Impeach Trump????

[Baruch]

Tsk, Americans are such prudes. What's wrong with sleeping with people who aren't your spouse?

If you are sleeping with more than one (however you define marriage) then you are part of the STD problem.  So ... what is wrong with marriage?  It is a feminist institution.  Women choose who to mate with, the "rape culture" is overstated.  Not prudish, just civilized.  But if you want to be the bottom of the pile at a Roman orgy, feel free, until the Germans/Huns arrive.

But that quote was from a political context ... lots of sexual peccadilloes are ... fatal.  Politically fatal to Bill Clinton and probably actually fatal to JFK.  Male nymphomania?  Just say no.

[Halkenburg]

I'm a bit unclear on the meaning of "Judeo-Christian values." Just what are those?

Oh, I meant things like valuing honesty (9th commandment), respecting your parents (4th commandment), condemning crime (6th and 8th commandment) and envy (10th commandment) and valuing faithfulness (7th commandment). Christianity and Judaism have a lot more texts that relate to morality, of course, but the 10 commandmens are an easy-to-understand example that everyone already knows about.

[Halkenburg]

That is more traditional than conservative.  Conservative means someone who may want to retrain the cringeworthy innovations fo the 60s, because that was 50 years ago.  For anglophones, non-anglophone cultures are misunderstood, we are that parochial.  There is a lot of things about Germany that are positive.  Same with any other culture.  Albrecht Durer, he's our man, if he can't etch it, nobody can ;-)

I'm not sure what label fits me best, I just know that I don't fit on either side of the extreme.

[Baruch]

Oh, I meant things like valuing honesty (9th commandment), respecting your parents (4th commandment), condemning crime (6th and 8th commandment) and envy (10th commandment) and valuing faithfulness (7th commandment). Christianity and Judaism have a lot more texts that relate to morality, of course, but the 10 commandmens are an easy-to-understand example that everyone already knows about.

So, strongly post-Christian.  There are a lot of Americans who are mildly post-Christian, who are in denial ;-)  Only the 1st commandment is religious.  And lots of disagreement on the meaning of all of them.  Summarized by the positive and negative golden rule.  Hillel and Kung Fu Tzu stating the negative one (don't do unto others ...) and Jesus stating the positive one (do unto others ...).  Both exist as far back as ancient Egypt though.  These are also often confused with "natural law".  The positive rule is the origin of liberalism (who wouldn't like a free lunch) and the negative rule is the origin of conservativism (Don't touch my stuff).  So the two are not only different, they are incompatible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

The actual empirical behavior, belies both.  If you are an alpha male/female you do as you will, giving or taking according to your own authority.  Needless to say, the beta majority, bitch about this, it is all they can do since they can't get it up.  I was benefited by the generosity of others twice this past week alone.  I try not to feel victimized ;-)  Perhaps if I didn't appear to be a homeless old man?  Thanks, I can pick my own lice.  Apes.

[Halkenburg]

So, strongly post-Christian.  There are a lot of Americans who are mildly post-Christian, who are in denial ;-)  Only the 1st commandment is religious.  And lots of disagreement on the meaning of all of them.  Summarized by the positive and negative golden rule.  Hillel and Kung Fu Tzu stating the negative one (don't do unto others ...) and Jesus stating the positive one (do unto others ...).  Both exist as far back as ancient Egypt though.  These are also often confused with "natural law".  The positive rule is the origin of liberalism (who wouldn't like a free lunch) and the negative rule is the origin of conservativism (Don't touch my stuff).  So the two are not only different, they are incompatible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

The actual empirical behavior, belies both.  If you are an alpha male/female you do as you will, giving or taking according to your own authority.  Needless to say, the beta majority, bitch about this, it is all they can do since they can't get it up.  I was benefited by the generosity of others twice this past week alone.  I try not to feel victimized ;-)  Perhaps if I didn't appear to be a homeless old man?  Thanks, I can pick my own lice.  Apes.

No doubt, the roots of these values are more ancient than any written texts we have. I suppose the Christian texts are just the latest incarnation of those thoughts, which European societies have based their culture on. I don't think we'd be running around as savage beasts if Christianity had never come about, but even as an atheist, I can't deny the tremendous influence that Christianity has had on European societies.

[Baruch]

No doubt, the roots of these values are more ancient than any written texts we have. I suppose the Christian texts are just the latest incarnation of those thoughts, which European societies have based their culture on. I don't think we'd be running around as savage beasts if Christianity had never come about, but even as an atheist, I can't deny the tremendous influence that Christianity has had on European societies.

