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Welcome aboard. We seem to be getting a bunch of Russians lately :)
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Hello, Welcome to the forum.
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Quote from: "Eve"I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
Really? I'm not.
Quote from: "Eve""Privet" is "Hi" in Russian and Ukrainian.
I am Christian. English is my second language so please forgive me for bad grammar. My English is far from perfect.
I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
:)
Hi, so you're christian eh? Well you must understand that this an Atheist forum. If you have an arguement, then you would have to prove with real evidence of your god. Otherwise there will no point in you going any further.
Now what would you like to talk about?
What do you mean when you say you are Christian? A lot of people go to church and Cease to be Christians. :popcorn: Solitary
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "Eve"I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
Really? I'm not.
:) that's OK. I will not force You, Friend.
You never answered my question. Usually the first sign of a troll. [-X Solitary
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Solitary"What do you mean when you say you are Christian?
Q:Who is Christian?
A:Person who believes that Christ is Messiah and who follows Him.
I believe and I follow Him.
Quote from: "Solitary"A lot of people go to church and Cease to be Christians. :popcorn: Solitary
I agree that it is possible.
Where do you follow Him?
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Where do you follow Him?[/quote]
Everywhere I go. :-D[/quote]
Is He there when you masturbate or go to the toilet? Can you send pictures? :shock:
Hmm.. Let's talk about the nude photos of yourself you want to share with us. :)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Hi, so you're christian eh? Well you must understand that this an Atheist forum.
Oh! I do, I do. :-D
Quote from: "mykcob4"If you have an arguement, then you would have to prove with real evidence of your god. Otherwise there will no point in you going any further.
To have an argument doesn't require a proof of anything.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Now what would you like to talk about?
many things. :-D
You said discussion not argument and anyway in science when you present your side it's called presenting your argument. You do have to have facts otherwise there is no reason to discuss it.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Solitary"What do you mean when you say you are Christian?
Q:Who is Christian?
A:Person who believes that Jesus is Messiah(Christ) and Savior and who follows Him.
I believe and I follow Him.
Quote from: "Solitary"A lot of people go to church and Cease to be Christians. :popcorn: Solitary
I agree that it is possible.
A christian is not necessarily your definition. A christian is just someone that obeys a doctrine that they believe to be christian. The doctrines of today can be argued as not christian at all but rather political manisfestation of different organizations.
If you declare that your belief is based on "the christian bible" then you have to pin down which bible as there are many versions that claim to be THE christian bible. And more to that fact there is no original bible to take a lead from. The scrolls were discovered many years after several well modified and edited bibles were published. The catholic church had control over what is called the bible for centuries and they threw out and added so many things that there is no resemblnce to what original they may have founded their bible on. Then the protestants edited and modified their versions so many times that they don't come close to what could actually be described as a bible.
That brings us to the next point that you may provide which is that you ascribe to the "word of god, or the will of god." Since there is no word of a god written of otherwise, we must take a look at the "will of god."
How can anyone know what that is? Since they can't prove a god, they can't prove the will of a god.
You have no way to back up anything that you say or wish to say and so we must dismiss anything that you provide for a discussion.
And since we must dismiss any of your post, for you TO post on any thread or start a thread we must consider you a troll. Thats unfortunate but it is the only logical recourse for everyone here.
You eve are a troll. Nothing you say can be considered with any credibility. Therefor you must with all haste leave at once. Find a fantasy forum that accepts the myths of gods and hearsay books of allagory. You can play like the uneducated children that you are. Armymen, dollies, dungeons & dragons and gods....all the same, childish.
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Quote from: "Eve"To have an argument doesn't require a proof of anything.
No, but winning an argument does.
Please remember these guidelines while you're having your "interesting" discussions:
- Every argument you make about religion is one we have heard a thousand times.
- Most of what you say will be dismissed out of hand. (See above.)
- If we're in a good mood, we'll answer your arguments.
- If you answer our counterpoints by repeating your assertion, we'll make fun of you.
- If you're a good girl and we're feeling exceptionally generous, we might actually take the time to explain our beliefs and the reasoning behind them to you.
- Should you demonstrate the latter point to be a waste of our time, we usually start calling for the banhammer.
- Besides you, we have exactly one theist on the forum at the moment who has not either left or been banned.
Have fun, now. :-D
Quote from: "Eve"FACT: physical matter/chaos has no intelligence. Which means has no purposes/no goals, and no desires. Physical matter doesn't need to organize itself.
Yet matter does organize itself. Many such instances of it doing so are easily reproduced in a laboratory.
Quote from: "Eve"FACT: rock can not produce something intelligent or organize something. Why? it doesn't have to and it doesn't need to.
No one has ever claimed that rocks produce intelligence. Er, let me amend that statement:
no one who knows what the fuck they're talking about has ever claimed this.
Quote from: "Eve"FACT: it has to be an intelligence to have a desire and purpose to create something
This is verifiably wrong.
Quote from: "Eve"ARGUMENT: base on these facts why do I have to believe that eternal and infinite chaos will create intelligence? or organize anything without having intelligence?
Because it happens, we observe it happening, and we can reproduce the chemical reactions in laboratory conditions.
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As per aitm doctrine... Nude pics or it didn't happen.
It's at the top of every page here..Thank you. :)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"A christian is not necessarily your definition.
I don't have my definition. I shared with You Christ's definition. :-D
Quote from: "mykcob4"A christian is just someone that obeys a doctrine that they believe to be christian.
Who says?
Quote from: "mykcob4"The doctrines of today can be argued as not christian at all but rather political manisfestation of different organizations.
I agree.
Quote from: "mykcob4"If you declare that your belief is based on "the christian bible" then you have to pin down which bible as there are many versions that claim to be THE christian bible.
No, I don't declare this.
Quote from: "mykcob4"And more to that fact there is no original bible to take a lead from. The scrolls were discovered many years after several well modified and edited bibles were published. The catholic church had control over what is called the bible for centuries and they threw out and added so many things that there is no resemblnce to what original they may have founded their bible on. Then the protestants edited and modified their versions so many times that they don't come close to what could actually be described as a bible.
Thanks for info. But I already knew this.
Quote from: "mykcob4"That brings us to the next point that you may provide which is that you ascribe to the "word of god, or the will of god." Since there is no word of a god written of otherwise, we must take a look at the "will of god."
Word of God is truth. There are parts of truth in the Bible(bibles)
Quote from: "mykcob4"How can anyone know what that(will) is? Since they can't prove a god, they can't prove the will of a god.
By receiving personal revelation. By knowing what His Prophets say in our days.
Quote from: "mykcob4"You have no way to back up anything that you say or wish to say and so we must dismiss anything that you provide for a discussion.
I don't have to back up anything I say. Why? Because I don't make You to believe in God of Israel.
Quote from: "mykcob4"And since we must dismiss any of your post, for you TO post on any thread or start a thread we must consider you a troll. Thats unfortunate but it is the only logical recourse for everyone here.
You may consider whatever You wish, friend. I respect You. :-D
Quote from: "mykcob4"You eve are a troll. Nothing you say can be considered with any credibility. Therefor you must with all haste leave at once.
Must?
Troll troll troll. Can I make it any plainer? You haven't refuted anything that I've said. Sooner or later you must leave either on your own or by virtue of the board you will be ousted. I am not threatening you and I can't make you go away but be rest assured it will happen.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"You said discussion not argument and anyway in science when you present your side it's called presenting your argument. You do have to have facts otherwise there is no reason to discuss it.
FACT: physical matter/chaos has no intelligence. Which means has no purposes/no goals, and no desires. Physical matter doesn't need to organize itself.
FACT: rock can not produce something intelligent or organize something. Why? it doesn't have to and it doesn't need to.
FACT: it has to be an intelligence to have a desire and purpose to create something
ARGUMENT: base on these facts why do I have to believe that eternal and infinite chaos will create intelligence? or organize anything without having intelligence?
:-D
Lets just assume the things that you claim as fact really are...and they're not. It doesn't mean that there is any god whatsoever. You are making a huge leap ignoring the connection required to be the truth. You say that something has to have intelligence to create something, but you don't prove that any god let alone YOUR god was the intelligence that YOU ASSUME is needed to create something. So even if you're right( and you're not), you're only half right and you make an illogical assumption for the rest of it.
Here are the real facts. Something can be and has been created out of nothing Stephen Hawking proved it and provides his proof in a scientific paper presented to the British Academy of Science but also in his book 'Something From Nothing.' http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/rel ... 2_ST_N.htm (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-03-hawking02_ST_N.htm)
Your 'arguments are falling flat, but nude pics fix everything...unless you're..err..you know...ugly? :lol:
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I vote ugly..and by the way.. I don't play these silly games of trying to prove there is no god. If there were a god I'm pretty sure he/she/it would 'personally' tell me and not some fucking preacher I have no reason whatsoever to believe.
Just wondering 'Eve'.. How thankful are you for your god slamming the Philippines recently with a typhoon killing so many and leaving hundreds of thousand homeless with nowhere to go? Gee thanks god. :roll:
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"HE" has never said one damned word. "HE" isn't real, but obviously you're not really convinced "HE" is as powerful as "HE" claims.
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Long arguments that have been made here multiple times, but at the end, Eve, your belief is based on unproven assumptions. Consider that 6,000 years of history and centuries of intellectual inquiry have not produced evidence of a god, your god or any other. There is no list of proven miracles, no list of proven prophecies, a host of contradictory claims and yes, the bible does support slavery
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm (http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm)
Just so you know.
QuoteSomething can not be created from nothing. Even kindergardeners know this. But there is FACT: intelligent being can CREATE or better to say ORGANIZE something from something.
Are you trying to say God made himself, or that the universe is intelligent?
Have you ever heard of Synchronized Chaos? No God or intelligence needed.
[youtube:2hjd69xn]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQdYw2Gb1UI[/youtube:2hjd69xn]
You can't explain that with a God or intelligence. Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"In laboratory? Are You saying that intelligent beings created conditions for matter to be organized? What if there was no laboratory and conditions that were created by intelligence?
Matter organized by itself in laboratory only because intelligent beings HAD DESIRE to make it possible.
If there was no intelligent being and laboratory that particular organization would never happen.
You seem to be confusing laboratory experiments with engineering. A laboratory re-creates a natural condition that causes the event to occur. You do this because it is either unfeasible to perform the experiment in a natural environment (i.e. studying the effects of vacuum, which would normally require going into space), or because the environment no longer exists (i.e. the conditions for life to form, which occurred in Early Earth and whose conditions no longer occur on Modern Earth). If it can be reproduced in a laboratory experiment, it can occur in nature. Engineering is when we build lasers and shit that, as far as we know, do
not occur in nature. Big difference.
Quote from: "Eve"I know. Rock is physical matter and will never organize anything. It has no intelligence that gods/creators/humans have.
Rock can still interact with surrounding chemicals. Regardless, science does not claim that life came from rocks. (Though the Bible, ironically, thinks we do.)
Quote from: "Eve"Do You have any example on Earth: that something that doesn't have intelligence would have some kind of desire or goal/purpose?
Strawman question. No one but you is claiming any such thing.
Quote from: "Eve"I like these words of Yours:" and WE can reproduce the chemical reactions in laboratory conditions".
In other words: WE(GODS/CREATORS/INTELLIGENT BEINGS) can reproduce chemical reaction in laboratory conditions. Conditions that were created by US(GODS/CREATORS). If not US/WE there wouldn't be that specific creation in one small part of Universe(laboratory).
:-D
There's no creation going on. It is only an interaction of chemicals, and
any chemical reaction we can reproduce can and does occur in nature. You really don't understand how a lab experiment works, do you? Take it from someone who has actually conducted a few: they don't work the way you seem to think.
Quotewhy would chaos/physical matter organize something?
That's a good question. But it does happen.
[youtube:i17qxm0f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gViLqrT6UUU[/youtube:i17qxm0f]
And how about this one: [youtube:150qh4k1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8ciWSgc_k[/youtube:150qh4k1] These all show order out of Chaos without intelligence.
??????! ????????
Quote from: "Eugeny Anatolievich"??????! ????????
moi dela xorosho. spasibo droog :)
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QuoteMy assumption that it takes some intelligence to organize something out of chaos(something that is not organized) is based on facts.
No it isn't. It's based on not knowing very much about the real world.
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You seem to be confusing 'desire to organise' and 'having a purpose' with 'things happening'. You don't need a desire to organise, to organise.
Also you seem to have a very strange idea of 'un-organized matter' which you will need to define better for us to properly crush your argument.
Quote from: "Eve"Organization of something always has a purpose.
No. Not always. Some natural things look like artificial ones. They look like things made for specific purposes. You can ask: "What for do we have legs?" What is an answer? "To walk".
But it is a wrong question, which has no right answer.
The right question is: "Why do we walk and don't fly?" Answer: "Because we have legs and hasn't wings".
Do you know this man?
(//http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Kant_Kaliningrad.jpg/396px-Kant_Kaliningrad.jpg)
This is Immanuel Kant.
He asks you: "Why do you ask wrong and senseless questions? Read 'Critique of Judgement'!"
Well that escalated quickly.
Quote from: "Eve"FACT: physical matter/chaos has no intelligence. Which means has no purposes/no goals, and no desires. Physical matter doesn't need to organize itself.
I'll see your chaos and raise you a Boltzmann brain (//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain)
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"You seem to be confusing 'desire to organise' and 'having a purpose' with 'things happening'. You don't need a desire to organise, to organise.
Yes, I can do it against my will/desire. Chaos/physical matter has no desire. And it has no will.
Again; you do not need will or desire to organise.
QuoteQuote from: "Plu"Also you seem to have a very strange idea of 'un-organised matter'.
How do You know that I have a strange idea about un-organised matter? Did I explain it?
Not properly, no. I'm just deducting that you have strange ideas from what little you've shared. I'll gladly update my position when I get more information; that's how it works.
QuoteQuoteQuote from: "Plu"'un-organised matter' which you will need to define better for us to properly crush your argument
It is something that is not organized. :-D It is chaos.
This is a cyclical argument, which brings us nowhere. You need to define the word in basic terms both sides understand.
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QuoteDidn't I already agree? But at least I need some intelligence. Physical matter has no intelligence.
You do not need intelligence to organise either. Organising can be done by natural processes.
QuoteI know about chaos(un-organized matter) probably as mush as You do. I believe that it was time when our Universe didn't not exist/was not organised. It became to exist/was organised long time ago. It didn't appear/organised out of nothing. That "thing" from which it is organized is "un-organized matter". I hope it helped.
Right, so strange ideas, like I said. You have no idea what you're talking about. You are making problems that aren't known to exist and then present ideas to solve those problems that aren't known to exist with solutions that cannot be verified to work... because the problem they intend to solve isn't real. It's all a big excercise in futility.
Quote from: "Plu"You do not need intelligence to organise either. Organising can be done by natural processes.
Kinda like how you get natural diamonds and synthetic diamonds?
I can use my intelligence to create an diamond. Or I can go out and find one in nature.
Both are neatly ordered arrangements of carbon, yet one was created by an intelligent agent, and the other was not.
Quote from: "Eve"I know about chaos(un-organized matter) probably as mush as You do.
Quick question. What is chaos?
Welcome, Eve. Russian Orthodox?
You have to understand that most of the Christians we get here are Protestant fundamentalists who think anyone who isn't a Protestant fundamentalist is damned, the theory of evolution is a conspiracy to promote atheism, and we all really know there is a God, we just say we don't so we can fornicate without guilt.
Unless you reveal what kind of Christian you are, you're likely to suffer from presumptions born from habit.
We really would like to hear arguments we haven't heard a thousand times before. That 'unorganized matter' (what is this 'unorganized matter' you speak of?) can't organize might be new, depending on what you mean by 'unorganized matter'. Your reference to matter in a lab already being organized leads me to suspect you mean something besides 'ordinary' matter. Would you elaborate, please?
I am done with this stupid bitch Eve. She is obviously brainwashed, confused, and more over not interested in facts. She thinks that she has a good argument, but everyone has shot big gaping holes in her "ASSUMPTIONS" the size of which can only be matched by the one in her head.
There is no god and she refuses to produce any direct evidence that there ever was a god. She takes a wild illogical leap concluding that because things exist some "intelligent being" created them.
When we actually produced evidence from her own bible of not only contradictions but actual biblical endorsements of slavery and other reprehensible actions, she offers what she says is god's will and the socalled word of god, even though there is nothing, absolutely nothing to prove that it isn't just made up statements by her and other mortals.
She ignore science and facts that have been more than varified, because she doesn't want to accept that her "assumptions" are completely unfounded and wrong.
Fuck this retard. I say ban the troll. She is an utter waste of time.
And she can keep that condescending "friend" shit. It is disrespectful. We aren't her friends not even mere acquaintences. We're random people on a forum that have one thing in common, that we don't buy this unproven god shit and deplore that it is used to rule over people.
Privet hell! Nyet, Nyet, Nyet!!!!!!
Tell me, Eve, how do crystals form? How can two hydrogen atoms bond with an oxygen atom; do they all have some intelligence telling them to organize this way? How clever does a geode need to be to know how to build itself? Does Mount Elbrus have a mind in each peak?
QuotePhysical matter has no intelligence.
Then how do you explain the fact that we are made of physical matter that has intelligence, and when it is anesthetized, hit hard in the head, or taking drugs it is effected? #-o :rollin: Solitary
Quote from: "Solitary"QuotePhysical matter has no intelligence.
Then how do you explain the fact that we are made of physical matter that has intelligence, and when it is anesthetized, hit hard in the head, or taking drugs it is effected? #-o :rollin: Solitary
The intelligence you experience is the emergent behaviour of many of your bodies components interacting (Not just your brain curiously enough).
Quote from: "Eve"I don't confuse with engineering. Physical matter that scientist use in laboratory is already organized matter. Organized matter obeys laws of Universe. Organized matter can produce something. Take un-organized matter to laboratory and see how it will organize itself into something or how it will produce something. I believe You will wait forever.
Un-organized matter, also known as energy. We have developed methods of converting energy into matter, such as high-energy collisions converting kinetic energy into a shower of particles. People have won Nobel Prizes for doing precisely what you claim would have us "wait forever" to happen.
Quote from: "Eve"Bible doesn't say this.
Genesis 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Not dirt, dust, which is an older term for sand. Sand is just tiny granules of rock.
Quote from: "Eve"I don't claim this. Opposite I claim that I don't know any example that something that doesn't have intelligence will have desire to organize something or have a purpose.
I can't tell if you're intentionally misinterpreting my statements or if you're just that bad at English, but let me rephrase that:
Science does not claim that unguided forces require a purpose to accomplish activities. You are suggesting that it does claim this, which is a strawman assertion. Ergo, you are the only one making the claim. Is that clear enough for you? Because if it's not, you're an idiot.
I don't know where you're getting this silly idea that unguided processes need purpose to take action. Unguided processes take action all the time. Just look at the sun: every second it is converting matter into energy through the process of thermonuclear fusion, and due to the sheer power of this interaction some of that energy turns back into matter (just like our lab experiments). The sun does everything you claim can only be accomplished by your god, it formed entirely on its own, and it's not even the most powerful type of star. (On the contrary, it's actually on the weaker end of the scale.)
Quote from: "mykcob4"I am done with this stupid bitch Eve. She is obviously brainwashed, confused, and more over not interested in facts. She thinks that she has a good argument, but everyone has shot big gaping holes in her "ASSUMPTIONS" the size of which can only be matched by the one in her head.
There is no god and she refuses to produce any direct evidence that there ever was a god. She takes a wild illogical leap concluding that because things exist some "intelligent being" created them.
When we actually produced evidence from her own bible of not only contradictions but actual biblical endorsements of slavery and other reprehensible actions, she offers what she says is god's will and the socalled word of god, even though there is nothing, absolutely nothing to prove that it isn't just made up statements by her and other mortals.
She ignore science and facts that have been more than varified, because she doesn't want to accept that her "assumptions" are completely unfounded and wrong.
Fuck this retard. I say ban the troll. She is an utter waste of time.
And she can keep that condescending "friend" shit. It is disrespectful. We aren't her friends not even mere acquaintences. We're random people on a forum that have one thing in common, that we don't buy this unproven god shit and deplore that it is used to rule over people.
Privet hell! Nyet, Nyet, Nyet!!!!!!
Take it easy dude . She would not last more than a week here . Any bets ?
Quote from: "leo"Quote from: "mykcob4"I am done with this stupid bitch Eve. She is obviously brainwashed, confused, and more over not interested in facts. She thinks that she has a good argument, but everyone has shot big gaping holes in her "ASSUMPTIONS" the size of which can only be matched by the one in her head.
There is no god and she refuses to produce any direct evidence that there ever was a god. She takes a wild illogical leap concluding that because things exist some "intelligent being" created them.
When we actually produced evidence from her own bible of not only contradictions but actual biblical endorsements of slavery and other reprehensible actions, she offers what she says is god's will and the socalled word of god, even though there is nothing, absolutely nothing to prove that it isn't just made up statements by her and other mortals.
She ignore science and facts that have been more than varified, because she doesn't want to accept that her "assumptions" are completely unfounded and wrong.
