Since they can't seem to stop the scandal we should not stop pointing their perversions out!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/world/europe/pope-francis-bishop-alexander-salazar-los-angeles.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
QuotePope Ousts Los Angeles Bishop After Allegation of Misconduct with a Minor
The fuckers never seem to be in a hurry!
QuoteArchbishop Gomez, who took over in Los Angeles in 2011, acknowledged that the archdiocese had known of the accusation against Bishop Salazar since 2005, a year after he had been ordained a bishop, but had allowed him to keep working.
The current pope, Francis, was just a PR move on the part of the RCC to improve their image. It worked, too, to a large extent. But his "sweetness" is wearing off now, I think.
He's a phony like all the rest of the pervert bastards.
Yeah, no telling how much "fondling" he's gotten away with over decades.
And now, Illinois.
Time to start locking these motherfuckers up!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/illinois-attorney-general-catholic-church-priest-abuse.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
QuoteIllinois Attorney General Says Catholic Church Withheld Names of at Least 500 Accused Priests
So much for the "it was just a handfull" bullshit.
How could these priests possibly believe that their God was watching them abuse those children? I submit that they do not believe in any God at all, they just use the idea for their convenience.
Quote from: Martin BuberSince the primary motive of the evil is disguise, one of the places where evil people are most likely to be found is within the Church. What better way to conceal one's evil from oneself, as well as from others, than to be a deacon or some other highly visible form of Christian within our culture?...I do not mean to imply that the evil are anything other than a small minority among the religious or that the religious motives of most people are in any way spurious. I mean only that evil people gravitate toward piety for the disguise and concealment it can offer them.
Same as drifting into PC, in politics.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 19, 2018, 06:38:06 PM
How could these priests possibly believe that their God was watching them abuse those children? I submit that they do not believe in any God at all, they just use the idea for their convenience.
My usual assumption is that religious representatives would be used car salesmen if there wasn't a religious flock to fleece.
But the sex stuff is different. I don't know what drives all these religious figures to abuse children. OK, they are sexually frustrated, but there is something else involved... I don't know what it is. Heirarchy? God-given rights? An escape from insanity?
Quote from: Cavebear on December 21, 2018, 09:10:43 AM
My usual assumption is that religious representatives would be used car salesmen if there wasn't a religious flock to fleece.
But the sex stuff is different. I don't know what drives all these religious figures to abuse children. OK, they are sexually frustrated, but there is something else involved... I don't know what it is. Heirarchy? God-given rights? An escape from insanity?
Tradition! - Tevye.
Quote from: Cavebear on December 21, 2018, 09:10:43 AM
My usual assumption is that religious representatives would be used car salesmen if there wasn't a religious flock to fleece.
But the sex stuff is different. I don't know what drives all these religious figures to abuse children. OK, they are sexually frustrated, but there is something else involved... I don't know what it is. Heirarchy? God-given rights? An escape from insanity?
Opportunism preying on the most vulnerable among us. The path of least resistance.
Quote from: Baruch on December 21, 2018, 12:35:50 PM
Tradition! - Tevye.
You are too often pathetic. And yes I get the reference...
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 21, 2018, 02:15:16 PM
Opportunism preying on the most vulnerable among us. The path of least resistance.
Any intelligent predator would agree. If you are not a predator, then you have earned a Darwin Award.
Cavebear ... no, you wouldn't get it in a million years. You aren't Jewish. You aren't religious. You aren't traditional. You are like the man who has never been to NYC, telling some rubes all about it. A bit like Paul.
Quote from: Baruch on December 21, 2018, 07:08:44 PM
Cavebear ... no, you wouldn't get it in a million years. You aren't Jewish. You aren't religious. You aren't traditional. You are like the man who has never been to NYC, telling some rubes all about it. A bit like Paul.
I disagree. Yes, I'm not Jewish. But my ancestors lived in pathetic sod one-room huts in England and were consigned to sons following fathers in trade forever, daughters married off in arrangements, and the families living under the will of overlords.
In the US, my ancestors worked farms that barely kept them alive, or went to the textile mills in NE living the same lives as yours. Don't tell me I don't understand...
And try life as an atheist sometime. Look at this link and note the scale on the right if you don't want to bother to read the text.
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/ (http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/)
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 19, 2018, 06:38:06 PM
How could these priests possibly believe that their God was watching them abuse those children? I submit that they do not believe in any God at all, they just use the idea for their convenience.
When you think that you and god are best buds it is easy to convince yourself that he understands your urges.
The problem with religitards throughout history, it seems.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 25, 2018, 09:00:34 PM
When you think that you and god are best buds it is easy to convince yourself that he understands your urges.
The problem with religitards throughout history, it seems.
Not being able to read minds, I am constantly torn between the ideas the adherents to religions actually believe this nonsense, or whether they just societally-adaptive and follow the crowd.
My thoughts about the LEADERS of religions is a bit worse. Split somewhere between deluded idiots and con-artists who don't want to work for a living...
Quote from: Cavebear on December 25, 2018, 08:41:13 PM
I disagree. Yes, I'm not Jewish. But my ancestors lived in pathetic sod one-room huts in England and were consigned to sons following fathers in trade forever, daughters married off in arrangements, and the families living under the will of overlords.
In the US, my ancestors worked farms that barely kept them alive, or went to the textile mills in NE living the same lives as yours. Don't tell me I don't understand...
And try life as an atheist sometime. Look at this link and note the scale on the right if you don't want to bother to read the text.
http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/ (http://www.pewforum.org/2014/07/16/how-americans-feel-about-religious-groups/)
So ... feel like everyone wants to kill you? That is pretty Jewish, bro!
Quote from: Cavebear on December 25, 2018, 10:15:58 PM
Not being able to read minds, I am constantly torn between the ideas the adherents to religions actually believe this nonsense, or whether they just societally-adaptive and follow the crowd.
My thoughts about the LEADERS of religions is a bit worse. Split somewhere between deluded idiots and con-artists who don't want to work for a living...
isn't that a false dichotomy? Did you consciously decide as a pre-schooler, to adopt English? Once you were helpless as a baby ... and all of you is built on that poor beginning. Same with all of us.
And aren't religitards lucky to be born and raised in the one place where the "one true god" is worshiped? Oddly, or perhaps not, they all think that way.
Quote from: Minimalist on December 29, 2018, 06:18:50 PM
And aren't religitards lucky to be born and raised in the one place where the "one true god" is worshiped? Oddly, or perhaps not, they all think that way.
Polytheism is much more sensible.
And as usual the motherfucking perverts in dresses don't get it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/04/homosexuality-blame-sexual-abuse-not-catholic-church-claims/
QuoteHomosexuality is to blame for sexual abuse, not Catholic church, claims German cardinal
I wonder. Is there a bishop anywhere who is not a complete scumbag?
Were those homosexuals who covered up and empowered the abuse for decades? Or was it centuries?
Quote from: Minimalist on January 04, 2019, 01:30:43 PM
Homosexuality is to blame for sexual abuse, not Catholic church, claims German cardinal
Bacteria are to blame for infection, not the staff who ignored infection control protocols, claimed the hospital administrator.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 04, 2019, 01:30:43 PM
And as usual the motherfucking perverts in dresses don't get it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/04/homosexuality-blame-sexual-abuse-not-catholic-church-claims/
I wonder. Is there a bishop anywhere who is not a complete scumbag?
