Hi

[Arik]

We do observe the universe from different directions.  What is this 'superior' that you clammer about???  What does that mean you.  Clearly, consciousness happens when the physical is arranged just so.  So, yes, consciousness is material based--as is all else.  There is no meaning in the universe.  It does not care about you in one way or another.  There is no purpose to the universe, it just is.  You create whatever meaning the universe has and only for you. 

Infinitely superior--what does than mean?  You love to cast about and label things as superior or inferior--to what?  To you, I guess.  And remember, I don't 'believe' in anything.  I think it to be true--or not.  That is evidence based, not wishful believing or faith.

Turning guesses into strong beliefs may be quite dangerous if these guesses will be proven wrong.

That is bizarre Mike.
Most Atheists say that science (physical science) is the way to go but since when science say that consciousness is material based?
Why are you turning your guess into a strong belief which has zero to do with science?

Doesn't the reality tell you that a vehicle which is pure matter can not possibly create the driver and the other way around is the truth?
Where did you get the knowledge that a body-brain create the consciousness?

[Arik]

I sure hope you are saying that tongue in cheek......although as much as the rest of your stuff is bat shit crazy one never knows.

This is exactly what the masses were saying to those few that explain them that the planet earth is not flat and is not the center of the universe.

By saying this I feel like my time in here may be almost over although I still hope I will not be kicked out once more from a forum.

[Baruch]

This is exactly what the masses were saying to those few that explain them that the planet earth is not flat and is not the center of the universe.

By saying this I feel like my time in here may be almost over although I still hope I will not be kicked out once more from a forum.

Kicked out?  What do you think this is?  Twitter?  Facebook? ;-)

I have enjoyed reading your posts.

Materialism is an epistemological fundamentalism just as dogmatic as any Christian fundamentalism, and most here are true believers.

[Arik]

Kicked out?  What do you think this is?  Twitter?  Facebook? ;-)

I have enjoyed reading your posts.

Materialism is an epistemological fundamentalism just as dogmatic as any Christian fundamentalism, and most here are true believers.

I do appreciate brother.

[Blackleaf]

I find rather difficult to see people that say that matter is all there is.

Even zombies use a tiny bit of consciousness to walk to perceive some reality and to cause trouble.
Are you telling me that is the matter that make you think, eat, writing posts and all the rest?

Are you serious Mike?

Zombies...? As in, the undead fictional monsters with little to no consciousness and a taste for flesh? Are you seriously using fiction to justify your fiction? OMFG.

[Baruch]

Zombies...? As in, the undead fictional monsters with little to no consciousness and a taste for flesh? Are you seriously using fiction to justify your fiction? OMFG.

He may mean the academic zombie model regarding consciousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

A logically consistent materialist has to embrace this model.  We are just improved versions of fiberglass manikins.

[Mike Cl]

I find rather difficult to see people that say that matter is all there is.

Even zombies use a tiny bit of consciousness to walk to perceive some reality and to cause trouble.
Are you telling me that is the matter that make you think, eat, writing posts and all the rest?

Are you serious Mike?

Totally serious.  Zombies?  You keep pushing fictions as being real.  Do you believe in the boogy man too???

We are a skin sack filled with chemicals and electrical charges animate us.  If you want to screw with a persons personality, screw with his chemical makeup.   Everything you ingest turns into chemicals or is rejected from out bodies.  All drugs are chemicals. 

Once again, I ask you to provide me with any (ANY) evidence that there is other than the material world.  I know you can't--but give it a good shot, eh????

[Hydra009]

science (physical science)

As opposed to...?

[Mike Cl]

This is exactly what the masses were saying to those few that explain them that the planet earth is not flat and is not the center of the universe.

By saying this I feel like my time in here may be almost over although I still hope I will not be kicked out once more from a forum.

????  You do seem to make about as much sense as Baruch usually does.  And you still have not offered us any evidence for your views; only personal observations.  And why would you get kicked out?  You are a pretty mild theist compared to many who pass through here.

[aitm]

By saying this I feel like my time in here may be almost over

Hoping thats a promise not a challenge.

There is always: consciousness&Imatter.com



hehehehe

[Baruch]

As opposed to...?

Vulcan logic.  Which would immediately conclude that humans are illogical.

[Arik]

As opposed to...?

Physical science is about the physical reality.
A reality that is also perceived by our senses.
The other science is about what is also real but what can not be perceived by our senses because it is abstract.

And here I am talking about the science that is related to our consciousness.
In Yoga this science is better known as INTUITIONAL SCIENCE.

Why intuitional?
Because to perceive it it is needed a different system from what is used to understand physical science and this system is called yoga.

Most people wrongly think that the consciousness is fixed.
What you got you got and that's it but that is not the case because consciousness can change for the better or the worse.
Everything in this universe move and change so if you have a system to make sure that the consciousness increase you win that is why this intuitional science is so important.

[Arik]

Totally serious.  Zombies?  You keep pushing fictions as being real.  Do you believe in the boogy man too???

We are a skin sack filled with chemicals and electrical charges animate us.  If you want to screw with a persons personality, screw with his chemical makeup.   Everything you ingest turns into chemicals or is rejected from out bodies.  All drugs are chemicals. 

Once again, I ask you to provide me with any (ANY) evidence that there is other than the material world.  I know you can't--but give it a good shot, eh????

I already explained you in details but unfortunately you didn't get it.
Remember when I said that you can not prove that your love for a person can not be explained to anybody else and the only evidence that you experienced this love is the release of some extra hormones that are produced by our glands?

If you find so hard to prove a simple physical-mental love how on hearth can you prove something a lot more subtle such as spiritual love?

The only way to find evidence is to experience this love ourselves.
Nothing else will work because love is personal.

In the old times the Saints were depicted-portrayed with an aureola on the head and their image look like the one of a person full of bliss within.

Nothing is really changed in the meantime.
If you go around a pub you can see many people which engage in drinking-smoking or using drugs with a face showing failure in life and sinking in consciousness but in other places you can also see people with bliss and peace of mind impress in their look.

Don't take me wrong.
Even among Atheists you find a lot of really good people that sooner or later will overtake that fantasy that the universe pop up as per magic and nobody run it.
All is not lost after all but the evidence can only come by our hard work.

[SGOS]

Even zombies use a tiny bit of consciousness to walk to perceive some reality and to cause trouble.

And this from a guy who asks someone else if they are being serious.

[aitm]

All is not lost after all but the evidence can only come by our hard work.

Calling supposition and opinion evidence does not suggest any "hard work" was involved.