Fuck this retard. I say ban the troll. She is an utter waste of time.
And she can keep that condescending "friend" shit. It is disrespectful. We aren't her friends not even mere acquaintences. We're random people on a forum that have one thing in common, that we don't buy this unproven god shit and deplore that it is used to rule over people.
Privet hell! Nyet, Nyet, Nyet!!!!!!
Take it easy dude . She would not last more than a week here . Any bets ?
I just wanted to put this bitch in perspective. Shes yet another troll. There are plenty of places to troll. I don't want to see it here.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Quote from: "mykcob4"I am done with this stupid bitch Eve. She is obviously brainwashed, confused, and more over not interested in facts. She thinks that she has a good argument, but everyone has shot big gaping holes in her "ASSUMPTIONS" the size of which can only be matched by the one in her head.
There is no god and she refuses to produce any direct evidence that there ever was a god. She takes a wild illogical leap concluding that because things exist some "intelligent being" created them.
When we actually produced evidence from her own bible of not only contradictions but actual biblical endorsements of slavery and other reprehensible actions, she offers what she says is god's will and the socalled word of god, even though there is nothing, absolutely nothing to prove that it isn't just made up statements by her and other mortals.
She ignore science and facts that have been more than varified, because she doesn't want to accept that her "assumptions" are completely unfounded and wrong.
Fuck this retard. I say ban the troll. She is an utter waste of time.
And she can keep that condescending "friend" shit. It is disrespectful. We aren't her friends not even mere acquaintences. We're random people on a forum that have one thing in common, that we don't buy this unproven god shit and deplore that it is used to rule over people.
Privet hell! Nyet, Nyet, Nyet!!!!!!
Take it easy dude . She would not last more than a week here . Any bets ?
That's OK. I know that progressives get angry easily when somebody is different then them. They care only about those who agree with them. Those who have different thinking those they wish to exterminate, no opportunities, no rights to those. Typical communist thinking, lack of civility. I get used to it.
I'm not angry . I was pointing out theist trolls usually don't last more than a week here . You will have your fun trolling the site and we will have our fun too . So in that sense we are even . :yawinkle: :yawinkle: :yawinkle:
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Quote from: "mykcob4"I am done with this stupid bitch Eve. She is obviously brainwashed, confused, and more over not interested in facts. She thinks that she has a good argument, but everyone has shot big gaping holes in her "ASSUMPTIONS" the size of which can only be matched by the one in her head.
There is no god and she refuses to produce any direct evidence that there ever was a god. She takes a wild illogical leap concluding that because things exist some "intelligent being" created them.
When we actually produced evidence from her own bible of not only contradictions but actual biblical endorsements of slavery and other reprehensible actions, she offers what she says is god's will and the socalled word of god, even though there is nothing, absolutely nothing to prove that it isn't just made up statements by her and other mortals.
She ignore science and facts that have been more than varified, because she doesn't want to accept that her "assumptions" are completely unfounded and wrong.
Fuck this retard. I say ban the troll. She is an utter waste of time.
And she can keep that condescending "friend" shit. It is disrespectful. We aren't her friends not even mere acquaintences. We're random people on a forum that have one thing in common, that we don't buy this unproven god shit and deplore that it is used to rule over people.
Privet hell! Nyet, Nyet, Nyet!!!!!!
Take it easy dude . She would not last more than a week here . Any bets ?
That's OK. I know that progressives get angry easily when somebody is different then them. They care only about those who agree with them. Those who have different thinking those they wish to exterminate, no opportunities, no rights to those. Typical communist thinking, lack of civility. I get used to it.
Blah blah blah, what a bunch of bullshit. Theist are the most prejudice fucktards the world have ever seen, the whole superrace crap! Shut the fuck up you fascist cunt.
Quote from: "Eve"That's OK. I know that progressives get angry easily when somebody is different then them. They care only about those who agree with them. Those who have different thinking those they wish to exterminate, no opportunities, no rights to those. Typical communist thinking, lack of civility. I get used to it.
Who are these "progressives" that you're always on about? You seem to be tilting at windmills.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"Tell me, Eve, how do crystals form? How can two hydrogen atoms bond with an oxygen atom; do they all have some intelligence telling them to organize this way?
How clever does a geode need to be to know how to build itself? Does Mount Elbrus have a mind in each peak?
This world doesn't need Gods to govern itself. But it needs to be Gods for worlds to be organized.
And the difference in kind between a world governing itself and being organized is?
Are you saying crystals and molecules and geodes aren't organized?
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"And the difference in kind between a world governing itself and being organized is?
Organization of this world needs involvement of intelligence. Once it is build right it can govern itself, which means it doesn't need intelligence.
Quote from: "Poison Tree"Are you saying crystals and molecules and geodes aren't organized?
No, I don't say it. They are organized in already organized world(world that governs itself). This world creates conditions(thanks to Gods) under which different things get organized without intelligence.
Gods created first chicken with ability to reproduce, then chicken creates eggs without God's direct involvement. First was chicken then egg.
You keep saying "god's direct involvement" but you actually fail to make the connection of direct involvement. How about proof positive of what you assert and assume instead of conjecture, faulty logic, and pure spectulation.
Quote from: "Eve"Organization of this world needs involvement of intelligence. Once it is build right it can govern itself, which means it doesn't need intelligence.
Why is it the WORLD that needs organization? Couldn't god have provided organization for the universe?
Quote from: "Eve"Gods created first chicken with ability to reproduce, then chicken creates eggs without God's direct involvement. First was chicken then egg.
Now it is suddenly not even just the world that needs god to step in and organize it, but individual species. This god of yours is growing increasingly impotent. Why would god need to create a chicken? Was he suddenly too dense to simply let evolution run its course? Could he not organize the world such that a chicken would be a byproduct?
I almost forgot that his previous organizing is apparently so inept that you say he needs to step in and organize you personally.
:lol: :roll Isn't this fun? Ask Eve any question and she has an answer, and like every other Christian she answers it with an invisible God did it, or the new addition gods did it. Nothing new here accept the rationalization of a god does it all at first and lets the ball run downhill. Since no one knows the answer to most of the universe or how it began or has always existed, by saying a god did it there is no way to refute the claim because it is based on assumptions on both sides what is actually factual and therefore illogical and argued with Slick Maneuvers like a neurotic would do to win at any cost and get a kick out of it. Well done Eve! =D> You have quarreled very well using Slick Maneuvers that are all Logical Fallacies to win. But it signifies nothing accept you are a Master at using faulty reasoning and thinking winning like a lawyer would do makes you right when the truth is blowing in the win. =D> :popcorn: Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"And the difference in kind between a world governing itself and being organized is?
Organization of this world needs involvement of intelligence.
That's demonstrably false. Things self organise all the time.
It's the same old story. Some megachurch has a bank of computers set up so they can use brainwashed morons to troll and spam websites that they don't like. Usually they seek out Liberal or Democratic party sites, but invaribly they land here on the Atheist Forum.
What is interesting is that these morons have "evolved" and learned that they just can't be the same old troll spammer christians that they really are. Oh no, they have to use a disguise. The latest popular one is to pose as Russians or exotic foriegners. They admit that they are christian but always say that they are looking for a different perspective. They want a fight an argument. The most creative and interesting one is the one that posed as a member of a secret think tank organization called the "Smurfs".
The thing is that they all think that they have a new slant on their mythology that will in their delluded minds make all people renounce sanity and join their little band of idiots....to what end who knows for sure.
Now we have Eve as our latest chew toy, with her "organization theory", as if we haven't heard that one before. With her strategic broken English, and half disguised intelligent design bullshit.
Her "friend" crap, and her fake Russian nonsense.
The most interesting thing for me about these people is that they just aren't confident in themselves to be truthful about who they really are. When one is that weak as a person, then their ideology is also as weak. They defend themselves and their fucked arguments with pat answers that they have been brainwashed into saying. Notice how Eve lapsed into the whole Proggressive/Communist thing. Funny how Communist have been the boogieman that they think that they can liken anyone and anything to being communist and they think that that justifies their weak illogical argument. We pushed her/him to the point that the tea party finally came out and she began an Obamacare rant.
Its like reading the cliff notes and talking points issued by the FOX corporations editors, you know the ones the send on a daily basis to all republican candidates.
Eve has been thouroughly thrashed for her inept efforts and I feel sure that she will be gone soon, but mark my word within days of her leaving there will be another Russian, Eastern European, foriegner, with a new slant on christianity to troll here. This forum is on the radar of some megachurch somewhere and they are bound and determined to convert all of us and or shut us down.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Welcome, Eve. Russian Orthodox?
thank You! No, I am not.
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"You have to understand that most of the Christians we get here are Protestant fundamentalists who think anyone who isn't a Protestant fundamentalist is damned, the theory of evolution is a conspiracy to promote atheism, and we all really know there is a God, we just say we don't so we can fornicate without guilt.
Unless you reveal what kind of Christian you are, you're likely to suffer from presumptions born from habit.
I am LDS.
I see the LDS missionary efforts in Russia are bearing fruit. Thanks for being forthcoming about that.
Quote from: "Eve"Un-organized matter is a material from which intelligent beings(Gods) organize worlds. Mortals in labs deal with matter that is already organized. Organized matter obeys natural laws. Once Gods organize a world everything in this world is obeying laws. Gods don't have to be involve in every process any more. Gods don't need to create children for humans. Gods create a couple and give them ability to create their own children. Gods create planets with ability to produce life.
It seems like the only evidence of 'unorganized matter' being possible is that you need it in order for gods to explain it. Have you considered that it may not be possible for there to be no natural laws at all? All a natural law is, is a description of how something in the universe behaves. The only way for there to be no laws is for there to be no behavior, which means there would have to be absolutely nothing, because something MUST behave in some way. So your 'unorganized matter' winds up being nothing at all. There's no scientific reason to suppose such a state can exist, or that it would be stable if it did.
Quote from: "Eve"Building material un-organized physical matter can not organize itself. Gods organize it.
Desert will never organize oasis. But intelligent being can create/oerganize oasis in the middle of the desert. Does he have to be involved personally all the time in every process that happens in oasis?
Intelligent beings use nature for their purposes. Gods use nature for their own purposes. They organize worlds for their own purposes. They see if worlds continue to obey the laws and govern themselves. When they do Gods say:" it is good"
This is all mere assertion. As has been said, that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. It sounds quite made-up.
Quote from: "Eve"Intelligent being looks at oasis in the desert and when everything obeys laws, continues the way it was planed he says:"it is good". God created us and we govern ourselves. He created our bodies and they(bodies) govern themselves. Gods don't get involved in everything we do. And if do not obey the laws we starting a path of self destruction.
Perhaps, but I don't think 'unorganized matter' comes into it, because I see no reason to think it's more than a fantasy substance made up to give your gods something for which to be necessary.
Quote from: "mykcob4"It's the same old story. Some megachurch has a bank of computers set up so they can use brainwashed morons to troll and spam websites that they don't like. Usually they seek out Liberal or Democratic party sites, but invaribly they land here on the Atheist Forum.
What is interesting is that these morons have "evolved" and learned that they just can't be the same old troll spammer christians that they really are. Oh no, they have to use a disguise. The latest popular one is to pose as Russians or exotic foriegners. They admit that they are christian but always say that they are looking for a different perspective. They want a fight an argument. The most creative and interesting one is the one that posed as a member of a secret think tank organization called the "Smurfs".
The thing is that they all think that they have a new slant on their mythology that will in their delluded minds make all people renounce sanity and join their little band of idiots....to what end who knows for sure.
Now we have Eve as our latest chew toy, with her "organization theory", as if we haven't heard that one before. With her strategic broken English, and half disguised intelligent design bullshit.
Her "friend" crap, and her fake Russian nonsense.
The most interesting thing for me about these people is that they just aren't confident in themselves to be truthful about who they really are. When one is that weak as a person, then their ideology is also as weak. They defend themselves and their fucked arguments with pat answers that they have been brainwashed into saying. Notice how Eve lapsed into the whole Proggressive/Communist thing. Funny how Communist have been the boogieman that they think that they can liken anyone and anything to being communist and they think that that justifies their weak illogical argument. We pushed her/him to the point that the tea party finally came out and she began an Obamacare rant.
Its like reading the cliff notes and talking points issued by the FOX corporations editors, you know the ones the send on a daily basis to all republican candidates.
Eve has been thouroughly thrashed for her inept efforts and I feel sure that she will be gone soon, but mark my word within days of her leaving there will be another Russian, Eastern European, foriegner, with a new slant on christianity to troll here. This forum is on the radar of some megachurch somewhere and they are bound and determined to convert all of us and or shut us down.
Excellent post! =D> Solitary
Quote from: "mykcob4"Notice how Eve lapsed into the whole Proggressive/Communist thing. Funny how Communist have been the boogieman that they think that they can liken anyone and anything to being communist and they think that that justifies their weak illogical argument.
Not to mention that Communism doesn't really scare anyone who isn't old enough to remember the USSR (myself included). If you're trying to invoke McCarthyism, you'd have better luck accusing us of terrorism these days. As it is, I was more confused by Eve's bringing it up than anything else.
Quote from: "Eve""Privet" is "Hi" in Russian and Ukrainian.
I am Christian. English is my second language so please forgive me for bad grammar. My English is far from perfect.
I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
:)
Hi!
Can you tell me what LDS is.
I not familiar with Christianity much.
Maybe you can make me see the light.
I am not as knowledgeable or OLD as these other guys are, so i would like to know what you believe in and why :-k
Quote from: "Eve""Privet" is "Hi" in Russian and Ukrainian.
I am Christian. English is my second language so please forgive me for bad grammar. My English is far from perfect.
I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
:)
Hi!
Can you tell me what LDS is.
I not familiar with Christianity much.
Maybe you can make me see the light.
I am not as knowledgeable or OLD as these other guys are, so i would like to know what you believe in and why :-k
Quote from: "CloneKai"Quote from: "Eve""Privet" is "Hi" in Russian and Ukrainian.
I am Christian. English is my second language so please forgive me for bad grammar. My English is far from perfect.
I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
:)
Hi!
Can you tell me what LDS is.
I not familiar with Christianity much.
Maybe you can make me see the light.
I am not as knowledgeable or OLD as these other guys are, so i would like to know what you believe in and why :-k
LDS is Latter Day Saints a sect of the Mormon church and their religion is so wacked out that I think that they must be on LSD to be an LDS!
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "the_antithesis"Quote from: "Eve"I am looking forward for any productive and fun discussions.
Really? I'm not.
:) that's OK. I will not force You, Friend.
What I meant was the discussions are never productive or fun.
:-|
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"about proof:
you have two choices: 1) You may believe it and accept it; 2)You may not believe it and reject it
You have the right to your own opinion but not your own facts. Your proofs so far are mere assertions.
Quote. But God created my intelligence personally
an assertion that cannot be backed up. Your intelligence is a byproduct of your being, which as everyone has shown you, is proven to be by evolution. That is the fact and you choose not to believe it. That does not mean you are ignorant but stupid in that you choose to ignore facts in favor of faith.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"Couldn't god have provided organization for the universe?
No. God of this world is not God of INFINITE space.
So god has a god? Does god's god have a god? Is it gods all the way up?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"Now it is suddenly not even just the world that needs god to step in and organize it, but individual species. This god of yours is growing increasingly impotent. Why would god need to create a chicken? Was he suddenly too dense to simply let evolution run its course? Could he not organize the world such that a chicken would be a byproduct?
Physical matter can not create intelligence. It doesn't need intelligence. BECAUSE it does NOT have intelligence. But intelligence can create another intelligence. Chicken has intelligence.
P.S. By the way according to the revelations from God of this world chicken was created before God created this world. First chicken of this Earth was created far from earth. It was placed here once upon a time. According to revelations from God of this world I may assume that there was no first chicken ever and it will never be the last chicken.
[/quote]
No first or last chicken? How could god create "chicken" if there was no first chicken? If there was no first chicken then when was chicken created; after chicken already existed for infinite chickens? Are you just throwing-up words and hoping some will stick?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"I almost forgot that his previous organizing is apparently so inept that you say he needs to step in and organize you personally.
Physical matter(this world) can not create intelligence. Only intelligence can create another intelligence. And God of this world didn't create my physical body personaly. This world created my physical body with help of my parents. But God created my intelligence personally.
Is god intelligent? (Apparently not very since he can't create systems that allow intelligence to originate organically) Never the less, if he is intelligent what intelligence created his intelligence? And which intelligence created that one? And that one?
[spoil:11axy807]And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one? And that one?[/spoil:11axy807]
Back to "turtles all the way down", eh?
:-|
:-|
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Have you considered that it may not be possible for there to be no natural laws at all?
All a natural law is, is a description of how something in the universe behaves.
I would say that law is more an instruction than just description. We can call natural law and judicial law " an instruction". And always there are consequence when we follow instruction or do not follow. Follow instruction/obey the law and result - progression. If not result - destruction/self-destruction.
How do you choose not to follow a natural law? Can you choose to have gravity not work? Can you choose to stop obeying conservation of energy?
Judicial laws are instructive; Natural laws are descriptive.
:-|
So....are we just re-defining the word "god"?
Because that annoys me.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Poison Tree"Quote from: "Eve"How do you choose not to follow a natural law? Can you choose to have gravity not work? Can you choose to stop obeying conservation of energy?
I don't. THAT IS WHY when Gods finished to organized/created this world they said: "IT IS GOOD". It means that EVERYTHING OBEYS natural laws PERFECTLY. NOTHING and NOBODY can break them. Your physical body is PERFECT in OBEING/FOLLOWING instructions/natural laws.
Quote from: "Poison Tree"Judicial laws are instructive; Natural laws are descriptive.
All laws are instructive. Physical matter obeys/follows them perfectly. Intelligence has FREEDOM to choose: to obey judicial laws. It is not Your physical body is judged when You lie or steal. It is Your intelligence/PERSON is judged.
And do you have the "FREEDOM" to choose to obey natural laws? If so, then it follows that you can choose to NOT obey them: that is implicit in the word "choose". If you cannot choose not to obey natural laws, why not? What makes naturals different from judicial laws in that respect?
Quote from: "Eve"Dog will obey natural laws. Dog may not obey my law/command. Dog has FREEDOM/ NATURAL right to disobey me.
But does it have the "FREEDOM/ NATURAL right" to disobey natural laws? If not, why not.
Eve said "about proof:
you have two choices: 1) You may believe it and accept it; 2)You may not believe it and reject it[/quote]"Nope thats not proof. Just because YOU assume everything is organized and also assumed that something organized it, doesn't for even an instant constitute proof.
Proof is validation and confirmation.
For example: If I assumed someone committed a crime, I'd need concrete evidence to prove it. I just can't assume that someone is guilty. DNA, eye witness(more than one), finger prints, all couple with means motive and oppertunity. That is proof. You've completely failed to provide ANY proof whatsoever. So in the case of YOUR assumptions I have but one choice and that is to completely reject it.
Lets take another example. You walk into a room. You see on the floor six red blocks laying there. They are in 3 rows of 2 about equal distance from each other. You can ASSUME that someone placed them there, but you don't know for sure. Just as easily someone could have just thrown them there and they landed in just such a fashion. But using your conjecture you want everyone to accept that they were carefully placed there and you won't accept that there could be any other reason for them lying in such (what you call) order. Now science has proven that randomness is the norm for all things and it is rare, extrodinarily rare for direct organization in nature. Physics has proven that things pop into existance from nothing all the time. In fact it is the norm for things to pop into existance from nothing. Most things that do happen at such a small molecular level and for such a brief moment that they remain virtually undetected. At the atomic level things pop into existance at such a frequent rate that it is hard to tell what is in existance and what is not. It happens at a billionth of a split second.
You have no proof of a god, never will have proof of a god, and have no proof that a god ever existed. You don't have tangable proof that jesus ever existed. You don't have any proof that anything was ever organized least of all by a god.
So for the umteenth time you fascist nazi cunt bitch, fuck off!
Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"So....are we just re-defining the word "god"?
Because that annoys me.
Fuck it, why not? God now means "toast." I had semi-burned God today with a side of butter and some sugar/cinnamon. He/She/It was delicious.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"So....are we just re-defining the word "god"?
Because that annoys me.
give definition. And where did You get it from?
Multiple dictionaries and the history of human understanding:
Quote"god"
noun ?gäd also ?g?d
God : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
: a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
You know,
that god.
Eve wrote:
QuoteGod is = intelligence. Intelligence create another intelligence. Those are FACTS: Human(intelligence) creates humans(intelligence). Animals(intelligence) create animals(intelligence). Rock is not intelligence. It can not create intelligence(human/animal). Those are FACTS that back me up.
Again you have proven you are being stupid. "god is intelligence" is not a fact, it is an opinion. Your blathering about intelligence creating intelligence simply by procreation is again rather stupid. Humans create artificial intelligence, this is a fact and a provable one. You can't even prove the existence of one god against the thousands of others let alone prove it is intelligent let alone it can create let alone it is omnipotent.
:-|
Prove there is a god.
