Origins of the Universe. (Creation versus science. Do they contradict?)

[Mousetrap]

What do you have against "free" enterprise?  The CIA is the biggest drug lord around .... proven years ago.

In South Africa it is the ruling party, the ANC that are the best pimps and pushers on Earth.
Your guys dont have a touch against ours.
One thing about SA is that when it comes to Drugs, prostitution, corruption, theft, hijacking, murder, and rape; no one does it better than the African National Congress.
Proudly South African.

[Cavebear]

The day you admit that Thea, and the boiling magma eon of the earth, is not a scientific fact, but a theory of which science now disputes with much recent discoveries.

Given that there is scientific evidence of Thea hitting the Earth and splashing crustal material what is your evidence against the idea?

[Cavebear]

And just so does Atheists when it comes to their religion.

I'm always amused when theists refer to atheism as "a religion".  It the lack of one.  Sort of like referring to "bald" as a hair color.

[Mousetrap]

Then I'm sure you will be horrified to realize that the Trump Administration has deliberately created a Catch-22 whereby people legally seeking asylum in the US have to illegally cross the border to do so.  And then the Border guards arrest them for committing the crime of crossing the border.

Because, you may be interested to know, it USED to be that asylum-seekers could do that in their own country at US embassies, but the Trump Adminstration stopped that, so (as cruel and unsane as this seems) the only way to seek LEGAL asylum in the US is now  to ILLEGALLY cross the border and get arrested first.

And that means the US takes your children away because, after all, we can put the adults in jail but not the children.  So the children are now disappearing into the foster-child adoption system.  AND, because the system doesn't keep track of the children well (as several courts have recently declared) we have basically stripped children away from their parents in order to frighten new  immigrants from trying to seek asylum for military, drug, and gang violence.

It's not the regular illegal immigrants we are struggling with today those numbers have been dropping since before Trump), it is the previously legal asylum-seekers that Trump has caused to become "illegal" that are the ones being discussed.

I have watched the American politics for 3 years now, and must say that I do not understand the criticism against Trump on his stance of immigration.
If what you say is true, why do we not hear this on ABC, CNN, etc?
I look mainly to CNN, and Fox to deliver a balanced view of what the American politics unfold.

He is very clear, come into the country legally.
Get a passport, permit or whatever.
Apply for amnesty, employee permit, or what is available.
Dont go and break the Laws of the US.

Then I see the accusation of children that's taken from their parents, and most of these people just disappear into America, some not even making an attempt to get them back.
I see Democrats staging protests against ICE and the Government, not knowing it is not even ICE who removes these children.
These people who protest are supporters of the most worst of Human rights violators, such as Linda Sarsour who would like shariah law in the USA.
I see Waters and Whoopi shouting and victimizing people thinking they have this right to carry on as they do?

I find the Democrats are not doing their job, but undermines your democracy on every event possible, whether it be in public, or congress.
They act in defiance and are real traitors to your country.

I also see that Trump will eventually get the wall built, strengthen the American borders, stop illegal immigration, and remove all the gangs from South America.
The reason why I believe he will succeed...the Democrats are making arseholes of them-self in undermining your government, and the American majority are not so stupid as to accept what they are doing.
In other-words, because Democrats do not understand how democracy works, and they want to act like the mobs in 3rd world countries, they are playing into the hand of Trump and the Republicans.

And guess what you dont understand,
Trump knows that the Democrats are helping him with their behavior!

[Mousetrap]

I'm always amused when theists refer to atheism as "a religion".  It the lack of one.  Sort of like referring to "bald" as a hair color.

or a head without a brain.

[SGOS]

I'm always amused when theists refer to atheism as "a religion".  It the lack of one.  Sort of like referring to "bald" as a hair color.

Not collecting stamps is not a hobby.
as
Not believing in God is not a religion.

This is a hard one for theists to grasp.  They, including myself years ago, thought atheism was an assertion.  They think, "I don't believe in God," is the same thing as,  "I believe there is no god."  They can't understand that nuance, even though the nuance is as big as the stars.

[SGOS]

or a head without a brain.

Even though you meant that as a cut, you are actually getting closer to understanding, although you don't know it. 

Atheism = "nothing there."  When it comes to the existence of God question, you insert a belief.  Atheism does not.  It has nothing to put there.  Any attempt to explain why there is nothing to put there falls on deaf ears.  Most theists who come here don't understand this, but some do get it.

