Athiest are the dumbest people. No Offence its just true.

[Blackleaf]

Yeah, I tend to ignore the really stupid ones in order to focus on those that are more important. So, if you feel I'm ignoring you a lot, now you know why.

Considering how many stupid posts you leave here every day, I'd think you'd be a fan of stupid posts. But that's not really why you ignored it, is it, Randy? See, when we see stupid posts from you, we love it. We pounce on you like a hungry lion. Stupid posts are fun because they're easy to defeat. You, on the other hand, are just pathetic. When you know you're beaten, you can't admit it. You dismiss it, you ignore it, or you change the subject. That's why you ignored my post, because you can't deny what I said to be true.

Atheists don't indoctrinate their children? Maybe.

Maybe what they fail to do is to teach their children an important truth (God exists) because they themselves are ignorant of this.

So, you say we are teaching our children something false. I say you are guilty of omitting something true.

So you're admitting you were wrong about atheists indoctrinating their children?

[Randy Carson]

Considering how many stupid posts you leave here every day, I'd think you'd be a fan of stupid posts. But that's not really why you ignored it, is it, Randy?

I read all but consciously choose not to respond to some posts due time constraints. There are more of you than I can get to if I tried to respond to every post.

If you see me respond, it's because I thought it deserved a response. Sorry if many of yours are skipped.

See, when we see stupid posts from you, we love it. We pounce on you like a hungry lion. Stupid posts are fun because they're easy to defeat.

Oh, good. Because when so many people have been saying things like, "I'm done with you" and "This is tiresome", etc., I was afraid you folks aren't enjoying having me here.

You, on the other hand, are just pathetic. When you know you're beaten, you can't admit it. You dismiss it, you ignore it, or you change the subject. That's why you ignored my post, because you can't deny what I said to be true.

Provide the link or post number, and I'll deal with that post now. I certainly wouldn't want you to think you're being ignored.

So you're admitting you were wrong about atheists indoctrinating their children?

I think two things are true:

1. Atheists would have no reason to teach their kids that there are large numbers of people who believe that God exists any more than theists would have for teaching their kids that you exist.
2. Atheists fail to teach their kids about God which is ultimately (eternally) harmful if the child is not able to correct this deficiency later in life.

This just occurred to me, so I'm going to give it a try.

Do Democrats teach their kids about Republicans? If so, is it done in a positive or negative light? And vice-versa.

That's probably the way it is between theists and atheists, too, with the difference being that theists are actually concerned about the eternal salvation of atheists whom they fear may be lost.

Atheists and Democrats are obviously not worried about what happens to the other side in the long run.

[Blackleaf]

I read all but consciously choose not to respond to some posts due time constraints. There are more of you than I can get to if I tried to respond to every post.

If you see me respond, it's because I thought it deserved a response. Sorry if many of yours are skipped.

See, if you would respond to people like this, you wouldn't evoke the anger of otherwise reasonable and calm people here. But instead, you choose to belittle others, and others to respond in kind.

If you recall, I actually used this excuse to defend you when you didn't immediately respond to another thread. I can't expect you to respond to every single post directed to you, even though you seem to put a lot of effort into doing just that. But here's the thing, there's a pattern to which posts you choose to ignore. It's not out of constraints for time, or the "worthiness" of your attention. You choose to ignore arguments that you have no decent explanation for. You dig yourself into holes, then try to abandon the argument when you know you've got nothing.

Oh, good. Because when so many people have been saying things like, "I'm done with you" and "This is tiresome", etc., I was afraid you folks aren't enjoying having me here.

That is on account of your arrogant attitude. It tends to get on people's nerves, but at the same time, some can't resist the urge to tear your weak arguments apart. If you were a kinder person, with a more respectful attitude, people would leave it alone much more easily.

Provide the link or post number, and I'll deal with that post now. I certainly wouldn't want you to think you're being ignored.

Oh, you wouldn't, would you? You must have dissociative personality disorder, then, because I recall you saying that you purposefully ignored my post because it was "stupid." But since you asked so nicely, #108.

I think two things are true:

1. Atheists would have no reason to teach their kids that there are large numbers of people who believe that God exists any more than theists would have for teaching their kids that you exist.
2. Atheists fail to teach their kids about God which is ultimately (eternally) harmful if the child is not able to correct this deficiency later in life.