I will wait.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"2 POISON TREE
Please, read my post one more time. I said Gods created this world the way that EVERYTHING obeys natural laws PERFECTLY. We have NO FREEDOM to disobey natural laws. This kind of freedom is not granted TO NO ONE. Even Gods can not disobey natural laws. When Gods said: "IT(world) IS GOOD" they meant that EVERYTHING OBEYS NATURAL LAWS. Obey laws is GOOD. Disobey laws is BAD/EVIL.
The difference between natural law and judicial law. We have freedom to obey judicial law. We have freedom to govern ourselves. This kind of freedom is granted to ALL PEOPLE.
Now you're just justifying like a criminal ammending his alibi. You can't just make up definitions of things.
I've just had a thought. Maybe you think that your random ramblings will somehow "organize" themselves. Hold your breath and wait for that to happen. To date you haven't made any sense, have been completely inaccurate and illogical. You've lied a number of times and are lying now. Hell, you're lying about being a Russian/Ukranian.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"What is Supernatural anyway?
(//http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t651/smartzie/supernaturalhigh_zps4cd597fe.gif) (//http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/smartzie/media/supernaturalhigh_zps4cd597fe.gif.html)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"Prove there is a god.
I will wait.
OK. wait
:-D
Proof: could You please look in the mirror? You will see a god(ess)
Jesus/God said: "You are god"
Psalm 82:
6 I said ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 BUT ye all shall die LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes
Go look in a mirror. I said that you are a banana. You are a banana.
MostHolyBookOfSmartzie Chapter 6 Verse 9-10:
For though art soft and smooshie and delicious; just like the banana,
Eat yourself with peanut butter or upon flakes that are frosted.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "Eve"2 POISON TREE
Please, read my post one more time. I said Gods created this world the way that EVERYTHING obeys natural laws PERFECTLY. We have NO FREEDOM to disobey natural laws. This kind of freedom is not granted TO NO ONE. Even Gods can not disobey natural laws. When Gods said: "IT(world) IS GOOD" they meant that EVERYTHING OBEYS NATURAL LAWS. Obey laws is GOOD. Disobey laws is BAD/EVIL.
The difference between natural law and judicial law. We have freedom to obey judicial law. We have freedom to govern ourselves. This kind of freedom is granted to ALL PEOPLE.
Now you're just justifying like a criminal ammending his alibi. You can't just make up definitions of things.
I've just had a thought. Maybe you think that your random ramblings will somehow "organize" themselves. Hold your breath and wait for that to happen. To date you haven't made any sense, have been completely inaccurate and illogical. You've lied a number of times and are lying now. Hell, you're lying about being a Russian/Ukranian.
Prove that I lied. Prove that your statement is true. :-D
Prove that you are not lying.
We could do this shit all day.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"You forgot one thing. To answer my question: What us SUPERNATURAL? :rollin:
It's the best goddamn show I've ever seen. Serioulsy, have you not seen it?
Here's it's amazing. Educate yourself.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460681/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460681/)
:-|
a serious case of the stupid thinking it's clever. You guys have fun, I have toenails to clip and other more important crap to do.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"Prove that you are not lying.
We could do this shit all day.
Look in the mirror and You will see god. What is SUPERNATURAL? :rollin:
I have right to remain silence when accused of lying.
But I am very kind to You. What will prove to You that I was born in Ukraine?
Look, I don't really
care about most of the crap you're posting. I'm just trying to show you how silly it is. That in itself is probably a futile task, but I've had a long week and I'm letting off some steam on your ass. I figured, in the interest of fairness, I should let you know that.
You obviously have no proof of god. No theist who comes here ever does. They have opinions and bible verses. They use persuasive arguments like they were proof....you have nothing.
And we don't care. We just get bored and that's why we respond to you.
Just so you know.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"Prove there is a god.
I will wait.
OK. wait
:-D
Proof: could You please look in the mirror? You will see a god(ess)
Jesus/God said: "You are god"
Psalm 82:
6 I said ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 BUT ye all shall die LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes
That isn't proof of anything.
1) the bible is a book of hearsay.
2) you can't even prove there was a jesus let alone that he sadi ANYTHING.
3) Saying someone said something means, oh I don't know....NOTHING YOU FUCKING IDIOT!
:-|
Quote from: "mykcob4"FUCKING IDIOT!
Oh! Nice to meet you. :-D
:-|
su·per·nat·u·ral adjective ?sü-p?r-?na-ch?-r?l, -?nach-r?l : unable to be explained by science or the laws of nature : of, relating to, or seeming to come from magic, a god, etc.
CloseStyle: MLA APA ChicagoFull Definition of SUPERNATURAL
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b : attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"And we don't care. We just get bored and that's why we respond to you.
Just so you know.
When I am bored I respond to You. We help each other. That's what good people do to each other :-D
Only one problem, you aren't "good" people!
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Smartmarzipan"And we don't care. We just get bored and that's why we respond to you.
Just so you know.
When I am bored I respond to You. We help each other. That's what good people do to each other :-D
It's what bored people do. Good has nothing to do with it.
But sure. We're both bored and circlejerking each other.
"God is real" "God is made-up" "God is some mystical mumbo-jumbo" "Now you're just making shit up..."
Yadda yadda.
Quote from: "Eve"2 POISON TREE
Please, read my post one more time. I said Gods created this world the way that EVERYTHING obeys natural laws PERFECTLY. We have NO FREEDOM to disobey natural laws. This kind of freedom is not granted TO NO ONE. Even Gods can not disobey natural laws. When Gods said: "IT(world) IS GOOD" they meant that EVERYTHING OBEYS NATURAL LAWS. Obey laws is GOOD. Disobey laws is BAD/EVIL.
The difference between natural law and judicial law. We have freedom to obey judicial law. We have freedom to govern ourselves. This kind of freedom is granted to ALL PEOPLE.
You also said
Quote from: "Eve"I would say that law is more an instruction than just description. We can call natural law and judicial law " an instruction". And always there are consequence when we follow instruction or do not follow. Follow instruction/obey the law and result - progression. If not result - destruction/self-destruction.
How is a natural law instructive? How can there be consequences for not following laws it is impossible not to follow?
You've also said that organized matter follows laws but unorganized matter does not; "EVERYTHING OBEYS NATURAL LAWS" how can their be unorganized matter which (according to you) cannot be following laws?
I already let is slide when you said
Quote from: "Eve"But God created my intelligence personally.
after saying
Quote from: "Eve"Gods don't have to be involve in every process any more. Gods don't need to create children for humans. Gods create a couple and give them ability to create their own children
"God create[ing your] intelligence personally" sure sounds like god needing to be "involve[ed]" in "create[ing] children for humans"
Perhaps a little less jumbled, contradictory word salad wouldn't lead to you speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Even Gods can not disobey natural laws.
Gotta call bullshit here. Your own personal book of voodoo claims that Jesus walked on water, changed water to wine, fed multitudes from a small meal and healed the sick through divine intervention among other "miracles," each a violation of natural laws. So, your claim that gods cannot break natural laws is debunked by your claim that the god of the buy-bull is the "One True God" (copyright circa 33CE, all rights reserved.)
It can be fun when we get a theist in here that can put up a fight. You got TKO'd on the first punch.
Go find some actual evidence that can be tested and verified to back up your assertion that there is a god and we'll give your claim a little more credence.
Or, for the hard at thinking:
Evidence or STFU.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "Eve"2 POISON TREE
Please, read my post one more time. I said Gods created this world the way that EVERYTHING obeys natural laws PERFECTLY. We have NO FREEDOM to disobey natural laws. This kind of freedom is not granted TO NO ONE. Even Gods can not disobey natural laws. When Gods said: "IT(world) IS GOOD" they meant that EVERYTHING OBEYS NATURAL LAWS. Obey laws is GOOD. Disobey laws is BAD/EVIL.
The difference between natural law and judicial law. We have freedom to obey judicial law. We have freedom to govern ourselves. This kind of freedom is granted to ALL PEOPLE.
Now you're just justifying like a criminal ammending his alibi. You can't just make up definitions of things.
I've just had a thought. Maybe you think that your random ramblings will somehow "organize" themselves. Hold your breath and wait for that to happen. To date you haven't made any sense, have been completely inaccurate and illogical. You've lied a number of times and are lying now. Hell, you're lying about being a Russian/Ukranian.
Prove that I lied. Prove that your statement is true. :-D
Quote from: "Eve"Homosexuality contradicts one of the important laws of God of our world and law of the Universe/Nature: multiply and replenish.
Apparently according to you, homosexuals are more powerful than your gods because homosexuals can break one of your unbreakable natural laws, and your God can't.
:-s
Is there a reason why i am being ignored, while the rest are talking science and philosophy and bullshit!
Eve tell me what you believe in. i want your definition of your beliefs.
So i can learn and talk.
:popcorn:
Hello Eve.
Looks like you're making friends :)
She's talking pretty much straight-up Mormon theology. Planet Kolob and all that. All the good male Mormons get their own planet to be god of after they die and the women get to have the babies to populate it.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"FUCKING IDIOT!
Oh! Nice to meet you. :-D
Hey how often do crap do you crap and fart ?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "aitm"a serious case of the stupid thinking it's clever. You guys have fun, I have toenails to clip and other more important crap to do.
see yah later!! :-D
Seriously why do you want to be a chew toy in this site ?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "aitm"a serious case of the stupid thinking it's clever. You guys have fun, I have toenails to clip and other more important crap to do.
see yah later!! :-D
Seriously why do you want to be a chew toy in this site ?
:-|
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QuoteNatural law instructs planets what to do in order to stay on orbit.
How can you instruct something that you claim has no intelligence? :roll:
:-|
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Look, Eve, you started with pages of matter not having intelligence. Now you are saying it does and can listen to instructions. You say it is not possible to break natural laws "unless it is allowed for some purpose", but that some things didn't obey natural laws and needed to be destroyed by god.
You have no problem contradicting yourself because you are not interested in formulating a solid argument; your arguments are sound, just sound. It is obvious you are just throwing up bull-shit and seeing what sticks.
What is your goal here? So far all you have done is try our patience, which is wearing thin. If you have a different goal, then you better change tact.
:-|
(//http://idontbreak.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/dogtags.jpg)
How much unintelligent Rock does it take to become an intelligent earth?
PS unintelligent rock does follow natural laws; have you never watched gravity work on a pebble?
:-|
Since Eve hasn't been banned yet, I take it this is our new Old Seer?
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Only intelligence can give intelligence to something unintelligent.
Why? How do you know this? What examples do you have of this occurring?
Quote from: "Eve"P.S.unintelligent rock doesn't follow anything. It can be only FORCED, by gravity for example. It will not move if somebody/something doesn't move it.
The rock falls because the earth's gravity exerts a force on in, just like the moon orbits the earth because earth's gravity exerts a force on it, just like the earth orbits the sun because the sun's gravity exerts a force on it. No intelligence; a force which we call gravity and can describe.
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Quote from: "Eve"Because something unintelligent can not act. It can only be acted upon.
The sun acts all the time, is it intelligent?
Quote from: "Eve"Once you die(your intelligence is gone) your body(unintelligent) can not bring it(intelligence) back. Only intelligence can CREATE another intelligence. Unitelligence creates NOTHING.
The sun creates life through photosynthesis, so you must think the sun is intelligent.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"I don't reject this opinion.
Cool, this means radioactive waste (radioactive elements), enzymes and a large number of other things also count as intelligent.
Quotedead(unintelligent) human body will not move if somebody/something doesn't move it. Something dead doesn't follow anything.
I though Christ moved after He was dead? Give us a break we all know Zombies move. And you're brain dead and follow Jesus. :P :lol: Solitary
Ah, a thread where common definitions are thrown out the window.
Boob in torpedoes. (Translated: Carry on)
QuoteIf Earth didn't have intelligence it would not obey natural laws.
Rocks obey natural law, therefor they have intelligence. You have painted yourself in a corner by making bullshit up as you go.
x
ploxoj
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Solitary"Quotedead(unintelligent) human body will not move if somebody/something doesn't move it. Something dead doesn't follow anything.
I though Christ moved after He was dead?
What You thought was right. It was Christ's Spirit or INTELLIGENCE that moved dead body in tomb.
Only INTELLIGENCE can give LIFE. Unintelligence can do NOTHING on its own. Unitelligence can be only acted UPON.
When person dies his/her spirit or intelligence leaves physical body. Intelligence or Spirit of Christ can RESTORE what is destroyed by death. When person dies physical body do not become nothing. Gods KNOW how to restore or in other words to bring together all those elements from which our physical bodies are made.
Whaaaaaat!!!!!!? You don't even know your own religion. What a complete moron. Christ body didn't move under it's own power after he was crucified. The people moved it out of the tomb and buried it. His supposed spirit moved, a ghost. Fucking A, what a dumb cluck!
Talk about unintelligent that's you Eve, definately you!
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"I don't reject this opinion.
Cool, this means radioactive waste (radioactive elements), enzymes and a large number of other things also count as intelligent.
Not necesserly. (I hope I spelled word "necesserly correctly) Let's take You. You have intelligence. But You have physical body also. Your physical body has no intelligence but it MOVES and it DOES MANY things. Why does your physical body do all those things? A: it is because there is intelligence or spirit in your physical body and make your body do MANY things. But not all. Cells in your body can have intelligence. I believe they do have intelligence. They act. They follow natural laws. They can also be acted upon. As I said intelligence can act and be acted upon.
If Sun has intelligence like You do it acts and follows laws. But it can be acted upon and the same with You.
Your intelligence makes your physical brain work. Your brain is not intelligence. Your brain is piece of flesh and blood. Without Your intelligence it is DEAD.
You have that backwards. When the brain is destroyed, so is the intelligence. As long as the brain operates, there is thought/intelligence. You're saying that the car engine is doesn't spin the wheels, but the spinning wheels operate the engine.
1
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"QuoteIf Earth didn't have intelligence it would not obey natural laws.
Rocks obey natural law, therefor they have intelligence. You have painted yourself in a corner by making bullshit up as you go.
How does rocks FOLLOW natural law? Explain please.
You say Earth obeys natural laws. Rocks obey the same natural laws as the Earth. Thus, rocks follow natural laws according to you, and must thus have intelligence, like the Earth apparently has.
Try to keep up with your own story.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"I don't reject this opinion.
Cool, this means radioactive waste (radioactive elements), enzymes and a large number of other things also count as intelligent.
Not necesserly. (I hope I spelled word "necesserly correctly) Let's take You. You have intelligence. But You have physical body also. Your physical body has no intelligence but it MOVES and it DOES MANY things. Why does your physical body do all those things? A: it is because there is intelligence or spirit in your physical body and make your body do MANY things. But not all. Cells in your body can have intelligence. I believe they do have intelligence. They act. They follow natural laws. They can also be acted upon. As I said intelligence can act and be acted upon.
If Sun has intelligence like You do it acts and follows laws. But it can be acted upon and the same with You.
Your intelligence makes your physical brain work. Your brain is not intelligence. Your brain is piece of flesh and blood. Without Your intelligence it is DEAD.
You said my examples aren't necessary intelligent, then proceed to define them in their entirety. Radioactive waste contains isotopes that degrade over time, resealing different types of radiation. This radiation can act on people, potentially killing them. It can also be acted on, nuclear fission for example. By not accepting nuclear waste as intelligent immediately, you're showing doubts in your own beliefs.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Whaaaaaat!!!!!!? You don't even know your own religion. What a complete moron. Christ body didn't move under it's own power after he was crucified. The people moved it out of the tomb and buried it. His supposed spirit moved, a ghost. Fucking A, what a dumb cluck!
Talk about unintelligent that's you Eve, definately you!
I just said that. His Spirit(INTELLIGENCE) moved His dead body. Pay attention, my Friend. Anger blinds you. I feel compassion for you. really.
1) You can't prove a spirit and therefore by your own definition can't prove intelligence.
2) Things (inannimate) act all the time by force, chemical reaction, temperature and other NONLIVE entities. No intelligence there but still action.
3) The spirit didn't move the body in the bible, the people moved the dead body moron. Go back to sunday school.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "kilodelta"You have that backwards. When the brain is destroyed, so is the intelligence. As long as the brain operates, there is thought/intelligence. You're saying that the car engine is doesn't spin the wheels, but the spinning wheels operate the engine.
So you say that intelligence is product of PHYSICAL brain. Do I understand You correctly?
Yes. Physical/chemical changes to the brain organ affect intelligence. If it were as you suggest, the physical condition of the brain would not matter.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"1) You can't prove a spirit and therefore by your own definition can't prove intelligence.
I can prove spirit(intelligence) easily. I am communicating with you. You are communicating with me. Our communication is evidence that you and I have spirit or intelligence.
Only if you assume that it takes spirit to communicate. I say it only takes certain neurons firing in the brain and being received by (in this instance) fingers--prove me wrong.
[quote="
Quote from: "Eve"It is because I am not a scientist and I don't know how all this works.
There is a revelation from God of this world that people, animals, plants, insects, this Earth have intelligence. He didn't say anything about Sun or isotopes. That is why I have only 2 guesses:
1) all your examples have intelligence and can act and be acted upon
2)all your examples don't have intelligence and they can be acted upon
Is it possible he didn't mention isotopes because the humans writing his words down didn't know about them? An almighty god would never have missed listing the all important isotopes as intelligent.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"1) You can't prove a spirit and therefore by your own definition can't prove intelligence.
I can prove spirit(intelligence) easily. I am communicating with you. You are communicating with me. Our communication is evidence that you and I have spirit or intelligence.
Quote from: "mykcob4"2) Things (inannimate) act all the time by force, chemical reaction, temperature and other NONLIVE entities. No intelligence there but still action.
Did you check it somehow? You can not tell me that there is no intelligence there because you don't know what intelligence(spirit) is. You don't know from what kind of elements intelligence is organized. I don't say that EVERYTHING has intelligence. Earth has intelligence. It PRODUCES life.
Quote from: "mykcob4"3) The spirit didn't move the body in the bible, the people moved the dead body moron. Go back to sunday school.
Of course people placed dead body of Jesus in the tomb. But Jesus's Spirit(INTELLIGENCE) brought it back to life. It calls Resurrection.
1) NO no no no!!!!! I said prove a spirit. All communication between us proves is....wait for it...THAT WE ARE COMMUNICATING!!!! That isn't proof of a spirit.
2) I linked the "HOW Stuff Works" site so you can understand that things don't need intelligence to move or have action.http://science.howstuffworks.com/enviro ... nature.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/fundamental-forces-of-nature.htm)
3) Jesus didn't come back to life that is pure folklore and the story existed long before anyone made up the jesus story.http://www.paganprincesses.com/pagan-st ... urrection/ (http://www.paganprincesses.com/pagan-stories-of-resurrection/)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "kilodelta"Quote from: "Eve"So you say that intelligence is product of PHYSICAL brain. Do I understand You correctly?
Yes. Physical/chemical changes to the brain organ affect intelligence. If it were as you suggest, the physical condition of the brain would not matter.
Ok. So, I understand You correctly. Intelligence is a product of PHYSICAL matter - physical brain. You also say that brain organ affects intelligence. Now I would like to ask You to DESCRIBE this PRODUCT. Tell me please what it is made(ORGANIZED) from? And when brain dies what happens to intelligence(PRODUCT)? I mean what happens to those elements from which intelligence(product of brain) is organized?
Microbes don't have brain but they act intelligently. Where is it coming from?
You have done nothing to prove your claims. Try to support them a little bit. Look up the term "argument from ignorance."
The "product" is a biochemical/electrical processing of information and knowledge. This is just as an engine spins the wheels of a car, though a bit more complicated. The same thing that happens to a computer when it's shut off when the brain dies. There's no more processing. But a brain, unlike a computer, can't be switched back on (maybe in the future they'll be able to do this...). Quite simply, the engine (brain) no longer spins the wheels (thinks). The brain is made up of a bunch of DNA-organized matter.
Microbes do have responses, but not processing power that one would attribute to intelligence. If the microbe has chloroplasts, it has biological mechanisms that convert the sun light into chemically stored energy. All without thought. There is some evidence that eubacteria send signals between microbes and that this is a form of cognition. But, if one were to look at multi-cellular organisms, they too send signals in order to cooperate. e.g. a cell sensing an infection using automated biochemical processes, and communicating that information to another group of cells to start production of antigens. If we were to go back to the car analogy, the microbes are rocks that roll down hills when the environment is right, while the human brain is an engine that moves the car through the environment without the same limiting mobility of the rock.
Honestly, everything I have said is not above high school-level biology. Have you taken a biology course?
Quote from: "kilodelta"There is some evidence that eubacteria send signals between microbes and that this is a form of cognition. But, if one were to look at multi-cellular organisms, they too send signals in order to cooperate. e.g. a cell sensing an infection using automated biochemical processes, and communicating that information to another group of cells to start production of antigens.
This has been proven and you're right, it is an automated biochemical process without cognizant thought. Pathogenic bacteria will release a specific organic molecule at a defined rate, when the concentration reaches a certain point, the bacterium will become active. Strength in numbers.