[Cavebear]

I have watched the American politics for 3 years now, and must say that I do not understand the criticism against Trump on his stance of immigration.
If what you say is true, why do we not hear this on ABC, CNN, etc?
I look mainly to CNN, and Fox to deliver a balanced view of what the American politics unfold.

He is very clear, come into the country legally.
Get a passport, permit or whatever.
Apply for amnesty, employee permit, or what is available.
Dont go and break the Laws of the US.

Then I see the accusation of children that's taken from their parents, and most of these people just disappear into America, some not even making an attempt to get them back.
I see Democrats staging protests against ICE and the Government, not knowing it is not even ICE who removes these children.
These people who protest are supporters of the most worst of Human rights violators, such as Linda Sarsour who would like shariah law in the USA.
I see Waters and Whoopi shouting and victimizing people thinking they have this right to carry on as they do?

I find the Democrats are not doing their job, but undermines your democracy on every event possible, whether it be in public, or congress.
They act in defiance and are real traitors to your country.

I also see that Trump will eventually get the wall built, strengthen the American borders, stop illegal immigration, and remove all the gangs from South America.
The reason why I believe he will succeed...the Democrats are making arseholes of them-self in undermining your government, and the American majority are not so stupid as to accept what they are doing.
In other-words, because Democrats do not understand how democracy works, and they want to act like the mobs in 3rd world countries, they are playing into the hand of Trump and the Republicans.

And guess what you dont understand,
Trump knows that the Democrats are helping him with their behavior!

You've been watching American politics 3 whole years now.  Wow, that does make you an expert..

If you are watching Fox News you aren't getting news, but Trump Administration claims.  They repeat him endlessly.  Fox has become a Trump political appendage.

You can't come (with the new rules) into the US legally when stepping foot across the border to ask for entry is now itself, illegal. Do you know what a "Catch-22" is?

Almost no one supports Sharia Law in the US.  The idea is nearly laughable.

The WALL will never be built.  It would be idiotically expensive, politically impossible, and geographically inane.

Immigrants are not the cause of gangs in the US.  Immigrants (legal and illegal) as a general population are more law-abiding than the average US citizen.

Children have been taken from their parents and set aside in chain link fence cages.  There is video evidence.  The government itself admits that many cannot be returned to their parents because they don't even know who the parents are. 

And here is a wicked thought to consider.  The Government is mostly Protestant and the immigrants are mostly Catholic; so they think they are "saving" them.  Chew on THAT for a while...

[Cavebear]

Not collecting stamps is not a hobby.
as
Not believing in God is not a religion.

This is a hard one for theists to grasp.  They, including myself years ago, thought atheism was an assertion.  They think, "I don't believe in God," is the same thing as,  "I believe there is no god."  They can't understand that nuance, even though the nuance is as big as the stars.

An important distinction.  I am frequently amazed that "I don't BELIEVE" in any god" is interpreted to mean "I hate God"  and especially "I hate YOUR GOD".  I don't.  I just don't think there are any gods of any sort.

[Hakurei Reimu]

The day you admit that Thea, and the boiling magma eon of the earth, is not a scientific fact, but a theory of which science now disputes with much recent discoveries.

Again, I can see your mouth moving. You're pretending that any of the articles you presented prove your case when they actually don't. Even if they did tend to lean towards what you say, it takes more than one paper to build a scientific consensus. So long as the scientific consensus is that Thea is the best way to explain the moon's mass and orbital properties, and that a primordial melting is the best way to explain the composition of the Earth's crust, you're dead in the water, because THAT is the current scientific consensus that your Bible has to be concordant with.

So, prove that the SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS is that the earth never experienced a primordial melting, or that the moon could exist with all its properties without a giant impactor, and you'll get your admission. And don't just post articles, post impact scores, which tells you how much influence a paper actually has over the scientific consensus â€" a paper may on its own look damning, but it may have rebuttals and disconfirmations that render them moot. Until then, you're stuck.

I find it unlikely, because the primordial melting of protoplanets is the way that science came up with to explain not only the composition of the Earth's crust, but also the fact that asteroids tend to fit into a relatively few isotopic composition "bins" instead of being randomly distributed as expected. The Nebular hypothesis was abandoned because it failed to explain facts like these. Even then, the Nebular hypothesis had a hot young sun before the Earth was fully formed, precisely to explain the difference in composition between the inner and outer solar system. This even has confirmation in the form of T Tauri stars, young stars just getting started, and they are surrounded by nice, full protoplanetary disks â€" disks so optically opaque that the only explanation for them is that they're extremely dusty and therefore haven't gotten around to forming planetessimals yet, let alone planets.