Authorities in general are scumbags. The whole bishop thing was a bad idea ... see Ignatius of Antioch, executed 107 CE.
Probably another Xtian fraud.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 19, 2018, 01:32:17 PM
The current pope, Francis, was just a PR move on the part of the RCC to improve their image. It worked, too, to a large extent.
I've been saying that for years.
There was a time when the PR campaign was at its apex, even a few people here were singing his praises and wondering aloud if my ongoing wariness towards the Vatican was misplaced, perhaps even pathological.
Instead, I simply figured that headlines from "brave" statements absent any policy changes amounts to nothing and is more likely than not just a PR ploy. Called it.
I really wish that I had been wrong, though.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 04, 2019, 10:52:31 PM
I've been saying that for years.
There was a time when the PR campaign was at its apex, even a few people here were singing his praises and wondering aloud if my ongoing wariness towards the Vatican was misplaced, perhaps even pathological.
Instead, I simply figured that headlines from "brave" statements absent any policy changes amounts to nothing and is more likely than not just a PR ploy. Called it.
I really wish that I had been wrong, though.
What does Catholic mean? It means that what they do, they have done, from the beginning. And that what they do is universally done throughout the Western Roman Empire. It isn't sectarian or heretical. Which is to mean, in their lights, that it is perfect ... and therefore unchangeable. You see this same thing with the Eastern Roman Empire churches. And with Islam and Orthodox Judaism. It means, we are right, you are wrong, and we won't be changing ever. In that ontology, progress is inconceivable.
So pretty much any "change" has to be window dressing. That is why they had a paroxysm over Pope John XXIII eliminating the Latin mass.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 04, 2019, 10:52:31 PM
I've been saying that for years.
There was a time when the PR campaign was at its apex, even a few people here were singing his praises and wondering aloud if my ongoing wariness towards the Vatican was misplaced, perhaps even pathological.
Instead, I simply figured that headlines from "brave" statements absent any policy changes amounts to nothing and is more likely than not just a PR ploy. Called it.
I really wish that I had been wrong, though.
It is unlikely that any atheists ever held out any hope that any Pope would be essentially rational. What are the odds? Its likelier that Conservative US Republicans would choose a Putin puppet as their leader. Oh wait. That seems to have happened... Sorry. Nevermind...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 05, 2019, 04:30:14 AM
It is unlikely that any atheists ever held out any hope that any Pope would be essentially rational. What are the odds? Its likelier that Conservative US Republicans would choose a Putin puppet as their leader. Oh wait. That seems to have happened... Sorry. Nevermind...
The Dems did ... Obama/Uranium One.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 04, 2019, 10:52:31 PM
I really wish that I had been wrong, though.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I often wish I were wrong about this, that, or the other thing. It sucks being a pessimist and being so often proved right.
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 05, 2019, 02:31:42 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean. I often wish I were wrong about this, that, or the other thing. It sucks being a pessimist and being so often proved right.
Let being "right" be the reward. Sometimes, it is all we have.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 05, 2019, 03:02:34 PM
Let being "right" be the reward. Sometimes, it is all we have.
Humanity is a clear failure. There is no "right".
So we have an organization who claims they are moral authority of the world and they say "masturbation is considered to be objectively disordered and intrinsically evil" while it defends hundreds of priests who performed sex acts with children.
Yeah, not buying it.
A third of US Catholics think priests are not honest or ethical (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/11/a-third-of-us-catholics-think-priests-are-not-honest-or-ethical)
The proportion of US Catholics who regard priests as honest and ethical has plummeted to a record low of fewer than one in three, according to a survey.
The fall of 18 percentage points between 2017 and 2018 is attributed to the last year’s scandals over clerical sexual abuse.
Fewer than half of the Catholics surveyed by Gallup said they had confidence in organised religion, a drop of eight percentage points over the period.
The poll was conducted four months after the publication of a scathing grand jury report into sexual abuse and its cover-up by Catholic priests and bishops in Pennsylvania.
An investigation found that at least 300 priests had abused about 1,000 children and vulnerable adults over 70 years, and that their superiors had either stood by or in some cases actively covered up criminal acts. ...
And it didn't start 70 years ago, it's been going on for centuries.
Quote
A third of US Catholics think priests are not honest or ethical
Which makes me wonder WTF is wrong with the other two thirds.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 11, 2019, 06:00:11 PM
Which makes me wonder WTF is wrong with the other two thirds.
The attempt to eliminate sexual urges in the name of "purity" leads to inappropriate outlets.
I doubt that married priests would be so "disturbed" in their limited opportunities for sex. On the other hand, that so many religious authorities would molest children says a lot about the damaging thoughts that religion creates.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 03:18:31 AM
The attempt to eliminate sexual urges in the name of "purity" leads to inappropriate outlets.
I doubt that married priests would be so "disturbed" in their limited opportunities for sex. On the other hand, that so many religious authorities would molest children says a lot about the damaging thoughts that religion creates.
Correct. But pedophiles would still have those urges. And by far, the unannounced problem is priests with women and girls.
Quote from: Baruch on January 12, 2019, 08:02:49 AM
Correct. But pedophiles would still have those urges. And by far, the unannounced problem is priests with women and girls.
No, I'm claiming that the very structure of denying priests a normal life causes it. Religion (and note that for once I'm saying "religion" rather than "a deity") is the cause...
"Religion" is where "belief" and "organization" combine to fuck up (literally)...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
No, I'm claiming that the very structure of denying priests a normal life causes it. Religion (and note that for once I'm saying "religion" rather than "a deity") is the cause...
"Religion" is where "belief" and "organization" combine to fuck up (literally)...
So only celibates are pedophiles? Not saying I endorse priest celibacy ... I have always opposed it, so does the E Orthodox Church and Protestantism.
QuoteThe pope signaled his intention to harness the power of technology to reach out to young people by launching a prayer app three days before he will attend a Catholic youth festival in Panama.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/prayer-pope-francis-launches-click-pray-app-unite/story?id=60519749
https://clicktopray.org/
This will make it so much easier for God-botherers to - uh...bother God. Ain't technology grand?
Apparently the RCC wants to "reach out to young people." Sure, what's wrong with that? They've been doing that for a long time, and only recently got in a bit of a kerfuffle for it...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 12, 2019, 10:04:55 AM
No, I'm claiming that the very structure of denying priests a normal life causes it. Religion (and note that for once I'm saying "religion" rather than "a deity") is the cause...
"Religion" is where "belief" and "organization" combine to fuck up (literally)...
Hmmm... I wonder CB. Don't you think that if you take a group of people and tell them that "god" thinks they are very special that it doesn't go to their heads? Throughout history priests have always considered themselves special.
QuoteCBS News correspondent Nikki Battiste joined CBSN to discuss new sexual abuse allegations in the Catholic Church. At least 18 people have come forward to say they were sexually abused by nuns. The alleged victims said they felt compelled to talk after a Pennsylvania grand jury identified hundreds of "pedophile priests."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xp9aEzhN3A
Ironic that Puritans (now atheists not Protestants) find Catholicism bad? There is no right/wrong, just like/dislike.