Here's a boring educational video on the topic:
[youtube:zmrjwf74]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWKWYQfSi0[/youtube:zmrjwf74]
The quorum has spoken. So say we all.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Is it possible he didn't mention isotopes because the humans writing his words down didn't know about them?
This is exactly on of the reasons. God of this world said that He gives new knowledge(info) line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. People have to be ready for new info. Child has to be ready for more knowledge. God will not give us something for which we are not ready yet. And in order to have more knowledge we have to do something with the knowledge we already have.
One more reason. God's purpose to explain Who CAUSED all that we see. But how all this works we are capable to do without Him. That is why intelligence is given to us.
He didn't give us antibiotics until after the bubonic plague, smallpox, cholera, influenza and typhus because he wanted to watch us die? He thought we were ready to have the knowledge of nuclear technology so we could use it to bomb eachother? Your god certainly loves human death. Are you sure you're not worshiping Satan?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Is it possible he didn't mention isotopes because the humans writing his words down didn't know about them?
This is exactly on of the reasons. God of this world said that He gives new knowledge(info) line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. People have to be ready for new info. Child has to be ready for more knowledge. God will not give us something for which we are not ready yet. And in order to have more knowledge we have to do something with the knowledge we already have.
One more reason. God's purpose to explain Who CAUSED all that we see. But how all this works we are capable to do without Him. That is why intelligence is given to us.
What's the evidence for this god ? :wink:
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jckuyeriujhgjitr
Quote from: "Eve"1)why it(bacteria or star) acts/designed INTELLIGENTLY?
It doesn't. Bacteria act as if they have been
biologically adapted. The natural world, regarded as a "design" the way an engineer would think of it, is a shockingly
poor one.
Quote from: "Eve"2)If intelligently then where is intelligence coming from?
Nowhere. There is no intelligence behind the actions or configuration of a bacterium.
Quote from: "Eve"3)isn't it always coming from the beings that have intelligence/spirit?
No. You are simply seeing a pattern and calling it an intelligence. It simply isn't there.
Quote from: "Eve"P.S.I know who programs computers. A: intelligences or spirits in physical bodies. Who programs their physical bodies that act intelligently?
Life forms aren't computers, so your question is empty. I thought this would be obvious.
xqsfhtdwwghhtfvge
Quote from: "Eve"intelligent physical world is the evidence. God = intelligence. You are = intelligence. Only intelligence/spirit/god/mortal man can be a source of intelligent program.
There is no evidence that something that doesn't have intelligence can act intelligently or create something intelligent.
There is no proof that bacterias have no intelligence.
And there is no proof that intelligence is a product of physical brain. Only philosophers BELIEVE in this.
Your logic is very scary, using the information you've given me and based on my last post:
God = intelligence
God = cause of human death
You are = intelligent
Therefore:
You are = God
and
You are = cause of human death
Scary stuff Eve, your world is a morbid place. I'm now 99.9999999% sure when you say you're worshiping God you mean you're worshiping Satan.
Quote from: "Eve"But He gave us BRAINS and TALANTS. When we discover how to fight this evil we GROW, we PROGRESS on our own.
But you said
Quote from: "Eve"Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. People have to be ready for new info
How are we finding new information when he's giving it to us? It can be either or, not both.
Quote from: Icarusewqyr
Littl
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"God = cause of human death
Not always.
Physical death is caused by many things.
Spiritual death is A CHOICE.
But you said god is responsible for giving us information, if he had informed us of antibiotics a few hundred years earlier he could have saved over 100 million lives. He chose not to ergo is responsible for those deaths.
If I'm watching a child play with a loaded gun and the child shoots themselves in the face it's my responsibility for giving the child a gun and not teaching them gun safety. God is me in that case, the gun is microorganisms and humans are the child. This analogy is exactly the same as the ones you've been giving me so you concede to my point because in your mind analogy = evidence, so we move on.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Therefore:
You are = God
No. I am = god, not God. I never said that I am God. But God said that I am god. And You are. He said that we are His children and gods(INTELLIGENCES)
I'm using 'you are' the same way you were using it (ie. you are = any and all humans). By this definition you are now stating that all matter is gods children, all matter can act and be acted on and is therefore intelligent and is therefore gods children. This makes the word 'intelligent' rather meaningless because you've now defined matter = intelligence so it's pointless to have two words for the same thing. Stop killing the English language.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"and
You are = cause of human death
ONLY If I kill someone. But there is no connection between this and God = intelligence.
Given my points above, you'll now have to revisit this conclusion.
Quote from: "Eve"It can be both ways. Simple example.
Parent gives knowledge to a little child when he knows that child has NO CAPACITY or WAY to know on his/her. Little child can not learn on its own that Sun is a star. But little child can learn on his/her own that sun is bright.
Little child can not know on his own that candy has sugar and a lot of sugar is bad for the body but little child can learn on his/her own that candy is sweet and desirable. :-D
I'm glad you've accepted my analogy that god is responsible for 100's of millions of deaths. Now, why do you pray to such a violent and angry god?
Oh my word! What a bunch of nonsense. Eve said she didn't come here to prove her claims....SOUND FAMILIAR?
Every religious nut does the same thing.
1) They make an outrageous claim.
2) They get called out on that claim and are requested to prove it.
3) They attempt to prove the claim with utter rubbish and illogical gibberish. Things like "you're alive that is proof of god." Crap like that. Which is no proof at all.
4) When their weak noexistant proof is easily shot down, THEN they claim that they will not to prve anything. But they are mistaken. They PROVE that they are idiots.
The other things that the Eve's of the world do on this forum and almost all the others is that they insult people. Their speech is condescending with a method of expecting everyone else to not only respect their myth, but to obey and show reverence to their myth. They get upset if you don't do so. Their logic is so fucked up that in a single sentence they will trample all over someone's individual civil rights and get upset when you tell them they can't do that. They claim that you are violating their civil rights for not allowing them to deny people their civil rights. In otherwords they think it is their civil right to be prejudice against gays and others and deny gays and others their individual civil rights. Their justification is ofcourse twofold the obligatory "majority rule" bullshit, and its "god's law" as if that holds any water.
I say ban this bitch and everyone that makes an outrageous claim and refuses or is unable to prove their claim.
Quote from: "Eve"First of all I didn't come to prove my claims. I only share ideas and I want to see arguments against them. Is there anything wrong with this?
Of course there is. It causes you make up new definitions as you go along to suit whatever need arises with no regard to evidence or logic or fact or even your previous use of the words. It causes you simply throw out bull-shit with no regard to seeing what is actually true. It causes you to shift the burden of proof--how about you let us see arguments FOR your claims. It causes you to simply assert and assume. It has caused you to appear to be a mindless troll, not someone engaged in a honest search for the truth.
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[quote="?
Quote from: "Eve"1)intelligence=spirit. you have intelligence/spirit and I don't have to prove it. you know that you have intelligence/spirit
Calling intelligence 'spirit' does not give it magical powers.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "kilodelta"You have done nothing to prove your claims.
Try to support them a little bit. Look up the term "argument from ignorance."
First of all I didn't come to prove my claims. I only share ideas and I want to see arguments against them. Is there anything wrong with this?
Yes. This forum has an expectation of supporting claims. We expect it from the oldest members to the newest. If you don't like it, perhaps there is another forum that would be a better fit for you.
[quote="
[quote="Hakurei
Quote from: "Eve"I don't make claims and I don't know this forum's expectations. was it in the agreement of this forum that I signed?
I make arguments.
You have made many, many claims (statements). I'd just like to see an example of intelligence bacteria.
This forum (comprised of forum members) does expect someone to provide evidence when they state something. Read back a few pages on this thread and you'll see that I'm right.
Example: If I made a post where I said "NASA found a new planet in our solar system that can support human life." Forum members would read it and check for collaborating evidence. When they wouldn't find any, they'd ask me for supporting evidence. If I refused to provide supporting evidence and still made the claim about the new planet, they'd call it bullshit.
Quote from: "Eve"I don't make claims and I don't know this forum's expectations. was it in the agreement of this forum that I signed?
I make arguments.
I made some arguments (using your logic), but you didn't seem to like them.
Quote from: "Eve"First of all I didn't come to prove my claims.
Quote from: "Eve"I don't make claims
#-o
Quote from: "Poison Tree"Quote from: "Eve"First of all I didn't come to prove my claims.
Quote from: "Eve"I don't make claims
#-o
It's a troll. What did you honestly expect?
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"It's a troll. What did you honestly expect?
I like my trolls non-contradictory and medium-well with a side of fries.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Oh my word! What a bunch of nonsense. Eve said she didn't come here to prove her claims....SOUND FAMILIAR?
Every religious nut does the same thing.
1) They make an outrageous claim.
2) They get called out on that claim and are requested to prove it.
3) They attempt to prove the claim with utter rubbish and illogical gibberish. Things like "you're alive that is proof of god." Crap like that. Which is no proof at all.
4) When their weak noexistant proof is easily shot down, THEN they claim that they will not to prve anything. But they are mistaken. They PROVE that they are idiots.
The other things that the Eve's of the world do on this forum and almost all the others is that they insult people. Their speech is condescending with a method of expecting everyone else to not only respect their myth, but to obey and show reverence to their myth. They get upset if you don't do so. Their logic is so fucked up that in a single sentence they will trample all over someone's individual civil rights and get upset when you tell them they can't do that. They claim that you are violating their civil rights for not allowing them to deny people their civil rights. In otherwords they think it is their civil right to be prejudice against gays and others and deny gays and others their individual civil rights. Their justification is ofcourse twofold the obligatory "majority rule" bullshit, and its "god's law" as if that holds any water.
I say ban this bitch and everyone that makes an outrageous claim and refuses or is unable to prove their claim.
Dude you should take it easy. You do realize getting furious of her bullshit is what she wants? I never take trolls posts seriously. :-D
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"1) NO no no no!!!!! I said prove a spirit. All communication between us proves is....wait for it...THAT WE ARE COMMUNICATING!!!! That isn't proof of a spirit.
2) I linked the "HOW Stuff Works" site so you can understand that things don't need intelligence to move or have action.http://science.howstuffworks.com/enviro ... nature.htm (http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/fundamental-forces-of-nature.htm)
3) Jesus didn't come back to life that is pure folklore and the story existed long before anyone made up the jesus story.http://www.paganprincesses.com/pagan-st ... urrection/ (http://www.paganprincesses.com/pagan-stories-of-resurrection/)
thanks for being nice :) that is why I will respond to this post
1)intelligence=spirit. you have intelligence/spirit and I don't have to prove it. you know that you have intelligence/spirit
2)thanks
3)i respect your disbelief :)
Nope you'll HAVE to prove that. Intelligence doesn't equal spirit. That is a HUGE unfounded ASSUMPTION on YOUR part.
And thats the problem. People on this thread have proven YOUR assumption to be false and you keep trying to move the goal post. You're wrong and you know it. Everyone knows it. But in your mind you can't be wrong because it means that you'd actually have to come to grips with reality and deny the brainwashing that you've accepted.
It comes down to this:
There are facts and there is a huge unfounded assumption.
You deny facts and accept the illogical unfounded assumption.
You want to change the facts to fit your assumption, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
People have asked you to PROVE your assumption. When you make the attempt it just isn't right. It's filled with holes, speculation and a lack of a direct connection.
It's like an equation;
4+?= 9. When we ask you what ? is, you come up with 4 everytime., Why because someone or someones have brainwashed you by indoctrination. In fact your answer for every equation will be 4 no matter what the equation is.
You don't even understand that you've been brainwashed, socially, culturally, and politically. You've been conditioned. It controls your mind and behavior.
You have a war on anything that your brainwashed culture has decided is not in agreement with your brainwashed ideology.
Thats why you deny journalism, calling it the "Liberal media", and accept propaganda, FOX the conservative propaganda machine.
The fact is that the media is dominated by conservative corporations. The reason that your brainwashed political culture has waged a smear campaign angainst the mainstream media, is that when following ethical journalist practices conservatives are exposed as frauds and liars. The conservative culture doesn't want to accept facts like global warming or that Obama is a christian and a natural born American, so they attack the messenger....the mainstream media.
You don't want to prove your god because you can't. It is impossible, mainly because there is no god, but basically there are no facts to support it.
You think that you are smart, even clever, but in reality you just parrot what others have told you. You are basically a mere functionary of the brainwashed culture.
I watch FOX sometimes, not because I believe what they say and never for valid information, but I com[are it with REAL journalism sources. I want to know how and what you and others like you are being brainwashed on and about.
No sensible person would ever accept their propaganda. It is so outrageous and obvious that a normal educated person would immediately and automatically reject it. But you and your culture isn't in any way shape or form normal. You're so biased, so incredibly brainwashed, so thoughoughly conditioned, that you can't accept the truth at all.
There are still some "birthers" out there. There are those of you that actually say that "Obamacare is systematically designed to kill grandma." It's stupid and a lie, but you and your brainwashed culture buy in to it wholeheartedly.
It's the same with your belief.
Why do you think it's a sin to question your god? Because they don't want the truth to be revealed, that's why.
Science wants to be questioned, demands to be questioned. Science wants the truth, wants the facts.
[
Quote from: "Eve"TO ALL ATHEISTS
OK, let me agree with all of you that all my "claims" are wrong and stupid. And I am begging your forgiveness for that
MY NEW CLAIMS:
1)computer can not act intelligently unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently.
2)human physical body can not act intelligently unless there is intelligence in it.
3)car can not act intelligently(stop at red light, move at green light, turn right when it has to) unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently
Do I have to prove those claims? Or those are FACTS?
My assumption, not claims, based on FACTSabove that:
Earth can act intelligently unless:
1) it has its own intelligence
2) another intelligence forcers it act intelligently.
If anybody can refute/disprove my assumption I will accept it.
And a question: what is intelligence?
P.S.Those who do not have it(intelligence) don't have to answer. My question is only to those who has it. Please describe it to me.
intelligence
?n?t?l?d?(?)ns
noun
1.
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
"an eminent man of great intelligence"
Dictionary definition, it doesn't apply to anything you've said which is why it's impossible to take you seriously. You can't attempt to redefine the English language and expect people to agree with you.
[quote="
200 years ago people didn't have enough experience, they were not ready
Quote from: Icarusintelligence
?n?t?l?d?(
Q: why does physical matter(flesh and bones) need this ability to acquire knowledge? why physical matter (rock) doesn't need this ability?
Q: why does computer or car act intelligently?
Quote from: "Eve"That is very good point. But try to make one experiment. Come to a 12 year old child. Explain to him in all details how spaceship is build and operates. And ask him very soon to build one and fly to space and come back. See if he will be able to use all the info you just have gave him. See how long it will take for him to comprehend what you just explained to him.
Nice try, but comparing the complexity of space flight to eating something that enables you to survive are two very different things. We've been eating things for 2 billion years, I think we have it figured out by now.
Quote from: "Eve"Why did you make conclusion that all matter is God's children? Not everything that has intelligence is a child of God of this world. Only that intelligence is a CHILD OF GOD which is created in HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS. You are a CHILD OF GOD because you are created in His image and likeness. Chicken or Earth are not created in His image or likeness.
You said everything with intelligence is gods children, don't blame me when you're definition of intelligence includes everything in the universe. [-X
Quote from: "Eve"perfect. thanks for the answer.
Q: why does physical matter(flesh and bones) need this ability to acquire knowledge? why physical matter (rock) doesn't need this ability?
Q: why does computer or car act intelligently?
Did you read the definition? Rock isn't intelligent, nor is computer or car (according to the definition). Are you dyslexic?
Quote from: "Eve"TO ALL ATHEISTS
OK, let me agree with all of you that all my "claims" are wrong and stupid. And I am begging your forgiveness for that
MY NEW CLAIMS:
1)computer can not act intelligently unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently.
2)human physical body can not act intelligently unless there is intelligence in it.
3)car can not act intelligently(stop at red light, move at green light, turn right when it has to) unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently
Do I have to prove those claims? Or those are FACTS?
My assumption, not claims, based on FACTSabove that:
Earth can act intelligently unless:
1) it has its own intelligence
2) another intelligence forcers it act intelligently.
If anybody can refute/disprove my assumption I will accept it.
And a question: what is intelligence?
P.S.Those who do not have it(intelligence) don't have to answer. My question is only to those who has it. Please describe it to me.
What a condescending straw man arguement.
"the earth can act intelligently unless blah blah blah."
What you are trying to say is that earth acts intelligently because a being of intelligence..i.e.cognisant being acts on it.
The problem here is that it is incumbent on you to prove that there is an intelligent being through credible and varifiable means and said being is actually acting on the earth making it act intelligently. That is what I mean about you never making a connection.
You can't simply say "that the earth acts intelligently...therefore something with intelligence must be acting on it." You have to prove what that something is, not assume it. So you haven't proved your assumptions. And you haven't given anything for all of us to prove. The fact is that you do what every relgious person does and wants us to disprove that which was never proven in the first place. That doesn't make sense. And heres why.
I could say that there is an invisible purple cow on the other side of the sun. You could say "prove it." My respoinse if I use your stategy would be "prove it isn't there and that it doesn't exist." That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"perfect. thanks for the answer.
Q: why does physical matter(flesh and bones) need this ability to acquire knowledge? why physical matter (rock) doesn't need this ability?
Q: why does computer or car act intelligently?
Did you read the definition? Rock isn't intelligent, nor is computer or car (according to the definition). Are you dyslexic?
I think she's trying to insinuate that human beings have human operators. Or something...
Or she is really talking about Gene Wilder. Yup. I think that makes the most sense. She's providing a movie review.
(//http://beerandamovie.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/2007_7young-frankenstein.jpg)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"Quote from: "Eve"1)why it(bacteria or star) acts/designed INTELLIGENTLY?
It doesn't. Bacteria act as if they have been biologically adapted.
it's intelligent.
No. There is no intelligence implied by biological adaptation, no matter how strenuously you assert otherwise.
Quote from: "Eve"I disagree. design even poor one requires some thoughts.
And I never said it was an actual design. It is instead everything you expect out of biological adaptation.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"Nowhere. There is no intelligence behind the actions or configuration of a bacterium.
how do you know?
Because we have a mechanism, evolution, that explains the actions and configurations of a bacterium, without design or guiding intelligence.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"Quote from: "Eve"3)isn't it always coming from the beings that have intelligence/spirit?
No. You are simply seeing a pattern and calling it an intelligence. It simply isn't there.
how do you know?
Again, because we know how these processes work. No intelligence required, and even contraindicated.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Hakurei Reimu"Quote from: "Eve"P.S.I know who programs computers. A: intelligences or spirits in physical bodies. Who programs their physical bodies that act intelligently?
Life forms aren't computers, so your question is empty. I thought this would be obvious.
I know.
Then stop being evasive.
Quote from: "Eve"TO ALL ATHEISTS
OK, let me agree with all of you that all my "claims" are wrong and stupid. And I am begging your forgiveness for that
MY NEW CLAIMS:
1)computer can not act intelligently unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently.
I would claim that a computer doesn't even act intelligently even when guided intelligently.
Quote from: "Eve"2)human physical body can not act intelligently unless there is intelligence in it.
Okay.
Quote from: "Eve"3)car can not act intelligently(stop at red light, move at green light, turn right when it has to) unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently
Disputed:
(//http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/guardian/About/General/2012/9/27/1348749180389/The-Google-self-driving-c-010.jpg)
Quote from: "Eve"Do I have to prove those claims? Or those are FACTS?
I disagreed with two of them. :D/
Quote from: "Eve"My assumption, not claims, based on FACTSabove that:
Earth can act intelligently unless:
1) it has its own intelligence
2) another intelligence forcers it act intelligently.
Okay, but when has the Earth acted intelligently? Come to think of it, what does "acting intelligently" even
mean?Quote from: "Eve"If anybody can refute/disprove my assumption I will accept it.
And a question: what is intelligence?
P.S.Those who do not have it(intelligence) don't have to answer. My question is only to those who has it. Please describe it to me.
Wait, you're using a term that you don't even know the meaning of? Color me surprised.
Quote from: "Eve"TO ALL ATHEISTS
OK, let me agree with all of you that all my "claims" are wrong and stupid. And I am begging your forgiveness for that
MY NEW CLAIMS:
1)computer can not act intelligently unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently.
2)human physical body can not act intelligently unless there is intelligence in it.
3)car can not act intelligently(stop at red light, move at green light, turn right when it has to) unless intelligence forces it to act intelligently
Do I have to prove those claims? Or those are FACTS?
My assumption, not claims, based on FACTSabove that:
Earth can act intelligently unless:
1) it has its own intelligence
2) another intelligence forcers it act intelligently.
If anybody can refute/disprove my assumption I will accept it.
And a question: what is intelligence?
P.S.Those who do not have it(intelligence) don't have to answer. My question is only to those who has it. Please describe it to me.
I personally don't think you are stupid, just wrong. You are assuming it takes intelligence to make things work instead of them being built. You are also assuming it takes intelligence for something to change and grow. A fire can grow, reproduce itself, use energy, just like a living thing, the same is true of a plant. Do you think they have intelligence? The earth itself is changing slowly every day. That's why we have different continents and earthquakes. We have natural forces in the world that don't require a supreme being to makes change happen.