In other words, yes. You were wrong. I didn't ask if atheists teach their kids about God or not; the question was if atheists indoctrinate their children.

Now, please, watch this video and answer these two questions:

1. Do Christians, in fact, indoctrinate their children, as shown in the video?

2. Do atheists do the same with their children?

Simple yes or no answers will suffice.

This just occurred to me, so I'm going to give it a try.

Do Democrats teach their kids about Republicans? If so, is it done in a positive or negative light? And vice-versa.

That's probably the way it is between theists and atheists, too, with the difference being that theists are actually concerned about the eternal salvation of atheists whom they fear may be lost.

Atheists and Democrats are obviously not worried about what happens to the other side in the long run.

That's a stupid argument, so I'm just going to consciously ignore it.

[Baruch]

See Randy ... you are turning this discussion political ... and how your totalitarianism is fighting what you perceive to be the other guy's totalitarianism.  Next you will be justifying Dominionism ... but of a Catholic kind ... to protect all the Catholic children from realities their parents can't deal with.  How Calvinist are you going to be?

[sdelsolray]

Yes, without regular and frequent indoctrination of children, along with high doses of peer pressure, Randall's fantasies will just fade away, except his sexual ones.  They'll still be there, unfulfilled.

[Baruch]

Some parents may use that paradigm to manipulate their kids. Mine didn't. I didn't. But your experience may differ.

Atheists teach their kids a worldview. It's just a different worldview than Christian or Muslim or Hindu parents teach.

I raised my child to think for herself.  This was to offset the inevitable circumstances of being a preacher's kid.

[Randy Carson]

Atheists do not indoctrinate their children.

Blanket generalizations are awfully hard to prove, aren't they? Are you sure there aren't little atheist kids going home from their friends houses and asking mom why they don't go to Vacation Bible School like all their friends? And then Dad explains that there is no God, blah, blah, blah?

That NEVER, EVER happens?

Wow. That would be impressive. If true. But I doubt it.

They do not take them to atheist meetings, where they are taught from a young age with songs and skits to think the same way.

Oh? Isn't that kind of what the public school system is like today? A godless, secular indoctrination into relativism and political correctness?

But okay, I agree. You don't have organized meetings. You have Internet forums, but no Sunday School classes.

They are not schooled from home so that they won't be exposed to theists who would compromise their lack of faith.

There are no atheist homeschoolers? Again, how do you know that not a single atheist family homeschools? But I get your point, and the answer is simple: although it has not always the case, the public school system is geared more for the atheist than for the Christian family at this point. So, why would you need to homeschool? If your point is correct, then you should have been homeschools 50 years ago, when teachers were still believers.

They do not give their children atheist books to read.

So, no atheist parent has ever given his or her kid a copy of a book by Nietzsche or Dawkins or Hitchens? These books aren't already in the home? Atheist kids don't learn by observation that mom and dad read some authors and scream at the television when some other people are on? Maybe, but this is not very likely...

Before eating, they do not remind them that there is no god to pray to for blessings.

Right. Atheists teach their kids that they have anyone to thank but themselves. And if the kid says, "Dad, why do we pray at grandma's house but not here?", what do you suppose Dad says in response?

Those are all things YOU do so that your children will grow up unable to question their beliefs, so that they will blindly accept with childlike faith in something that an adult with full mental capacities would most often reject.

Gee, I thought this forum is chock-full of former Christians who grew up and WERE able to question their beliefs and to reject their childhood faith. If so, then while their parents taught them differently, they have been able to make decisions for themselves, after all.

Just like there are atheists who have studied the evidence and become believers.

Here's a video. I know you don't actually watch the videos I put here for you, but do watch this one. It shows perfectly why Christians must indoctrinate their children:

You're right. I don't watch recommended YouTube videos. A standing policy for years. I might read a book you recommend, but YouTube is filled with a lot of crap that cannot be verified. Books have the sort of permanence that allow for counterarguments to be developed and published.

And, I've had too many nasty, blasphemous videos thrown at me to want to open another one. Sorry...others before you poisoned the well.

+++

And now, the infamous "skipped post" has been addressed. Cheers.

[Blackleaf]

Blanket generalizations are awfully hard to prove, aren't they? Are you sure there aren't little atheist kids going home from their friends houses and asking mom why they don't go to Vacation Bible School like all their friends? And then Dad explains that there is no God, blah, blah, blah?

