I have no idea what is really going on. We don't know if it is successful or not. It's really scary. TV is fucked up.
It has been announced, but nothing looks certain. I'm about to go insane. Supposedly it was anounced. Nobody knows anything.
I seriously can't see how this is possible. Or even if it's real. OR successful. It seems surreal.
CNN is reporting on it. Saying that it appears to be a small group within the military.
Are you okay??
Keep your head down...
Guardian is on it also:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
Reports of gunfire. Don't know where you are in Turkey but if you're near anything that could be a point of contention, get somewhere safe.
I read one report that said small group within the military? Of course, the next question is what are their plans? Sure they said it was to restore freedom and security, but every takeover says that. What are their plans... really.
Quote from: SGOS on July 15, 2016, 05:19:53 PM
I read one report that said small group within the military? Of course, the next question is what are their plans? Sure they said it was to restore freedom and security, but every takeover says that. What are their plans... really.
"
An announcement on the Turkish state broadcaster TRT says that a curfew has been declared across Turkey and that airports are closed. The announcer says they are being made to read a statement by the military.
The statement promises a new constitution for the country and says that democracy and the secular rule of law had been undermined. Martial law has also been imposed, it adds."
live feed here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
stay safe DS, stay indoors and wait for news
Quote from: Munch on July 15, 2016, 05:21:29 PM
live feed here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg
stay safe DS, stay indoors and wait for news
Listening to that guy talk on the live feed: this could be so fucking bad.
+1 for are you OK & keep your head down!
I am OK. I am at home. I'm going insane. State of emergency declared. But I have no idea what is going on. what the fuck is going on.
I don't see anything good. It's going to be very very bad.
Erdogan is calling for people to stand for this from tv, via a cell phone feed ?!
State channel gone black.
I don't know. Idon't know.
the major has called for people to go into the streets, please DS ignore it, they are trying to use the public as a meat shield.
keep the doors locked and if need be turn out the lights
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 15, 2016, 05:35:29 PM
I am OK. I am at home. I'm going insane. State of emergency declared. But I have no idea what is going on. what the fuck is going on.
I don't see anything good. It's going to be very very bad.
Erdogan is calling for people to stand for this from tv, via a cell phone feed ?!
State channel gone black.
I don't know. Idon't know.
Stay off those streets. Get ready to bar your doors and windows if this gets out of hand.
Wow! Be careful.
The government is calling people to streets against the coup and the army says stay down state of emergency.
It's horrible. what are they going to do? Bring army and people face to face?
I will stay at home of course. I'm not in the city anyway.
I don't think this is going to go anywhere. I am just scared what will happen afterwards.
just stay safe okay? Stay safe, stay inside and just keep talking. It's going to be okay. Just keep talking.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 15, 2016, 05:44:07 PM
The government is calling people to streets against the coup and the army says stay down state of emergency.
It's horrible. what are they going to do? Bring army and people face to face?
I will stay at home of course. I'm not in the city anyway.
From everything I've seen, his demand for the people to take to the streets in protest has been largely ignored.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 15, 2016, 05:47:37 PM
From everything I've seen, his demand for the people to take to the streets in protest has been largely ignored.
making him show his true colors
live feed just cut off...
Edit: never mind
Shit. I am so glad you checked in. I can't even fathom the fear and anxiety you must be feeling.
some of the people are actually listening to erdogan and jumping over tanks and messing with the military
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXbuP19AWDM
that guy from NTA is getting live feeds from people on the streets using periscope,useful compliment for the bigger news outlets live feeds if you ignore the memes.
It looks like the coup is successful? According to Reuters, the president has already beat feet to Germany to seek asylum.
What a world.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/turkey-military-coup-istanbul-ataturk-airport-shut-down-pm-claims-president-erdogan-still-in-charge-166574/
Quote from: Mermaid on July 15, 2016, 06:04:32 PM
It looks like the coup is successful? According to Reuters, the president has already beat feet to Germany to seek asylum.
What a world.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/turkey-military-coup-istanbul-ataturk-airport-shut-down-pm-claims-president-erdogan-still-in-charge-166574/
funny cause the pro erdogan people are getting all riled up and some seem to be celebrating since they seem to be taking over the Istanbul (or is it ankara?) central plaza without much military resistance. But erdogan seems to be hiding and running. Really difficult to understand what is truly going on.
