https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=JDFrNQAjDYA&app=desktop
Excellent post! I have seen this already, glad I live in the United States, and why any religion should stay out of government and it's laws.
I don't know much about Bill Maher, being british, other then the drunken peasents keep using a sound file saying "Fuck you Bill Maher, Fuck you"
I think I read somewhere he claims to be an atheist, but is only doing so to be controversial?
Quote from: Munch on September 29, 2014, 06:14:11 AM
I don't know much about Bill Maher, being british, other then the drunken peasents keep using a sound file saying "Fuck you Bill Maher, Fuck you"
I think I read somewhere he claims to be an atheist, but is only doing so to be controversial?
Well, you never know with a guy who needs to pitch himself with a controversial image to further a career. But I think he is genuinely an atheist. Although, I don't think he's the best representative of atheism we've got. He's highly popular, so I appreciate him being out in the open about his lack of belief. At one time he was asked by Larry King if he believed in God, and he said no, he thought that was a bunch of malarkey. So then Larry said, "So you are an atheist," and Maher replied, "Heavens no, I'm not one of those angry people. I just don't believe there is a god." Today, he seems to understand what atheism actually is. Someone must have gotten to him.
My impression of him is he's edgy, but not all that well informed. He probably reads the papers, but he strikes me as not really having a full grasp of issues. He's just full of commentary, which he delivers with an air of confidence. Don't get me wrong, I like watching him, but sometimes I wonder how smart he is. Contrast him with George Carlin, who is edgy and wacky, almost to a point of slapstick, but behind it all, I get this suspicion that Carlin is actually a genius. I don't get that feeling from Maher.
I'm a PC atheist. I don't believe in Macs.
Just remember that Maher is a comedian first and a pundit distant second.
Yeah, that's a good way to describe him. I didn't want to sound like I was trashing the guy. He does make me laugh.
Quote from: Atheon on September 29, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
I'm a PC atheist. I don't believe in Macs.
Same. It's just not worth the money
Sent from your mom
Quote from: SGOS on September 29, 2014, 07:02:27 AM
Well, you never know with a guy who needs to pitch himself with a controversial image to further a career. But I think he is genuinely an atheist. Although, I don't think he's the best representative of atheism we've got. He's highly popular, so I appreciate him being out in the open about his lack of belief. At one time he was asked by Larry King if he believed in God, and he said no, he thought that was a bunch of malarkey. So then Larry said, "So you are an atheist," and Maher replied, "Heavens no, I'm not one of those angry people. I just don't believe there is a god." Today, he seems to understand what atheism actually is. Someone must have gotten to him.
My impression of him is he's edgy, but not all that well informed. He probably reads the papers, but he strikes me as not really having a full grasp of issues. He's just full of commentary, which he delivers with an air of confidence. Don't get me wrong, I like watching him, but sometimes I wonder how smart he is. Contrast him with George Carlin, who is edgy and wacky, almost to a point of slapstick, but behind it all, I get this suspicion that Carlin is actually a genius. I don't get that feeling from Maher.
He may not be as knowledgeable Stewart or Colbert, but he no slouch. And light years ahead of Oh'Really, Hanity, Limbuger, and what's that female skeletor's name--oh, yeah, Colter. What is a real shame is that we have to listen to comedy shows to get the real news.
I must say, it takes balls for a conservative to go on his show.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 29, 2014, 11:29:30 AM
He may not be as knowledgeable Stewart or Colbert, but he no slouch. And light years ahead of Oh'Really, Hanity, Limbuger, and what's that female skeletor's name--oh, yeah, Colter. What is a real shame is that we have to listen to comedy shows to get the real news.
That's Coulter, with a "u". Not to be considered a relative of John Colter, a heroic mountain man/scout of yesteryear.
Quote from: stromboli on September 30, 2014, 10:34:50 PM
That's Coulter, with a "u". Not to be considered a relative of John Colter, a heroic mountain man/scout of yesteryear.
Sorry, didn't mean to insult John Colter.
Quote from: stromboli on September 30, 2014, 10:34:50 PM
That's Coulter, with a "u". Not to be considered a relative of John Colter, a heroic mountain man/scout of yesteryear.
John Colter of Mars?
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/30/reza_aslan_takes_down_bill_mahers_facile_arguments_on_islam_in_just_5_minutes/
Quote from: Jmpty on October 01, 2014, 12:06:35 PM
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/30/reza_aslan_takes_down_bill_mahers_facile_arguments_on_islam_in_just_5_minutes/
He's technically correct about some stuff, mistaken about others, and definitely spin-doctoring.
FGM is almost entirely an African thing, though it does have a slight presence in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. He's factually wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country#Middle_East) about it being not being a problem in any non-African Muslim-majority state.
While it is true that some majority-Muslim states have had female heads of state, comparing dozens of muslim states to a single country is an unfair comparison. If you compared muslim-majority states to Western states, you'll find quite a few female heads of state there as well.
He acknowledges but kinda glosses over just how bad women have it in the muslim world. While Saudi Arabia and Iran are definitely among the worst offenders, this problem exists throughout the Middle East and Africa. This is not a localized problem. And while the West has its share of gender inequality, it has a vastly better track record.
I'd also really question his assertion that it's a free and open society for women (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-24650912) in Bangladesh, Turkey, Malaysia, and Indonesia.
The anchor made an excellent point that these denials of otherwise basic liberties in many muslim states is considered to be normal rather than extreme and he begrudgingly agreed with that, even going so far to say that we should be outraged by beheadings in Saudi Arabia as well. But that's precisely Bill Maher's point. For someone calling this stuff facile and unsophisticated, it's amusing to see him agree with it.