One of the prior reported abuses in Irish Catholic circles (in Ireland) was abuse of corporal punishment. Not as titillating as sexual abuse though.
So when will atheists begin the "dunking" of witches and "burning" of heretics?
"Moral Panic" is a thing in social cyclical history.
QuoteIreland wanted to forget, but the dead don't always stay buried. One woman made it her mission to unearth the truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoulaehrD_I
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Secours_Mother_and_Baby_Home
That kind of shit didn't just happen in Ireland:
Quote
This is the haunting story of children who survived horrors in American orphanages, and their fight to make the world believe them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o13yTTAeM30
Ah yes, but far better than orphanages, let's just have free sex, violation of marriage vows, abortion and infanticide. Of course one bad turn deserves another.
QuoteDr Marshall explains the reasons why Pope Benedict XVI resigned in 2013 by showing a four stage scandal beginning with Archbishop Vigano blowing the whistle on the Vatican Bank in 2009-2010 and how it escalated into Benedict's resignation in 2013. It also explains the election of Pope Francis and frames the recent testimony of Vigano against Pope Francis on August 26 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q2HSJ6cbMY
Vatican and politicians never learn, the coverup is worse than the original sin ;-)
I don't know. In this case the original sin is pretty fucking bad. And they no longer seem able to keep the coverup going.
This didn't just begin a few decades ago, but many centuries. It has become ingrained in their culture, with them thinking they were immune to suspicion or consequences. Does anyone really think they believe in a God that was watching their vile activity the whole time they were doing it?
I don't.
QuoteA court-ordered suppression order has been lifted, revealing Cardinal George Pell was found guilty of five historical sex abuse charges last year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vQWQM4dlaw
They had to wait until now to be able to report on this. Too bad there isn't really a hell for people like this to burn in.
I hope this is a trend.
Hell is real, and since we are all imperfect, we are all going there. See ... I don't believe in redemption/forgiveness. Otherwise damnation is useless.
Quote from: Minimalist on January 23, 2019, 03:38:14 PM
Hmmm... I wonder CB. Don't you think that if you take a group of people and tell them that "god" thinks they are very special that it doesn't go to their heads? Throughout history priests have always considered themselves special.
That is certainly true. Next to surgeons, no one is more full of themselves than priests. On the other hand, no group of people show less true understanding of reality. If it were up to me, I would forbid any priest coming with 500' of a child or a school. They are just too sexually warped.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 23, 2019, 05:37:11 PM
This didn't just begin a few decades ago, but many centuries. It has become ingrained in their culture, with them thinking they were immune to suspicion or consequences. Does anyone really think they believe in a God that was watching their vile activity the whole time they were doing it?
I don't.
One could rationally consider that priestly perversions are a direct consequence of the "celibate" life demanded of them. Entirely unnatural lives result in entirely unnatural responses.
Quote from: Unbeliever on February 25, 2019, 08:19:53 PM
They had to wait until now to be able to report on this. Too bad there isn't really a hell for people like this to burn in.
I hope this is a trend.
I wouldn't wish eternal hell on anyone. That doesn't mean I haven't considered the idea. Just that I decided against it. A couple years maybe. Possible even a few seconds.
I agree on un-natural celibacy as warping. But your language sounded parallel to rhetoric against gays.
Quote from: Baruch on February 26, 2019, 06:37:17 AM
I agree on un-natural celibacy as warping. But your language sounded parallel to rhetoric against gays.
You would think that. And I mean "you". You always miss the point.
QuoteNext to surgeons, no one is more full of themselves than priests.
You reminded me of a joke, C/B.
QuoteA doctor dies and gets to the gates of heaven only to find himself on a long line. He demands to jump to the head of the line only to be turned back by St. Peter who tells him to be quiet and wait his turn. A few moments later someone in a white coat carrying a doctor's bag scurries past the line and St. Peter opens the gates for him. Our doctor protests but St. Peter explains, “that’s God,†St. Peter explains. “He just thinks he’s a doctor.â€
If I may butt in, Catholics do not represent true Christianity. They have warped the truth until it’s unrecognizable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 02, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
If I may butt in, Catholics do not represent true Christianity. They have warped the truth until it’s unrecognizable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your religion is simply a fiction. That includes your god and all his different forms, such as jesus. But, as usual for a theist, you are wrong. The catholics were the 'first' christians. And their form of fiction is just as valid as your fiction. The 'truth'??? What a laugh...................
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (This was many years before Catholicism
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 02, 2019, 11:30:03 PM
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (This was many years before Catholicism
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There were mostly Messianic Jews, some of which followed Paul, some who followed Peter etc. Paul was different, in that on his ekklesia you could join without converting to Judaism first. The division being the question of circumcision. ME men were commonly circumcised, not just Jews. Other people regarding circumcision with abhorrence. That is the difference between ekklesia and synagogue ... ekklesia is an open assembly of all, synagogue is the assembly of a minority. You can guess which one proved more popular with Gentiles.
The majority of Messianic Jews of all types, having been destroyed by other Jewish factions and by the Romans, by 135 CE ... this only left pacifist Messianic Jews and non-Messianic Jews (who became the Rabbinic faction). Paul's pacifists eventually triumphed over the others, because of being open to Gentile membership, and being basically a do-it-yourself welfare agency (the only one available). See the discussion early in Acts, regarding the food bank in Jerusalem.
Without the adoption of Orthodox Christianity (not Catholic) by Constantine, Christianity might be a movement, but not a major religion. With Constantine, and later Theodosius and Justinian (all Byzantine Emperors) we have institutional Christianity. Of course Christians (mostly Gentiles by this time anyway) had lost a lot of their distinctive culture, having made this bargain with Satan (establishment of Church vs private house churches).
Lesser versions of "establishment" having happened around this time outside the Roman Empire, in Armenia and Ethiopia. The Christians in Persian lands (Nsetorians) never having reached a critical mass necessary for "establishment", though they evangelized as far as India and China. Nestorians in the ME being overrun not long after, by Islam.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 02, 2019, 11:30:03 PM
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (This was many years before Catholicism
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's nice. Was it many years? How do you know? Did not your fictional jesus found the church with peter the head--at least that is one version from the bible (which is a work of fiction, as well).
So is the book of Acts of the Apostles a work of fiction, written long after the purported events.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 03, 2019, 01:17:37 PM
So is the book of Acts of the Apostles a work of fiction, written long after the purported events.
Yes, Jerusalem and Jews never existed ;-) That was a Roman Alex Jones saying that.
Are you guys confident in your unbelief? I’m new here so I don’t know if you all are jiving or really don’t believe in God?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am.
No believer in any invisible sky-daddy has ever been able to produce evidence that said sky-daddy exists.
It is a record of failure which is unsurpassed in human history!
Go down to the airport, look over all the jets and planes, then tell me there was no creator of those flying machines. Take a look at the Big Dipper, your hand, a DNA helix info strand and the info reader that reads it, and then tell me there is no God, and it all just fell out of a primordial swamp somewhere ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So in one short post we have learned that you know fuckall about engineering, biology, and astrophysics.
Poland - Harry Potter books burned by Polish priests alarmed by magic
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47771706
"We obey the Word"
Aren't you alarmed by magic?!