Quote from: mauricio on July 15, 2016, 06:06:55 PM
funny cause the pro erdogan people are getting all riled up and some seem to be celebrating since they seem to be taking over the Istanbul (or is it ankara?) central plaza without much military resistance. But erdogan seems to be hiding and running. Really difficult to understand what is truly going on.
I hope someone wins very quickly. If this drags on people are doing to die. Lots of them.
I can't see how it is successful. Though it is declared from the state channel. I have no idea.
The street the feed shows is a very central street in Istanbul. Vatan Street. Not from the capital.
I have no idea what is going on. Army withdrew of course. What are they going to do? Fire at civilians?!
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 15, 2016, 06:09:50 PM
I hope someone wins very quickly. If this drags on people are doing to die. Lots of them.
Or worse. Civil war. Well in any case that's^ what will happen.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 15, 2016, 06:12:05 PM
I can't see how is it successful. Though it is declared from the state channel. I have no idea.
The street the feed shows is a very central street in Istanbul. Vatan Street. Not from capital.
I have no idea what is going on. Army withdrew of course. What are they going to do? Fire at civilians?!
woah seems like shots are being fired in one of the blocked bridges, you can see some of the riled up crowds dropping to the floor and running away. Dunno if the military is shooting at the people or towards the air to scare them.
My connection got very slow. Though I think it is q fucking miracle we still have the net, it doesn't load.
Dammit, the shooting has started.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 15, 2016, 06:21:51 PM
Dammit, the shooting has started.
it might be none violent, just used to control crowds
Erdogan has been purging the Kemalists from the military, perhaps they have had enough of his bullshit.
That dog Erdogan should be tried by the ICC
www.kurdishdailynews.org/2016/07/07/pyd-leader-the-us-and-russia-have-enough-documents-to-bring-erdogan-to-icc
The founder and leader of the PKK Mr Abdullah Ocalan is an atheist
From the beginning there is this idea that this is a staged coup attempt by government to guarantee the presidency system.
That looks more realistic to me, because I can't wrap my head around a real military coup in the country.
Quote from: baronvonrort on July 15, 2016, 06:32:17 PM
Erdogan has been purging the Kemalists from the military, perhaps they have had enough of his bullshit.
That dog Erdogan should be tried by the ICC
www.kurdishdailynews.org/2016/07/07/pyd-leader-the-us-and-russia-have-enough-documents-to-bring-erdogan-to-icc
The founder and leader of the PKK Mr Abdullah Ocalan is an atheist
He seems to have plenty of people in his side willing to fight rabidly though. Not good.
http://live.reuters.com/Event/World_News/298613485
If erodgan is faking it to gain power, it's like when the Nazis burned the Reichstag
pro erdogan crowds trying to rush the blocked bridge got shot at i saw various wounded people being carried away.
It's just a thought. I have no idea. But the last time the prime minister was on he said "they weren't successful"... then he went with..."they won't be successful".
Quote from: mauricio on July 15, 2016, 07:09:03 PM
pro erdogan crowds trying to rush the blocked bridge got shot at i saw various wounded people being carried away.
Yes, thank for the link.
It's too clean. Why haven't they caught erodgan?
They're shooting civilians?
It's all working for him not against them
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 15, 2016, 07:10:06 PM
Yes, thank for the link.
Shoezie if you want to talk just tell me
Turkish fighter jet downs military helicopter over Ankara - NTV
ISTANBUL - A Turkish F-16 fighter jet shot down a military helicopter being used by a faction within the army attempting a coup over the capital Ankara early on Saturday, broadcaster NTV said.
The state-run Anadolu agency meanwhile said 17 police officers had been killed in an attack on their offices in the city. Reuters was unable to immediately verify the report.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on July 15, 2016, 07:07:08 PM
If erodgan is faking it to gain power, it's like when the Nazis burned the Reichstag
That might explain a lot why Turkey has so Manu coups happen, and all fail.
Last time it happened I was 4. And they were all against possible religious governments; actually parties. But then what good could come out of any coup?
