Recent stuff involving Islam on the forum

[pr126]

Baruch wrote:

if one is anti-Judeo-Christian or anti-Greco-Roman then by definition one is anti-Western.

You are absolutely correct.
Cultural Marxist indoctrination in academia is teaching against western culture for many decades now.

[TomFoolery]

I have to hide what I am otherwise a gang of Christian boys will beat me down in public places, I haven't told my family that I'm bi or an atheist because they'll kick me to the streets

You'll forgive me if I don't see peace as an option after what I have seen

Those ultra-liberal Lutheran grandparents I mentioned? They're retired, so they have a lot of time on their hands. Back in 2011 when the Minnesota legislature attempted to pass a bill banning gay marriage, they spent countless hours volunteering and distributing literature to prevent that bill from becoming law. They believe in a Christian God, and they believe in a gay individual's rights. So what you're saying is you hate them for believing in God because of the way some other people (who also believe in God and cherry pick scripture a little too literally) have treated you.

You're perpetuating a problem which is bigotry and violence towards others based on who they are and what they believe in instead of what they say and do.

[Shiranu]

Only now I'm seeing a thing where anti Islam is being seen not as atheistic thing and more like an "islamophobic" thing.

I'm sorry if I have come across that way when my intention was more anti-extremely-hyperbolic-and-misleading-anti-Islam. I think Islam has absolute boatloads of terrible things that need to be addressed... it's just the whole blowing it's sins out of proportions and implying it is infinitely and incomparably worse vs any other group in the world that get's on my nerves. That and calling for frankly un-American and un-ethical laws and treatment.

Atheists who must be destroyed at worst or shunned at best.

We all know that.

I really don't know that. I have said it before; I live in Central Texas... at least 6 Muslims, 2 Hindus and god knows how many Christians of various denominations (mostly Catholic and ELCA Lutheran) know I am an atheist. You know how many have shunned me or tried to convert me? Zero. The closest I have gotten is one of my Pakistani friends jokingly telling me that "Come on... you already have the name and beard, so when you going to convert?". Several of the Christians are openly gay and accepted within their church/family/community.

I grew up in a church until my family switched around 12 years old that was highly bigoted and highly sexist... I know they obviously exist... but even here in back-water United States they are more and more seen as "weird" and bigoted rather than being the majority. So I really don't know... when you say "we all know this"... what you mean. My life experience simply has not shown me that to be the case.

So I don't care that Muslims are mistreated/Just like I don't care about Christians mistreated

They deserve no sympathy or brotherhood as a people

I never denied being a bigot.

I'm sorry you feel that way but... then you are not a shred better than the people you condemn. Indifference to violence and hatred (and in truth... getting pleasure out of it as you seem to do) is just as "big of sin" as being the one who commits these things and will never change things for the better.

If my posts are that annoying then I will either stop if enough people want me to or just say toss me on your ignore list.

I think you'd discover if you look that a lot of "pro" Islam comes from Shiranu, who I believe has that heritage. There is some definite anti on here from other people.

More or less accurate... my only thing is I would say my position is one more of anti-xenophobia. That said... I am sure I sometimes over-react to things that probably aren't as anti-Muslim as they come across (to me). So when I do that I will say now that I am sorry for that.

[FaithIsFilth]

I never denied being a bigot. I hate who I hate for what they stand for and I don't claim to be on a oral high ground, I have friends who are Christian and Muslim. Good people. I hate their religion.

I don't care if they're mistreated. Because I've been my whole life and I've survived. Ever been beaten into a corner by your parents? Ever been attacked because you don't believe? Whipped with a belt because you said god dammit? Ever have that?

I don't care. Never have. Never will. The goodness in me was beaten out a long time ago. And I don't speak in metaphors

Well, I appreciate that you are at least honest about it. Yes, I've been attacked and beaten by my parents. I stood up to my father and physically showed him that I wasn't taking his shit anymore, and we've gotten along fantastic since that day. My dad is one of my best friends, and I get along with my mom good as well. Me standing up for myself fixed everything, but I know that's a risky move and could turn out really bad if you tried something like that. Yeah, it sucks that your parents might kick you out if they knew who you were, but not all Christians are like that. Not all Muslims dislike non-Muslims. I hung around with the Muslim kids when I went to school. They told me they believed that Islam was going to take over the world some day, but they still accepted me just fine as a non-Muslim. I was just another one of the boys. Their parents liked me, knowing I wasn't a Muslim. Yeah, sometimes someone would bring something up like "It's haram to eat with a non-Muslim", but the others would just shrug their shoulders and say "Whatever, he's cool." Plenty of Muslims and Christians are good people, and have no issue accepting people that are not just like them.