Your body is composed of billions and billions of cells that are living things that die every second and new ones take there place up to a certain amount of times because they are genetically programed to die. This is why we get old and wrinkled and die. Do you think the trillions of seeds from plants that are dormant before they get water are intelligent or need intelligence to grow? Nothing in the entire universe including energy can ever be created nor destroyed completely, but that doesn't mean it goes on as it did before it changed. Gravity get weaker the farther away another body is, and is weaker by a small body, does that mean it is intelligent?
You are confusing intelligence with physical forces, and thinking energy is not a particle (body). Sunlight is composed of trillions of particles of energy called photons. They are not like ghosts or supernatural. 8-) There are different kinds of intelligence, but knowledge doesn't make one intelligent unless one knows how to use it wisely. The Nazi's had great knowledge and were intelligent that way, but dumber than a rock like terrorists or anyone that destroys instead of creates. It takes knowledge to build a hydrogen bomb, but stupidity to use it to destroy, just like any weapon. Even the dumbest person can destroy, even a very small child----or a Supreme Being that has infinite knowledge and no intelligence that can destroy with a flood. :shock: :roll: Solitary
*Mod*- You're starting to preach, we don't allow that. One more time and you get to go back to the rest of the half-believers you came from-aitm
Quote from: IcarusDid you read the d
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Did you read the definition? Rock isn't intelligent, nor is computer or car (according to the definition). Are you dyslexic?
why does physical matter like flesh and bones(your physical body) need ability to acquire knowledge and skills?
Why are you assuming need has anything to do with it? I don't know what you're referring to when you say 'ability'.
[quote="
Quote from: IcarusWhy are you
[quote="Hakurei Reimu
Quote from: "Eve"God warns people who believe in Him and follow His teachings.
Or else...
QuoteBut those who do not believe to those He doesn't speak.
Which, come to think of it, is a pretty surefire way to not convince someone.
QuoteEven He would they wouldn't believe Him.
Heh, a creator who creates his own critics. The guy is much too hard on himself. He should take a vacation. Besides, everything's pretty much the same either way.
QuoteGod always preserves those who love Him and obey/follow His law.
And judging for what exactly is supposed to be followed and its innumerable permutations, interpretations, and outright contradictions, this pious host numbers exactly zero. Waaa Waaa Waaah.
QuoteBut when it comes time to go to spirit world their physical bodies die because of different reasons.
Heh. "time to go to spirit world". Such a lovely phrase. Almost makes it sound poetic. But it's like spraying air-fresher on a toilet. Who do you expect to be fooled?
QuoteBy the way God gave to His followers the law how to eat correctly.
...in lieu of germ theory.
QuoteThis law calls Word of Wisdom.
...with implied sarcasm.
QuoteMany scientists do not believe in Him and they wouldn't listen to Him.
Thank God we have people like you picking up the slack. Just think where we'd be without theism.
Quote from: Hakurei ReimuOkay, but when has the
[quote="
Quote from: "Eve"But you need FAITH if true God for one reason: to RETURN to Him. To return to place where you came from.
Wrong again. The Pope stated that atheists get into heaven too. So, faith is not required. It seems you've been wasting your time with religion and the supernatural.
Quote from: "Eve"If you don't believe in God and He will speak to you you will say:"it was hallucination"
Well, there was a few times...
THEY ARE INSIDE.
And the voice was real loud and slow and scratchy. Over and over again.
Never quite figured out what that meant. Huh.
QuoteParents force a little child to obey because child doesn't understand what is good for him.
Yep. Exactly comparison. And after all, a little cosmic parenting never hurt anyone (//http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people).
QuoteYou don't need me.
You do yourself a disservice! Why, what purpose would our merry forum serve if not as an opportunity for preaching? Surely, none of us have ever before considered your line of reasoning
(and its innumerable assumptions) and thus might benefit greatly from your wise counsel.
QuoteYou are my brother. You are a CHILD OF GOD.
Oh really? Always nice to meet new relatives. And from the immediately family no less. Strange that no one told me. How's aunt Sophia holding up?
QuoteBefore we came to this earth you and I were on the same side.
And now...? Are we enemies? Surely not! After all, we are family. You are just...a little confused right now. It happens sometimes. Sometimes, people get all wrapped up in their stories that they forget what's real and what's not. You'll work through it. Sooner or later.
QuoteOr to have happiness in this life. But you need FAITH if true God for one reason: to RETURN to Him. To return to place where you came from.
Heh. In a way, you are right. In a way, you are wrong. Which is which? Do you know? Can you know?
Quote from: Hydra009[quote
Quote from: kilodelta[quote
Quote from: "Eve"I think that is also a very good point. But there is a problem with this point. God warns people who believe in Him and follow His teachings. But those who do not believe to those He doesn't speak. Even He would they wouldn't believe Him.
God always preserves those who love Him and obey/follow His law. But when it comes time to go to spirit world their physical bodies die because of different reasons.
By the way God gave to His followers the law how to eat correctly. This law calls Word of Wisdom.
Many scientists do not believe in Him and they wouldn't listen to Him.
So god watched tens of millions of christians and catholics die from bubonic plague, smallpox, cholera, influenza and typhus, because they believed in the wrong god? Which god do you believe in?
Quote from: "Eve"In which post did I say this? I am CONFIDENT I never said this because I KNOW that only those who created IN IMAGE and LIKENESS of God are His children.
I said that everything that acts intelligently has intelligence or forced to act intelligently by intelligence.
Quote from: "Eve"He said that we are His children and gods(INTELLIGENCES)
The contradictions are stacking up. Intelligences = his children and gods, now they don't
Quote from: "Eve"I assuming this because I believe that:
if there is no need then what is the point(reason) to have it? I believe it MUST be a reason for everything.
For example, I know why I(intelligence/spirit) need this ability. I have REASON:
I can do many good and important things for me and others and because of that others and I will have happiness in life .
But why does piece of flesh and bones need ability to have knowledge and skills? and how can it have reasons in order to have this ability?
Or you BELIEVE that something is done or is acting for no reason? If yes, give me some examples, please.
So if you believe something, that makes it an innate universal truth. I believe I am your god, bow before me.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"Hello Eve.
Looks like you're making friends :)
I do? WOW! It makes me happy :-D
I always have good relationships with people. People like me because I like them first.
Do you like me? I like me.
Quote from: "Eve"I don't follow that. I follow what Spirit teaches me. Spirit is a Spoke Person for Heavenly Father. He also speaks by His Prophets. There is no contradictions in their teaching and in teaching of Spirit.
Have we had a definition for Spirit yet? You've capitalised it, suggesting a proper noun. But it doesn't sound like you're talking about the Mars rover.
Quote from: IcarusQuote from: EveI assuming this
P.S.
Quote from: Jason78Quote from: EveI don't follow that. I
Eve, how does a heart keep beating when it is no longer in a body? Does it have intelligence?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Eve"I don't follow that. I follow what Spirit teaches me. Spirit is a Spoke Person for Heavenly Father. He also speaks by His Prophets. There is no contradictions in their teaching and in teaching of Spirit.
Have we had a definition for Spirit yet? You've capitalised it, suggesting a proper noun. But it doesn't sound like you're talking about the Mars rover.
You ask, I will answer. I hope nobody will accuse me in preaching.
Spirit that teaches me is one of the Sons of God Heavenly Farther. He is intelligent being and He is one of Them(Gods). His mission for right now is to teach the truth, to testify about the truth, to comfort, to guide, to remind things that we forget but have to remember and to warn in case of danger.
So what exactly is Spirit? Another god?
Could you also indulge me a little further Eve and tell me what a god is?
QuoteBut design of your heart is very intelligent. Can you deny that?
Easily. We have a perfectly workable explanation for how the heart can come to be
without design. And we have numerous examples of the human body being really, really poorly designed. As in "god failing grade school if this were a project" poor. As in "I expect 12 year olds could avoid most of these pitfalls" poor. As in "the designers deserves our pity, not our praise" bad.
If anything, the human body clearly shows you that
if it were designed, the designer
wasn't a very intelligent one.
[quote="
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"So what exactly is Spirit? Another god?
Yes, He is also God. He is one of Them.
Quote from: "Jason78"Could you also indulge me a little further Eve and tell me what a god is?
I can tell you as long as you don't accuse me in preaching to you. :)
you can become one of Them. Right now you are just like one of Them.
God is an intelligent being that can act - make decisions, feel, think, speak, see, hear, do something.
So God is a real physical person just like you and me?
Quote from: PluQuoteBut
Again - original design(
[quote="
QuoteGood. Can you share it with me?
I can't be arsed. If you want to know, take some biology classes. You have not convinced me you want to actually learn anything, so I'm not going to waste my time.
QuoteBut perfect may become imperfect for a good reason
No it can't. By definition, if it can be spoiled, it isn't perfect. Something perfect cannot be spoiled (or even modified) in any way. This is why describing things as "perfect" makes no sense; it's a meaningless and unattainable standard that is only used by people who are... well... wrong.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"So God is a real physical person just like you and me?
Yes, He is or They are real persons with physical bodies. We are like them not They are like us. We are created in Their image and likeness. But there is one difference between us(gods) and Them(Gods). Their physical bodies are perfect now, ours not. And They are always righteous. It means They never break eternal laws and principles.
So, if your Gods are real physical beings.
Where are they?
So here we go again. Eve can't debate out of a paper bag so she uses the old trump card of "god said it" as if that lends ANY credibility to her arguements.
It doesn't. Eve you have failed to make an argument. You have failed to prove anything of what you've said. You are lost in an ideological circle that is based on a myth and has no basis on fact or logic. You've failed to make any connection between your god and reality and therefore are an abject failure just like your mythological faith.
Atheists score: 30 Eve : 0 :popcorn:
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"Quote from: "Eve"I do? WOW! It makes me happy :-D
I always have good relationships with people. People like me because I like them first.
Do you like me? I like me.
I am glad you like you. You should also love you. :)
I get someone else to do that for me.
[quote="Jason
Quote from: Harbinger[quote="
In what planet this gods live ?
Quote from: "leo"In what planet this gods live ?
Our
[quote="mykcob4
QuoteBut will biology classes tell me why flesh and bones or in other words why piece of meat with bones needs to make different choices, love or hate, be happy, create art and do good and positive things or do evil/ destructive things?
Science doesn't answer "why" questions. Also, just because you make shit up doesn't mean there has to be an answer.
QuoteCan you even support by something this interesting definition of yours?
Assume that the original human being was perfect (ie; the best possible). It then becomes spoiled.
I can now imagine an even better human being: one that cannot be spoiled.
Thus, the originally posted human being was not perfect, as a better one is possible.
This leaves us with two possible explanations:
A) the original human wasn't perfect
B) your version of the word "perfect" is meaningless.
(The answer is "both", of course.)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Atheists score: 30 Eve : 0 :popcorn:
for what is atheists score 30? for not knowing WHY DOES PHYSICAL BODY WHICH IS A PIECE OF MEAT AND BONES NEED MAKE CHOICES, LOVE OR HATE, CREATE ART AND HAVE DESIRE TO BE HAPPY?
I know why I need all this but why does my physical body need this?
THAT IS THE QUESTION!
You could phrase it a little better.
While you're at it, could you let us know the name of the star that's near the planet where your gods live?
[
QuoteDid I mention that everything including perfection is relatively?
No you haven't butchered the meaning of the word perfect before, but I guess it was about time since otherwise you might have had to admit that you were full of shit.
You have just slaughtered the meaning of the word perfect, thereby once again showing that you
A) will stop at nothing to prevent having to say "I was wrong"
B) have no respect for the meaning of words
and
C) expecting you to actually be able to understand anything is pointless
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "kilodelta"Quote from: "Eve"But you need FAITH if true God for one reason: to RETURN to Him. To return to place where you came from.
Wrong again. The Pope stated that atheists get into heaven too. So, faith is not required. It seems you've been wasting your time with religion and the supernatural.
1) I don't follow Pope. But I agree with him that atheists may go to heaven.
2)Faith is required. If you don't have faith in Christ in this life you may have an opportunity in spirit world to accept Christ before your resurrection. If you reject Christ after you die you will not enter heaven but lower glory(lower kingdom).
P.S. I am not preaching so don't believe me. I only respond to your argument.
1. You have to follow the Pope!!! All Christians follow everything he says. That claim is true without needing support because that is a philosophy. (Using your logic.)
2. Faith is not. See 1. Since Jesus is a god, and an atheist doesn't believe in gods, but can get into heaven, that contradiction obviously means that there is ne Jesus. That argument is as sound as all of yours.
3. I don't make arguments, I make claims. Please preach, but don't proselytize. (BTW, that's not possible.) But, I heard that bacteria can preach without proselytizing. I would give you an example, but then that would be going outside of your rules.
[quote="Plu
Quotewhat is the definition of "perfect"
Here they are:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect?s=t (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect?s=t)
You can try to butcher the language further by claiming you meant number 3, but we all know you didn't and you're just making shit up as you go. You were using number 4 in your earlier posts.
QuoteBecause I know not about such things.
There aren't any. "Perfect" is a theoretical descriptor that cannot be added to real objects. It's only useful in mathematics and to exaggarate your point. (And it's used to wow people who don't think too much, too.)
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Atheists score: 30 Eve : 0 :popcorn:
for what is atheists score 30? for not knowing WHY DOES PHYSICAL BODY WHICH IS A PIECE OF MEAT AND BONES NEED MAKE CHOICES, LOVE OR HATE, CREATE ART AND HAVE DESIRE TO BE HAPPY?
I know why I need all this but why does my physical body need this?
THAT IS THE QUESTION!
You could phrase it a little better.
While you're at it, could you let us know the name of the star that's near the planet where your gods live?
Ya, I still don't know what Eve is trying to say with that statement. He assumes there is a need and backs that assumption up with belief. Then states that this belief is not an innate universal truth, then wants us to explain it. Basically he created something that only he believes in and wants us to explain why.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Atheists score: 30 Eve : 0 :popcorn:
for what is atheists score 30? for not knowing WHY DOES PHYSICAL BODY WHICH IS A PIECE OF MEAT AND BONES NEED MAKE CHOICES, LOVE OR HATE, CREATE ART AND HAVE DESIRE TO BE HAPPY?
I know why I need all this but why does my physical body need this?
THAT IS THE QUESTION!
Because, the tiny aliens inside our bodies need hate in order to live. So, without love, there is no hate, there for intelligent bacteria have to be made by intelligent alien gods from a planet with no name and the meat is just the vessel for the spaghetti energy to be shown in the real world because "BONES NEED MAKE CHOICES."
Eve,
I have taken upon myself to follow all your rules of posting on this forum.
Since Jesus doesn't exist, why aren't more Christians happy? Is it because they all follow the Pope?
And if god loves atheists more than theists, why does he allow only atheists into his grace?
Quote from: "Eve"Kolob.
P.S. what is the better way?
Where is Kolob? Right ascension and declination please.
The better way would be to drop the caps, and try and phrase your question less awkwardly. Be clear about what it is that you want answered.
Quote from: IcarusYa, I still don't know what
[quote="
:popcorn: Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Ya, I still don't know what Eve is trying to say with that statement. He assumes there is a need and backs that assumption up with belief.
She, not he. You know what I am asking. You can read. But probably you don't understand what I am asking.
OK, let's say that my assumption is up with belief. Then how do you back up your assumption that physical body meat and bones has no need in happiness but has ability to have it(happiness) any way? or has no need to create art but has ability to do it and like it or dislike it any way?
You can read. Answer my question: since Jesus isn't real, do the Klingons still need to make war? Or do intelligent bacteria control their brains? Then how do you back up your assumption?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Solitary"Eve, how does a heart keep beating when it is no longer in a body? Does it have intelligence?
It does need intelligence to do so IF it is acted upon and has a unique design. Rock also moves if you kick it. It is acted on and doesn't need intelligence. But design of your heart is very intelligent. Can you deny that?
Intelligent designs are made by designer/designers. This statement can be supported by many facts
P.S. So, your physical body(flesh and bones) is not only acted on as in case with heart or rock but it(flesh and bones) also acts. It makes decisions, it creates songs and poems and art and builds many things and loves and hates and has compassion. Because it has intelligence. Why does it(flesh and bones/physical matter) need it - to create things/to act/to hate or love if it has no intelligence?
I know why I and not my flesh and bones need it. I need it because it makes me happy and I can make others happy. It makes my life and life of others more interesting and easier and more meaningful. But why does my flesh and bones need all this I do not know. Do you?
Where does this ability(to act/to create) come from?
You side stepped by question---does a heart itself have intelligence? :roll: Solitary
QuoteLet's pretend He gave this revelation/info then what would it change?
We could check to see if it was correct, obviously.
Quote from: kilodeltaEve,
Quote from: "Plu"QuoteLet's pretend He gave this revelation/info then what would it change?
We could check
Quote from: Solitary[quote="
If heart
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Ya, I still don't know what Eve is trying to say with that statement. He assumes there is a need and backs that assumption up with belief.
She, not he. You know what I am asking. You can read. But probably you don't understand what I am asking.
OK, let's say that my assumption is up with belief. Then how do you back up your assumption that physical body meat and bones has no need in happiness but has ability to have it(happiness) any way? or has no need to create art but has ability to do it and like it or dislike it any way?
In a universe where we're mere specs of dust amongst unfathomable clusters of energy, there is no 'need'. We are simply one of the trillions of products the big bang created. You're working on a minute scale and need to understand the universe is stupidly massive. Humans and our art, happiness and philosophy have only been around for 7000 years (ish); the universe has been around for 13.9 billion years. This means humans have been around for 0.0000507% of the universe. Why do you think you're special and have a need when the universe has shown you to be insignificant.
Quote from: kilodeltaWhy does body flesh
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"So here we go again. Eve can't debate out of a paper bag so she uses the old trump card of "god said it" as if that lends ANY credibility to her arguements.
It doesn't. Eve you have failed to make an argument. You have failed to prove anything of what you've said. You are lost in an ideological circle that is based on a myth and has no basis on fact or logic. You've failed to make any connection between your god and reality and therefore are an abject failure just like your mythological faith.
OK. Let's assume you are right. I don't want to change your opinion but I have a very simple question for you. The same question I asked others:
why does your physical body which is flesh and bones or a piece of meat with bones need make choices? to be happy? to have desire create art or a song? to do good to others?
do you know?
The answer to that question is very long and most likely beyond your comprehension. Also there are parts of the answer that are left unanswered because they have not been discovered. That is not to say that the answer or even part of the answer is that there is a god because that is making an unfounded assumption.
But the begining of the answer to your question goes like this. About 4 billion years ago when this planet was forming, in the depths of the vast ocean, static electricity struck and charged amino acids. This chemical physical reaction occured over and over again. These active amino acids formed and reformed evolving because of need (not intelligence). The ones that evolved that adapted to their surroundings, proliferated. Those that evolved counterintuative to their environment parrished. Thus the evolution race began. The rest is a long exhaustive study of life, biology, chemistry, physics, and evolution.
:-|
[quote="
Quote from: "Eve"I WAS ASKED BY ATHEIST:
WHY DO YOU ASSUME THAT FLESH AND BONES - physical matter NEED TO MAKE CHOICES AND BE HAPPY?
Why the hell would anything need to be happy? Did that person give you an answer, Eve? If so, what was it?
I've always said there is more to life than being happy, but that's just me.
Uhmm.. survival.. It's no more some magic man in the sky given than it just happens.. Some things we just don't know so your shortcut is goddidit.. :roll:
Quote from: "Eve"Why does body flesh and bones makes choices: good or bad? and wants to be happy?
I answered that. The little green men that live inside of us require evil for good purposes. You see, the midichlorians that reside inside the little green men allow people to force things with intelligence. Without bones, happiness is just a soft flimsy thing that excites no one and gets no one off except for those without bones. But, that's another story. As for flesh, that's never happy. It's always sad. Like a sad little man sitting alone in a boat. It this lonely sailor (flesh) requires bones to be happy... though, perhaps other sailors might come along with the lonely sailor. That's only in movies though. I don't mean to preach, this is just what Moses told me when I visited his planet.
(//http://www.troll.me/images/bill-oreilly/midichlorians-you-cant-explain-that-thumb.jpg)
Yes I can.
(//http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/midichlorian.png)
(//http://www.quickmeme.com/img/49/49119e709e8b827e3d255c7ab54bbd003b5f30eaaa93b3efac40915fb5041a14.jpg)
(//http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/Vodstok/jedicell.jpg)
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"The answer to that question is very long and most likely beyond your comprehension.
Try me.
Quote from: "mykcob4"But the begining of the answer to your question goes like this. About 4 billion years ago when this planet was forming, in the depths of the vast ocean, static electricity struck and charged amino acids. This chemical physical reaction occured over and over again. These active amino acids formed and reformed evolving because of need (not intelligence).
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh! NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!
So physical matter has a NEED. Interesting. WHY does physical matter has NEED? Why does my body(piece of physical matter) has NEED BE HAPPY?
