venio, video, vinco. (I come, I see, I conquer)

[Ecbarrowes]

The only things I can be absolutely certain of is that I exist, and I perceive.

These axioms must have corollaries. Since you do exist (granted), and you do perceive (granted), therefore you must have perceptions. What are they?

[Mr.Obvious]

Your question is exactly apropos. Being objective about our own proclivities is a masterclass that we are all trying to graduate from. It is so seductive to believe that we are right about a thing. It is so convenient to realize that we just happen to be "right" about a thing (too convenient). Joseph Smith said, "by contrariness is the truth made known." In order to know if a thing is true, we must give it a fair trial, which includes giving all views their proper "day in court." If we only allow our favorite view its day in court, and deny opposing views the same privilege, it is a sign that we are blind. 

That's not really an answer to what i asked, now is it though?

You and i may agree we shouldn't believe things just because they feel intuital to us, or because we 'want' them to be true or because soemthing inside us tells us they are true, whether we believe that something to be divinely inspired, or not.

I think most on this forum would agree that is not a good way to come to understand the nature of reality. And that a sense of 'absolute certainty' of a thing, without any room for doubt or scepticism, can be a dangerous thing. (For intellectual honesty, if for nothing else.)

However, most on this forum wouldn't claim that we can receive such 'absolute certainty' through divine bestowment.
You do.
So. Again. The question: how do you differentiate in which is which.

I'm not asking for you to tell me we should all keep an open mind on what we may feel certain of.
I'm asking how you specifically can, with intellectual honesty, override that fine quality of doubt to uphold the absolute certainty you claim you can have. And how you discern in which cases it is valid, due to the divine nature of the endowed knowledge.

[Ecbarrowes]

Side note: My opinion of you has dropped considerably because you appear to prefer to use the King James translation of the bible, which is in an outdated version of the English language that no one ever speaks unless they're trying to sound all fruity when quoting the bible. Go on with your bad self. Just know that you sound fruity when you do it.


This really doesn't tell us much. It certainly doesn't answer my question. Saying that god is perfect is like saying god is blue. Lots of things are blue. What blue thing is god? Blueberries? Blueberries are actually purple, so that would make you a liar.

Perfection is a problematic concept in the first place. I'm something of a perfectionist, which often leads to frustration. I've learned to temper that with the realization that perfection is neither attainable nor desirable. Perfection has no use. I perfect being would not create because, being perfect, would have no need to create. Creating indicates a lack and a perfect being would have no lack and therefore would not. Perfection is inert... dead.

I recommend moving forward you abandon such childish and logically fraught concepts because they do nothing but weaken your case.

You must be a mormon, then. The goal of everyone becoming perfect gods in their own right is a latter-days saints concept. If it turns out you are not a part of that sect, you might want to do some thinking on the matter.

But this gives us a bit more meat to the discussion because you imply god is just a human being that has achieved perfection, which as I have previously stated is a nonsense concept and should be discarded. Another way of putting it is god has gained some form of power over the rest of us... like Donald Fuckface Trump.

As you can see, this is not something limited to or unique to god, so it's not very helpful in understanding what it is you are even talking about.

That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

If you read about an experiment in a scientific journal, that's just words on a page, until you decide to either believe it, or repeat the experiment. Arguing all day against it is vanity. If you're a serious investigator, you'll repeat the experiment.
It is thus: call out to 'the void,' "is any[God] there? If there is a God out there, please make yourself known to me." If you are sincere, you will be responded to.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

True that we are all flawed, but we can choose to better ourselves or wallow or worsen ourselves.

Ah, so you can choose not to be an obnoxious god botherer. Why don't you option that choice?

[Unbeliever]

These axioms must have corollaries. Since you do exist (granted), and you do perceive (granted), therefore you must have perceptions. What are they?

Sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell, and consciousness.

Consciousness is parts of my brain perceiving other parts of my brain.

[the_antithesis]

It is thus: call out to 'the void,' "is any[God] there? If there is a God out there, please make yourself known to me." If you are sincere, you will be responded to.

Your god is the Great Pumpkin?

Why didn't you just say so?

[Blackleaf]

If you read about an experiment in a scientific journal, that's just words on a page, until you decide to either believe it, or repeat the experiment. Arguing all day against it is vanity. If you're a serious investigator, you'll repeat the experiment.
It is thus: call out to 'the void,' "is any[God] there? If there is a God out there, please make yourself known to me." If you are sincere, you will be responded to.