That NEVER, EVER happens?

Wow. That would be impressive. If true. But I doubt it.

Here, you prove yourself incompetent to even understand what "indoctrination" means. Tell me, would you send your kids to a Muslim mosque if their friends were Muslim so that they were be exposed to Islam and choose freely between it and Christianity? Wow. That would be impressive. If true. But I doubt it. (Moron.)

Oh? Isn't that kind of what the public school system is like today? A godless, secular indoctrination into relativism and political correctness?

Well, since my Christian parents homeschooled me, let's ask someone who was raised going to public school. Guys, did your public school teachers tell you that there is no god? Did they tell you that you were not allowed to think for yourself?

Yeah, I doubt it. In reality, children who are raised in public schooled are exposed to the real world, and thus are more likely to discard the stupid things their closed-minded, homophobic, piece of shit parents tell them.

There are no atheist homeschoolers? Again, how do you know that not a single atheist family homeschools? But I get your point, and the answer is simple: although it has not always the case, the public school system is geared more for the atheist than for the Christian family at this point. So, why would you need to homeschool? If your point is correct, then you should have been homeschools 50 years ago, when teachers were still believers.

Another classic deflection strategy of yours. Appeal to the hypothetical exception and you can ignore the point. Yes, teachers a long time ago helped parents to indoctrinate their children, thanks to their biased classroom environments. Now that we have the separation of church and state properly applied, you have to homeschool your kids, lest they be allowed to think.

So, no atheist parent has ever given his or her kid a copy of a book by Nietzsche or Dawkins or Hitchens? These books aren't already in the home? Atheist kids don't learn by observation that mom and dad read some authors and scream at the television when some other people are on? Maybe, but this is not very likely...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, yeah! I'm sure a TON of parents give their children a copy of "The God Delusion" for a little light reading before bed. God, you are delusional!

Right. Atheists teach their kids that they have anyone to thank but themselves. And if the kid says, "Dad, why do we pray at grandma's house but not here?", what do you suppose Dad says in response?

Gee, I don't know. Maybe something like, "Because we worship the true lord and master, SATAN!!!"

Gee, I thought this forum is chock-full of former Christians who grew up and WERE able to question their beliefs and to reject their childhood faith. If so, then while their parents taught them differently, they have been able to make decisions for themselves, after all.

Just like there are atheists who have studied the evidence and become believers.

Once again, you appeal to the EXCEPTION and treat it as if it's the norm, and you think this disproves my point. It doesn't. Christians who are indoctrinated from birth are DIFFICULT to convince. Some of them are able to break free of their religious programming, but they are the exception to the rule. Just as it is an exception that an atheist would be stupid enough to buy the ridiculous claims that Christians have to offer.

You're right. I don't watch recommended YouTube videos. A standing policy for years. I might read a book you recommend, but YouTube is filled with a lot of crap that cannot be verified. Books have the sort of permanence that allow for counterarguments to be developed and published.

And, I've had too many nasty, blasphemous videos thrown at me to want to open another one. Sorry...others before you poisoned the well.

Convenient policy that is, isn't it? Watch the video, you fucking coward.

And now, the infamous "skipped post" has been addressed. Cheers.

Nope. You still failed to address any of my points. You simple evaded, changed subjects, and appealed to ignorance (the hypothetical exception), and haven't discredited a single point of mine. But I can see that you're hurting your little brain trying so hard. We can stop here if you need a break.

[Randy Carson]

Here, you prove yourself incompetent to even understand what "indoctrination" means. Tell me, would you send your kids to a Muslim mosque if their friends were Muslim so that they were be exposed to Islam and choose freely between it and Christianity? Wow. That would be impressive. If true. But I doubt it. (Moron.)

Well, since my Christian parents homeschooled me, let's ask someone who was raised going to public school. Guys, did your public school teachers tell you that there is no god? Did they tell you that you were not allowed to think for yourself?

Yeah, I doubt it. In reality, children who are raised in public schooled are exposed to the real world, and thus are more likely to discard the stupid things their closed-minded, homophobic, piece of shit parents tell them.

