Real shocker, huh?
QuoteA longtime white supremacist from rural Missouri was arrested Sunday and held on a charge of premeditated first-degree murder in connection with a shooting spree in Kansas that killed three people at a Jewish community center and a Jewish retirement home.
Frazier Glenn Cross, 73 â€" known in Aurora, Mo., as Frazier Glenn Miller â€" was arrested at 1:28 p.m. and was booked into the Johnson County, Kan., jail in Olathe at 8:48 p.m. CT, according to the booking report.
Before being driven off to jail, Miller began ranting while in police custody, police said. A TV news video shows the suspect yelling what appears to be "Heil Hitler!" from the backseat of a police car.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has provided a profile:
Miller, who was arrested using the alias Frazier Glenn Cross, has been in the movement nearly his entire life. Miller is the former “grand dragon†of the Carolina Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which he founded and ran in the 1980s before being sued by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) for operating an illegal paramilitary organization and using intimidation tactics against African Americans.
After subsequently forming another Klan group, the White Patriot Party, he was found in criminal contempt and sentenced to six months in prison for violating the court settlement. He went underground while his conviction was under appeal but was caught by the FBI with a weapons cache in Missouri. He served three years in federal prison after being indicted on weapons charges and for plotting robberies and the assassination of SPLC founder Morris Dees. As part of a plea bargain, Miller testified against other Klan leaders in a 1988 sedition trial.
Miller is a raging anti-Semite who has posted more than 12,000 times on Vanguard News Network (VNN), whose slogan is “No Jews, Just Right.†VNN founder Alex Linder has openly advocated “exterminating†Jews since December 2009. Miller, a close partner to Linder, has called Jews “swarthy, hairy, bow-legged, beady-eyed, parasitic midgets.†Miller is also one of VNN’s largest donors and he printed and distributed thousands of copies of VNN’s newsletter, The Aryan Alternative.
This isn’t the first time a VNN user has been arrested for violence. On January 17, 2011, less than 12 hours after posting on VNN, Kevin William Harpham placed an improvised explosive device concealed in a backpack along a Martin Luther King parade route in Spokane Washington. The lead sinkers in the radio-detonated IED were coated with Warfarin rat poison, evidently intended to increase bleeding. Had the device functioned, dozens of men, women and children would have been killed or injured. Harpham also distributed The Aryan Alternative.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/14/1291903/-White-supremacist-in-custody-after-shooting-spree-at-Kansas-Jewish-Community-Center?showAll=yes (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/14/1291903/-White-supremacist-in-custody-after-shooting-spree-at-Kansas-Jewish-Community-Center?showAll=yes)
Somewhere in the realm of white supremacists there has to be at least one person who is intelligent enough to know that this is not helping the cause. But apparently that person is highly outnumbered.
I am highly offended that the alleged criminal must be labeled as a "white" supremacist and hereby declare that from now on a racist should be called a racist and us fine white people should not be so incriminated by those damn conservative news..people...
so there!
on a side note:
Quotefor operating an illegal paramilitary organization
I didn't know you could even have a illegal one...
Quote from: aitm on April 14, 2014, 04:31:35 PMon a side note: I didn't know you could even have a illegal one...
Boy Scouts.
Quote from: stromboli on April 14, 2014, 11:38:52 AM
Somewhere in the realm of white supremacists there has to be at least one person who is intelligent enough to know that this is not helping the cause. But apparently that person is highly outnumbered.
White supremacists and neo Nazi types have been reduced to comic books villains in modern society. You could almost feel sorry them if you had never visited their favorite Internet hangout.
And ended up killing only christians.
He was also a convicted felon and ineligible to own a firearm of any kind, but the libtards will be using this as another excuse to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
Quotebut the libtards will be using this ....
I can see this ending well..
So where were the legal gun owners to stop him?
Quote from: Shiranu on April 14, 2014, 09:08:43 PM
So where were the legal gun owners to stop him?
Feel better now?
Quote from: Johan on April 14, 2014, 09:35:20 PM
Feel better now?
Nah, also...
-If we didn't allow every nutjob and his brother to have a gun, do you think this guy would have had as easy access to get a gun?
-So you feel less safe in gun-free zones? Tell me more about how the majority of gun violence occurs in them (protip; they don't).
-Too lazy to come up with more... just put whatever typical anti-gun-flooded-nation (note the distinction between that and "anti-gun", something I am against seeing as how I am a gun owner...) argument you want here...