It is a branding/flavor.  People are people, everywhere.  The particular flavor in Europe is Christian, just as in the ME it is Islamic.  Jewish people contribute indirectly wherever we have gone.  Think ... gypsies with brains?  But of course Asia has its own systems, Hinduism and Buddhism being the most prominent.  And micro-societies.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/proof/2017/08/portraits-of-chinese-Mosuo-matriarchs/

Shangri-La is real.  But like the decline of the last hunter-gatherer people (San people) it is dying, in favor of urban homogenization.

[Plu]

If you are sleeping with more than one (however you define marriage) then you are part of the STD problem. 

No, if you're sleeping with people without using proper protection, you are part of the STD problem. There are plenty of porn-stars who sleep with lots of people in a professional setting, who are still clean because they understand how to not get an STD. Failing to explain safe sex to people, or failing to practice it, is the problem here.

But that quote was from a political context ... lots of sexual peccadilloes are ... fatal.  Politically fatal to Bill Clinton and probably actually fatal to JFK.  Male nymphomania?  Just say no.

Well yeah... hence my saying "Americans are prudes". There's no reason for the simply act of "having sex with someone other than a spouse" to be politically problematic unless you are dealing with prudes.

(Of course, when it comes to having sex without being honest about it, you're getting into a different situation. But then, the main reason for lack of honesty is, again, being a bunch of prudes.)

[Baruch]

Well, at least in the US (and maybe GB (Profumo affair), we are prudes.  We don't generally approve of libertinism.  Other cultures are different.

Yes, one can use protection, but people don't, you know that and I know that.  People are rutting animals.  Actual prostitutes would get a VD check once a week, where it is legalized.  If we are all prostitutes, are you willing to go for your weekly checkup, your clean/dirty status reported to the police?  Some people fantasize about being tarts or gigolos.

I myself am not a prude, but see libertinism as a sign of mental illness (which is not good for a political figure to be).  Except for the more extreme parts of "Sulo", I am pretty open "for others, not necessarily for myself" ... consenting adults and all that.  But given the new "look at me and it is rape" I can see that dying quickly.  Maybe all un-married women should be kept in convents, after all?

[Plu]

Yes, one can use protection, but people don't, you know that and I know that.

The great thing about protection is that it doesn't matter if other people do it, as long as you do it, you'll be okay.

[Halkenburg]

I definitely am conservative about sex, I think most of you would consider me a prude. I don't like one-night stands or hook-ups or sex outside of a trusting, committed relationship. I'm old-fashioned that way.

[Baruch]

The great thing about protection is that it doesn't matter if other people do it, as long as you do it, you'll be okay.

If effective.  But there are lots of ways to exchange bodily fluids.  Not fellatio, but do you kiss the mouth?  Then welcome to herpes and hepatitis.

For these "new" folks.  I work in military medicine.  We get lectures on all this stuff annually.  As well as human trafficking, assisting rape victims etc.  And I am an expert at stupid rationalization of corruption.

[Baruch]

I definitely am conservative about sex, I think most of you would consider me a prude. I don't like one-night stands or hook-ups or sex outside of a trusting, committed relationship. I'm old-fashioned that way.

You are not a hippie.  Neither am I.  I grew up in the 60s, and never thought what the older kids were doing, showed any intelligent life.  But then I was a young Vulcan ;-)  BTW - I was very scientific the first half of my life, but then I have switched to the humanities.  I don't have the job motivation at my age, heading for the bone yard soon enough.

[Plu]

I definitely am conservative about sex, I think most of you would consider me a prude. I don't like one-night stands or hook-ups or sex outside of a trusting, committed relationship. I'm old-fashioned that way.

I don't really enjoy one-night stands or hook-ups or sex outside of a trusting, committed relationship either. Nothing about that prevents you from having sex with others than your spouse, though 

[Halkenburg]

You are not a hippie.  Neither am I.  I grew up in the 60s, and never thought what the older kids were doing, showed any intelligent life.  But then I was a young Vulcan ;-)  BTW - I was very scientific the first half of my life, but then I have switched to the humanities.  I don't have the job motivation at my age, heading for the bone yard soon enough.

I am in my early 20s, but I feel much older than my peers. Always have. Adults have been telling me that I'm "mature" and "grown up" for my age my whole life. Make of that what you will.

[Baruch]

I don't really enjoy one-night stands or hook-ups or sex outside of a trusting, committed relationship either. Nothing about that prevents you from having sex with others than your spouse, though 

If she allows you, then you are her bitch.  Nothing wrong with that either.  Particularly if she is a German dominatrix.  As Freud said, if it doesn't involve sex, then it didn't happen.