Quote from: Minimalist on April 04, 2019, 02:00:03 AM
So in one short post we have learned that you know fuckall about engineering, biology, and astrophysics.
Aerospace engineers created those planes. Not SJWs.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 01:44:17 AM
Are you guys confident in your unbelief? I’m new here so I don’t know if you all are jiving or really don’t believe in God?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Since you are posting to an atheist board, what is it you expect? Do you know what 'atheist' means? Can your read? Since you are a theist, we already know you have faulty reasoning, at best. And are you 'jiving' me that you really do believe in a real, factual god? Really????
"Troll" seems like a very good possibility, Mike.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 01:44:17 AM
Are you guys confident in your unbelief? I’m new here so I don’t know if you all are jiving or really don’t believe in God?
Yes, I'm very comfortable with my unbelief, since I've given it a lot of thought and feel that I have very good reasons to not believe in any God - but especially the Judeo/Christian/Islamic version of a God as described in the Bible/Quran.
How confident are you with your belief in God?
Jonathan, I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot of gods you don't believe in, such as Zeus, Shiva, etc., so you know what it feels like to not believe in those gods. That's how it is for me to not believe in your god. For a long time people believed in many gods, and now they only believe in one, so at least they're getting closer to the truth.
Well , that’s a lot to respond to, but I am very comfortable in my beliefs. After all, religion is the opioid of the masses, right ;) As far as those other Gods, they all stem from Nimrod. As for Jehovah God, there is an astronomical amount of evidence that He exists. As far as objectively, the heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork. There is so much design in our world it is beyond the possibility that it is by chance. You have to have more faith to believe their is no God, than there is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is What the Bible's God is really like (http://nullgod.com/index.php?topic=164.0).
*God creates evil
*God does evil
*God brings evil
*God sends evil spirits
*God lies
*God tells people to lie
*God rewards liars
*God killed repeatedly
*God killed over 50,000 people because a few looked into the Ark
*God repeatedly ordered killing
*God ordered killing of children
*God excused a murderer and promised him protection
*God repeatedly made false and unfulfilled prophecies
*God is very unjust
*God orders or causes cannibalism
*God intentionally gave bad laws
*God loses his temper
*God is often jealous
*God ordered a man to marry a harlot
*God ordered a man to purchase his wife
*God caused adultery
*God broke up families
*God requires women to marry the man who raped them
*God requires unbetrothed virgins to marry the man who seduced them
*God punishes bastards for being illegitimate
*God killed a man for refusing to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law
*God punishes children for their father's sins
*God supports human sacrifice
*God punishes many for the acts of one person
*God mandated infinite punishment for finite sins
*God rewards both the fool and the transgressor
*God "mingled a perverse spirit"
*God delivered an innocent man into Satan's hands
*God ordered stealing
*God causes dumbness, deafness and blindness
*God demanded that 16,000 virgins be given to soldiers as spoils of war, and 32 virgins be set aside for himself
And on, and on, and on!
And you think this monster is worthy of praise and worship!? We're all extremely lucky such a thing doesn't exist!
Why don't you try actually reading the Bible instead of just thumping it?
You do know quite a lot about the Bible, though most of those facts are without clarifying context, some are true. The same judgments that befell some in the Bible days are still in effect today. Though we are living under grace, the same unbiased judgment that befell some of those you cited, will also be applied to every person eventually. We are all guilty of sin, but that’s why Jesus came, to forgive us of our trespasses, and to cleanse us from our sinful nature. The grave sin that will send men to hell is rejecting the Son of God, given to all who will accept him as Savior.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Would you stop preaching at us, it's really annoying. We come here so we don't have to put up with that shit!
I’m not trying to preach at you, just trying to have an honest conversation
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
Well , that’s a lot to respond to, but I am very comfortable in my beliefs. After all, religion is the opioid of the masses, right ;)
These days, it's the fentanyl of the masses.
You can't have an honest conversation, all you want to do is convert us to your stupid cult. Stop it.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 04:20:53 PM
Well , that’s a lot to respond to, but I am very comfortable in my beliefs. After all, religion is the opioid of the masses, right ;) As far as those other Gods, they all stem from Nimrod. As for Jehovah God, there is an astronomical amount of evidence that He exists. As far as objectively, the heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork. There is so much design in our world it is beyond the possibility that it is by chance. You have to have more faith to believe their is no God, than there is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sorry, but that statement is so silly, it is almost beyond comment. I don't have a single belief and I have faith in nothing. But I do have reasoning and a reliance on facts, not fancy such as you suggest. Can you produce for me one bit of 'evidence' that your "Jehovah God" (whatever that is) exists. And nature is not a proof for god of any kind--in fact, I see it as proof against god. Where you see design, I see chaos.
I'm sure you are comfortable with your belief. It takes no effort to just believe and put a stamp of approval of 'you just gotta have faith' on those beliefs. I call it willful ignorance. But as you are a theist, I'm sure you don't want to think about stuff like this. I'm not sure you are even capable. And it would be nice if you would give a brief into to yourself.
(http://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/feel-great2.png)
So, explain to me what truth is, and where it came from? Why is murder wrong, or is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As the Bible says, believing in G-d doesn't do you any good. The demons believe in G-d, and quake in fear. Humans are demons. To Hell with them. US since Jan 2016 ... hey we are already in Hell, yeah, go Demons! (HS mascot for my HS).
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 06:54:19 PM
So, explain to me what truth is, and where it came from? Why is murder wrong, or is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I hate to be blunt with a nice young person like yourself.
It is wrong to kill the wrong people. It is right to kill the right people. Read Exodus.
Capital punishment isn’t murder, do you think?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 06:58:37 PM
Capital punishment isn’t murder, do you think?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is only killing. There is no murder. Murder is a BS legal fiction. When you kill with permission (say of G-d) it isn't murder, it is justifiable homicide. When the government does the same thing (see secular government is a kind of pagan god), then the same rule applies. You as an individual are not authorized to kill (because if you do, the government will want to kill you too).
Capital punishment is killing. But it is authorized by the government (aka organized crime). Apostle Paul says, do what the government tells you to do, because G-d created the government to rule over you. Yes, that is true, because G-d is the ultimate "god father". Capische?
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 06:54:19 PM
So, explain to me what truth is, and where it came from? Why is murder wrong, or is it?
"And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." Jeremiah 25:33
Does that sound to you like a loving God?
It’s like this, if there were a gang of killers running loose and their known intent was to kill as many as possible, and then the good guys came in and wiped em out, that’s not murder. Same with the scripture you quoted, God is going to wipe out the bad guys.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Right, all the evils done by your fucked up excuse for a deity can be written off as the actions of a good cop, like Dirty Harry.
The evils are done by Satan, his fallen angels, and fallen man.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 04, 2019, 07:31:30 PM
Right, all the evils done by your fucked up excuse for a deity can be written off as the actions of a good cop, like Dirty Harry.
Dirty Harry will have to have a larger gun this time ;-)
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 07:34:47 PM
The evils are done by Satan, his fallen angels, and fallen man.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That isn't monotheism. People need to learn to count ...
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 04, 2019, 07:12:34 PM
"And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." Jeremiah 25:33
Does that sound to you like a loving God?
