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A justifiable murder?

Started by gussy, February 14, 2013, 09:44:27 PM

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buttfinger

15 years driving experience is all I need.  IDGAF if you agree with me or not.

Plu

Is the road safe for people with 1 month of driving experience as well? It's kinda useless if it's safe for you and everyone else gets themselves killed.

Jmpty

Quote from: "buttfinger"15 years driving experience is all I need.  IDGAF if you agree with me or not.

You may learn that talking out of your ass is frowned upon here.

•Speed was a factor in 30 percent (12,477) of all traffic fatalities in 1998, second only to alcohol (39 percent) as a cause of fatal crashes.
 •(National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, or NHTSA, 1999)
 •In 1998, 40,000 people were critically injured in speeding-related crashes, 72,000 were moderately injured and 599,000 received minor injuries. (NHTSA, 1999)
 •The economic cost to society of speeding-related crashes is estimated at $27.7 billion per year. (NHTSA, 1999)
 •Crash forces on impact double with every 10 mile per hour increase in speed above 50 miles per hour. As crash forces increase, so does one�s chances of being killed or seriously injured in a crash. (NHTSA, 1995)
 •Young drivers (under 30 years old) are more likely to speed than other drivers. Of all drivers involved in fatal crashes, young males are most likely to speed. The relative proportion of speeding-related fatal crashes decreases with increasing driver age. (NHTSA, 1999)
 •Alcohol involvement and speeding often go hand-in-hand. In 1998, 43 percent of drivers with a 0.10 BAC or higher who were involved in fatal crashes were speeding, compared with 14 percent of the sober (0.00 BAC) drivers in fatal crashes. (NHTSA, 1999)
???  ??

buttfinger

Speed is a factor in 100% of traffic accidents, as traffic accidents always involve a moving vehicle.  The metric is meaningless.  The last one is actually laughable, as it admits alcohol was the causal factor.

buttfinger

Quote from: "Plu"Is the road safe for people with 1 month of driving experience as well? It's kinda useless if it's safe for you and everyone else gets themselves killed.
The road is no more or less safe for anyone on it, regardless of experience, or even if they're the vehicle's operator.

Colanth

Butt, more than your 15 years of actually investigating accidents says that if you ever have a clue about motor vehicle accidents, it'll be your first one.  The claim that about 1/3 of accidents were caused by speeding sounds about right.  (Depending on conditions, 30mph in a 55mph zone could be excessive - something your 15 years of experience probably hasn't taught you yet.)
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

buttfinger

Yeah, gotta disagree.  Law enforcement's job is to reinforce the laws that they're enforcing.  This is why we blame the cell phone rather than the idiot who can't put it down for a second to change lanes.  A guy's driving like an asshole?  Can we blame speed rather than the asshole who's driving?  Then SPEED did it!

PapaSmurf34

Quote from: "SilentFutility"
Quote from: "PapaSmurf34"Not justifiable at all. Obviously the father could not have known what the BAC of the driver was when he shot him. For all the father knew the man could have been a diabetic and had a low blood sugar which can imitate the effects of being drunk. The father was in a fit of rage and although I sympathize with him and can see why he would have done it he was not justified, at least in any legal sense, in shooting the driver.
In which case you should absolutely not drive. If you are diabetic and are halfway towards a diabetic coma your ability to drive is definitely impaired. If you have any medical condition which has the same symptoms of drunkenness you are not fit to drive and by doing so you are being irresponsible and risking not only your own life, but the lives of others around you.

But the onset of symptoms of low blood sugar can in some cases be very rapid. The driver in question could have been feeling fine when he got behind the wheel and then had a sudden onset of hypoglycemia. I could sit here and talk more about diabtetes and hypoglysemia but that wasn't my point. My point was at the time of the shooting the father did not have all the facts and couldn't have known the driver's BAC. He was not justified legally in what he did. Trust me my sympathies are with the man who lost two children and not with the drunk driver. I hate when people drive drunk and think it is a very serious crime that should have harsher penalties than it already has, but that doesn't mean the father was justified in shooting the driver and he should be convicted for the crime he commited.