Another classic deflection strategy of yours. Appeal to the hypothetical exception and you can ignore the point. Yes, teachers a long time ago helped parents to indoctrinate their children, thanks to their biased classroom environments. Now that we have the separation of church and state properly applied, you have to homeschool your kids, lest they be allowed to think.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, yeah! I'm sure a TON of parents give their children a copy of "The God Delusion" for a little light reading before bed. God, you are delusional!

Gee, I don't know. Maybe something like, "Because we worship the true lord and master, SATAN!!!"

Once again, you appeal to the EXCEPTION and treat it as if it's the norm, and you think this disproves my point. It doesn't. Christians who are indoctrinated from birth are DIFFICULT to convince. Some of them are able to break free of their religious programming, but they are the exception to the rule. Just as it is an exception that an atheist would be stupid enough to buy the ridiculous claims that Christians have to offer.

Convenient policy that is, isn't it? Watch the video, you fucking coward.

Nope. You still failed to address any of my points. You simple evaded, changed subjects, and appealed to ignorance (the hypothetical exception), and haven't discredited a single point of mine. But I can see that you're hurting your little brain trying so hard. We can stop here if you need a break.

Oh. Okay.

[Blackleaf]

Oh. Okay.

Wow. How insightful.

Let me put it this way. Either you watch that video and directly address the questions I gave you, or admit that you're not willing to do it because you know you're wrong.

[Randy Carson]

Wow. How insightful.

Let me put it this way. Either you watch that video and directly address the questions I gave you, or admit that you're not willing to do it because you know you're wrong.

Would you watch a 5-7 minute video of my choosing in exchange for this?

Fair deal?

[Blackleaf]

Would you watch a 5-7 minute video of my choosing in exchange for this?

Fair deal?

It's not like the video is going to fill your head with subliminal messages, and you'll wake up in the middle of doing a Satanic ritual in your sleep. It's a short video, with no vulgarity, no cheap shots, and just simple logic. No need to hold it for ransom. If, however, you have a relevant video on the topic to offer, that isn't too long, I'll watch it (and likely tear it a new one with all of its errors).

[Randy Carson]

Atheists do not indoctrinate their children. They do not take them to atheist meetings, where they are taught from a young age with songs and skits to think the same way. They are not schooled from home so that they won't be exposed to theists who would compromise their lack of faith. They do not give their children atheist books to read. Before eating, they do not remind them that there is no god to pray to for blessings. Those are all things YOU do so that your children will grow up unable to question their beliefs, so that they will blindly accept with childlike faith in something that an adult with full mental capacities would most often reject.

Here's a video. I know you don't actually watch the videos I put here for you, but do watch this one. It shows perfectly why Christians must indoctrinate their children:

So...he's kind of an atheist CPJ Grey.

Well let's review. Marcus believes a ridiculous claim because of his parents, society, culture, holidays, buildings that have been erected, the uniforms of clergy, schools, artwork, etc.

And the promise of heaven as well as the threat of hell reinforce the ridiculous claim. Marcus is motivated to share the ridiculous claim with others.

Anyone who says anything in opposition to the ridiculous claim will be ostracized or worse.

The truth is out there. It does not depend on all the "tricks" and conventions employed by those who believe the ridiculous claim.

The author of the video then goes on to thank all those who have subscribed to his channel. He then lists all the people who are financially supporting his work. (Now, there's a motive!)

+++

So, Blackleaf, have I summarized the video sufficiently enough for you to agree that I actually watched it from beginning to end? (I actually paused it, took notes, and restarted it several times to make sure my notes were correct.)

[Gerard]

I have a six year old niece who hears things at school and she told me the other day: I believe that Jesus existed..... but not the other stuff.

Gerard

[Randy Carson]

I have a six year old niece who hears things at school and she told me the other day: I believe that Jesus existed..... but not the other stuff.

Gerard

That is fair, Gerard. Merely existing is not enough, is it? We can't even begin to examine WHAT the gospels say about Jesus until we have reason to believe that they are trustworthy. Consequently, I have presented material in multiple threads that cover the following foundational questions:

1. The texts of the gospels we have today are extremely accurate reconstructions of the original, inspired autograph manuscripts. We know what the authors wrote.
2. The gospels were written early enough to have been authored by actual eyewitnesses. We know that the authors were present at the scene.
3. The gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. We know that the authors were authoritative eyewitnesses.
4. The gospels were corroborated by non-biblical sources. We know that Jewish and Roman historians provide enemy attestation of key points from the gospels.