Erodgan claims a coup, kills a few soldiers and enacts emergency powers that make him dictator for life, outlaws all polemical parties seen as "threats to national stability" chiefly being his rivals and opposition. Has them arrested and thrown in jail for rest of their lives and ushers in the Islamic republic he wants all to the cheers of the crowd who think he's protecting them from an evil military junta
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on July 15, 2016, 07:07:08 PM
If erodgan is faking it to gain power, it's like when the Nazis burned the Reichstag
That crossed my mind too, but it would be a pretty big conspiracy to keep hidden.
That cringeworthy ErdoÄŸan loyalist on the live feed is painful to listen to.
Quote from: Munch on July 15, 2016, 07:40:53 PM
That cringeworthy ErdoÄŸan loyalist on the live feed is painful to listen to.
Well they are all out of a copy machine. You have heard the millions by hearing one.
Im seeing conflicting things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LvR8CjHzOI
These just said the coup failed
helicopter firing to ground targets https://twitter.com/agirecudi/status/754086102907047937
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on July 15, 2016, 07:47:20 PM
These just said the coup failed
yeah...I don't see how it could have turned otherwise. So many conflicting news.
Quote from: mauricio on July 15, 2016, 07:47:35 PM
helicopter firing to ground targets https://twitter.com/agirecudi/status/754086102907047937
Oh no...that's horrible
I just saw three jets fly over Ankara
https://www.facebook.com/live
Quote from: mauricio on July 15, 2016, 07:58:58 PM
https://www.facebook.com/live
It says coup has been stopped and some soldiers surrendered to police themselves.
Apparently, there was an attack on the parliement. Unsuccessful.
I wonder if there is a body count. I hope not.
It's a fake coup. No reason to bomb parliament or anything.
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on July 15, 2016, 08:07:18 PM
It's a fake coup. No reason to bomb parliament or anything.
Yes. It's not a real bombing either. Could be anyone. Sigh.
PENTAGON SAYS THERE IS NO IMPACT ON INCIRLIK AIR BASE IN TURKEY, COUNTER-ISIL AIR OPERATIONS FROM INCIRLIK CONTINUE
that is the base were NATO soldiers are also there are nukes there. Good thing it seems to be untouched.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 15, 2016, 08:12:59 PM
Yes. It's not a real bombing either. Could be anyone. Sigh.
I'm sorry shoe..it looks like Erodgan just pulled a Reichstag
Quote from: GrinningYMIR on July 15, 2016, 08:14:44 PM
I'm sorry shoe..it looks like Erodgan just pulled a Reichstag
We'll see the game after all this. I didn't look at the coup as a good thing. I don't trust any of the sides. No good could come out of it.
I forgot the English language. Can't express anything...I'll try to sleep.
It's over
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 15, 2016, 08:19:57 PM
I forgot the English language. Can't express anything...I'll try to sleep.
Good idea! If you haven't already thought of these.......................you should.
Food, water, & shelter. Sounds like you've got the shelter, if this shit drags on for ?; you need to plan now for how to get food and water + any specialized items (baby stuff, meds, etc) to see you and whoever is with you through how long you estimate this will last. If you can get them safely and can afford them........................more supplies are better than less.
NO supplies are worth you not making it back to your crib! Stay safe!
apparently its over, so.......
Koo koo cachoo
coup coup adieu
Erdogan's pissed
makin' a list
gonna get medieval on a soldier or two
spread em' on the rack or run em' through
tighten his power and make it stick
get rid of the enemy, that's the trick!
Somebody said it might've been fake
so many dead for heaven's sake
a helicopter caused a terrible loss
the air force turned it into copter sauce
Now this ain't exactly politically correct
will receive some flak, I'm willing to bet
Shake your fingers and scold and swear
but honestly I really don't care
carry on......
Quote from: mauricio on July 15, 2016, 07:15:17 PM
Turkish fighter jet downs military helicopter over Ankara - NTV
ISTANBUL - A Turkish F-16 fighter jet shot down a military helicopter being used by a faction within the army attempting a coup over the capital Ankara early on Saturday, broadcaster NTV said.
Why are they showing a photo of wreckage from South Korea in 2015 and claiming Turkey shot a helicopter down?
Nothing better for an Islamist who wants to be a dictator than a failed coup
That certainly doesn't help it look like it wasn't staged... pro-Erdogan T.V. stations were reportedly working perfectly fine while all the opposition T.V. channels went down.
It would seem that if it's exposed as a fake coup Erdogan's days could be numbered, but we shall see.