PapaSmurf34

Quote from: "SilentFutility"
Quote from: "PapaSmurf34"Not justifiable at all. Obviously the father could not have known what the BAC of the driver was when he shot him. For all the father knew the man could have been a diabetic and had a low blood sugar which can imitate the effects of being drunk. The father was in a fit of rage and although I sympathize with him and can see why he would have done it he was not justified, at least in any legal sense, in shooting the driver.
In which case you should absolutely not drive. If you are diabetic and are halfway towards a diabetic coma your ability to drive is definitely impaired. If you have any medical condition which has the same symptoms of drunkenness you are not fit to drive and by doing so you are being irresponsible and risking not only your own life, but the lives of others around you.

But the onset of symptoms of low blood sugar can in some cases be very rapid. The driver in question could have been feeling fine when he got behind the wheel and then had a sudden onset of hypoglycemia. I could sit here and talk more about diabtetes and hypoglysemia but that wasn't my point. My point was at the time of the shooting the father did not have all the facts and couldn't have known the driver's BAC. He was not justified legally in what he did. Trust me my sympathies are with the man who lost two children and not with the drunk driver. I hate when people drive drunk and think it is a very serious crime that should have harsher penalties than it already has, but that doesn't mean the father was justified in shooting the driver and he should be convicted for the crime he commited.

ThePilgrim101

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Bobby_Ouroborus"Vigilantism is a breakdown of the social order...no good can come of it.
Social order is the cradle of tyranny and unilateral injustice.

Social order is what allows me to go to work in the mornings with the expectation that others won't harm me =/

We, as humans, came together because we all agreed harming each other was not in each others best interests. We then thought further and decided that, for our society, failure to abide by our constructs would require punishment equal to the crime that did not violate our own rules unless necessary. Barakas took revenge, not justice.

What's that saying? "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
Quote from: \"azmhyr\"
Quote from: \"quoting\"New Testament doesn\'t Justify the banning of gays from anywhere.
Well, the old testament permabans them from life tho.

buttfinger

Quote from: "ThePilgrim101"Social order is what allows me to go to work in the mornings with the expectation that others won't harm me =/
It's also what allows a gang of blue-clad thugs to rob you of your earthly possessions for the ungodly crime of growing poppies.

Plu

Quote from: "buttfinger"
Quote from: "Plu"Is the road safe for people with 1 month of driving experience as well? It's kinda useless if it's safe for you and everyone else gets themselves killed.
The road is no more or less safe for anyone on it, regardless of experience, or even if they're the vehicle's operator.

This just sounds so stupid it makes me think you are joking. The road doesn't become any less safe if people drive faster? Are you serious?

buttfinger

Quote from: "Plu"This just sounds so stupid it makes me think you are joking. The road doesn't become any less safe if people drive faster? Are you serious?
Reread what I wrote, this time with your reading comprehension glasses on.  that post says "regardless of experience" not "regardless of speed".  I share the same traffic as people with 1/2, 1/3, or even less experience than myself, as well as with people who have twice as much driving experience or more.  I have no control over the skill level of other drivers.  Experience doesn't negate dangers, it merely gives me the ability to address how they affect my own vehicle.  The road is no more safe for me than it is for a new driver, I'm just better at avoiding the dangers of it.

buttfinger

Quote from: "drunkenshoe"
Quote from: "Plu"
QuoteThe thing is though, driving drunk isn't a mistake. It is a decision that your convienience of getting where you want to go easily without having to walk, take a taxi or take public transport is more important than the lives of everybody you're endangering by driving drunk/high. It is an abhorrent thing to do and it isn't an accident, it is simply just not caring that you're risking killing someone's wife/brother/son/girlfriend/daughter so that you can get home more quickly.

This. So much.

Agreed.
And the circle-jerk begins.

Plu

You seem to be channeling a large amount of "asshole" there.