Yes. G-d loves to kill people. If you loved G-d, you would love to kill people too ;-)
What does monotheism have to do with that?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 07:19:57 PM
It’s like this, if there were a gang of killers running loose and their known intent was to kill as many as possible, and then the good guys came in and wiped em out, that’s not murder. Same with the scripture you quoted, God is going to wipe out the bad guys.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are all bad guys ;-( Oops!
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 08:01:56 PM
What does monotheism have to do with that?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If Christianity isn't monotheist, then it is polytheist, aka paganism aka Satan worship.
God is One composed of three- Father Son and Holy Ghost
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 07:19:57 PM
It’s like this, if there were a gang of killers running loose and their known intent was to kill as many as possible, and then the good guys came in and wiped em out, that’s not murder. Same with the scripture you quoted, God is going to wipe out the bad guys.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
According to your fictional book and god, he created those 'bad' guys. He then, ultimately, should be held accountable for the evil he has done.
So, if your son committed murder, you should be held accountable?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 07:34:47 PM
The evils are done by Satan, his fallen angels, and fallen man.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Once again, Satan and those fallen angels were crafted and created by your creator fictional god. He is responsible for the evil they do. And man isn't fallen; mankind is just a sloppy creation by your fictional creator god.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 08:04:00 PM
God is One composed of three- Father Son and Holy Ghost
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is an F in arithmetic for you ;-)
So, do you believe in evolution?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 07:34:47 PM
The evils are done by Satan, his fallen angels, and fallen man.
How many people does the Bible say were killed by Satan? Not very many, only Jobs family, because God gave him permission to kill them.
How many people does the Bible say were killed by God? Many millions of people were killed by God:
How many Has God Killed? (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html)
How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total) (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-many-has-god-killed-complete-list.html)
God's uncounted killings revisited (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2007/01/gods-uncounted-killings-revisited-with.html)
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 06:54:19 PM
So, explain to me what truth is, and where it came from? Why is murder wrong, or is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Truth is something that can be backed up with evidence and facts. And murder is determined by the society in which one lives; society dictates what that societies' moral code is and what it is not. Your fictional god has little to do with it.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 08:05:38 PM
So, if your son committed murder, you should be held accountable?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Since most humans flunk math, most aren't held a-ccountable.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 08:07:45 PM
So, do you believe in evolution?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Everyone here accepts the obvious about evolution. Please, don't say you are a Young Earth supporter!
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 08:04:00 PM
God is One composed of three- Father Son and Holy Ghost
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You do spout some weird shit, don't you?!
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 04, 2019, 08:12:43 PM
You do spout some weird shit, don't you?!
Tertullian was on dope.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 08:04:00 PM
God is One composed of three- Father Son and Holy Ghost
Yep, that's Christian mathematics - 1+1+1=1
;-D
I call them Big Daddy, Junior and the Spook. Where's my lightning bolt?
Many people believe that God is a single Deity, Jews, Apostolic, and maybe others, but when God spoke concerning the creation of man, He said â€" Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 04, 2019, 08:18:02 PM
Yep, that's Christian mathematics - 1+1+1=1
;-D
I call them Big Daddy, Junior and the Spook. Where's my lightning bolt?
The Trinity was defeated by those damn kids in their van and the stupid dog ;-)
Quote from: Jonathan on April 05, 2019, 01:19:04 AM
Many people believe that God is a single Deity, Jews, Apostolic, and maybe others, but when God spoke concerning the creation of man, He said â€" Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The royal "we". The Queen of England also speaks in plural. Actually real exegesis is fun and interesting, but don't take it too seriously. The Jews who wrote the Bible were drunk at the time.
Quote
×'Ö°Ö¼×¦Ö·×œÖ°×žÖµ× ×•Ö¼ aka In Our Image
Remembering to read right to left, Bet = preposition meaning "in" Tzade+Lamed+Mem = noun meaning "image" Nun+Waw = possessive pronoun meaning "our".
But in the very next verse ... "So God created man in his own image ..."
Quote from: Jonathan on April 05, 2019, 01:19:04 AM
Many people believe that God is a single Deity, Jews, Apostolic, and maybe others, but when God spoke concerning the creation of man, He said â€" Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Well, which is it?! Kinda important to nail that down before asking people to dedicate their lives to this guy(s), don'tcha think?
Quote from: Jonathan on April 05, 2019, 01:19:04 AM
Many people believe that God is a single Deity, Jews, Apostolic, and maybe others, but when God spoke concerning the creation of man, He said â€" Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Understand, Genesis is not something written by god. Your fictional god has not produced a single printed word. Genesis was written by at least one human--not god. Just as your god is fictional, the bible is a collection of fictions banded together and called 'the bible'--or the book. In your example, your fictional god said "Let us make man" Who is the 'us'? According to the first chapter of genesis, god created man and woman simultaneously and pronounced them good. Yet in the second chapter, god creates only adam (man) and when a flaw in adam makes itself apparent (your fictional god cannot create even one creature perfect) known--he is lonely--god then creates eve, from adam. What a fuckup your god is!!!!
This guy is a troll. No one could be that stupid.
Quote from: Minimalist on April 05, 2019, 11:27:07 AM
This guy is a troll. No one could be that stupid.
Never underestimate the stupidity of Christians. They like being stupid, because their book tells them that stupid is better.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 05, 2019, 01:15:10 PM
Never underestimate the stupidity of Christians. They like being stupid, because their book tells them that stupid is better.
The smart people in ancient times were purged by the periodic peasant uprisings. Kind of like Pol Pot and the Killing Fields.
It’s God the Father, Jesus Christ his only begotten Son, and the Holy Ghost. When God went down to talk with Abraham, it was three that visited. Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,â€. This was God the Father speaking to Jesus
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Jonathan on April 05, 2019, 08:59:38 PM
It’s God the Father, Jesus Christ his only begotten Son, and the Holy Ghost. When God went down to talk with Abraham, it was three that visited. Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,â€. This was God the Father speaking to Jesus
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, he is a troll.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 05, 2019, 08:59:38 PM
It’s God the Father, Jesus Christ his only begotten Son, and the Holy Ghost. When God went down to talk with Abraham, it was three that visited. Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,â€. This was God the Father speaking to Jesus
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That psalm has to do with a coronation of a Jewish king of Judea, not Jesus over the Earth, let alone the Universe.
That Psalm is prophetic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Baruch, who is God speaking of in this scripture; Isa. 53 ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The part you have wrong is, the sin will be forgiven, and forgotten.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Right...but someone like, say, the Dalai Lama will burn in hell for eternity because he didn't believe that Jesus is God?
True; Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So, Jonathan, you're a true believer?
Quote from: 17-18
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So, how many devils have you cast out? How many "new tongues" can you speak? How often do you play with deadly snakes? How many sick people have you cured just by putting your hands on them? How often do you drink poison?
Quote from: Jonathan on April 04, 2019, 07:19:57 PM
God is going to wipe out the bad guys.
right.....always take him 3 tries. Lets alot of his followers get killed and thinks that somehow strengthens his relationship. No wonder the Jews were so bad at being good.
Were the Jews bad at being good, or good at being bad?