He fired the first shots, I jokingly responded. Anyone who uses the word "libtard" clearly is not going to approach this conversation with an iota of sense and as for the regulars here... we have already had this discussion before and we know where each other stands.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 14, 2014, 10:29:41 PM
Nah, also...
-If we didn't allow every nutjob and his brother to have a gun, do you think this guy would have had as easy access to get a gun?
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. When England banned guns, gun crimes went up by 35%.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 14, 2014, 10:29:41 PM-So you feel less safe in gun-free zones? Tell me more about how the majority of gun violence occurs in them (protip; they don't).
Every single mass shooting in the last 30 years where 3 or more people have been killed has occurred in a GFZ, with only one single exception.
Criminals love regarded liberals (libtards) that believe their government (local cops) will protect them, and refuse to acknowledge the reality that cops have no duty to protect YOU, they carry guns to protect themselves.
How many law abiding gun owners become outlaws because they have a gun after they use it? How many accidently kill a loved one or another innocent person? Why do they check for loaded guns at gun shows? How many gun owners have actually killed a person and wouldn't be able to when they needed to protect themselves? The police have guns, why is it they can get killed by outlaws when they are even trained how to protect themselves. The whole idea of security is a joke, with, or without a gun. If a person wants to kill you with a gun he will, whether you have a gun or not. Most people with a gun in their hand would be shaking so bad in a stress situation they couldn't hit the side of a barn. Out laws are usually psychopaths that don't even get scared and are not afraid to kill, unlike normal people. Also, no one is trying to take guns away, just make it safer with them being everywhere, that is not making us safer as a whole. I have a gun, but only under exceptional circumstances could I use it for protection, being in a safe place locked up. Solitary
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 15, 2014, 11:44:51 AM
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. When England banned guns, gun crimes went up by 35%.Every single mass shooting in the last 30 years where 3 or more people have been killed has occurred in a GFZ, with only one single exception.
Criminals love regarded liberals (libtards) that believe their government (local cops) will protect them, and refuse to acknowledge the reality that cops have no duty to protect YOU, they carry guns to protect themselves.
That's at odds with firearms related deaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate. The countries with lax gun laws have the highest gun death rates.
QuoteEvery single mass shooting in the last 30 years where 3 or more people have been killed has occurred in a GFZ, with only one single exception.
Again, tell me more about how the MAJORITY of gun related deaths are in gun-free zones and are mass shootings...
QuoteMore than 900 people died in mass shootings during the past seven years, and a majority of them were killed by people they knew, according to a USA TODAY analysis of gun-related slayings.
The 934 deaths account for less than 1% of all gun-related homicides, and nearly half involve a suspect slaying his or her family members, the detailed examination shows.
You want to keep on throwing insults around, at least try having the evidence on your side. Otherwise you just look like a complete doucher and it makes me feel kinda bad for you.
Also, are houses now GFZs, or are you just pulling that out of your ass? I am suspecting the latter...
So... "libtard" nations are astronomically safer to live in, the majority of gun violence does NOT take place in GFZ's and the majority of mass killings were the suspects murdering their family... you want to try again?
Edit: Also, that's weird... I apparently got to like Icarus' post 3 times from one click...
Quote from: Solitary on April 15, 2014, 12:05:05 PM
How many law abiding gun owners become outlaws because they have a gun after they use it? How many accidently kill a loved one or another innocent person? Why do they check for loaded guns at gun shows? How many gun owners have actually killed a person and wouldn't be able to when they needed to protect themselves? The police have guns, why is it they can get killed by outlaws when they are even trained how to protect themselves. The whole idea of security is a joke, with, or without a gun. If a person wants to kill you with a gun he will, whether you have a gun or not. Most people with a gun in their hand would be shaking so bad in a stress situation they couldn't hit the side of a barn. Out laws are usually psychopaths that don't even get scared and are not afraid to kill, unlike normal people. Also, no one is trying to take guns away, just make it safer with them being everywhere, that is not making us safer as a whole. I have a gun, but only under exceptional circumstances could I use it for protection, being in a safe place locked up. Solitary
Yep, and if that psychopath decides that he will break down my door to rob me so he can buy more drugs, it will be the last mistake he makes.
If they break into your home, the police will respond to your house, take pictures of your body, interview neighbors to see if they saw or heard anything, and file their report. There is nothing like an Obama sticker on the car in the driveway to tell the criminals that this house contains unarmed victims that will be easy pickings even if all they have is a knife or crowbar as a weapon.
