Theist:Why do you think God does not exist what are your reasons?

[fencerider]

that is unfortunate. the government should not be in the business of defending the drug industry.

There was a dr that went so far as to try to charge the parents for child abuse for refusing chemotherapy for their daughter. All that when statistics show the overall success rate of chemotherapy is less than 15%.

There isn't occassional bad reactions. There are some pharmaceuticals which have killed more thsn 1,000 people that are still being sold. The drug companies have this wonderful thing called arbitrage. I don't think its possible to get medical insurance without agreeing to arbitrage. Whenever a legal matter goes to arbitrage the ruling is private. It doesnt become a matter of public record like a legal matter that goes to court. So everytime the drug companies can act like it is the first time that somebody was killed by the drug

[Baruch]

that is unfortunate. the government should not be in the business of defending the drug industry.

There was a dr that went so far as to try to charge the parents for child abuse for refusing chemotherapy for their daughter. All that when statistics show the overall success rate of chemotherapy is less than 15%.

There isn't occassional bad reactions. There are some pharmaceuticals which have killed more thsn 1,000 people that are still being sold. The drug companies have this wonderful thing called arbitrage. I don't think its possible to get medical insurance without agreeing to arbitrage. Whenever a legal matter goes to arbitrage the ruling is private. It doesnt become a matter of public record like a legal matter that goes to court. So everytime the drug companies can act like it is the first time that somebody was killed by the drug

Not everyone agrees with the judicial tort model for ordinary citizens.  I prefer trial by ordeal myself ;-)  In fact there are constant efforts to restrict or ban tort law and tort lawyers (ambulance chasers).  So you get your 100,000 dollars together, go to court, the other side is a company with 1,000,000 dollars and more lawyers than you, and the judge or jury doesn't care either way, they just want to go home.  Then after a long long time you get a damage judgement (like the lady burnt by the McDonald's coffee).  Most tort cases fail, you will bat less than 50/50 ... and the other side if they sue you (the individual) you can be out the money and the time and still loose, in fact the other side (corporation) can obfuscate and extend the proceedings just to drive you bankrupt from the cost of your attorney.  This is why ... often there are contracts that imply arbitration of disputes .. of course the arbitration panel isn't looking to find fault, just get you to stop what you are doing, they work for The Man.  So lets say you get sick from aspirin ... they have grandfathered that, even though it wouldn't pass today's requirements for safety, some people get sick or die from taking it, depending on their blood chemistry (basically everyone is different).  If you were a drug company, knowing that any product you make, can randomly sicken or kill part of the population (usually a prescription med) ... then morally, you have to go out of business and join a nunnery right?

[fencerider]

not go out of business. stop selling the particular product. And be held accountable like the Tekata airbag who got in trouble for selling airbags they knew weren't safe. Oh yes, the drug companies know as well as Tekata that their products are lethal. There are drugs that have very few fatalities on record and others that make a lot of money that have thousands of fatalities on record. They know, but like GM and Tekata they hope they can get away with it.

[Cavebear]

Not everyone agrees with the judicial tort model for ordinary citizens.  I prefer trial by ordeal myself ;-) 

Drowning or Rack?

[Baruch]

Drowning or Rack?

Trial by fire then ... politicians have to pass thu a bonfire of their own vanities ;-)

[Cavebear]

Trial by fire then ... politicians have to pass thu a bonfire of their own vanities ;-)

Repubs would say that.  Of course they would say anything.  Dems would argue that fire is good for staying warm.  Libertarians would say its a choice.  Coms would say (sorry thats a State secret which of course they aren't hiding.  Theists would say burn them all (except me) and let God sort them out.  The Greens would use a parabola to focus the solar energy on the victim (renewably, of course). 

[fencerider]

Trial by fire then ... politicians have to pass thu a bonfire of their own vanities ;-)

Are we talking about Trump? That's gonna be a big fire; long enough for me to go to the store for burgers and marshmallows.

[Baruch]

Are we talking about Trump? That's gonna be a big fire; long enough for me to go to the store for burgers and marshmallows.

Fat cats really sizzle, the Inquisition tells me ;-)

[fencerider]

nobody like cats not even me. I think I'm gonna have to change to a dog

[Mike Cl]

Love cats!

[doorknob]

The universal law of cause and effect states that for every effectthere is a definite cause, likewise for every cause there is a definite effect. Your thoughts, behaviors and actions create specific effects that manifest and create your life as you know it

GOD being uncaused is not special pleading because the law is based on the observable universe and as discussed; GOD encompasses the universe so to speak, is outside of it, where it's laws, the ones Created for that universe by that force or existence, don't constrain IT.

Does that make any sense?

Be honest....please.

And I'm sorry, I know you weren't talking to me.

peace

that's nice. now prove god did it.

[Baruch]

that's nice. now prove god did it.

He was speaking of karma.  In Indian thought, karma is natural, the effect of bad actions or even good actions done for bad reasons.  Part of the notion that there is no free lunch, and the human hope that malefactors will be punished ... eventually.  In Indian thought, it takes a god, like Krishna, to get you free of karma.

[Godis]

Seems as if there are a lot of God-haters here who try and throw a lot of fancy words around, but with little actual understanding of their meaning.  Mathematics is the language of science, but you must have faith to believe the basic premises of mathematics.  That's because you have to simply accept as true with no proof given that a point has no dimensions, a line has infinite length, and a plane has no boundaries.  Then once you convince yourself all that stuff is true, you get to deal with Euclidean's Fifth postulate that can change your entire perspective of what your own reality is!  "Modern Geometries" is nothing to mess with.  Russell had mathematicians jumping off buildings when he proposed his paradox regarding "predicates not predicable of themselves".  That sounds like where this discussion is headed.

[Blackleaf]

Mathematics is the language of science, but you must have faith to believe the basic premises of mathematics.

You're trying to claim that it takes faith to believe in math? It's official. You're a hopeless idiot.

[Godis]

Blackleaf,
You probably hate mathematics because you don't take the time to fully understand it.  Is that how you deal with God too?