Quote from: "mykcob4"The ones that evolved that adapted to their surroundings, proliferated. Those that evolved counterintuative to their environment parrished. Thus the evolution race began. The rest is a long exhaustive study of life, biology, chemistry, physics, and evolution.
Great. But that doesn't explain why PHYSICAL MATTER has a NEED OF HAPPINES. I know I (piece of physical matter) do! :-D
AHHHHHHH!!!! You are jumping to conclussions and making assumptions. Because something has a need doesn't mean that a god exist at all, not even remotely. I said that it was a long explaination and I knew that it would be too complex for you to comprehend. I never said "need of happiness" not once did I ever mention happiness.
As far as happiness goes it boils down to satisfying needs. Happiness is an evolution that drives us to pleasure and satisfying needs. For example sugar is a source of energy. we need energy. Our body craves energy and therefore craves sugar or forms of sugar. we satisfy our needs by consuming sugar. It makes us happy when we consume sugar. Happiness is just an evolved response to need. Emotion is an evolved response to need.
Quote from: "mykcob4"AHHHHHHH!!!!
Try screaming into a pillow as loudly as you can. It helps. :)
I'm departing this thread. I'd like to leave a serious thought for you Eve.
Where do your space gods fall within the context of this video?
[youtube:2rfl9gbp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ7Zqex2KGw[/youtube:2rfl9gbp]
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"Quote from: "Eve"I am glad you like you. You should also love you. :)
I get someone else to do that for me.
that is good. but you can also love yourself. You can like you and person that loves you can like you.
That's like, totally deep.
Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
Quote from: "leo"Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
In reference to this^ What is today's definition for god? It seems that it keeps changing. :lol:
Quote from: "leo"Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
Aliens? those who look like green people? I have no idea who they are or what they are. I don't even know if they exist.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "leo"Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
In reference to this^ What is today's definition for god? It seems that it keeps changing. :lol:
I only know what kind of definition of word "god" God of this world gives. I don't pay attention at definitions of God/god by men(flesh and blood). Nobody should.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Why the hell would anything need to be happy?
That is MY question. Why do I, piece of physical matter, have a need to be happy?
I KNOW I do.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Did that person give you an answer, Eve? If so, what was it?
Those people do not believe that piece of physical matter - flesh and bones - has a need to be happy. They have an answer. I have an answer. But I want to hear an answer of the atheists.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"I've always said there is more to life than being happy, but that's just me.
I didn't say that there is not. But I have never met a piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) yet who doesn't want to have happiness. I have never met a person who wants to miserable.
Why do I want help somebody? Because it make me and somebody happy.
When I create something and have great results it makes me happy.
When I overcome something it makes me happy.
I like to do or hear, or see, or feel, or have anything that brings me happiness and progression not destruction.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Why the hell would anything need to be happy?
That is MY question. Why do I, piece of physical matter, have a need to be happy?
I KNOW I do.
Is that all you wanted to know? That's super easy, when you're happy you produce these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins)
They give you the warm 'feels', neurochemicals are pretty awesome.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "leo"Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
In reference to this^ What is today's definition for god? It seems that it keeps changing. :lol:
I only know what kind of definition of word "god" God of this world gives. I don't pay attention at definitions of God/god by men(flesh and blood). Nobody should.
I think we should. Even if I don't believe in something, I would like to know what someone is talking about. Especially when a huge amount of the people that believe in a god kill, die, and do drastic things in the name of it. Each time I ask someone "what does your god do?" I get a different answer. It all seems so ambiguous to me.
Quote from: "Icarus"Is that all you wanted to know? That's super easy, when you're happy you produce these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins)
They give you the warm 'feels', neurochemicals are pretty awesome.
I thought what I call happy is different from other people's happy... but if you're going by that, then yes. we need that :lol:
Quote from: "mykcob4"AHHHHHHH!!!! You are jumping to conclussions and making assumptions. Because something has a need doesn't mean that a god exist at all, not even remotely.
I can accept this argument as the truth.
Quote from: "mykcob4"I said that it was a long explaination and I knew that it would be too complex for you to comprehend. I never said "need of happiness" not once did I ever mention happiness.
I didn't say you did.
Quote from: "mykcob4"As far as happiness goes it boils down to satisfying needs. Happiness is an evolution that drives us to pleasure and satisfying needs. For example sugar is a source of energy. we need energy. Our body craves energy and therefore craves sugar or forms of sugar. we satisfy our needs by consuming sugar. It makes us happy when we consume sugar. Happiness is just an evolved response to need. Emotion is an evolved response to need.
Great. You explained to me why piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) may have response as satisfaction/happiness.
So piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) craves everything that will sustain its life or make it work the way it should. Piece of physical matter may crave for physical pleasure so it will be able reproduce or multiply and replenish. Piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) can have fear for self-preservation.
Perfect. Oh! By the way I didn't expect this answer from you. I thought you only know very good how to curse and get angry. I was wrong.
Now I can ask my second question.
Why does piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) need craving for power and wealth?
Why does piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) need feeling as envy/coveting?
Then later I would like to ask my third question.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"AHHHHHHH!!!! You are jumping to conclussions and making assumptions. Because something has a need doesn't mean that a god exist at all, not even remotely.
I can accept this argument as the truth.
Quote from: "mykcob4"I said that it was a long explaination and I knew that it would be too complex for you to comprehend. I never said "need of happiness" not once did I ever mention happiness.
I didn't say you did.
Quote from: "mykcob4"As far as happiness goes it boils down to satisfying needs. Happiness is an evolution that drives us to pleasure and satisfying needs. For example sugar is a source of energy. we need energy. Our body craves energy and therefore craves sugar or forms of sugar. we satisfy our needs by consuming sugar. It makes us happy when we consume sugar. Happiness is just an evolved response to need. Emotion is an evolved response to need.
Great. You explained to me why physical matter(flesh and bones) may have response as satisfaction/happiness.
So piece of physical body(flesh and bones) craves everything that will sustain its life or make it work the way it should. Piece of physical matter may crave for physical pleasure so it will be able reproduce or multiply and replenish. Piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) can have fear for self-preservation.
Perfect. Oh! By the way I didn't expect this answer from you. I thought you only know very good how to curse and get angry. I was wrong.
Now I can ask my second question.
Why does piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) need craving for power and wealth?
Why does piece of matter(flesh and bones) need feeling as envy/coveting?
Then later I would like to ask my third question.
Your second question is a softball question (easy).
Self preservation evolves into power because power controls assets. Assets are neceray to sustain life and procreate. Wealth is the same as power.
FYI. I was never angry. I didn't get mad at all. I did cuss/curse. I have the same philosophy as Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, and Mark Twain. That is that I use words that people can understand and they always understand the cuss words!
Eve another aspect that you either aren't aware of or just ignore is, that how and what you belief has been foisted upon you. You didn't use independent thought or critical thinking to come up with your belief. Obviously you actually don't know what you believe. All this Alien talk and trying to describe your god shows just how uneducated you are even in your own faith. I have devout Mormon neighbors. I know what they believe and why. I have even been to their temple on many occassions. They want badly to convert me...not gonna happen. They have no clue why you have resorted to this "alien" description of their god. They consider it blasphomous. They think that you are severely confused and maybe trying to elude to the levels of heaven that one can achieve. They actually want me to turn you over to them so that you can be REINSTRUCTED! I said that is a violation of the forum and refused.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Eve another aspect that you either aren't aware of or just ignore is, that how and what you belief has been foisted upon you. You didn't use independent thought or critical thinking to come up with your belief. Obviously you actually don't know what you believe. All this Alien talk and trying to describe your god shows just how uneducated you are even in your own faith. I have devout Mormon neighbors. I know what they believe and why. I have even been to their temple on many occassions. They want badly to convert me...not gonna happen. They have no clue why you have resorted to this "alien" description of their god. They consider it blasphomous.
WOW! You have been in the Temple on many occasions?! And how is it possible to be in their Temple on many occasions if you don't have temple recommend?
I never called our God an alien. But I said that He has physical body ( flesh and bones), that He lives on His planet near Kolob. May be they are not LDS? Or may be they don't know the Scriptures?
Quote from: "mykcob4"They think that you are severely confused and maybe trying to elude to the levels of heaven that one can achieve. They actually want me to turn you over to them so that you can be REINSTRUCTED! I said that is a violation of the forum and refused.
Tell them what I said: Our God lives near Kolob and has body of flesh and bones. See if they believe the same. Oh, can you ask them please where do they believe our God lives? and ask them please what kind of body He has?
WOW!
I'll just repost this to make sure you aren't conviently ignoring it.
Quotewhat is the definition of "perfect"
Here they are:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect?s=t (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perfect?s=t)
You can try to butcher the language further by claiming you meant number 3, but we all know you didn't and you're just making shit up as you go. You were using number 4 in your earlier posts.
QuoteBecause I know not about such things.
There aren't any. "Perfect" is a theoretical descriptor that cannot be added to real objects. It's only useful in mathematics and to exaggarate your point. (And it's used to wow people who don't think too much, too.)
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "Ever"Now I can ask my second question.
Why does piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) need craving for power and wealth?
Why does piece of matter(flesh and bones) need feeling as envy/coveting?
Then later I would like to ask my third question.
Your second question is a softball question (easy).
Self preservation evolves into power because power controls assets. Assets are neceray to sustain life and procreate. Wealth is the same as power.[/quote]
I can accept this argument. And a follow-up question. Let's say I am the most powerful and richest piece of meat with bones in the kingdom. No one is treat to me. But I(piece of meat with bones) still want more. Why do I, piece of meat with bones, want what is not needed any more? I am greedy piece of meat with bones. Where is it coming from and what for?
Or envy? why is piece of meat with bones envy? what for?
And I still don't understand why sometimes when I(piece of physical matter/flesh and bones) am full of energy and not craving sugar and full(flesh is satisfied) have no physical pain and healthy still is not happy ? what else is lacking for piece of meat and bones(me)? Let's say I need attention of others and don't have it. Why does piece of meat with bones need attention of others to feel happy?
Quote from: "mykcob4"FYI. I was never angry. I didn't get mad at all.
It is hard to believe but I guess I will do it.
Quote from: "mykcob4"I did cuss/curse. I have the same philosophy as Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, and Mark Twain. That is that I use words that people can understand and they always understand the cuss words!
The problem with this philosophy in my humble opinion is that when I understand your cuss/curse I don't want to understand the rest(important stuff). There are better ways to make people to understand you or even have a desire to understand you.
I loved to read Mark Twain when I was a kid. But my favorite was Jack London. I read almost everything of Jack London when I was a kid. I was impressed by his "Martin Eden" novel. I know I wouldn't like it now. I also loved to read O'Henry. He is funny. Did you know that O'Henry wrote his humorous stories while he was in jail?
P.S. I will ask more questions. I do have them.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Why the hell would anything need to be happy?
That is MY question. Why do I, piece of physical matter, have a need to be happy?
I KNOW I do.
Is that all you wanted to know? That's super easy, when you're happy you produce these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorphins)
They give you the warm 'feels', neurochemicals are pretty awesome.
Serotonin /?s?r??to?n?n/ or 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) is a monoamine neurotransmitter. Biochemically derived from tryptophan, serotonin is primarily found in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, platelets, and in the central nervous system (CNS) of animals, including humans. It is popularly thought to be a contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness.[6]
how does it answer my question?
I don't ask how happiness "works" in me(piece of meat with bones) or what helps me to feel happiness/what gives me warm feel. But why do I(piece of meat with bones) desire it/happiness? I know I do.
Because being happy is useful, both in a societal and evolutionary context. It's also useful personally to feel content with your life. Productivity increases, as does chances for procreation.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"Where is Kolob? Right ascension and declination please.
I don't know. When God gives this revelation I will let you know.
Let's pretend He gave this revelation/info then what would it change?
If you had any actual information, then it could be verified.
So far all you've given us is stories. Stories that in all likelihood have been made up, because they don't correspond to facts that we already know about reality.
Quote from: "Eve"I don't ask how happiness "works" in me(piece of meat with bones) or what helps me to feel happiness/what gives me warm feel. But why do I(piece of meat with bones) desire it/happiness? I know I do.
It because you have a system of neurons in your brain that respond to a positive feedback mechanism. Maybe you've heard about the "reward center" of the brain?
Quote from: "Eve"Serotonin /?s?r??to?n?n/ or 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) is a monoamine neurotransmitter. Biochemically derived from tryptophan, serotonin is primarily found in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, platelets, and in the central nervous system (CNS) of animals, including humans. It is popularly thought to be a contributor to feelings of well-being and happiness.[6]
how does it answer my question?
I don't ask how happiness "works" in me(piece of meat with bones) or what helps me to feel happiness/what gives me warm feel. But why do I(piece of meat with bones) desire it/happiness? I know I do.
Because you're a drug addict that likes to be high. Those neurochemicals get you high, you want to be happy so you can produce them.
Eve in answer to your third question. That is also very easy. When you understand that every living creature has a need to survive in various forms (continuing the DNA and so forth) you understand that evolution drives everything. Envy, greed, and all emotions are just manifestations of survival and nothing more. In our evolutionary developement, we as a species developed our brains for our survival advantage. Abstract thought became our biggest advantage in predicting food sources, protection, procreation and things like that. A byproduct of abstract thought is wonderment. It's really algebraic. That wonderment, contemplating the unknown, the need for answers evolved with and beyond what we call basic needs. It might even be described as over development or over evolution. In some cases it defies logic. Our brains battle with need, logic, emotion, and the desire to answer the unknown. Some of us take that need to answer the unknown down a wrong path. Since all animals living things take the path of least resistance, some of us create answers to unknown questions based on nothing. Illogical answers with absolutely no facts to support those answers. We do all sorts of stupid things like make up monsters that aren't there. Make up gods and beings with supernatural powers to answer questions that we do not have solutions for. We invent things that cannot be true. We even base our lives on these creations in our imagination. Mankind by and large will follow what we feel is the easiest path for survival, success. We follow each other down these paths. In the past it led to food or shelter. The "leaders" were people that we falsely gave special powers to. The tribe would think that these leaders had special knowledge could communicate with a supreme being. Eventually we as tribe members called the "profits" as we profitted by their ability to bring us assets needed to survive. Over the years we culturally granted more powers to these profits than they ever pocessed. We created a supreme being that these profits communicated with. Then our minds backfilled stories of these profits and the manmade creation of the supreme being that they supposedly communicated with. Thats why throughout history kings are thought to be divine, chosen. Because think about it. If you have a tribe that is dependent on a person that is really capable of "finding food" and other special skills, you never want to lose that advantage. When he dies you need a replacement. Since all things are genetic you assume that their offspring has the same capabilities. You attribute lineage to them. You assume that their children have inherrited the same talents. Thus the manmade back story of a divine power and the "profit" is culturally woven into the society. Then it becomes a herritage. It's just folklore, a myth, but culturally it is woven into the very fabric of society. The society ends up obeying the myth, basing everything on the myth. Generation after generation ignores critical thinking and logical thought and obeys a complete an utter myth. Thus is the reason that a "god" myth" persist in societies.
Take your own belief. You haven't any facts whatsoever to back them up or explain them. You have to keep adding to the myth by making up things, like gods on a distant planet. Or aliens that visited this planet and gave a "chosen one" special knowledge. It's a myth. It's lazy thinking or the lack of thinking. It's mindless obedience to a manmade story. It is fantasy.
It's a good time to show that logic or arguments can never show us what facts and the truth is. I believe Eve is aware of this and just having fun making fools of us with her linguistic ability to use every slick maneuver she can. 8-) Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"Now I can ask my second question.
Why does piece of physical matter(flesh and bones) need craving for power and wealth?
Why does piece of matter(flesh and bones) need feeling as envy/coveting?
Envy and coveting motivate people to try to get the same things. People who don't have less than the people around them have an easier time acquiring mates. People with mates are more likely to reproduce. Someone leaving their partner because they 'aren't a good provider for their family' is a familiar story. So is not passing time with potential mates who don't have their own car, still live with their family, and so forth.
Quote from: "Eve"I can accept this argument. And a follow-up question. Let's say I am the most powerful and richest piece of meat with bones in the kingdom. No one is treat to me. But I(piece of meat with bones) still want more. Why do I, piece of meat with bones, want what is not needed any more? I am greedy piece of meat with bones. Where is it coming from and what for?
Or envy? why is piece of meat with bones envy? what for?
There's no reason for an off-switch for greed and envy when it comes to evolution unless 1. acquiring too much stuff and wanting other people's stuff too much reduces your chance to reproduce and 2. it happens often enough for the excessively greedy to be culled from the gene pool.
Quote from: "Eve"And I still don't understand why sometimes when I(piece of physical matter/flesh and bones) am full of energy and not craving sugar and full(flesh is satisfied) have no physical pain and healthy still is not happy ? what else is lacking for piece of meat and bones(me)? Let's say I need attention of others and don't have it. Why does piece of meat with bones need attention of others to feel happy?
I notice you keep leaving 'brain and mind' out of your description. Maybe you should stop nailing your very poor metaphor into the ground so much. When you're full and healthy is the perfect time to build up your mate-attracting qualities. Humans are a social species that tend to die when isolated from the group. Individuals who felt happy around others survived, individuals who were happy to live alone had less of an opportunity to reproduce.
Quote from: "Harbinger"Because being happy is useful, both in a societal and evolutionary context. It's also useful personally to feel content with your life. Productivity increases, as does chances for procreation.
I like your answer. Those are good reasons to be happy. But my question is not really about this. My questions is not about fruits of the happiness/what happiness does to us.
My question is this:
what is in me(piece of meat with bones/piece of physical matter) is "responsible" or creates strong DESIRE to have happiness?
how about envy? What is in me(piece if meat with bones) is "responsible" for envy?
or what is "responsible" for the desire to have more then I(piece of meat and bones) need?
Later I really want to ask about something else. Kind of opposite of "desire".
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Eve"Let's pretend He gave this revelation/info then what would it change?
If you had any actual information, then it could be verified.
true.
Quote from: "Jason78"So far all you've given us is stories. Stories that in all likelihood have been made up, because they don't correspond to facts that we already know about reality.
yes. But I don't ask you to accept it. I just share some information about what God revealed. And I do only when I am asked specific question. I didn't come here like this: "Hey, people, this is what you have to accept!"
Quotewhat is in me(piece of meat with bones/piece of physical matter) is "responsible" or creates strong DESIRE to have happiness?
You are like a four year old who keeps asking "but what causes this?" longer after it stops making sense. The thing that is creating the desire to have happiness is the hormones in your body. Other hormones in your body are the thing that makes you feel happy. The story ends there. There is no "why", because the "why" is just something people made up to control other people.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Eve"I don't ask how happiness "works" in me(piece of meat with bones) or what helps me to feel happiness/what gives me warm feel. But why do I(piece of meat with bones) desire it/happiness? I know I do.
It because you have a system of neurons in your brain that respond to a positive feedback mechanism. Maybe you've heard about the "reward center" of the brain?
QUOTE: Interestingly, the reward center doesn't kick into gear only when we eat something delicious or meet a potential new love interest. [/quote]It turns out that generosity can be quite a kick too! MRI studies have revealed that when we perform an act of kindness, the brain's reward center is aroused and we experience feelings of pleasure.
The brain is flooded with happiness-inducing dopamine whenever we give a homeless person some money or help out someone in need. A study conducted in 2008 confirmed the belief that spending money on other people can result in elevated feelings of happiness for the giver [source: Goldberg].
So, this explains how we feel happiness or what helps me (piece of meat with bones) to feel happiness. But it doesn't explain where the DESIRE comes from.
What you share with me is ONLY EXPLAIN HOW THINGS WORK in me who is a piece of meat with bones.
But what is "responsible" for my desire to be happy? I am asking about WHAT IS THE CAUSE of my DESIRE OF HAPPINESS and not what is making me (piece of meat and bones) feel happy.
because that's how it is, there is no bigger explanation, that's how your are "made" therefore that's how you act. (an anyone with basic science education knows that by "made" i don't mean made by a conscious being.)
Quote from: "Plu"You are like a four year old who keeps asking "but what causes this?" longer after it stops making sense.
that is a good question:" what causes it? many great scientists ask this good question and look for an answer.
Quote from: "Plu"The thing that is creating the desire to have happiness is the hormones in your body.
Could you please give me a link where I can read about how hormone creates desire to have happiness? I will really appreciate it.
Quote from: "Plu"Other hormones in your body are the thing that makes you feel happy. The story ends there.
OK. I am not asking about those hormons.
Quote from: "Plu"There is no "why", because the "why" is just something people made up to control other people.
When someone doesn't like question "why" it is usually because this someone has no answer or don't want to answer(wants to hide the truth for some reason).
If I ask you about why you do or say things because it makes me feel bad/uncomfortable then I want to control you. But if my questions have nothing to do with you or me there is no control.
When child asks "why" question about things around him/her it is not an evidence of control. It is a process of learning.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"You are like a four year old who keeps asking "but what causes this?" longer after it stops making sense.
that is a good question:" what causes it? many great scientists ask this good question and look for an answer.
Quote from: "Plu"The thing that is creating the desire to have happiness is the hormones in your body.