Quote from: Jonathan on April 06, 2019, 10:34:17 AM
Baruch, who is God speaking of in this scripture; Isa. 53 ?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is a classic. Orthodox Jewish folks don't quote it? But they do ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_53
Quote from: Jonathan on April 06, 2019, 10:31:47 AM
That Psalm is prophetic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, a Jewish prophecy about a Jewish king ... not necessarily a messiah. The general view in Judaism, is that all messiahs are false. Because if there was one, history would end, and it hasn't.
Quote from: Jonathan on April 06, 2019, 04:05:47 PM
True; Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What does "name" mean? "Name" is a synonym for power, in this case of the Holy Spirit aka Ruach HaKodesh ... the breath of G-d (as in the apocryphal description of how the Virgin Mary got pregnant). In that apocrypha, the archangel Gabriel, blew the borrowed breath of G-d into Mary's ear. The apocrypha writers didn't want to get all icky about sex, like the pagans did with Zeus' escapades.
QuoteA group of Catholic priests in Poland have reportedly burned books they deem sacrilegious, including those from the popular Harry Potter series.
The BBC reports that an evangelical group called SMS from Heaven Foundation posted pictures on its Facebook page showing Harry Potter books atop a burning fire pit, along with an elephant figure and a tribal mask...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii9k_aROOA8
Harry Potter books burned by Polish priests alarmed by magic (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47771706)
"Our magic is the only magic you're allowed to think about!"
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 06, 2019, 08:07:20 PM
Harry Potter books burned by Polish priests alarmed by magic (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47771706)
"Our magic is the only magic you're allowed to think about!"
There are superstitious people everywhere. The good thought is that all superstitions slowly fade away (like flat-earthers). And yes, I know there are still some, but they USED to be a majority and they aren't now.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 03:56:11 AM
There are superstitious people everywhere. The good thought is that all superstitions slowly fade away (like flat-earthers). And yes, I know there are still some, but they USED to be a majority and they aren't now.
I am glad you aren't afraid of black cats ;-) My own black cat would be very non-plussed if you were ... or non-pussed specifically.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 04:22:28 AM
I am glad you aren't afraid of black cats ;-) My own black cat would be very non-plussed if you were ... or non-pussed specifically.
Ah cats... Since cats don't control the color of their fur, blaming them for it or assigning negative aspects to fur-color WOULD be pretty absurd. I, for one, do not assign any negative values to black cats or any other color. In fact, my cat Iza, a siamese-color Tonkinese has a boycatfriend whose fur is black. She loves him dearly...
But aside from that, I am no more concerned with a black cat crossing my path than I am about a white one or a calico one or an orange one. I happily walk under ladders (looking above of course), stepping on sidewalk cracks, or any other superstition.
Europe sort of deserved the Plague for killing cats "as servants of witches" which allowed flea-bearing rats to spread throughout Europe. The Law Of Unintended Consequences wrapped up in superstition, LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 04:34:23 AM
Ah cats... Since cats don't control the color of their fur, blaming them for it or assigning negative aspects to fur-color WOULD be pretty absurd. I, for one, do not assign any negative values to black cats or any other color. In fact, my cat Iza, a siamese-color Tonkinese has a boycatfriend whose fur is black. She loves him dearly...
But aside from that, I am no more concerned with a black cat crossing my path than I am about a white one or a calico one or an orange one. I happily walk under ladders (looking above of course), stepping on sidewalk cracks, or any other superstition.
Europe sort of deserved the Plague for killing cats "as servants of witches" which allowed flea-bearing rats to spread throughout Europe. The Law Of Unintended Consequences wrapped up in superstition, LOL!
There was a study on the Plague of Justinian ... that happened around 550 CE. This was crucial for the depopulation that assisted the later Muslim conquest. Basically Central Africa around the headwaters of the Nile, is a breading ground for plague mutations. The germ virility is sensitive to temperature, going out of control at somewhat colder temperatures than normally found at the Equator. There was a major pre-Krakatoa eruption around that time that dropped the temperature due to dust and sulphur dioxide in the stratosphere. Because there was all this elephant ivory trade going on from E Africa (the point of departure) up to Constantinople, that is how a new plague strain got out of Africa and up to the ME and SE Europe. Not unlike Aids using easy jet travel out of Africa to get to new victims.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 08:40:47 AM
There was a study on the Plague of Justinian ... that happened around 550 CE. This was crucial for the depopulation that assisted the later Muslim conquest. Basically Central Africa around the headwaters of the Nile, is a breading ground for plague mutations. The germ virility is sensitive to temperature, going out of control at somewhat colder temperatures than normally found at the Equator. There was a major pre-Krakatoa eruption around that time that dropped the temperature due to dust and sulphur dioxide in the stratosphere. Because there was all this elephant ivory trade going on from E Africa (the point of departure) up to Constantinople, that is how a new plague strain got out of Africa and up to the ME and SE Europe. Not unlike Aids using easy jet travel out of Africa to get to new victims.
I know about that idea and don't agree, but nice summary. And weather fluctuations do matter. But most evidence suggests The Plague arrived in Europe via fleas on rats on maritime vessels from the Silk Road to the north of the Mid East to Italy due to the temperatures the flea parasites could tolerate.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 03:43:43 PM
I know about that idea and don't agree, but nice summary. And weather fluctuations do matter. But most evidence suggests The Plague arrived in Europe via fleas on rats on maritime vessels from the Silk Road to the north of the Mid East to Italy due to the temperatures the flea parasites could tolerate.
Wrong plague. The plague arrived multiple times. You are thinking of the Black Death of 1326, and it started in China and moved West. This one was from E Africa and moved north. Again, both propagated long distance because of long distance land and sea trade.
Quote from: Baruch on April 07, 2019, 04:21:50 PM
Wrong plague. The plague arrived multiple times. You are thinking of the Black Death of 1326, and it started in China and moved West. This one was from E Africa and moved north. Again, both propagated long distance because of long distance land and sea trade.
OK, that was some fun research. So you are talking about the Justinian Plague of 541 which started in Central Africa and spread north. I had not realized that bacillus Yersinia pestis could survive there. Thank you for that, and I will try to remember about that in the future. My understanding of the bacillus Yersinia pestis was that it required temperate zones like the Asian steppes to survive.
Cool...
Well, if you don't learn something new every day, you're just not trying hard enough! :-D
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2019, 06:03:19 PM
OK, that was some fun research. So you are talking about the Justinian Plague of 541 which started in Central Africa and spread north. I had not realized that bacillus Yersinia pestis could survive there. Thank you for that, and I will try to remember about that in the future. My understanding of the bacillus Yersinia pestis was that it required temperate zones like the Asian steppes to survive.
Cool...
but was it the same organism? There are many varieties of germ.
Primary source ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxQGgEcAwDs
Modern theory ... in two parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUz5Vjq9-s
In short, without natural disasters, history wouldn't be what it is. That is something Marx can't account for, since his view is entirely humanistic and political/economic.
Yes, bacteria mutate. Something else the assholes who scribbled out that bible bullshit did not know.
I guess our troll left?
Quote from: Minimalist on April 20, 2019, 08:41:58 PM
Yes, bacteria mutate. Something else the assholes who scribbled out that bible bullshit did not know.
I guess our troll left?
Perhaps he/she left. But your irrational anger did not.
QuoteUnderneath the Vatican College, forensic experts say thousands of bones are found from dozens of humans, and could hold answers to the 3-decade-old disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IozAW8en4fE
I've always suspected the Vatican of having skeletons in its closet, but this is ridiculous.