It is amazing that here on an atheist forum people are smart enough to recognize that gods are imaginary, religion is pure bull shit, they believe that they have no responsibility to protect themselves cause the government will.
I also wear a seat-belt when in my car, not because of my actions, but the actions of others, and have fire extinguishers in my home, just incase.
QuoteIt is amazing that here on an atheist forum people are smart enough to recognize that gods are imaginary, religion is pure bull shit, they believe that they have no responsibility to protect themselves cause the government will.
Unless you live in a barrio, ghetto, slum or any other variation of "the hood", the odds you are going to need a gun is very, very low (even in America, shockingly enough).
QuoteIt is amazing that here on an atheist forum people are smart enough to recognize that gods are imaginary, religion is pure bull shit, they believe that they have no responsibility to protect themselves cause the government will.
It's amazing, to me, that people can argue guns in their house make them safer when statistics point out the fact that a gun in your house makes you significantly MORE likely to be killed in your home, then claim that they somehow are "rational unlike the rest of us".
We left our door open about 8+ hours a day in Las Cruces, and here we have a glass door that you could punch through if you wanted to. I have not once felt that I needed to use one of my guns to defend my house or family, and we didn't live in the "nice" part of town. Maybe you live in some slums, and in that case I can understand why you may think its necessary, but even hanging out in the barrios where I grew up I never thought a gun would do me any good.
We don't live in the wild west anymore, cowboy. Leave the gunslingin'-hero fetishes to John Wayne and Eastwood and get with the times. You want to argue safety, fine... let's argue safety.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
Quotethose persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home(adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/
QuoteHemenway’s conclusion is backed up by several recent studies, including those showing that the U.S. has the both highest gun death rate and highest gun ownership rate in the Western world, as well as another that showed that the states with the strictest gun ownership laws have the lowest rate of gun deaths.
Your move, cowboy. That's two sets of statistics proving you are simply dead wrong, three strikes and I might just get bored of laughing at you.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 15, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
Your move, cowboy. That's two sets of statistics proving you are simply dead wrong, three strikes and I might just get bored of laughing at you.
Got some more for him, but I doubt something like empirical evidence will change his mind, this IS an atheist forum after all (irony).
Property crime in the USA per 100,000 people: 2859 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States)
Property crime in Canada per 100,000 people: 2507 (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2013001/article/11854/c-g/desc/desc01-eng.htm)
The difference in numbers isn't huge but it's the severity of the violence in the crimes that really takes the cake. Refer the link given in my last reply.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 15, 2014, 02:07:34 PM
Again, tell me more about how the MAJORITY of gun related deaths are in gun-free zones and are mass shootings...
Stranger on stranger mass shootings, yep GFZ's
Quote from: Shiranu on April 15, 2014, 02:07:34 PMYou want to keep on throwing insults around, at least try having the evidence on your side. Otherwise you just look like a complete doucher and it makes me feel kinda bad for you.
That rich, accuse someone of insutls with an insurlts. The irony is too thick to cut.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 15, 2014, 02:07:34 PMAlso, are houses now GFZs, or are you just pulling that out of your ass? I am suspecting the latter...
So... "libtard" nations are astronomically safer to live in, the majority of gun violence does NOT take place in GFZ's and the majority of mass killings were the suspects murdering their family... you want to try again?
And this relates to most victims of murder know the killer. I'm not worried about those people, but I am concerned about the drug addict desperate to finance his habit deciding that my house is an easy target.
If your are so sure of your position post this in your front yard, let the criminals know that you are a unarmed willing victim. The obama sticker on your car will send the same message.
(http://www.theegglestongroup.com/writing/images/gun_free.gif)
Okay, fundie :).
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 14, 2014, 07:56:19 PM
And ended up killing only christians.
He was also a convicted felon and ineligible to own a firearm of any kind, but the libtards will be using this as another excuse to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
You're a dipshit. I have nothing else to discuss with you. You quote bumper sticker bullshit. *click*
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on April 15, 2014, 05:39:30 PM
You're a dipshit. I have nothing else to discuss with you. You quote bumper sticker bullshit. *click*
So what part of my post do you disagree with, besides the truth.
And really name calling, proof you ain't got squat, but you managed to fall back into it when you squatted.
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 15, 2014, 08:30:52 PM
So what part of my post do you disagree with, besides the truth.
And really name calling, proof you ain't got squat, but you managed to fall back into it when you squatted.
The part that disagrees with the statistics provided, so everything. Unless of course you're denying empirical evidence and taking a stance based on a belief system that is your own and has no basis in reality. Are you sure you're an atheist?