And I notice you still haven't answered my challenge. I'll even get you started: if you release this asteroid from a distance of 1 million kilometers from the Earth's center, then when it impacts, it will be traveling about 11 km/s (neglecting air resistance, because at 4 miles in diameter it's too big for that to make much difference). Now, there's a consequence to hitting at that speed. Just before impact, it's traveling at a pretty good clip; after impact it... isn't. All that kinetic energy has to go somewhere. Again, what happens to the asteroid? If it is made of ice, would it be solid, liquid or gas after impact?

Interesting.
Now why would you claim an asteroid as being ice.
Please show me where we discussed asteroids?
I specifically showed what science claimed about "Comets"!
Comets are a collection of Ice, Gas and space Dust.
Comets are a mini lab as a reflection of how the Earth looked when it took shape from the Nebular eon.
Where am I wrong?
Or do you not agree with what science now claims about what Comets teaches about our ancient solar system?

Comets are not mudballs. They don't have water in a liquid phase, even when they're close to the sun outgassing. One would think that if you describe the Earth as a mudball, that later settles out into the land and the oceans, that the water would have to be in the liquid phase, not solid or gas phases.

Furthermore, comets form in the outer solar system, giving them a different isotopic composition. That's why we're able to tell that our water didn't come from them. That is what was stated right in one of your sources on the subject.

If the Earth formed in a composition resembling a comet rather than from relatively dry planetessimals or even the mudball you say that Genesis supports, then I would say that the early Earth resembled more the Norse creation myth than it does Genesis.

[Mousetrap]

You've been watching American politics 3 whole years now.  Wow, that does make you an expert..

If you are watching Fox News you aren't getting news, but Trump Administration claims.  They repeat him endlessly.  Fox has become a Trump political appendage.

You can't come (with the new rules) into the US legally when stepping foot across the border to ask for entry is now itself, illegal. Do you know what a "Catch-22" is?

Almost no one supports Sharia Law in the US.  The idea is nearly laughable.

The WALL will never be built.  It would be idiotically expensive, politically impossible, and geographically inane.

Immigrants are not the cause of gangs in the US.  Immigrants (legal and illegal) as a general population are more law-abiding than the average US citizen.

Children have been taken from their parents and set aside in chain link fence cages.  There is video evidence.  The government itself admits that many cannot be returned to their parents because they don't even know who the parents are. 

And here is a wicked thought to consider.  The Government is mostly Protestant and the immigrants are mostly Catholic; so they think they are "saving" them.  Chew on THAT for a while...

You speak against Fox news, but say nothing about ABC and CNN.
Even a child can see that they are so fake as can be?
As for the video footage you refer to, it is more than 3 years old when Obama was president.
Exactly, the US government dont even know who their parents are, because the shitty parents just dumped the kids to get into the country.
The Obama administration made the laws, and they did what you now experience under the Trump administration because ICE enforces the law.
Did you protest against the Obama Clinton administration?
No.
Why?
Perhaps because you did not know what Obama did, watching CNN and refusing to watch other stations such as Fox.
CNN and ABC are liberal lying fake news propaganda machines to keep you in the dark about how corrupt the Democrats was.
Look at your silly argument on how the government is Christian.
Pal, the Democrats was Christian too!

Oh by the way, I dont have to be a US Citizin to know what the US politics are all about.
I just watch how stupid Whoopi Goldberg and Maxine Waters is to realize you were rescued by Trump.

Those two are not only stupid way past idiotic, they are ugly too.
Luckily Donald knows how a woman should look like.

[Mousetrap]

Again, I can see your mouth moving....

Furthermore, comets form in the outer solar system, giving them a different isotopic composition. That's why we're able to tell that our water didn't come from them. That is what was stated right in one of your sources on the subject.

If the Earth formed in a composition resembling a comet rather than from relatively dry planetessimals or even the mudball you say that Genesis supports, then I would say that the early Earth resembled more the Norse creation myth than it does Genesis.

So, the comets you tested now does have ice?
So, they are not dry entities that evaporated into space?
Why all the complaints.
I never said that the comets we now see and sampled, shaped the earth.
I said, comets are evidence that the Nebulous cloud was ICE, MATTER and GAS.
Just as we know it is. Obviously a comet from the Oort cloud will not have the same isotopes than what the inner solar system had 4.5 billion years ago!