Inquisition ... serial killers?
Quote from: Baruch on July 26, 2019, 02:40:47 PM
Inquisition ... serial killers?
Indeed. Also rapists priests for over 1000 years.
Quote from: Draconic Aiur on July 26, 2019, 05:06:19 PM
Indeed. Also rapists priests for over 1000 years.
Humans, animals for 500,000 years. Rape is normal animal behavior.
I thought we pretended to be superior to that?
Is
Quote from: Minimalist on July 27, 2019, 11:18:13 AM
I thought we pretended to be superior to that?
Yeah, isn't that the whole point of "civilization"? We aren't chained to our animal past as much as most people think we are. We can overcome our natural inclination toward ego-gratification and treat each other as moral agents. But we're still in the early stages of our civilizing, so we've got the transition to get through to a more humane and virtuous society. We may not get there, but who knows? Maybe we can come through then next several decades and make a better world.
Quote from: Minimalist on July 27, 2019, 11:18:13 AM
I thought we pretended to be superior to that?
No donkey ever voted Dem, no elephant ever voted Rep ... so clearly the animals are superior to humans. All animals would have voted for Gary Johnson in 2016, if only they could get to the polling stations, if only they had opposable thumbs ...
Quote from: Unbeliever on July 27, 2019, 01:50:01 PM
IsYeah, isn't that the whole point of "civilization"? We aren't chained to our animal past as much as most people think we are. We can overcome our natural inclination toward ego-gratification and treat each other as moral agents. But we're still in the early stages of our civilizing, so we've got the transition to get through to a more humane and virtuous society. We may not get there, but who knows? Maybe we can come through then next several decades and make a better world.
Civilization = urban shits parasitizing the rural majority (before 1900). Apocalypse = urban shits are the majority, so parasitizing is collapsing.
Quote from: Baruch on July 27, 2019, 04:42:04 PM
Civilization = urban shits parasitizing the rural majority (before 1900). Apocalypse = urban shits are the majority, so parasitizing is collapsing.
Interesting thought. And I admire farmers, coming from a long line of them. How exactly are the "urban shits" parasites on the rural majority? Haven't most advancements in technology come from cities? Haven't those advancements aided farmers in producing more food? When epidemics cross territories, did farmers develop the vaccines that living among animals caused?
As I said, I admire farmers. My paternal grampa was one and I loved it when we visited him. I helped in his fields. He said I was a natural farmer. And I would have been. Everything I did there just made good sense.
But there is value in city-folk as well. If left to my farmer ancestors back as far as you want to consider, we would still be worn out and broken by age 50. We would be dead from animal-transmitted diseases routinely. The myth of "the healthy farmer" is exactly that - a myth. We city-folk developed vaccines, more efficient and less human labor-intensive devices.
My great-great-great-great grandfather started at the back end of an ass plowing fields that produced "X" tons of crops all his life. Us city-folk invented machines (because HE sure didn't) that allowed his descendants to sit in an air-conditioned multi-purpose machine that literally plants crops on its own.
Am I missing something here? Do I need to go on?
You already dissed the "Cross of Gold" speech. You probably think that meat comes naturally wrapped in cellophane. We will reach peak human, can't be avoided.
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 07:07:48 AM
You already dissed the "Cross of Gold" speech. You probably think that meat comes naturally wrapped in cellophane. We will reach peak human, can't be avoided.
You are talking to someone who has killed animals for food with gun and bow. And butchered them. And ate them. I turned a dead deer in the garage into a year's worth of venison stew one year. I wasn't very fond of the groundhog stew, though.
Dad once brought me at 13/14 to a field where he hunted as a youth. We saw nothing the whole afternoon. Just before dusk, he whistled really loud and a groundhog popped up out of a burrow. I aimed and shot my little .22. Dad said I missed but I insisted we check.
Sure enough, I nailed the little sucker (I HATE groundhogs) right between the eyes. I wish I hadn't. Dad's rule was "you kill it, you eat it". Groundhog is not "Good Eats".
Yes, and if everyone followed the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, we can sustain a world population of 20 million people, with a pristine environment. Much less since the environment is far from pristine. As a hunter/gatherer I don't see you having particular expertise in farming/animal husbandry.
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 11:31:33 AM
Yes, and if everyone followed the hunter/gatherer lifestyle, we can sustain a world population of 20 million people, with a pristine environment. Much less since the environment is far from pristine. As a hunter/gatherer I don't see you having particular expertise in farming/animal husbandry.
Wikipedia reports a "consensus" estimate of about 54 million pre-columbian native americans, so the world count by land mass would be about 5x that.
If civilization ended, the Earth would heal rapidly (fish in seas, mammals on land, flora everywhere). Just during WWII, sealife rebounded quickly from cessation of commercial hunting.
Keep in mind that I never said I would be a hunter/gatherer. At first, yes in a survivalist mode, but there are concepts that would remain. Seeds, settlements, organization. I would be a farmer in no time at all.
Hunter/gatherers do not unsettle prey populations. After Columbus with indigenous peoples in North America for 14KY, Europeans reported populations of fish in the rivers so thick you could walk on them (a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea of the abundance).
Go tell that to the wooly mammoths!
Quote from: Baruch on August 01, 2019, 12:08:43 PM
Go tell that to the wooly mammoths!
Hot Summers?
Seriously, yeah I meant not large prey. Blew it. I was reading a book on ice age europe waiting for posts. Messed my mind...
Scandals like the ones mentioned earlier in this thread were part of the reason I started questioning my Catholic faith.
From my perspective, the Catholic Church would basically tell me I was a horrible, evil person who couldn’t be forgiven for having a consensual, intimate relationship with a man (We both divorced and neither of us wants to marry again). All the while, this same Church that’s damning me for doing something that harms no one has institutionalized abuse of children though cover ups and excuses. I asked myself, how can they claim moral authority? How can they judge me when they can't even figure out what they are doing is wrong by all human standards.
Quote from: SeaLioness on September 04, 2019, 09:20:21 AM
Scandals like the ones mentioned earlier in this thread were part of the reason I started questioning my Catholic faith.
From my perspective, the Catholic Church would basically tell me I was a horrible, evil person who couldn’t be forgiven for having a consensual, intimate relationship with a man (We both divorced and neither of us wants to marry again). All the while, this same Church that’s damning me for doing something that harms no one has institutionalized abuse of children though cover ups and excuses. I asked myself, how can they claim moral authority? How can they judge me when they can't even figure out what they are doing is wrong by all human standards.
I am married to a recovering catholic. She asked that very question. Now, tho, she is in recovery and is an atheist.
I should say I am a recovering Catholic too. :)
And I should have written "we are both divorced" in my post. Maybe instead of SeaLioness I should have picked the user name QueenOfTypos because that's really what I am.
But yeah, I am damned in the Catholic Church for a lot of things. And being in an unapologetic, loving, consensual relationship with a fellow divorced adult seems to be one of them. It's even worse because the church considers him to be still married (even though he's divorced and he is not a Catholic and never was). Their rules of morality seem to apply to non-Catholics as well.