I specifically stopped believing BECAUSE God failed to respond to me. I was working hard to serve him. I was in multiple ministries, sacrificing time, money, and free labor. I chose my field of study in college based on how I thought I would best serve God with my "gifts." Yet I saw no results. No one was coming to Jesus because of me. My plan for college was derailed when I was denied enrollment in the therapy program, although they dragged me along by letting me take some therapy classes while enrolled in general psychology. My parents were forcing me to change churches constantly, despite my wishes as an adult, causing me (someone who was homeschooled from pre-K to 12th grade) to lose my entire non-familial social circle and have to start over. Multiple. Times. I was confused and frustrated, and I prayed to God for guidance. As always, I got nothing. I even made it clear that if I didn't hear back from him, I was going to leave and never come back, because I was done serving an absent father. I still got nothing but silence. Turns out when you call out to the void, that's all you find. If you think you hear anything else, you're not calling out to the void; you're yelling in a cave, and that's your own echo you're hearing.

Also, I'll repeat my three questions, in case you missed them:

1. Do you believe that God has all the omni qualities often attributed to them? Omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence?

2. Do you believe that believers go to Heaven and that unbelievers go to Hell?

3. Do you believe that God wants everyone to go to Heaven, or to know him?

[Unbeliever]

If you expect to get any answers from Ecbarrowes, I think you're going to be disappointed.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Drive by pretentiousness.

[Blackleaf]

If you expect to get any answers from Ecbarrowes, I think you're going to be disappointed.

I try to give the benefit of the doubt to new people, as long as they don't give me reason to think they're a lost cause. I was like them once.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Congrats on making it to reality. I was never programmed so I'm a little less tolerant of utter bullshit than most.

[Ecbarrowes]

I specifically stopped believing BECAUSE God failed to respond to me. I was working hard to serve him. I was in multiple ministries, sacrificing time, money, and free labor. I chose my field of study in college based on how I thought I would best serve God with my "gifts." Yet I saw no results. No one was coming to Jesus because of me. My plan for college was derailed when I was denied enrollment in the therapy program, although they dragged me along by letting me take some therapy classes while enrolled in general psychology. My parents were forcing me to change churches constantly, despite my wishes as an adult, causing me (someone who was homeschooled from pre-K to 12th grade) to lose my entire non-familial social circle and have to start over. Multiple. Times. I was confused and frustrated, and I prayed to God for guidance. As always, I got nothing. I even made it clear that if I didn't hear back from him, I was going to leave and never come back, because I was done serving an absent father. I still got nothing but silence. Turns out when you call out to the void, that's all you find. If you think you hear anything else, you're not calling out to the void; you're yelling in a cave, and that's your own echo you're hearing.

Also, I'll repeat my three questions, in case you missed them:

1. Do you believe that God has all the omni qualities often attributed to them? Omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence?

2. Do you believe that believers go to Heaven and that unbelievers go to Hell?

3. Do you believe that God wants everyone to go to Heaven, or to know him?

In communicating with God, it is very useful to find a quiet time and space to look over the thoughts and feelings inside you. Inside your head, or soul, one can observe thoughts, feelings, and determine their origin (self, friends, family, etc.). When you encounter one that you don't know any human origin of, it could be from God, or the devil. Stuff from God generally brings peace, clarity, resolution, agrees with other things you know to be right. Things from the devil generally bring discord, darkness, contention, confusion, et al. Further examination can be profitable in order to address any doubts. Efforts bring about results. "Seek me diligently with all your heart and you will find me." This maxim requires that you give everything you can to open communication with God, and you will connect. When we ask God a question, we need to put all options on the table. That is, we need to be ready to accept the answer he gives, whatever it may be, trusting his wisdom. You told him that you're going to leave "ministering" unless he tells you otherwise. Perhaps he wanted you to leave a version of ministering where all the shots are called by your family, instead of by Him.

1. Yes, within conceivability.
2. Yes, accountability exists and God takes everything into account.
3. Definitely. He wants all his children to accept his offer.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"In communicating with God, it is very useful to find a quiet time and space to look over the thoughts and feelings inside you." And then wonder why you're wasting your time on fairies and leprechauns.

[aitm]

In my readings of the bable, albeit several years ago. I don't remember once where the devil, with all his machinations and evil doing, was responsible for a single death of a human. Certainly cannot say that about your almighty omniscience god. Makes one wonder who is really who.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In my readings of the bable, albeit several years ago. I don't remember once where the devil, with all his machinations and evil doing, was responsible for a single death of a human. Certainly cannot say that about your almighty omniscience god. Makes one wonder who is really who.

The Devil wants to punish people eternally, despite the obviously pending monotony of that shit. So he just lets them kill themselves and profits without risk of capital.