Could you please give me a link where I can read about how hormone creates desire to have happiness? I will really appreciate it.
Quote from: "Plu"Other hormones in your body are the thing that makes you feel happy. The story ends there.
OK. I am not asking about those hormons.
Quote from: "Plu"There is no "why", because the "why" is just something people made up to control other people.
When someone doesn't like question "why" it is usually because this someone has no answer or don't want to answer(wants to hide the truth for some reason).
If I ask you about why you do or say things because it makes me feel bad/uncomfortable then I want to control you. But if my questions have nothing to do with you or me there is no control.
When child asks "why" question about things around him/her it is not an evidence of control. It is a process of learning.
Yes and many of those questions are meaningless. Especially a lot of the "why" questions, since usually why implies purpose. Basic minds like infants, our ancestors and sadly many modern age adults.... like to try to stick purpose to things that have no will. Its called teleological thinking read about it.
Quote from: "mauricio"because that's how it is, there is no bigger explanation, that's how your are "made" therefore that's how you act. (an anyone with basic science education knows that by "made" i don't mean made by a conscious being.)
Great. thanks for an answer. Now I know that atheist don't know why piece of meat with bones - piece of physical matter has desire to be happy, or has envy, or wishes more then it needs(greed).
Or let's not forget about pride. What is responsible or creates in me(piece of meat) PRIDE?
But it should come from somewhere.
Then I have my last question. And this is about WILL.
What is responsible or creates in me(piece of meat with bones) STRONG WILL.
Let's say me(piece of meat with bones) craves for pleasure. Pleasure is ALWAYS a good thing for the body(physical body). It creates positive emotions.. Then what does create in me(piece of meat with bones) STRENGTH TO CONTROL this craving for pleasure(which is GOOD for me-piece of meat with bones?
Example. Piece of meat with bones wants to drink coffee/very strong craving. But piece of meat with bones believes in keeping law of God that prohibit using it. Piece of meat with bones has power to control its appetite.
What is responsible in piece of meat with bones for control of appetite or craving?
They said: physical body is CRAVING but spirit is WILLING. If there is no such thing as spirit then what is responsible for WILLING AGAINST THE CRAVING?
CONCLUSION: question about piece of meat with bones
1)what is responsible for envy?
2)what is responsible for pride?
3)what is responsible for wishing more than it is needed?
4)what is responsible for controlling cravings/pleasures?
5)what is responsible for hope and faith?
Quote from: "mauricio"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"You are like a four year old who keeps asking "but what causes this?" longer after it stops making sense.
that is a good question:" what causes it? many great scientists ask this good question and look for an answer.
Quote from: "Plu"The thing that is creating the desire to have happiness is the hormones in your body.
Could you please give me a link where I can read about how hormone creates desire to have happiness? I will really appreciate it.
Quote from: "Plu"Other hormones in your body are the thing that makes you feel happy. The story ends there.
OK. I am not asking about those hormons.
Quote from: "Plu"There is no "why", because the "why" is just something people made up to control other people.
When someone doesn't like question "why" it is usually because this someone has no answer or don't want to answer(wants to hide the truth for some reason).
If I ask you about why you do or say things because it makes me feel bad/uncomfortable then I want to control you. But if my questions have nothing to do with you or me there is no control.
When child asks "why" question about things around him/her it is not an evidence of control. It is a process of learning.
Yes and many of those questions are meaningless. Especially a lot of the "why" questions, since usually why implies purpose. Basic minds like infants, our ancestors and sadly many modern age adults.... like to try to stick purpose to things that have no will. Its called teleological thinking read about it.
You don't know. But something is causing all this. Something is the source of hope and faith, and pride, and envy and self-control in piece of meat with bones.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"You are like a four year old who keeps asking "but what causes this?" longer after it stops making sense.
that is a good question:" what causes it? many great scientists ask this good question and look for an answer.
Yes. It is also critically different from the one you are asking. There is a world of difference between "how" and "why", and the former has answers while the latter generaly does not.
QuoteQuote from: "Plu"The thing that is creating the desire to have happiness is the hormones in your body.
Could you please give me a link where I can read about how hormone creates desire to have happiness? I will really appreciate it.
Can't find any. The internet is too crammed full of religious and "spiritual" folk spouting about how to be happy to be able to find anything right now. Give it a try for yourself if you want.
QuoteQuote from: "Plu"There is no "why", because the "why" is just something people made up to control other people.
When someone doesn't like question "why" it is usually because this someone has no answer or don't want to answer(wants to hide the truth for some reason).
No usually when people don't like the "why" question it's because the question itself is completely meaningless or has no properly definable answer. (Generally it isn't even a properly definable question).
What does your question even mean, in properly definable scientific terms? It basically means nothing at all and is thus un-answerable because the question simply makes no sense.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Eve in answer to your third question. That is also very easy. When you understand that every living creature has a need to survive in various forms (continuing the DNA and so forth) you understand that evolution drives everything. Envy, greed, and all emotions are just manifestations of survival and nothing more.
I can understand what you say.
And OK no more "why" questions. I had no idea atheists don't like "why" questions.
So I will ask "what" question:
what is responsible in piece of meat with bones for envy, pride, humility, self-control, hope and faith? I know that I(piece of meat with bones) have all that
Quote from: "mykcob4"In our evolutionary developement, we as a species developed our brains for our survival advantage. Abstract thought became our biggest advantage in predicting food sources, protection, procreation and things like that. A byproduct of abstract thought is wonderment. It's really algebraic. That wonderment, contemplating the unknown, the need for answers evolved with and beyond what we call basic needs. It might even be described as over development or over evolution. In some cases it defies logic. Our brains battle with need, logic, emotion, and the desire to answer the unknown. Some of us take that need to answer the unknown down a wrong path. Since all animals living things take the path of least resistance, some of us create answers to unknown questions based on nothing. Illogical answers with absolutely no facts to support those answers. We do all sorts of stupid things like make up monsters that aren't there. Make up gods and beings with supernatural powers to answer questions that we do not have solutions for. We invent things that cannot be true. We even base our lives on these creations in our imagination. Mankind by and large will follow what we feel is the easiest path for survival, success. We follow each other down these paths. In the past it led to food or shelter. The "leaders" were people that we falsely gave special powers to. The tribe would think that these leaders had special knowledge could communicate with a supreme being. Eventually we as tribe members called the "profits" as we profitted by their ability to bring us assets needed to survive. Over the years we culturally granted more powers to these profits than they ever pocessed. We created a supreme being that these profits communicated with. Then our minds backfilled stories of these profits and the manmade creation of the supreme being that they supposedly communicated with. Thats why throughout history kings are thought to be divine, chosen. Because think about it. If you have a tribe that is dependent on a person that is really capable of "finding food" and other special skills, you never want to lose that advantage. When he dies you need a replacement. Since all things are genetic you assume that their offspring has the same capabilities. You attribute lineage to them. You assume that their children have inherrited the same talents. Thus the manmade back story of a divine power and the "profit" is culturally woven into the society. Then it becomes a herritage. It's just folklore, a myth, but culturally it is woven into the very fabric of society. The society ends up obeying the myth, basing everything on the myth. Generation after generation ignores critical thinking and logical thought and obeys a complete an utter myth. Thus is the reason that a "god" myth" persist in societies.
Take your own belief. You haven't any facts whatsoever to back them up or explain them. You have to keep adding to the myth by making up things, like gods on a distant planet. Or aliens that visited this planet and gave a "chosen one" special knowledge. It's a myth. It's lazy thinking or the lack of thinking. It's mindless obedience to a manmade story. It is fantasy.
I understand what you said and I agree with you.
But what if I tell you that I have personal relationship with God of this world? What if I tell you that I do not rely only on words of the Prophets or any other people? What if I tell you that I have my own testimony that God lives/that He is real? How can you tell me that I don't have my own relationship with Him?
I think I know the answer: there is no way you can do that. Agree?
^^^^
You don't know either. That's the difference between atheists and theist folks . When we don't know something , we say I don't know . When theists don't know something they made shit up. :wink:
Quote from: "Plu"What does your question even mean, in properly definable scientific terms? It basically means nothing at all and is thus un-answerable because the question simply makes no sense.
WHAT does create in piece of meat and bones(me) pride, envy, self-control(will), humility, hope and faith?
this question makes sense to me.
So you believe this space gods ( aliens ) created us ? Really ?
Quote from: "Eve"I understand what you said and I agree with you.
But what if I tell you that I have personal relationship with God of this world? What if I tell you that I do not rely only on words of the Prophets or any other people? What if I tell you that I have my own testimony that God lives/that He is real? How can you tell me that I don't have my own relationship with Him?
I think I know the answer: there is no way you can do that. Agree?
oh the arrogance, seems like we have a very special snowflake here, sadly almost everyone else and their cat thinks the same and they contradict each other, what could that mean?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"What does your question even mean, in properly definable scientific terms? It basically means nothing at all and is thus un-answerable because the question simply makes no sense.
WHAT does create in piece of meat and bones(me) pride, envy, self-control(will), humility, hope and faith?
this question makes sense to me.
hint: pride envy will humility hope faith=/= properly definable scientific terms
Quote from: "leo"You don't know either. That's the difference between atheists and theist folks . When we don't know something , we say I don't know .
Yes, I know that.
But what if I say: " I know something from my PERSONAL experience? Does it mean it has to be a lie and not the truth?
I can tell you that I heard or saw something when I lived in Kiev and I was the only witness. I can not prove it to you but I KNOW what I saw or heard.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
Aliens? those who look like green people? I have no idea who they are or what they are. I don't even know if they exist.
You claim this gods live in another planet and have physical bodies . Aliens are life forms that live in another planets . I don't care if aliens exists or not . Many people created a religion from this alien shit.
Quote from: "leo"So you believe this space gods ( aliens ) created us ? Really ?
I do. Because I believe that what Spirit testifies to me is true. If it was you who told me this I wouldn't believe.
Quote from: "Eve"You don't know. But something is causing all this. Something is the source of hope and faith, and pride, and envy and self-control in piece of meat with bones.
enlighten me please what is this and what objective facts (meaning not just things in your imagination, things other people can actually corroborate) makes you think it is so.
Quote from: "leo"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Space gods? So aliens are gods now? :roll:
Aliens? those who look like green people? I have no idea who they are or what they are. I don't even know if they exist.
You claim this gods live in another planet and have physical bodies . Aliens are life forms than live in another planets . I don't care if aliens exists or not . Many people created a religion from this alien shit.
I don't know anything about those aliens and have no need to believe in them.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"So you believe this space gods ( aliens ) created us ? Really ?
I do. Because I believe that what Spirit testifies to me is true. If it was you who told me this I wouldn't believe.
And who created this gods ?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"What does your question even mean, in properly definable scientific terms? It basically means nothing at all and is thus un-answerable because the question simply makes no sense.
WHAT does create in piece of meat and bones(me) pride, envy, self-control(will), humility, hope and faith?
this question makes sense to me.
Making sense you is worthless, though. Everything makes sense inside of your own mind, no matter how clinically insane you are. It's only through measuring whether it makes sense on a more objective level that you learn whether your question really means something.
Yep . But your space gods sound like aliens to me . :wink:
Quote from: "Eve"I don't know anything about those aliens and have no need to believe in them.
How dense can you fucking be, you said God lives close to the kobowhatevershit star, alien means anything living outside of the earth, therefore you said god is an alien.
you are not going to change the meaning of the word alien, because people calling your god alien makes you realize how silly the whole shit is. Language is not only yours and you cannot communicate like that, stop thinking the world is all about you. You have not been chosen by god, he does not speak to you, humans are just as any other animal. You are almost nothing, you are not special, you are speck of dust in a speck of dust in an insanely big lonely void get over it, you need a serious reality check, then you will start to appreciate life for what it is and not the contrived delusion you have been indoctrinated on.
Quote from: "mauricio"Quote from: "Eve"I don't know anything about those aliens and have no need to believe in them.
How dense can you fucking be, you said God lives close to the kobowhatevershit star, alien means anything living outside of the earth, therefore you said god is an alien.
Ha ha ^^ this .
Ha ha Eve this is fun ! Are you for real ? You really believe in this ? Or you are joking with us? :-D
:-|
:-|
Okay Eve you can stop asking questions now. Your questions have been adequately answered to the point that unless you are a four year old you should be satisfied.
You can also stop with the "I am not making claims, I am sharing ..." whatever...!
We have come to the point that:
1) YOU have made certain claims.
2) We have asked for proof.
3) You don't offer proof or if you do it isn't proof but just more assertions unsubstatiated and false.
4) You then resort to saying that you haven't made any claims.
5) Now you are asking questions that are like push/poll questions designed for what you think will be an inevitable answer. In otherwords you ask questions that YOU think you know the outcome. Unfortunately for you we are experienced and have experienced this many times before. We know how to answer them and don't fall for such an immature trap.
6) Since you can't get the desired answer by your contrived questions, you ask more questions hoping for the outcome that you wish for,.....but it doesn't happen and won't because the reality is that you are wrong. You won't stop these questions. It's your only defense in your mind. It's futile and infantile but you keep persisting in this tact.
With every concievable sense of logic we have made available the truth the facts that you need to move on. We have given you ample oppertunity to present facts and truth, either you refuse or can't.
Finally it all comes down to this. You have no proof, never had any proof whatsoever. You are either poorly or severely uneducated. You are very shaky about your faith and barely know if any of it's basic tenets which is why you make up outrageous claims about it. Even people of your own faith find you lacking and actually disturbing.
It's time Eve to just admit that you don't have any real reason to believe you claims and no real reason to believe your faith.
I have been told not to expose your true identity which is why I have reserved that little nugget until you give me legal cause to do so.
I stopped cussing at you because you can't take it.
So are you done here? Because surely everyone else has decided that you are a troll.
:-|
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Ha ha Eve this is fun ! Are you for real ? You really believe in this ? Or you are joking with us? :-D
Are you for real? You BELIEVE that there is life on our Earth only? Interesting belief. Waste infinite space and only this Earth has life. That's Ok you can BELIEVE this
I think it's very likely for life to exists in other planets but to say this aliens are gods ( and our creators) that's another story. And who created this gods anyway ? :-D
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mauricio"Quote from: "Eve"You don't know. But something is causing all this. Something is the source of hope and faith, and pride, and envy and self-control in piece of meat with bones.
enlighten me please what is this and what objective facts (meaning not just things in your imagination, things other people can actually corroborate) makes you think it is so.
Let me respond to you this way:
Physical body doesn't need hope, faith, envy, self-control, pride, happiness, craving for something that is more than needed. There is NO NEED for this in order physical body to function properly and survive. Than it should be something else that is the source.
This something else SYMBOLICLY I will call "intelligence" or "spirit" or "person/god" that is inside of flesh and bones.
Scientist, for example, a large part of the mass that appears to be missing from the universe SUMBOLICLY call "dark matter".
I hope I spelled correctly "symbolicly"
Dark matter is not a symbol is a definable scientific term. We don't only do what we need to survive ( this is not news to anyone , you know people kill themselves?) still it does that not change that all we do is because of how our bodies are made, which are product of millions of years of survival in our environment and much less years of cultural evolution.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"Making sense you is worthless, though. Everything makes sense inside of your own mind, no matter how clinically insane you are. It's only through measuring whether it makes sense on a more objective level that you learn whether your question really means something.
Personal attack is not an argument.
Why don't you say: "I DON'T KNOW". I can accept this as an answer. As a matter of fact there is nothing wrong with this answer. I wonder what is the source of your pride?
Stop thinking the universe is all about you. You have not been chosen by god neither are you a god ( in any meaningful sense of that word), he does not speak to you, humans are just as any other animal. You are almost nothing, you are not special, you are speck of dust in a speck of dust in an insanely big lonely void get over it, you need a serious reality check, then you will start to appreciate life for what it is and not the contrived delusion you have been indoctrinated on.
:-|
They're not gods Eve. You don't even know if they exist or not. You can't attribute the creation of this world and its inhabitants to something you don't know exist.
The fact is that you are acting irrational psychotic even. Your answers are hysterical, pathelogically insane.
Aliens, gods from other planets that aren't aliens but are from other planets....yadda yadda yadaa, blah blah blah. It's ridiculous, nonsensicle,....NUTS!
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"I think it's very likely for life to exists in other planets
So, it is reasonable. It is reasonable to believe that God of this world is Alien /or Man Who lives on another planet.
Quote from: "leo"but to call this aliens gods ( and our creators) that's another story.
I agree.
Quote from: "leo"And who created this gods anyway ? :-D
their gods.
The burden proof is on you to provide evidence that this planet ( and life of this planet) was created by aliens " space gods" . So you are saying there isn't a ultimate cause for the universe and for life in this universe . We where created by this space gods and this space gods were created by other space gods . And so on and so on . So we would have a infinite regress ( infinite causes). :wink:
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"Making sense you is worthless, though. Everything makes sense inside of your own mind, no matter how clinically insane you are. It's only through measuring whether it makes sense on a more objective level that you learn whether your question really means something.
Personal attack is not an argument.
Why don't you say: "I DON'T KNOW". I can accept this as an answer. As a matter of fact there is nothing wrong with this answer. I wonder what is the source of your pride?
There are lots of things I don't know, but I do know your question is a meaningless one and that you are only asking it because people in the past have told you that it is relevant so that they can control your actions by supplying you with both a problem that doesn't exist and it's (obviously) only solution of listening to them.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mauricio"Dark matter is not a symbol is a definable scientific term.
"Term" or "word" is symbol. Letter is "symbol" And it can be given meaning to the symbols. Symbols help us to communicate and understand each other.
Quote from: "mauricio"We don't only do what we need to survive ( this is not news to anyone , you know people kill themselves?)
I don't argue with that. I ask "what" is the source of faith or hope, or pride etc.?
Quote from: "mauricio"still it does that not change that all we do is because of how our bodies are made,
you don't have any proof that your physical body is source of pride, envy, hope and faith. You don't have a proof of what is responsible for it. You BELIEVE that piece of meat with bones has faith, hope, envy, feel pride, ect.
Oh i absolutely do, you see when you crush that squishy bag of meat and bones (BMB), the BMB faith hope envy and pride, and whatever other abstract things that are only in the mind tend to fade away.
:-|
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Quote from: "Eve"You better tell me what is the source of you hopes and pride and envy or faith in others for example instead of attacking me personally? By the way where is this coming from? :-D
Not attacking you personally just telling you the facts, just telling the truth, but you are so far deep in bullshit its obvious it will not work, so i have nothing to answer to you about that. Your only chance now is to stop listening to the Mormons and start studying by yourself, start with some basic high school science.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"Making sense you is worthless, though. Everything makes sense inside of your own mind, no matter how clinically insane you are. It's only through measuring whether it makes sense on a more objective level that you learn whether your question really means something.
Personal attack is not an argument.
Why don't you say: "I DON'T KNOW". I can accept this as an answer. As a matter of fact there is nothing wrong with this answer. I wonder what is the source of your pride?
Come on, Eve. That's a load of crap and you know it.
There are tons of things that no one knows. The difference is, instead of making stuff up and stubbornly making it truth, we only claim the things that can be tested and proven true.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mauricio"Oh i absolutely do, you see when you crush that squishy bag of meat and bones (BMB), the BMB faith hope envy and pride, and whatever other abstract things that are only in the mind tend to fade away.
MIND!MIND!MIND! Finally we got to the word "MIND"!
So, tell me please what exactly "mind" is? Is this part of BMB? is it that mysterious source of pride, hope and faith and envy, or source of the DESIRE to have happiness?
What is this organized from?
this has already been explained to you earlier in this thread to no avail, it is not anyone's duty to educate you and fix your ignorance, stop wasting your time babbling here and go educate yourself you really need it.
Quote from: "mauricio"Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mauricio"Oh i absolutely do, you see when you crush that squishy bag of meat and bones (BMB), the BMB faith hope envy and pride, and whatever other abstract things that are only in the mind tend to fade away.
MIND!MIND!MIND! Finally we got to the word "MIND"!
So, tell me please what exactly "mind" is? Is this part of BMB? is it that mysterious source of pride, hope and faith and envy, or source of the DESIRE to have happiness?
What is this organized from?
this has already been explained to you earlier in this thread to no avail, it is not anyone's duty to educate you and fix your ignorance, stop wasting your time babbling here and go educate yourself you really need it.
Hey do you know Spanish ? That's my first language.
Quote from: "leo"Hey do you know Spanish ? That's my first language.
Yes i do leo i remember you asked me this long ago , like a year ago, and we talked a bit i rarely post in this forums as you can see by my low post count, only post when i really really feel like i want to, mainly when im very bored XD, but i have been reading threads here since i first read about science and atheism at the end of my high school in 2009.
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:lol: that guy looks so fucking baked like it's his first time... still he probably has more worthwhile ideas to share than eve :rollin:
Quote from: "mauricio":lol: that guy looks so fucking baked like it's his first time... still he probably has more worthwhile ideas to share than eve :rollin:
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Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "mauricio":lol: that guy looks so fucking baked like it's his first time... still he probably has more worthwhile ideas to share than eve :rollin:
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I've noticed lately that you are extremely successful at killing a thread just by posting images or youtube videos.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "mauricio":lol: that guy looks so fucking baked like it's his first time... still he probably has more worthwhile ideas to share than eve :rollin:
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I've noticed lately that you are extremely successful at killing a thread just by posting images or youtube videos.