Quote from: SeaLioness on September 04, 2019, 10:07:44 AM
I should say I am a recovering Catholic too. :)
And I should have written "we are both divorced" in my post. Maybe instead of SeaLioness I should have picked the user name QueenOfTypos because that's really what I am.
But yeah, I am damned in the Catholic Church for a lot of things. And being in an unapologetic, loving, consensual relationship with a fellow divorced adult seems to be one of them. It's even worse because the church considers him to be still married (even though he's divorced and he is not a Catholic and never was). Their rules of morality seem to apply to non-Catholics as well.
You say--Their rules of morality--Don't buy into that word. The catholic church is not 'moral' in my eyes. Actually, I don't particularly like to use that word. All religions suggest they now what 'morality' is since it is dictated by god. But god is a fiction and it is clear that all facets of the catholic church is man made--including what is labeled as moral. The 10 Commandments is often displayed and refereed to as a moral foundation for mankind. The fact is that there is not just one place where the OT tells us of the commandments, but three. And only one of the three labels the 10 (and they all differ); for there is actually over 600 commandments sprinkled throughout the OT. The catholic church was created by men to use as propaganda and control of a large group of people; and to be used for the gathering of power and wealth. It has succeeded beyond all they had hoped for!
Yeah, Mike, as Pope Leo X said, "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." It's been all about power in the hands of an elite few ever since Constantine took the religion for his own purposes and made it into a weapon of mass control.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 04, 2019, 01:45:03 PM
Yeah, Mike, as Pope Leo X said, "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." It's been all about power in the hands of an elite few ever since Constantine took the religion for his own purposes and made it into a weapon of mass control.
But if anti-Roman, then are you pro-Barbarian? Which tribe? ;-)
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 04, 2019, 01:45:03 PM
Yeah, Mike, as Pope Leo X said, "It has served us well, this myth of Christ." It's been all about power in the hands of an elite few ever since Constantine took the religion for his own purposes and made it into a weapon of mass control.
I no more believe that the average Pope truly believes in the Jesus Myth anymore than I believe that Trump believes in democracy or Putin believes in communism
Quote from: Cavebear on September 06, 2019, 11:16:00 PM
I no more believe that the average Pope truly believes in the Jesus Myth anymore than I believe that Trump believes in democracy or Putin believes in communism
See where agnosticism leads you!! Total confusion. I don't think you believe in Cavebear ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on September 06, 2019, 11:20:07 PM
See where agnosticism leads you!! Total confusion. I don't think you believe in Cavebear ;-))
I think Cavebear exists. The question is whether I should say Cogito Ergo Sum or Cher's "I Believe"...
Quote from: SeaLioness on September 04, 2019, 10:07:44 AM
I should say I am a recovering Catholic too. :)
And I should have written "we are both divorced" in my post. Maybe instead of SeaLioness I should have picked the user name QueenOfTypos because that's really what I am.
But yeah, I am damned in the Catholic Church for a lot of things. And being in an unapologetic, loving, consensual relationship with a fellow divorced adult seems to be one of them. It's even worse because the church considers him to be still married (even though he's divorced and he is not a Catholic and never was). Their rules of morality seem to apply to non-Catholics as well.
For what it is worth, my Dad was vaguely Protestant and Mom was vaguely Ctaholic. Her parents liked him a lot, but when they chose to marry, Mom was discommunicated and offed from their Will. Religious people can be both inconsistent and weird. They lived happily ever after.
Mom used to say she was taught that "If you were bad, you went to Hell, but if you were REALLY bad you were a Protestant".
As far as we can tell, that never matterred much.
When my grandfather had brought my father home from the hospital (my grandmother had just died from an infected caesarean) .. there was some dispute with a Catholic priest. Grandpa thru the priest out of his house.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 12:56:15 AM
When my grandfather had brought my father home from the hospital (my grandmother had just died from an infected caesarean) .. there was some dispute with a Catholic priest. Grandpa thru the priest out of his house.
And down the stairs among hungry dogs, I hope! At least tell me it was into the muck in the streets.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 12:59:00 AM
And down the stairs among hungry dogs, I hope! At least tell me it was into the muck in the streets.
Grandpa refused to baptize my dad, into the Catholic Church. I think Grandma was Catholic, but would have been "fallen" given Grandpa.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 01:01:03 AM
Grandpa refused to baptize my dad, into the Catholic Church. I think Grandma was Catholic, but would have been "fallen" given Grandpa.
Reverse here, I suppose. Was sprinkled with water myself. Wasn't quite able to object at the time. But I don't think silly religious rituals matter to babies.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 01:19:40 AM
Reverse here, I suppose. Was sprinkled with water myself. Wasn't quite able to object at the time. But I don't think silly religious rituals matter to babies.
Correct, infant baptism was for worry wart parents, because of high infant mortality, in the 300s in the new Christian Roman Empire. Tradition!!
Protestants are correct about age 13+ (adult) baptism. Same as Bar Mitzvah.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 02:32:03 AM
Correct, infant baptism was for worry wart parents, because of high infant mortality, in the 300s in the new Christian Roman Empire. Tradition!!
Protestants are correct about age 13+ (adult) baptism. Same as Bar Mitzvah.
Well, at least I wasn't sprinkled twice. By 13 I was already a definite atheist.
It isn't magic.
We are friends in a boxing ring? Don't cry too much if my glove connects. Fight club is right here.
Quote from: Cavebear on September 07, 2019, 01:19:40 AM
Reverse here, I suppose. Was sprinkled with water myself. Wasn't quite able to object at the time. But I don't think silly religious rituals matter to babies.
Well, having your foreskin chopped off without your consent can't be much fun.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 07, 2019, 02:04:21 PM
Well, having your foreskin chopped off without your consent can't be much fun.
I prefer the Muslim version. Cutting head off without consent.
Quote from: Baruch on September 07, 2019, 09:19:28 AM
It isn't magic.
We are friends in a boxing ring? Don't cry too much if my glove connects. Fight club is right here.
Probably, but I don't mention it outside the fight club.
The first pope, Peter, denied 3 times that he even knew Jesus, but many of the rest of them haven't been very nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTy8l26PJG8
Only two Popes called "Great" ... Leon and Gregory, both over 1400 years ago. In legend, in 855 CE, there was even a woman pope, Pope Joan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan
Faith is Doublethink,
Hypocrisy is Doublespeak.
Quote from: Gregory on March 05, 2020, 09:36:15 PM
Faith is Doublethink,
Hypocrisy is Doublespeak.
Which is why they are used so often in politics.
"DC Priest Who Shook 500 Hands At Communion Has Coronavirus" ... sad but apparently true. Distancing is required, add it to your vocabulary!
At our own UU assembly on Sunday, we had an official door handle cleaner, who cleaned the door handle ever time it was used, and we didn't have what Christians call "pass the peace".
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 07, 2019, 02:04:21 PM
Well, having your foreskin chopped off without your consent can't be much fun.
Don’t remember mine. I heard they made a suitcase out of it......ðŸ˜
Maybe a steamer trunk?
I can't even remember the last time I shook anyone's hand. We usually just bump fists. It's more hygienic, even without this covid-19 going around.
The Catholic Church is a criminal organisation.
Quote from: Gregory on March 18, 2020, 12:31:55 AM
The Catholic Church is a criminal organisation.
Capiche!