And yeah, using 2 or 3 examples to justify a generalization is bad form, but it's not like Bill Maher couldn't have come up with a laundry list (and quickly exhaust his air time in the process)
I do sort of agree that Islam neither promotes violence or peace, that's it's ultimately the people who carry out violence who are to blame. Though obviously, there's plenty of verses in the quran to justify violence, same as the Bible.
Then he goes a little bit into hysterics getting inexplicably offended over the anchor using the term "muslim countries" even though he used the term himself earlier. Yes, we know that Malaysia =/= Iraq =/= Jordan =/= Afghanistan. Duh. But the anchor is right that Islam is the common thread between these countries - hence the term muslim countries. And yes, one shouldn't take the most extreme cases as representative of the whole, but the point is that these countries have these sorts of problems, to one degree or another, that are practically unheard of in the West.
I'm not a fan of Bill Maher. His anti-vaxxer statements really ticked me off precisely because these are exactly the sort of muddleheaded and ignorant remarks that he loves to lampoon. But in this case at least, he does make a cogent point that all the spin-doctoring in the world doesn't refute.
Quote from: Jmpty on October 01, 2014, 12:06:35 PM
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/30/reza_aslan_takes_down_bill_mahers_facile_arguments_on_islam_in_just_5_minutes/
Aslan confirmed a point that Maher often makes: Moderate Muslims (which I assume Aslan describes himself) will defend their faith with more ferocity than they will condemn the extremists.
Here is a follow up video with Maher, Sam Harris and Ben Affleck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMMteTEbc#t=366
Sam Harris ftw. Ben Affleck probably meant well, but he definitely had a knee jerk reaction when the term islamophobia was brought out which is unfortunate. As we're all well aware, it is a horrible mistake to conflate criticism of islam with bigotry towards msulims.
And he is factually wrong about it being just a few bad apples. Sure, the majority of muslims aren't doing anything particularly bad. But there is a spectrum of bad beliefs ranging from jihadism to islamism to conservative islam that is responsible for a lot of bad stuff and is supported by a lot of muslims. The other guests did have an excellent point that of course, there are muslims who oppose jihadism and try to do good. We would be wise to remember that and to enlist their help whenever possible. All in all, I suppose both sides had some valid points.
I only watched 7 minutes, and was left mostly with the feeling that Ben was too emotional to present his idea clearly. Maybe he got it together later, but after 4 minutes he spent the rest of the time looking like he was in a sulk. He's probably a very heartfelt type, but not impressive, at least as far as I watched.
I’ve watched Maher for a couple of years and the more I watch him the more he seems like a condescending prick. I never really liked him back when his schtick was standup and now he has HBO to get up and proclaim his own brand of holier than thou atheism..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on October 05, 2014, 05:57:58 AM
I’ve watched Maher for a couple of years and the more I watch him the more he seems like a condescending prick. I never really liked him back when his schtick was standup and now he has HBO to get up and proclaim his own brand of holier than thou atheism..
He does have a condescending air, which would be unnecessary, even if he were actually highly knowledgeable. What he does is express opinions, and there is really no reason to be condescending over your own opinions. They're just opinions. I don't want to be unkind to him, but his attitude is too typical of the demigods like Limbaugh and O'Reilly. Such a know-it-all "my opinion is a superior opinion" attitude plays better to the lower class conservatives, maybe conservatives in general.
Years ago, I longed for a liberal counterpoint to the conservative masters of bitch and bash, and while a few attempts were launched, they mostly failed to gain traction and have wide appeal with liberals (remember that underground radio program that Al Franken and others started up). Maher and Olberman come the closest, but they are too easy to spot as editorialists. Stewart and Colbert are helpful, but the decay of American journalism isn't something that is really funny. Those two make it seem funny, but it's too much of a serious matter to turn into a joke, IMO.
The liberal counterpoint to conservative demigods has actually been there all along. I think it's NPR. Just a straight reporting of open ended facts, which you have to weigh and wonder on your own. It doesn't necessarily get your hormones in a frenzy, because it lacks the emotional punch of a commentator with his nose continually out of joint.
NPR, thinking of being beholden to corporate masters.. Republicans defunded PBS and NPR to a point they're now pawns in the dash for corporate cash. Yes, they try and are a bit more open and honest, but compared to just ten years ago PBS and NPR are mere shells of themselves..
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on October 05, 2014, 06:49:05 AM
NPR, thinking of being beholden to corporate masters.. Republicans defunded PBS and NPR to a point they're now pawns in the dash for corporate cash. Yes, they try and are a bit more open and honest, but compared to just ten years ago PBS and NPR are mere shells of themselves..
Yes, that's very right. I've watched as some of their better programs bit the dust. There is something about truth that downright offends people. But they still try.
Doncha just love watching John McCanIbombacountry and Lindsey I'm John's little whore Graham being touted out on the News Hour every few weeks?
I watched that show with my wife, and told her I agree with both Ben Afflect and Sam Harris, which left me confused. :eek: :doh: :biggrin2:
Once upon a time American TV could be trusted to give us the news. The networks seemed to take that seriously. But not any more. MSNBC is the best of the bunch, with Faux News coming in below last. I used to also like PBS news. But that has been weakened lately, as well. So, I turn to channels like FSTV, Russia Today, BBC, and Al Jazerra (was I shocked and amazed as I watched it for the first few times--almost like they want to get the news right). Al Jazerra as a channel is becoming better and better. And I still like Democracy Now.
I'm a PC atheist too. Fuck you apple you and your unuser friendly buggy pieces of shit! Every problem I've had with an apple product I was not able to fix myself I had to depend on the "geniuses" Fuck you apple!
I don't think Afleck ever understood the argument. He may not have wanted to undrstand, because he kept interrupting and talking over Sam.