If that is your argument, you are missing the Bus pal!

Now, lets get all this Icy, Gaseous, space-dust collected on a grandeur scale the size of our planets, and what will we have...
A mud ball earth!
Just as the Bible described.
Thanks for your assistance.
Now, you should again post to all your friends on this forum how poorly I understand science, and how great a physicist you are to get out of this predicament you created.
Oh, wait!
You can also post how uneducated a theist is and how they always twist the truth to prove a god!
If this does not work, create a straw-man argument out of something else, then destroy that argument, and step on the winners podium bragging how you destroyed the Bible.
Greetings from Wild 2
comets were once wet!

[Mousetrap]

An important distinction.  I am frequently amazed that "I don't BELIEVE" in any god" is interpreted to mean "I hate God"  and especially "I hate YOUR GOD".  I don't.  I just don't think there are any gods of any sort.

Given.
I had the idea that your philosophy, lets use this word in the place of religion, are the same as Dawkins', Singer, and all the Atheists of high caliber that places my God equal to a racist, murderous, slave-monger, psychopathic, liar...and....and....and!
But, If you are an atheist that believes that Christians are allowed to have their religion, no problem.
You are the first I have met then.
I was really under the impression that all atheists hates any theist, think they are uneducated believers of a God that can not be proven and as such should be treated as idiots'

What am I saying?
Did you not say the above?

[Cavebear]

You speak against Fox news, but say nothing about ABC and CNN.
Even a child can see that they are so fake as can be?
As for the video footage you refer to, it is more than 3 years old when Obama was president.
Exactly, the US government dont even know who their parents are, because the shitty parents just dumped the kids to get into the country.
The Obama administration made the laws, and they did what you now experience under the Trump administration because ICE enforces the law.
Did you protest against the Obama Clinton administration?
No.
Why?
Perhaps because you did not know what Obama did, watching CNN and refusing to watch other stations such as Fox.
CNN and ABC are liberal lying fake news propaganda machines to keep you in the dark about how corrupt the Democrats was.
Look at your silly argument on how the government is Christian.
Pal, the Democrats was Christian too!

Oh by the way, I dont have to be a US Citizin to know what the US politics are all about.
I just watch how stupid Whoopi Goldberg and Maxine Waters is to realize you were rescued by Trump.

Those two are not only stupid way past idiotic, they are ugly too.
Luckily Donald knows how a woman should look like.

Wow!  Well, first, Fox News isn't actually "news" anymore.  It has long since fallen into commentary on behalf of Trump.

I don't watch ABC or CNN myself..

I didn't refer to any video footage (I think).

The children were forcibly removed from their parent's presence.  The parent's did not "dump" the kids.

The current rules about separating were created by Executive Orders from Trump and agency policy by Sessions, not Obama.

The chain link fences are current events videotaped recently with date-marks by reputable journalists.  They are not old video.

Professional, objective fact-checkers have investigated Fox claims and shown them wrong giving days, dates and locations.

You need to re-evaluate your opinion of factual news stations. 

The US government has a strong christian influence,because most of the population is christian.  Jews are about 10% atheists are about 15%.  Non judeo-christian religions have a smaller presence.

The appearance of a woman in politics shouldn't have any more importance than the appearance of a man.

[Cavebear]

Given.
I had the idea that your philosophy, lets use this word in the place of religion, are the same as Dawkins', Singer, and all the Atheists of high caliber that places my God equal to a racist, murderous, slave-monger, psychopathic, liar...and....and....and!
But, If you are an atheist that believes that Christians are allowed to have their religion, no problem.
You are the first I have met then.
I was really under the impression that all atheists hates any theist, think they are uneducated believers of a God that can not be proven and as such should be treated as idiots'

What am I saying?
Did you not say the above?

You still don't "get it" do you?  I have utterly no interest or belief in your god or any god.  The idea barely crosses my mind daily.

But now that you mention it, as your god is expresses in religious texts, it IS rather "racist, murderous, slave-monger, psychopathic, liar", etc, but so are all the others.  I just don't see any reality in ANY of them.  It just so happens I include yours in the area of superstition.  You know, like with zombies, martians, etc...

I'll try to explain again.  As you don't belief in Thor or Mithra, or Osiris, (I assume)  I don't belief in them OR YOURS.  Your deity myth is just another superstition to me.

Does that make sense to you now?