Quote from: Icarus on April 15, 2014, 08:36:35 PM
The part that disagrees with the statistics provided, so everything. Unless of course you're denying empirical evidence and taking a stance based on a belief system that is your own and has no basis in reality. Are you sure you're an atheist?
He killed 3 people, none were Jews, all were christians. WTF the dude, how hard is that to comprehend, this mental midget failed in his hate, as you in yours.
QuoteHe killed 3 people, none were Jews, all were christians. WTF the dude, how hard is that to comprehend, this mental midget failed in his hate, as you in yours.
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1845237/carlton-dance.gif)
Giggidy doo, I think we met the man with the world's shortest memory!
(http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a603/a603.gif?v11301bss2)
Quote from: Shiranu on April 15, 2014, 09:44:59 PM
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1845237/carlton-dance.gif)
Giggidy doo, I think we met the man with the world's shortest memory!
Perhaps you should consider suing your remedial reading teacher for utter incompetency.
http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/story/d/story/jewish-center-shooting-victims-were-christians/83615/p_1q97xESEeNB4LBfM9WJQ (http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/story/d/story/jewish-center-shooting-victims-were-christians/83615/p_1q97xESEeNB4LBfM9WJQ)
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 15, 2014, 10:43:36 PM
Perhaps you should consider suing your remedial reading teacher for utter incompetency.
http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/story/d/story/jewish-center-shooting-victims-were-christians/83615/p_1q97xESEeNB4LBfM9WJQ (http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/story/d/story/jewish-center-shooting-victims-were-christians/83615/p_1q97xESEeNB4LBfM9WJQ)
Hypocrisy for the win.
Statistics say otherwise, cowboy :). Of course a good atheist like yourself don't really care anything about evidence, do ya?
On the one hand, statistics correlate countries with the most relaxed gun laws with the most gun crime. On the other hand, correlation is not causation, and you can have my gun when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
Is anyone here a happy medium in this? A gun owner who owns, what according to the news is, an assault rifle but is in favor of reasonable gun regulations? Come on! Raise your hands...anyone?...I'm the only one I'm the only one raising my hand? Nevermind...
Quote from: Shiranu on April 15, 2014, 11:03:24 PM
Statistics say otherwise, cowboy :). Of course a good atheist like yourself don't really care anything about evidence, do ya?
I congratulate you for the self-awareness that allows you to openly and un-apologetically embrace your ignorance.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 16, 2014, 12:50:22 AM
Is anyone here a happy medium in this? A gun owner who owns, what according to the news is, an assault rifle but is in favor of reasonable gun regulations?
That actually sounds reasonable. It'll never work.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 16, 2014, 12:50:22 AM
Is anyone here a happy medium in this? A gun owner who owns, what according to the news is, an assault rifle but is in favor of reasonable gun regulations? Come on! Raise your hands...anyone?...I'm the only one I'm the only one raising my hand? Nevermind...
And the difference between an assault rifle and a non-assault rifle is what? Oh yea, one is black and scary looking, the other isn't.
(http://i.imgur.com/yEq8u.jpg)
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 15, 2014, 08:50:13 PM
He killed 3 people, none were Jews, all were christians. WTF the dude, how hard is that to comprehend, this mental midget failed in his hate, as you in yours.
So 1 example trumps all statistics? Grasp at those straws, grasp quickly and stupidly.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 16, 2014, 12:50:22 AM
Is anyone here a happy medium in this? A gun owner who owns, what according to the news is, an assault rifle but is in favor of reasonable gun regulations? Come on! Raise your hands...anyone?...I'm the only one I'm the only one raising my hand? Nevermind...
I don't own an assault rifle (though I want to), but I do own about 9 guns and am in favour of gun regulations.
@Cowboy; cool story, you ignoring statistics makes me the ignorant one. Brilliant "logic" (see; projection) there.
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 16, 2014, 01:45:01 AM
And the difference between an assault rifle and a non-assault rifle is what? Oh yea, one is black and scary looking, the other isn't.