Above all Shoe I'm glad you're safe. I hope you sleep well even though you may not.
Occam suggests that this was just a poorly planned and supported coup.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 16, 2016, 12:39:35 AM
Occam suggests that this was just a poorly planned and supported coup.
That's what I am assuming... the amount of cover-up for it to be planned by Erdogan is just too unbelievable (much like 9/11 conspiracies).
My guess is that it was what you said and Erdogan's side just knows the best way to exploit it for their own gain.
I guess a staged coup takes things like this from the front page, the bearded nutjobs would approve.
www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&NID=101607&NewsCatID=509
I take the position that conspiracies do actually exist as do theories, the two don't seem to make good bed fellows..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 16, 2016, 12:55:41 AM
I take the position that conspiracies do actually exist as do theories, the two don't seem to make good bed fellows..
It seems there are two large camps concerning conspiracy theories. One camp accepts conspiracies without evidence. The other camp rejects them without evidence. Some of us have knee jerk reaction: If it's a conspiracy theory, it's not worth a second look. It reminds me of one of Mel Gibson's early films, Conspiracy Theory, where a planned deadly terrorist attack was dismissed out of hand when it was reported to authorities by a known conspiracy nut.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 16, 2016, 12:39:35 AM
Occam suggests that this was just a poorly planned and supported coup.
That's what I'm thinking.
I'm trying to understand it. Yes it doesn't look like it was staged. However, honestly I am not buy anything right now.
As far as I am concerned, the only important thing to me right now is that army really stood down and didn't attack full force. If they didn't do that and started killing from the beginning it was going to be so bloody and horrible I don't want to even think about it. I don't think we could have recoreved from that. Apperantly, they put down arms and surrender themselves.
100 smt soldiers dead. 90 something civillians dead. Most of the civillians are the ones going out to fight. This toll will rise probably. Around 1200 people in custody.
Now as to who is behind it. Erdogan says "it is Gulen" but then he always says "it's Gulen" for everything and as his grup is another islamic one too, if that's the case we dodged another serious shit. Some people want to believe this was the Kemalists (Ataturk followers) in the army. I don't know. May be a mixture of everyone against the obvious.
All I know is a coup would bring us back decades and this country is already 50 years backwards compared to the standard.
Quote from: Nonsensei on July 16, 2016, 12:39:35 AM
Occam suggests that this was just a poorly planned and supported coup.
Or what they could muster. Probably not alll the factions of the army agreed, hence they took hostages from highest ranks. If it was the whole army going full force probably I wouldn't even find a chance to post a thread to begin with.
That was all I could think last night to hold on to. "We still have the net, this won't go over."
Watching the reactions of other countries and their late but now super strong endorsement of the current government, the staged coup resonates pretty hard to me.
I glad you are Ok, btw, thanks for taking the time to keep us posted
Staged coup paranoia is a good sign of our characteristics as citizens. (The secular part) No trust for any side. NONE.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 16, 2016, 06:56:50 AM
That was all I could think last night to hold on to. "We still have the net, this won't go over."
A lot of the Kurdish websites i look at were blocked months ago by your government, you still have some of the net the censors remove what they don't like.
Also this. Greece. They jumped up to military vigilance as this has been going down now they have military fugitives seeking asylum.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/16/turkey-coup-president-erdogan-says-military-elements-guilty-of-t/
Quote12:38pm
Greece considers asylum case of coup fugitives
Greece will examine the request for political asylum by eight Turkish soldiers who fled to Greece in a helicopter earlier on Saturday, two Greek government sources told Reuters.
Greece arrested the men after they landed in the northern Greek city of Alexandroupolis. They are due to appear before a Greek prosecutor on Sunday, one of the officials said.
Turkey's Dogan news agency is reporting that the group numbers two majors, a captain and five privates.
The Black Hawk helicopter the soldiers fled in will be returned to Turkey immediately the sources said.
The state-run Anadolu Agency has quoted Turkey's foreign minister as demanding "the immediate return of the eight treacherous officers."
Quote from: baronvonrort on July 16, 2016, 07:50:22 AM
A lot of the Kurdish websites i look at were blocked months ago by your government, you still have some of the net the censors remove what they don't like.