You can hate what Islam stands for, but we need to remember that when it comes down to it, most Muslims didn't choose their religion. It was drilled into their brains by their parents, who didn't know any better themselves. You say you will never care about the mistreatment of Muslims, but you are still very young. So many of my views have completely flipped from where they were when I was still living with my parents, and many of your views will flip eventually as well.

[Unbeliever]

"War is a racket. It always has been... A few profit - and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences. You can't eliminate it by peace parleys at Geneva. Well-meaning but impractical groups can't wipe it out by resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war."
Smedley Butler

Americans work, and earn a wage. Then they give part of their money to the federal government. Then the federal government spends money to make "war" (without congress even having to declare it) on people in other countries, maybe a trillion or more dollars.

But that money doesn't fall into a black hole, it goes into the bank accounts of people who already have billions of dollars - defense contractors, or, as I like to call them "war profiteers."

This is how income redistribution works. It always goes up the ladder, to those who can create jobs for us to kill others.

But how can we take the profit out of war? I doubt we will ever manage it. Hence, "the long war" will continue in perpetuity.

[Baruch]

I don't think Americans would feel safe, if we were 6x all the rest of humanity in number and war expenditure.  Like the Russians ... everyone on this planet is surrounded by armed enemies.

I didn't have too many problems with my parents.  But my father didn't accept me as a man, until I stood up to him when I was 21.  One's mother is a different matter.  I think it is the same with daughters standing up to mothers ;-)  Parents usually paternalize children of opposite gender.

[Baruch]

Baruch wrote:You are absolutely correct.
Cultural Marxist indoctrination in academia is teaching against western culture for many decades now.

This is why the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution (based on the French) were considered more demonic than other more middle class revolutions.  Both the French and Russian Revolutions rejected Judeo-Christian culture.  Nazism was half way ... they rejected just the Judeo-culture, but they also neutered the Christian culture too ... ultimately they were moving to neo-paganism.  A lot of the tension in the US is because of the rejection of the Greco-Roman by the more reactionary Judeo-Christians.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Gratuitous attacks on Islam help no one, and have proven time and again to egg on radicalization. Saying things like, "Where are the moderate Muslims?" is totally useless: how many of us went to the media to publicly denounce that atheist shooter last year? Where were the moderate atheists when Stalin and Mao were doing their thing? We make excuses to distance ourselves from those figures, sure, but all a theist hears is us dodging the issue of atheist mass-murderers. It's the same with Muslims: in general, Average Joe Muslim prefers to distance himself from extremism rather than come out and say, "That is wrong, I don't agree with it." Humans don't like being associated with things that they disagree with, and when given the choice of apologizing for another's actions and simply distancing themselves from said actions, we pretty much always choose the latter. We don't do this for logical reasons, and hence it doesn't matter what religion or lack thereof you adhere to: this is how you'll react.

This is going to turn into a rant if I continue, so I'll just end it here with George Carlin's commandment:

"Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."

[pr126]

I have been on this forum since January 5th 2005. In all the ten years of active posting not once I have seen a post asking not to criticize or demean Christians and Christianity.

The threads / post that demean Christianity way outnumbers posts on Muslim / Islam dissing  on this forum.

Nobody minds. It seems that is a free for all no holds barred.

While with Islam thread lightly, because watch out for the labels -  bigot, hater, Islamobhobe, fascist, Nazi, far-right, racist, and more. STFU.

The concept is now deeply internalized that Islam is off limits - GLOBALLY.
All other religions, have at it. Knock yourself out.

Finally several "excuses" by the media that Islam gets but never applies to Christianity (or any other religion).

The vast majority are moderate and peaceful
Only a tiny minority are violent.
Those are hijacking the peaceful religion.
It is not the real religion.
They are not true Scotchmen.
The are disenfranchised, socioeconomic, oppressed, marginalized.
Mentally disturbed.
Lone wolf.
Radicalized.
Extremist.
Militant. Etc, etc.

[Shiranu]

I have been on this forum since January 5th 2005. In all the ten years of active posting not once I have seen a post asking not to criticize or demean Christians and Christianity.

Oh... you mean like several people have done is this thread... some on this very page?

I mean... of all the threads you choose to say that.... you picked this one. I just don't even.

