http://news.yahoo.com/most-americans-side-gays-religious-freedom-disputes-reuters-050235522.html
The poll shows a rather unusually large difference between opponents.
QuoteFifty-four percent said it was wrong for businesses to refuse services, while 28 percent said they should have that right.
Polls aside, there are probably more important constitutional issues than public opinion. My cynical nature tells me that a poll of the Supreme Court would be more revealing about the future. Still 54-28 seems like a pretty wide spread. There is also a mysterious 18% unaccounted for, which seems unusually large for such a prominent issue.
Also:
Quote52 percent of Americans support allowing same-sex couples to marry, far more than the 32 percent who oppose it.
The largest grouping, 34 percent, believes same-sex marriage laws should be made by the U.S. Supreme Court declaring a nationwide constitutional right. Another 22 percent said same-sex marriage laws should be made at the state level by voter referendum. Eleven percent said laws should be made by state legislators and 8 percent would leave it up to Congress. The poll found 24 percent did not know how best to handle it.
Not surprised.
Hard right xtians vs more liberal xtians, agnostics, more intelligent people, atheists, people of other faiths and a few other categories adds up to a bigger number. Didn't anybody figure that out from the start? Apparently not.
Quote from: stromboli on April 09, 2015, 09:01:43 PMHard right xtians vs more liberal xtians, agnostics, more intelligent people, atheists, people of other faiths and a few other categories adds up to a bigger number. Didn't anybody figure that out from the start? Apparently not.
They had the numbers until they started losing the mainline Christians. But they mainly misjudged the march of history. (A common Republican problem) Lots of western countries have been softening their opinions (and policies) about gays for decades now. That's not going to stop because some fundies get upset and throw a tantrum.
I'm for religious freedom, even if I disagree or don't follow religion, but in some of these recent cases...in my eyes, it's just bigotry disguised as 'religious freedom.'
The Indiana religious freedom law is more correctly "the right to tell every one I'm a bigot law." If you figure that even in a society that is mostly Christian, you are still going to get a percentage of liberals, atheists, Buddhists, people of conscience and people that just don't like loud mouths. I daresay a 10% loss of business is a very conservative estimate. The idea is to attract customers, not turn them away. The willingness to lose customers and business and label yourself as a bigot doesn't strike me as an intelligent move.
Quote from: stromboli on April 10, 2015, 12:33:18 PM
The Indiana religious freedom law is more correctly "the right to tell every one I'm a bigot law." If you figure that even in a society that is mostly Christian, you are still going to get a percentage of liberals, atheists, Buddhists, people of conscience and people that just don't like loud mouths. I daresay a 10% loss of business is a very conservative estimate. The idea is to attract customers, not turn them away. The willingness to lose customers and business and label yourself as a bigot doesn't strike me as an intelligent move.
They're already hurting (http://abc11.com/politics/reaction-swift-to-possible-religious-freedom-bill-in-north-carolina-/589216/), and it'll likely get worse. This is good because North Carolina is considering a similar bill and there's a lot of concern over how it would affect our economy. Even conservatives are starting to balk at this stuff, though for entirely different reasons than liberals, but a nay vote is still a nay vote.
It very much depends on how the question is asked: One poll (http://maristpoll.marist.edu/313-tolerance-for-religious-rights/) says 54% support faith-based exemptions from laws and 65% oppose fines for wedding vendors who choose not to provide services to same -sex couples on religious grounds. Another (http://publicreligion.org/research/2014/06/employer-contraception/#.VSgUHPAsrlv) found that 80% opposed letting small business refuse services or goods to people based on the owners’ religious beliefs. A third (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/03/30/businesses-serving-same-sex-couples/) found 49% saying wedding service companies should have to provide services to gay-weddings while 47% say they should be able to refuse.
My assumption is that this wasn't an issue that most people had thought about before and now they are suddenly forced to think about it and are basing their opinion on the polls' question (is it phrased pro-religious freedom or pro-equal rights) without really considering the issue.
Quote from: Deidre32 on April 10, 2015, 12:22:13 PM
I'm for religious freedom, even if I disagree or don't follow religion, but in some of these recent cases...in my eyes, it's just bigotry disguised as 'religious freedom.'
Bingo
QuoteStromboli: The Indiana religious freedom law is more correctly "the right to tell every one I'm a bigot law." If you figure that even in a society that is mostly Christian, you are still going to get a percentage of liberals, atheists, Buddhists, people of conscience and people that just don't like loud mouths. I daresay a 10% loss of business is a very conservative estimate. The idea is to attract customers, not turn them away. The willingness to lose customers and business and label yourself as a bigot doesn't strike me as an intelligent move.
Bingo Again
Baking a wedding cake for a gay couple is hardly in the same category as selling meth to jr. high student. It's not like you're going to Hell for baking a cake that will make someone happy. I mean, Really! Get a grip on yourself.
On a side note, we have proof that Obama is turning everyone gay:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ezx5qpg.jpg)
I've seen a few articles against legalizing pot in Colorado. They usually revolve around how to resolve related legal issues or possibile ill effects on health. Both sides have their biases, but most are worth thinking about.
But articles against Gay Marriage often spell natural disasters, floods and famine, even the apocalypse. Such drastic predictions create an image of fear and paranoia that's been blown out of all proportion. We tend to accept these warnings from self appointed members of God's inner circle like Pat Robertson, because they make careers out of doom and gloom. But at the same time, as breath taking as these warnings are, most people ignore them. When the arguments become so wild and irrational, they loose their impact.
Quote from: stromboli on April 10, 2015, 10:26:52 PM
On a side note, we have proof that Obama is turning everyone gay:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ezx5qpg.jpg)
He is the Grand High Poobah of the KKGay! I KNEW IT.
Quote from: Hydra009 on April 10, 2015, 12:58:34 AM
They had the numbers until they started losing the mainline Christians. But they mainly misjudged the march of history. (A common Republican problem) Lots of western countries have been softening their opinions (and policies) about gays for decades now. That's not going to stop because some fundies get upset and throw a tantrum.
As my dad would say "Puh-xactly."