Ehh fuck off. It's not just Kurdish sites that are blocked. You don't know the first thing about what is going on here you fucking moron. Enough.
baronvonrort,
You cheer with joy when PKK suicide bombers kill hundreds of civillians, innocent people and children, BUT then you constantly make propaganda of how fucked up that an islamic group doing the same to other people oh and this all about some holy book and scripture, because suiciding bombing and terrorism is all about a specific religion, right?
Do you have any idea how many millions of Kurds have constantly been voting for Erdogan and religious government since the beginning, you ignorant dumb fuck? What do you think Kurds are? Secular, highly educated anti-religious group?
Just trying to beat him down, millions of Turks have voted for the Kurdish party while their terrorst faction killing their fellow citizens left and right. Just so they would be in the parliement and not to give him a free reign.
Can you imagine a big active terrorist group bombing everywhere in your own country killing civillians AND millions of people voting for their political party to stop a dictator wanna be? Tough luck.
Do you get that? Do you have the basic tiny bit of intelligence to follow that you vile, rotten piece of shit?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 16, 2016, 08:27:40 AM
baronvonrort,
You cheer with joy when PKK suicide bombers kill hundreds of civillians, innocent people and children, BUT then you constantly make propaganda of how fucked up that an islamic group doing the same to other people oh and this all about some holy book and scripture.
Turkey has been attacking Kurds in Iraq for decades should i be cheering for Turkey when they attack Kurds in Iraq or Syria like you do?
Amnesty International has been critical of the Turkish treatment of Kurds in Turkey should i be cheering the Turks on like you do?
www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/01/turkey-onslaught-on-kurdish-areas-putting-tens-of-thousands-of-lives-at-risk
Erdogan said Assad should go for killing his people, Turkey are using their military to kill Turkish kurds and you act like Turkeys shit doesn't stink while using Turkish military against civilians.
The founder and leader of the PKK is atheist, the Constitution of the Rojava cantons show the Kurds are light years ahead of the dickhead you have running Turkey.
Quote from: baronvonrort on July 16, 2016, 08:39:38 AM
Turkey has been attacking Kurds in Iraq for decades should i be cheering for Turkey when they attack Kurds in Iraq or Syria like you do?
Amnesty International has been critical of the Turkish treatment of Kurds in Turkey should i be cheering the Turks on like you do?
www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/01/turkey-onslaught-on-kurdish-areas-putting-tens-of-thousands-of-lives-at-risk
Erdogan said Assad should go for killing his people, Turkey are using their military to kill Turkish kurds and you act like Turkeys shit doesn't stink while using Turkish military against civilians.
The founder and leader of the PKK is atheist, the Constitution of the Rojava cantons show the Kurds are light years ahead of the dickhead you have running Turkey.
I am cheering for what?! Kurds are light years away?! I am thinking what?! :lol:
You are damaged and stupid. Who ever fucked you go mess up with them. You don't know the first thing about my opinions or me. I am not even sure you can understand anything you read.
Now get the fuck out of my face.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 16, 2016, 08:47:49 AM
You are damaged and stupid. Who ever fucked you go mess up with them. You don't know the first thing about my opinions or me. I am not even sure you can understand anything you read.
Now get the fuck out of my face.
I have you figured out, you can criticise everything else yet get butthurt when Turkey or Islam get any criticism
You can fuck off out of my face, if you don't like what i post don't respond , you can fuck off
You are not criticising anything you vile peice of shit. You are posting unrelated bullshit to me just to fuck up with me in a thread I posted to share my personal fear and distress when a military coup attempt underway in my country that resulted with hundreds of deaths.
Do you understand that?
The news here is reporting the power to and access to and from Incirlik air base has been cut.
Also 2500 judges have been suspended.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 09:14:04 AM
The news here is reporting the power to and access to and from Incirlik air base has been cut.
Yeah that makes sense.
QuoteAlso 2500 judges have been suspended.
I can't find this. Do you have any link or source.
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160716/1043117142/turkey-judges-coup.html
I saw it on CNN but that was the first link I found.
Also, I'd be very afraid if Turkish authorities decide they want to take US assets at Incirlik. We keep things there we won't be willing to share.
Some media here are making an emphasis en Greece's said policy about taking in and given asylum to people involved in the gulp.