The threads / post that demean Christianity way outnumbers posts on Muslim / Islam dissing  on this forum.

Nobody minds. It seems that is a free for all no holds barred.

Yeah... that's generally because people don't come in here proclaiming that Christianity is going to be the end of civilization as we know it/asking where are moderate Christians condemning terrorism and theocratic policies/saying that Christians should be deported because "you never know they might be radical"/supporting candidates like Trump because "he is tough on them Christians!" regardless of how absolutely batshit he is/implying that all umph-illion Catholics are potentially little boy rapists and support a culture of choir boy rape/that Christians have a monopoly on the violence game... should I go on or do you get the point?

While with Islam thread lightly, because watch out for the labels -  bigot, hater, Islamobhobe, fascist, Nazi, far-right, racist, and more. STFU.

Poor little pr... how terrible it must be to be labeled things you actually aren't just because you share some common beliefs with them. I cant imagine how it must feel for people to accuse you because of your ideology of being radical. Of being part of a group that condones terrorism and seeks to install totalitarian governments. Of distrusting and fearing anyone who doesn't share your ideology and feeling that they need to be converted or dealt with.

Must be horrible.

P.S. - I can't remember the last time someone other than you or Baron used the term "Islamaphobe"... you keep on running around yelling that people are calling you it and yet only you say this word.

The concept is now deeply internalized that Islam is off limits - GLOBALLY.
All other religions, have at it. Knock yourself out.

Globally all other religions are fair game.

Mate... the broad brush... you need to stop painting with it just once.

[pr126]

Looks like my victim card has expired.   

[Hydra009]

I'm a bit late to this thread, and apologies if this has already been covered, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I am anti Islam, I am also anti Christian and anti Judaism and anti everything else.

I am anti-religious.  And by this I mean that I strive to lessen religion's role in public policy (and not just Christianity, but Islam and every other religion as well, though those two are by far the worst offenders), lessen the power of the priestly class, and ultimately build a more secular society.  I would like to emphasize that this goal should only be accomplished through non-violent, non-forcible means.

I am anti-religious.  And while I strongly disagree with people's religious beliefs, but do not hate the people themselves.  I would be a poor humanist if I wished harm or was indifferent to harm on people simply because they hold beliefs that I vociferously disagree with.  I loathe Christianity, not Christians.  I despise Islam, not Muslims.  I have had the luxury of living among people holding a pretty wide range of religious beliefs, there are decent people in every category.  I despise people for what they do, not for the beliefs they hold, no matter how idiotic they may be.  A violent criminal brings shame and sanction upon himself, but people who had nothing to do with it are not at fault, much less the entirely of some demographic they may share with others.  Certain people who engage in these sorts of threads have had a lamentably difficult time understanding this basic fact, and remain in the company of countless others throughout history who have made the same basic lapse in judgement - the same guilt by association - often with tragic results.  Ironically, some of these people are the jihadists themselves.

Ultimately, we cannot fight hate by embracing it.  That path leads nowhere.  Well, nowhere good.  Please, rise above that.

[pr126]

Ultimately, we cannot fight hate by embracing it.  That path leads nowhere.  Well, nowhere good.  Please, rise above that.

If you want to see real hate, discrimination, evil, bigotry, the call for  eternal war against the "other", I recommend chapter 9 from the Holy Quran.

Yeah. OK, I know. I am not helping.

[Baruch]

Looks like my victim card has expired.   

I thought it was your inner child that died.  You still need to find a new one.  Are you a grandparent?  If so, spend more time with the grandchildren in your declining years man!

[Baruch]

On the question of "why don't more Muslims condemn ISIS etc" ... that is coded wording for ... a non-Muslim wants the Muslims to engage in civil war, leave us non-Muslims out of it, until such time as all the bad Muslims are dead permanently or all Muslims are dead.  But that isn't how things work ... instead we have non-Muslims going into Muslim lands and encouraging bad Muslims and encouraging civil war (they didn't choose it themselves, the people in Syria had lived peacefully together for centuries) ... while we watch and eat popcorn.

Well why hasn't the US erupted in civil war ... where all the Rs kill all the Ds or vice versa.  If all Americans don't condemn and go out and kill every bad American ... depending on your voting record ... then you support all the bad things that Americans do at least by omission if not by commission.  Least of all, if you pay taxes, you support all the bad things that the American government does ... and so you all deserve to die ... unless you are an active violent anarchist ... is that pretty much what y'all are saying?  People have agendas backing what they say ... usually bad ones.