspective, it's a win.

Edit - some of the Wagner people are damn near revolting (they stink on ice), so there may be another run on Moscow no matter what happened.

Wagner forces are departing Belarus and headed towards Russia

🔥🍿

It could also be a face-saving fake. Putler wouldn't kill an old friend and some Wagner staff in such an obvious manner, would he, LOL?

Quote from: Cassia on August 24, 2023, 06:59:45 AMIt could also be a face-saving fake. Putler wouldn't kill an old friend and some Wagner staff in such an obvious manner, would he, LOL?

He would if he thought he could get away with it.  It's unknown if a leaderless Wagner would be much of a threat.

Ukrainian forces launched a daring amphibious raid in Crimea (I always wondered why the Russians mined the coast - apparently, this is why)

They reportedly caused further damage to Russian air defense, exaccerbating the attrition already caused by drones, which bagged a s-400 yesterday.

The Russians had formidable air defenses over Crimea, but piece by piece, they are being dismantled - a strategy also employed against the Black Sea fleet remnants, Russian logistics, and Russian infantry.  Put enough pressure and sooner or later, something will break.

Honestly, when it was reported a group called Wagner was uprising (?), short after (5 days) that the news of Prigozhin sitting down with Putin for an arrangement sounded so ridiculous to me, I had 'a something's wrong with this' moment back then. Well, what do I know? But then in terms of basic rationality, would anyone do such a thing under these circumstances? Putin's reputation is made on taking revenge for any kind of betrayal aside for the general murders and assassinations of all kinds he's been committing for yeeaars now. I mean, you don't even need to be Putin. Anyone in Putin's place and position would first think to kill him just for punishment as an example, or kill him for 'He tried it once, why not again?'.

How is that a mercenary soldier who has served 9 years of sentence in Soviet prison; referred himself as 'Putin's butcher' (he was a caterer before Putin picked him up and how he met & got close to Kremlin); apparently killed in his name in peace time and did a tons of dirty work, cannot calculate this? Or why would he think he would be an exception? You probably know that Prigozhin has also founded-financed a troll farm to intervene 2016 US elections (2 years after he's founded Wagner), admitted by himself in 2022. (And many suspects Russia had done the similar for the election where I live, multiple times.)

I don't know. Stinks bad. Or may be just too simple, so looks confusing from afar.

It feels like Wagner was an idiot. He cuts through Russia's defenses like butter, but right at the finish line, he has second thoughts? Now the idiot has been assassinated. Like, what did he think was going to happen? If you're going to lead a coup, commit to it. You can't just do half a coup.

Quote from: Blackleaf on August 25, 2023, 02:10:41 AMIt feels like Wagner was an idiot. He cuts through Russia's defenses like butter, but right at the finish line, he has second thoughts? Now the idiot has been assassinated. Like, what did he think was going to happen? If you're going to lead a coup, commit to it. You can't just do half a coup.

Yeah, lol, you put it better than me. But if he was such an idiot, how the hell did he come that far?

Wagner troops 'plotting march to Russia to avenge leader's death'

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/wagner-troops-plotting-march-russia-101146813.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEI_y0VfSnZBCjKvjdc5I4fuR4XQUFhd4HzAj6Ppv-Zp0-T0eU4ozbQLK1JpOwd9blAd_BKkmajoiJBAibeZ-mcnLcyvmR9SF8zybI7Fi-56x9bwg_ez4I3MwXfjTz40qd5rt13TmsPrImjdaUp9OHJsC5mzj20JRGRkEPaflFre&guccounter=2

And then they will sit down with Putler about their demands?

Ukrainian forces released a video where they had already captured a Russian trench and two Russian infantry run towards the trench, apparently believing it was still theirs (bad comms?).  One was gunned down and the other captured with quite a surprised look on his face.

Compared to his comrade (and the Russian troops previously manning the trench), he was lucky as hell.

On Telegram, there's footage of the Russians unloading an IS-8 tank, presumably to be sent into combat.

These tanks were built just after WWII and obviously are horribly antiquated and underperforming compared to T-62s and T-72s, let alone relatively modern western tanks.  This stuff is only moderately better than actual WWII tanks like the T-34.

According to Ukrainian sources, about 60-70% of their sea drones are destroyed before they hit the target.

This seems bad, but remember that Ukraine has many more drones than Russia has ships, and they are much, much cheaper to produce.

So basically, Ukraine can send 10 drones after a target and score 3-4 direct hits on average.  That's enough to cause severe damage, probably destroy just about anything.  The Russian military supply vessel Sig was hit by just one drone and that created an enormous hole.  Any additional hits would've probably destroyed it.

Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 25, 2023, 02:16:19 AMYeah, lol, you put it better than me. But if he was such an idiot, how the hell did he come that far?

My guess? Putin outclassed Wagner in his astounding incompetence.

Wagner cemetary levelled

One Wagner soldier is distraught that Russia would treat its heroes this way.

Newsflash: Wagner was never anything more than disposable pawns.

The second transport ship leaves Ukrainian port, follows grain corridor

The Primus, a bulk carrier, had been docked at Odessa port since the invasion began.  Now, it is sailing towards Bulgaria under a Liberian flag.