I find this quite scary, specially after Erdogan's declarations, since it may break the tense calm between Tukey and Greece... Guess some are seeing Chipre all over again
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 09:35:46 AM
I saw it on CNN but that was the first link I found.
It is blocked. It doesn't load.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 09:37:33 AM
Also, I'd be very afraid if Turkish authorities decide they want to take US assets at Incirlik. We keep things there we won't be willing to share.
I don't think there would be any problem there. There are strict deals and agreements, it is senseless to think they didn't consider scenarios like this when they were done.
Quote from: Siberia on July 16, 2016, 10:01:27 AM
Some media here are making an emphasis en Greece's said policy about taking in and given asylum to people involved in the gulp.
I find this quite scary, specially after Erdogan's declarations, since it may break the tense calm between Tukey and Greece... Guess some are seeing Chipre all over again
I don't know. But I don't think so. Esp. not the level of Cyprus. That's an ancient issue.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on July 16, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
It is blocked. It doesn't load.
QuoteTurkish authorities suspend almost 3,000 judges following military coup attempt, local media reported Saturday.
MOSCOW (Sputnik) â€" Late on Friday, Turkish authorities said that an attempted coup is taking place in the country. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan urged Turkish citizens to take to streets, stating that the coup attempt was carried out by a small group within the military.
A total of 2,745 judges and prosecutors from Supreme Board of Judges and Prosecutors (HSYK) have been suspended, Anadolu news agency reported.
HSYK is an organization uniting the legal community of Turkey. Its head is Turkish Minister of Justice.
The coup attempt was reportedly suppressed by early Saturday, with Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim stating that all coup supporters were identified and would be apprehended as the country was returning to normal life. Over 180 people were killed and 1,470 were injured during the events, while nearly 3,000 people have already been detained, according to the prime minister.
Thanks. I am so scared.
The fact that they are removing a bunch of judges who don't always rule the way the administration would like them to may be the scariest part about this.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 11:05:39 AM
The fact that they are removing a bunch of judges who don't always rule the way the administration would like them to may be the scariest part about this.
That is indeed chilling.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 11:05:39 AM
The fact that they are removing a bunch of judges who don't always rule the way the administration would like them to may be the scariest part about this.
Agreed. But don't think them secular, progressive judges. They are hunting another group pretty much like themselves. They incited the coup. But then it doesn't matter if you look at from the point of dictatorship.
E: Though I am sure they will use this to wipe out every group in the juicidal system they don't like.
He is on TV talking within the crowds. He texted everyone in the country -literally- to invite to the streets. I can't stand his voice.
Stay safe, shoe
Erdogan has warned for a second coup. That coup will come around and it will be his coup. The last vestiges of Turkish democracy and it's constitutional order will now be swept away quickly. Presidential system? Thousands of judges removed from office? The army being purged? A country where journalists are imprisoned, newspapers are nationalized and the independence of the judicial sector is thwarted is not a democracy. You can hold elections until you see blue in the face but that won't help.
Gerard
Erodgan has control
What a rollercoaster.
The Turks are demanding the US arrest and extradite Fethullah Gulen to Turkey. I sure hope they don't plan to try to leverage US assets at Incirlik to try to force the issue. I can't imagine the US would respond very nicely to someone putting the security of nuclear weapons at risk.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 08:05:33 PM
The Turks are demanding the US arrest and extradite Fethullah Gulen to Turkey. I sure hope they don't plan to try to leverage US assets at Incirlik to try to force the issue. I can't imagine the US would respond very nicely to someone putting the security of nuclear weapons at risk.
Yes. Nukes are a bargaining chip. At an air base, my first guess is they are tactical, i.e. air launched, but I'm not up on the latest weapons. Strategic means big missiles which require fairly big launch systems. My worst case would be him dealing them to someone like ISIS. That would be bad.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 08:05:33 PM
The Turks are demanding the US arrest and extradite Fethullah Gulen to Turkey. I sure hope they don't plan to try to leverage US assets at Incirlik to try to force the issue. I can't imagine the US would respond very nicely to someone putting the security of nuclear weapons at risk.
'The Turks' are demanding? :lol: You mean Erdogan is screaming propaganda from within the crowds to create the perception managment he needs to make any fundamental changes in the country he hasn't been able to before. Of course I have no idea, but I don't see him going that way.