(http://i.imgur.com/yEq8u.jpg)
An assault rifle is full automatic, neither one of them is an assault rifle. The issue is whether we are safer with every person, train or not, having a hand gun, or full automatic rifle, not whether we have a right to do so. I had a boy in the neighborhood that my other son said he was pointing a gun at his brother's head. When I told him to give me the gun he said, "only out of my cold dead hands"---he almost got his wish. He told me he had been trained on how to use a gun safely. His gun was loaded by the way. He is now in prison after pointing a gun at a group of other boys who he shot at, and that beat the living crap out of him, and almost did take the gun out of his cold dead hands. I had a worker point a loaded 45 at my face being funny. I took it away and he said it wasn't loaded. He also pointed a Israeli full automatic at a man in a car who chased him back to the office. This guy has a full arsenal of even grenade launchers, and the last person that should even have a knife. There was another man I worked with that pointed a hand gun out of his truck window at a man who took it away and threw it in a lake. Both of these gun nuts belong to survivalist and gun clubs, and are well trained, one having been in the military. Solitary
Quote from: Feral Atheist on April 16, 2014, 01:45:01 AM
And the difference between an assault rifle and a non-assault rifle is what? Oh yea, one is black and scary looking, the other isn't.
(http://i.imgur.com/yEq8u.jpg)
A telescoping stock and a pistol grip are not simply cosmetic features. They are designed to make the rifle more ergonomic, especially in urban situations where a shorter stock and a pistol grip may turn the situation in your favor.
I'm a gun owner. I like being allowed to own assault rifles. I think that due to statistics more attention should be paid to pistols then rifles...just don't try to argue that tactical features are cosmetic when they very well aren't.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 16, 2014, 11:11:58 AM
I don't own an assault rifle (though I want to), but I do own about 9 guns and am in favour of gun regulations.
@Cowboy; cool story, you ignoring statistics makes me the ignorant one. Brilliant "logic" (see; projection) there.
Yeah. I don't own an actual assault rifle, but the media would call it one because they are ignorant of gun terminology in general. It's just a SKS. My next purchase will probably be a pistol or a shotgun, though if I get a pistol I want to get one of those biometric pistol safe things for when I'm not carrying.
FA, a longa way to run....
QuoteI think that due to statistics more attention should be paid to pistols then rifles...just don't try to argue that tactical features are cosmetic when they very well aren't.
Completely agreed. While I think "assault rifles" (more accurately any semi-automatic rifle, or even pistol) should be much harder to obtain and require much stricter regulations, the focus should really be on the weapon's that are statistically the biggest issue...pistols.
QuoteYeah. I don't own an actual assault rifle, but the media would call it one because they are ignorant of gun terminology in general. It's just a SKS. My next purchase will probably be a pistol or a shotgun, though if I get a pistol I want to get one of those biometric pistol safe things for when I'm not carrying.
Yeah, I have seen a bunch of modern pistols that have all sorts of pretty crafty safety mechanisms. I am not sold on them being safe enough though for everyone and their brother to have one though.
Forgot to respond to this...
QuoteAnd the difference between an assault rifle and a non-assault rifle is what? Oh yea, one is black and scary looking, the other isn't.
Cowboy, please stop watching Fox News for 10 seconds and realize how stupid you are making yourself look. Danke schoen.
Quote from: Shiranu on April 16, 2014, 01:05:29 PM
Yeah, I have seen a bunch of modern pistols that have all sorts of pretty crafty safety mechanisms. I am not sold on them being safe enough though for everyone and their brother to have one though.
I didn't mean a safety mechanism (the best safety mechanism is muzzle control, trigger control, and not being a fucking moron), but one of the actual safe boxes with a biometric feature. That way I can have the box in my room, in a place where children shouldn't be able to get it, but still be able to get to it quickly if need be. I have a gun safe, but it's big and bulky.
OKAY!!!
Back on topic, maybe it was mentioned previously, but were y'all aware the young man killed was the same lil kid claimed he met jebus and is the story behind "yes, there is a heaven"? Damn shame ole jebus wanted to talk to him face to face eh?
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 16, 2014, 01:16:22 PM
I didn't mean a safety mechanism (the best safety mechanism is muzzle control, trigger control, and not being a fucking moron), but one of the actual safe boxes with a biometric feature. That way I can have the box in my room, in a place where children shouldn't be able to get it, but still be able to get to it quickly if need be. I have a gun safe, but it's big and bulky.
Ohhh okay. That's pretty cool then.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on April 16, 2014, 12:50:22 AM
Is anyone here a happy medium in this? A gun owner who owns, what according to the news is, an assault rifle but is in favor of reasonable gun regulations? Come on! Raise your hands...anyone?...I'm the only one I'm the only one raising my hand? Nevermind...
Not enough people, apparently. This same discussion gets endlessly repeated with every shooting and no common ground ever seems to be recognized.