As to what Turks feel generally; they are people and people are scared. You are watching another Trump talking.
Pop, whatever his current goal is, he needs to get along with strategic allies of the country. What is he going to do? Severe ties with USA? Pffft.
Propably you don't remember, but he said harsher things to Israel and Russia and swallowed everything and made up with them too. Politics. Erdogan is not a religious leader, he is a politician.
Also there is another perspective about having a American toys on one's soil. Other kids can screw up with you up to a limit. Have you ever thought of that?
Anyway, let's hope things won't go anywhere near that.
Not that I think Erdogan is smart, but Shoe, do you think he's stupid enough to go and poke a stick in the eye of the US military by taking US assets of the base? That would be an act of war and I doubt very much the military here would just go along with it.. Then again crazy shit does happen with meglomaniacs in power..
Quote from: stromboli on July 16, 2016, 11:53:22 PM
My worst case would be him dealing them to someone like ISIS. That would be bad.
Do you have any idea how many American military personnel are there in Turkey? What is he going to do? Arrest them and confiscate weapons by force?
That means declaring war on the USA.
And I think this train of thought is a good example of how you people tend to underestimate characters like Erdogan and the simplistic way you see what is going on here and the ME generally.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on July 17, 2016, 03:32:04 AM
Not that I think Erdogan is smart, but Shoe, do you think he's stupid enough to go and poke a stick in the eye of the US military by taking US assets of the base? That would be an act of war and I doubt very much the military here would just go along with it.. Then again crazy shit does happen with meglomaniacs in power..
LOL I just wrote that above. No, APA I don't think he is that stupid.
If he was, he wouldn't reach so far.
However, they started to talk about bringing the death penalty back to country which hasn't been carried out since early 80s in the country and lawfully abolished in 2003 or 04 not sure.
That's bad enough, besides the other horrible things going on. It's like a full horror show.
Sis called the whole thing "some sort of 'events before execute Order 66' ". Feels like she has a point.
I don't think he would do it either, but I'm sure Faux news already has the script written for Uncle Donald to press that fear button just in time for the elections..
I can't begin to tell you just how much I've pretty much given up on following the news in the past year. Woodworking is more fun..
@ DrunkenShoe: One article I read said Turks went to the streets to support Turkey, although not necessarily their leader. It got me wondering what Erdogan's appeal is to those who do support him? Is it some grand plan he has for Turkey?
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on July 16, 2016, 08:05:33 PM
The Turks are demanding the US arrest and extradite Fethullah Gulen to Turkey. I sure hope they don't plan to try to leverage US assets at Incirlik to try to force the issue. I can't imagine the US would respond very nicely to someone putting the security of nuclear weapons at risk.
Basically if things get really crazy, the Turks can just order the American military to leave with their assets. To which the US would have to comply under international law.
Gerard
Quote from: SGOS on July 17, 2016, 08:58:39 AM
@ DrunkenShoe: One article I read said Turks went to the streets to support Turkey, although not necessarily their leader. It got me wondering what Erdogan's appeal is to those who do support him? Is it some grand plan he has for Turkey?
Lots of people did that. Yes, Erdogan is appealing to his supporters. Yes, this is all about his grand plans.
From here it is down to dark abyss, civil war. These are 'good days' we are having.
The coup attempt could be provocation to see what is the resistence or the worst that could come up since they knew from seculars to other religious group, there were many people against them. So 'let's make a rehearsal'.
I am afraid less than five years the worst version of this will come from them. Result; islamic republic. They will remove laicism from the law, change 'the state has no law' to Islam is the religion of this state. They will bring back death penalty, ban abortion, make it very easy to be armed for individuals, make adultry a crime, probably they will make apostasy laws because there aren't any other than public blasphemy....etc.
Well of course it will be very bad, I am just talking about the basics in law.
RIP. This country is dead.
Time to get out Shoe? Looks like Erdogan's purge has been quite successful at removing anyone and everyone even remotely suspected of Kemalism. Hell University deans all expelled?
He's turning Turkey into his own autocratic theocracy, Ataturk must be rolling in his grave!
MY fiance was supposed to go to a conference in Istanbul next year, they've already relocated it to Amsterdam.
Be safe Shoe, don't get stuck in Erdogan's future, which undoubtedly will take Turkey back a century or more.