Some threads need a good killin'.
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "mauricio":lol: that guy looks so fucking baked like it's his first time... still he probably has more worthwhile ideas to share than eve :rollin:
[ Image (//http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5846053_700b.jpg) ]
I've noticed lately that you are extremely successful at killing a thread just by posting images or youtube videos.
Thank you. :lol:
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"Because being happy is useful, both in a societal and evolutionary context. It's also useful personally to feel content with your life. Productivity increases, as does chances for procreation.
I like your answer. Those are good reasons to be happy. But my question is not really about this. My questions is not about fruits of the happiness/what happiness does to us.
My question is this:
what is in me(piece of meat with bones/piece of physical matter) is "responsible" or creates strong DESIRE to have happiness?
Chemistry. Nothing more. That is all you are.
Quote from: "Eve"how about envy? What is in me(piece if meat with bones) is "responsible" for envy?
or what is "responsible" for the desire to have more then I(piece of meat and bones) need?
Later I really want to ask about something else. Kind of opposite of "desire".
Same as above.
I think you need to clarify what it is exactly you're attempting to ellicit from the question you're asking. If you're asking about the process of what leads you to feel/want emotion 'x, then that's quite easily explained through biochemistry and neurology.
If you're asking about why we 'feel' in the first place (which I suspect you are), then that requries a contextual analysis of our evolution as a species and how that has moulded our bio-chemistry, our neurology, our psychologies.
If you're asking specifically about desire for emotion 'x', then others I believe have adequately responded. Natural chemical hormones released by various organs throughout the body create the artificial concept of desire within us to experience that over and over.
I say artificial because, like anything related to chemistry, we can alter what we 'desire' and what we 'want'. Some things are ubiqitous, such as te desire to be 'safe' and to want to 'survive' (Maslow's heirarchy of needs anyone?), wheras something's aren't (self-actualising from the same heriarchy). For some happiness isn't was actually makes them happy. Have you heard the saying "misery loves company?" - Some people can actually get hormone releases typically assoicated with positivity when they feel down.
But, within reason, this can be changed. Hormones released into our system are much like artificial drugs in their ablity to create an addiction. Adrenalin is much akin to nicotine for example in that users of both can experience a 'rush'. This, in turn, creates the artificial want or 'desire' because experiencing this over and over leaves us with the perception of us being better, or 'happy'.
It's all Chemistry, and it's all reliant on the bio-chemistry of our own individual bodies and the context in which we exist in. Your trigger for envy would almost certainly not be the same trigger as mine, yet the bio-chemical process would be identical.
So where is Eve ? :-D
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "Eve"Let's pretend He gave this revelation/info then what would it change?
If you had any actual information, then it could be verified.
true.
Quote from: "Jason78"So far all you've given us is stories. Stories that in all likelihood have been made up, because they don't correspond to facts that we already know about reality.
yes. But I don't ask you to accept it. I just share some information about what God revealed. And I do only when I am asked specific question. I didn't come here like this: "Hey, people, this is what you have to accept!"
I think we can stop here as you've conceded the argument.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mauricio"because that's how it is, there is no bigger explanation, that's how your are "made" therefore that's how you act. (an anyone with basic science education knows that by "made" i don't mean made by a conscious being.)
Great. thanks for an answer. Now I know that atheist don't know why piece of meat with bones - piece of physical matter has desire to be happy, or has envy, or wishes more then it needs(greed).
Or let's not forget about pride. What is responsible or creates in me(piece of meat) PRIDE?
We know. We've told you. You just don't like the answer. Because it hurts your PRIDE
Quote from: "Eve"But it should come from somewhere.
Why, besides you not being satisfied with it not coming from somewhere?
Quote from: "Eve"Then I have my last question. And this is about WILL.
What is responsible or creates in me(piece of meat with bones) STRONG WILL.
Let's say me(piece of meat with bones) craves for pleasure. Pleasure is ALWAYS a good thing for the body(physical body). It creates positive emotions.. Then what does create in me(piece of meat with bones) STRENGTH TO CONTROL this craving for pleasure(which is GOOD for me-piece of meat with bones?
Being able to control your instincts is also valuable for survival, and therefore, reproduction. It's not so much will as some kind of force, but an ability to prioritize different desires. For example, I may calculate that I'll be better off tomorrow if I save some of my food from today instead of eating it all right now, but that does no good if I can't alter my behavior. Fortunately, very little of human behavior is pre-programmed. For most things we inherit the basic desires and aversions, and it's up to us to use our big brains to best advantage in achieving what we want and avoiding what we don't want.
Quote from: "Eve"Example. Piece of meat with bones wants to drink coffee/very strong craving. But piece of meat with bones believes in keeping law of God that prohibit using it. Piece of meat with bones has power to control its appetite.
Piece of meat with bones is easy to trick into thinking arbitrary rules are dictated by the creator of the universe instead of other pieces of meat with bones wanting to control it.
Quote from: "Eve"What is responsible in piece of meat with bones for control of appetite or craving?
They said: physical body is CRAVING but spirit is WILLING. If there is no such thing as spirit then what is responsible for WILLING AGAINST THE CRAVING?
Same answer as to most of your questions. Our brains. Controlling our behavior is what they're for.
Quote from: "Eve"CONCLUSION: question about piece of meat with bones
1)what is responsible for envy?
2)what is responsible for pride?
3)what is responsible for wishing more than it is needed?
4)what is responsible for controlling cravings/pleasures?
5)what is responsible for hope and faith?
1) living brain and endocrine system 2) living brain and endocrine system 3) living brain and endocrine system 4) living brain and endocrine system 5) living brain and endocrine system
Have you reconsidered leaving your brain out whenever you describe yourself as a piece of meat with bones yet? Do we need to explain the difference between you and a side of beef?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mykcob4"Eve in answer to your third question. That is also very easy. When you understand that every living creature has a need to survive in various forms (continuing the DNA and so forth) you understand that evolution drives everything. Envy, greed, and all emotions are just manifestations of survival and nothing more.
I can understand what you say.
And OK no more "why" questions. I had no idea atheists don't like "why" questions.
Atheists have no particular aversion to 'why' questions. Many adults have an aversion to childish, repetitive questions where the asker is being willfully obtuse.
Quote from: "Eve"So I will ask "what" question:
what is responsible in piece of meat with bones for envy, pride, humility, self-control, hope and faith? I know that I(piece of meat with bones) have all that.
A living brain with a functioning endocrine system. You know, a couple of really important things that differentiate a living animal from a piece of meat with bones?
Quote from: "Eve"But what if I tell you that I have personal relationship with God of this world? What if I tell you that I do not rely only on words of the Prophets or any other people? What if I tell you that I have my own testimony that God lives/that He is real? How can you tell me that I don't have my own relationship with Him?
Lots of people have a relationship with an imaginary friend, and ultimately we can't tell any of them for sure that they aren't in contact with anything real. We can only observe that if they are in contact with something real, it doesn't know anything they don't know.
Quote from: "Eve"I think I know the answer: there is no way you can do that. Agree?
I agree. We can't prove 100% that imaginary beings are imaginary, unless they are given a quality that would make them detectable if they were real. As long as you keep them invisible and intangible and audible only within the heads of the people who believe in them, we can't prove they're not real. We can't prove you don't have a special relationship with the God of this world. We can't prove squirrels don't report all your activities to your CIA handler by telepathy, either. We'll just have to muddle through life with that limitation.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"You don't know either. That's the difference between atheists and theist folks . When we don't know something , we say I don't know .
Yes, I know that.
But what if I say: " I know something from my PERSONAL experience? Does it mean it has to be a lie and not the truth?
I can tell you that I heard or saw something when I lived in Kiev and I was the only witness. I can not prove it to you but I KNOW what I saw or heard.
Don't believe everything you see and hear. Humans are too fallible to make reliance on their senses never deceiving them justifiable. The quality that might help you here is 'humility'. If you don't think you can be wrong, you lack it.
Many people have strange experiences. Sometimes all we can do, if we are honest with ourselves, is tack them on the 'not understood at this time' wall.
Quote from: "Eve"Let me respond to you this way:
Physical body doesn't need hope, faith, envy, self-control, pride, happiness, craving for something that is more than needed. There is NO NEED for this in order physical body to function properly and survive. Than it should be something else that is the source.
Let me respond to you in this way: A physical body absolutely needs those things to prosper, if it's a human body. ONLY a physical body would need those things to prosper. A spiritual body that doesn't need to breathe, eat, or drink doesn't need emotions and desires to get what it needs, because it doesn't need anything.
Quote from: "Eve"This something else SYMBOLICLY I will call "intelligence" or "spirit" or "person/god" that is inside of flesh and bones.
Or you could be less symbolic and call it a brain with a mind.
Quote from: "Eve"Scientist, for example, a large part of the mass that appears to be missing from the universe SUMBOLICLY call "dark matter".
I hope I spelled correctly "symbolicly"
They call it 'dark' because they can't see it. It's really not that symbolic. They have detected action, one explanation for which would be a lot of matter in the universe that we can't detect. Hence, 'dark matter'.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"Ha ha Eve this is fun ! Are you for real ? You really believe in this ? Or you are joking with us? :-D
Are you for real? You BELIEVE that there is life on our Earth only? Interesting belief. Waste infinite space and only this Earth has life. That's Ok you can BELIEVE this
Why do you feel the need to tell other people what they believe instead of asking them? You are almost certainly wrong in your guesses about what leo thinks about the possibility of alien life.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"Making sense you is worthless, though. Everything makes sense inside of your own mind, no matter how clinically insane you are. It's only through measuring whether it makes sense on a more objective level that you learn whether your question really means something.
Personal attack is not an argument.
Why don't you say: "I DON'T KNOW". I can accept this as an answer. As a matter of fact there is nothing wrong with this answer. I wonder what is the source of your pride?
I'm pretty sure plu was using the generic 'you', not talking about you, personally. I'll paraphrase:
Something that makes sense only to one person isn't very valuable. Everything makes sense to someone inside their own mind, even if they are insane. Comparing our experiences with each other and with measurable reality helps us know what is meaningful for everyone.
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "leo"I think it's very likely for life to exists in other planets
So, it is reasonable. It is reasonable to believe that God of this world is Alien /or Man Who lives on another planet.
It being reasonable to suspect that life may exist on other planets doesn't justify leaping to a claim that it is reasonable to believe aliens created life on our world. What makes it reasonable to believe that life may exist on other worlds is the proof of concept that life exists on at least one world, ours. What would make it reasonable to believe that aliens created life on this world would be evidence that aliens created life on this world.
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Eve Atheist aren't adverse to "why" questions. In fact we love "why" questions. What we dislike is disingenuine assinine questions like the ones that you have posed.
The fact is and are that you aren't interested in the truth or facts. You keep asking questions that have more than been answered. You want a particular outcome and it's never going to happen. Simply because what you want to be the truth and what the truth is are two very different things.
Why do people have minds?
Why do they have wants and desires?
Why do they wish to be happy?
These questions and the others that you've asked are nothing more than distractions. They aren't seeking truth.
I have explained in great detail the purpose for the brain (the mind), the purpose for emotion, the purposes for just about everything that you can think of. I have even described how they came to be through evolution, but you can't accept facts. You want the outcome to be much different. There is no end to your blantant stupidity. You can't debate because you have no facts. You use intelletual dishonesty and condescention as the hallmarks of your arguments. You've been evassive when confronted even confrontational. We have tried to be as accomodating as humanly possible. We have given you ample oppertunity to present your case. We have been forthcoming in presenting facts.
You don't live in reality.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "mauricio"Oh i absolutely do, you see when you crush that squishy bag of meat and bones (BMB), the BMB faith hope envy and pride, and whatever other abstract things that are only in the mind tend to fade away.
MIND!MIND!MIND! Finally we got to the word "MIND"!
You're the one who has been avoiding its use with your meat and bones fetish.
Quote from: "Eve"So, tell me please what exactly "mind" is? Is this part of BMB? is it that mysterious source of pride, hope and faith and envy, or source of the DESIRE to have happiness?
What is this organized from?
It is pretty clearly a form of brain activity. We can even watch different parts of our brains 'light up' on scanners when we think of different things.
As far as aliens go. There is almost certainly aliens out there. There is NO evidence what so ever that they have ever visted this planet, nor have any aliens ever been detected. Science is even having a hard time finding planets where aliens or life could actually live or even survive.
For you to just make up shit that gods actually live on another planet, to make up crap that these gods created us and made us gods, to just willy-nilly change the definition of terms to suit your agenda is not only incorrect and intellectually irresponsible, but childish.
If as you say that there is a god and he comes from a distant planet, PROVE IT! Don't just say it! For cryin' out loud grow up.
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QuoteAnd it is reasonable to believe that God Jehovah(Alien :-D ) created LIFE on this Earth.
No it isn't. It's reasonable to believe that life came about without any intelligent intervention, because that's where the evidence points. The only thing that points to any gods or aliens creating life are the books of people who are trying to scam you out of your money.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Quote from: "Eve"So, it is reasonable. It is reasonable to believe that God of this world is Alien /or Man Who lives on another planet.
It being reasonable to suspect that life may exist on other planets doesn't justify leaping to a claim that it is reasonable to believe aliens created life on our world.
I agree. I didn't make connection between the first and the second in my answer to leo. I sais that it is reasonable to believe that Alien/ Man form another planet/God created life.
Men always create life. You are walking proof.
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"What would make it reasonable to believe that aliens created life on this world would be evidence that aliens created life on this world.
You see, when you have evidence you don't need to believe. When you don't have evidence you may believe. And it is reasonable to believe that God Jehovah(Alien :-D ) created LIFE on this Earth.
It's clearly not reasonable to assume a god created life. It is highly UNREASONABLE and even irrational. Just because someone is alive and walking around isn't evidence that a god created them, in fact it's just plain stupid.
It's like saying there are two men. One alive and one next to him quite dead from a gunshot wound. Since the man alive has an apple, it is reasonable to assume the live man shot the other man with the apple. That is the kind of fucked logic that you propose.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Quote from: "Eve"Are you for real? You BELIEVE that there is life on our Earth only? Interesting belief. Waste infinite space and only this Earth has life. That's Ok you can BELIEVE this
Why do you feel the need to tell other people what they believe instead of asking them?
I asked. See above. And then ADDED in case if his answer is "yes" that it is interesting belief and that it is OK to believe this.
Are you for real? You BELIEVE you were asking instead of telling? That's OK, you can BELIEVE that.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"Quote from: "Eve"So, it is reasonable. It is reasonable to believe that God of this world is Alien /or Man Who lives on another planet.
It being reasonable to suspect that life may exist on other planets doesn't justify leaping to a claim that it is reasonable to believe aliens created life on our world.
I agree. I didn't make connection between the first and the second in my answer to leo. I sais that it is reasonable to believe that Alien/ Man form another planet/God created life.[/quoted]
Asserted without evidence, no reason not to dismiss it.
Quote from: "Eve"Men always create life. You are walking proof.
Living organisms reproduce. It's pretty much their defining trait. No humans needed to explain it.
Quote from: "Eve"You see, when you have evidence you don't need to believe. When you don't have evidence you may believe. And it is reasonable to believe that God Jehovah(Alien :-D ) created LIFE on this Earth.
You can believe anything you want. It takes evidence to make belief reasonable.
Eve if you really have evidence of your space gods , your nude pics or it don't happen. I hope you are a very hot girl. If you are a dude forget about it . :-D
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Until you define "real feelings" you question remains meaningless. We've already explained the basic workings of the brain. You are either talking about something that doesn't exist or something that you are for some reason refusing to define to the point where the question becomes answerable.
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There's a lot of non-sequitors there. For starters, you are assuming that the earth creates humans, which isn't true. Humans create additional humans. For second, you assume that beauty is an objective thing, when it isn't, so a beautiful forest is just something we say, not something that really is. It's just trees. Thirdly, trees also aren't created by the earth, trees grow from other trees. None of these things are what we call "skills", therefor your entire argument doesn't make sense.
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QuoteIf humans create humans who created FIRST human?
The fact that you ask this question shows that you do not understand evolution in the slightest and should really consider brushing up on what should be basic knowledge.
QuoteTo create something is a skill to me.
I guess pooping is a skill now :rollin:
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: Holy Shit! :lol: Eve, explain how there are poodles, God didn't make them. :-k Solitary
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Solitary":rollin: :rollin: :rollin: Holy Shit! :lol: Eve, explain how there are poodles, God didn't make them. :-k Solitary
Everybody knows that :-D
Oh! First poodle was not created by a poodle. And it was not created by a piece of physical matter without intelligence. :-D
Right, the first poodle was created by an intelligent man just like the first god. Intelligent men with imaginations and without common sense, but irrational feelings and emotions to create in their minds gods or God, just like you do with your illogical, irrational, primitive and Neanderthal thinking . :P :lol: Solitary
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Poop is organized now? :roll: Solitary
QuoteWho did create that first thing that evolve to human? and what proof do you have of that?
Look up Abiogenesis. It's the study of how inorganic tissue can turn into simple life. After that, start brushing up on the Evolution thing to get the rest.
A seed composed of organic chemicals by any definition of life is not alive, but it can be with the right conditions. You can explain that without a God. What is God made of by the way? Where did He get His intelligence from? :lol: Solitary
Eve you keep saying that you accept my answers but you really don't because you move onto other people and ask the same question. I explained how evolution works and how the Earth was created. I even explained the basic reason for all emotions and feeling, but you keep harping on about them as if the question hasn't been answered. Now your on about "skill" as if that will change the facts in your favor. It won't I assure you. What's next talent? There is nothing that you can say or do that will change the facts....NOTHING. You can't prove a god, and you certainly can't make a tangible connection between this ficticious god of yours and reality.
Quote from: "Eve"OK. Then what is in the brain responsible or creates real feelings as pride or envy. And what is in the brain responsible or creates real desire to have happiness or desire to have more than needed.
P.S. According to mauricio these desires and feelings are IN MY MIND not in piece of meat with bones(BMB).
According to you they are created by my brain(piece of meat). Correct?
What's that? You want more Doge memes?
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This is the worst introduction ever. The worst.
Quote from: "Plu"Until you define "real feelings" you question remains meaningless. We've already explained the basic workings of the brain. You are either talking about something that doesn't exist or something that you are for some reason refusing to define to the point where the question becomes answerable.
The problem is that she's smart enough to ask the question. But not smart enough to understand the answer.
It's a bit like a kid asking "Why is the sky blue?" And getting an answer like "Rayleigh scattering, short wavelengths get scattered more so blue light dominates the sky.".
It means nothing to the kid, because they've no idea what the atmosphere is made of, what light is made of or what a wavelength is. All they know is they look up when they are outside and it's blue.
Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"OK. Then what is in the brain responsible or creates real feelings as pride or envy. And what is in the brain responsible or creates real desire to have happiness or desire to have more than needed.
P.S. According to mauricio these desires and feelings are IN MY MIND not in piece of meat with bones(BMB).
According to you they are created by my brain(piece of meat). Correct?
What's that? You want more Doge memes?
[ Image (//http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/qt2omn3c9FA/hqdefault.jpg) ]
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[youtube:76qa41uu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q40LVzXME4A[/youtube:76qa41uu]
LOL you guys, these doge memes really need to stop........or not. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"You're the one who has been avoiding its use with your meat and bones fetish.
Of course. Nobody told me that I have mind. I was told that I am just a piece of physical matter.
Why would you need someone to tell you that you have a mind?
If someone here used the phrase 'just a piece of physical matter', I would be disappointed in them. You're a piece of physical matter with a metabolism, brain, and mind that makes you much more interesting than a piece of physical matter without those features. And speaking of physical matter, isn't that phrase a little redundant? What other kind of matter would you be made out of?
Quote from: "Eve"OK. Then what is in the brain responsible or creates real feelings as pride or envy. And what is in the brain responsible or creates real desire to have happiness or desire to have more than needed.
Side of Beef, the information is available to anyone who wants to learn. I'm not going to spoon feed you everything. Are you familar with the acronym JAQ?
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Mister Agenda"P.S. According to mauricio these desires and feelings are IN MY MIND not in piece of meat with bones(BMB).
According to you they are created by my brain(piece of meat). Correct?
Side of Beef, I don't need to look back over previous posts to be pretty sure you're misrepresenting mauricio's posts. There is no conflict between saying something is in your mind and saying it's in your brain. That's where your mind IS. It makes no sense to say you have something in your mind that's not also in your body.
Quote from: "Mister Agenda"You're a piece of physical matter with a metabolism, brain, and mind that makes you much more interesting than a piece of physical matter without those features.
I dunno, man, stars and galaxies interest me a lot more than the human body. :P
I'm sick of this moron Eve. We have been accomodating to the point of insanity. She is obviously a loser troll and needs to be banned. If she persist in these ridiculous childish questions she needs to be banned. Just like a court of law, "I object! Question asked and answered!" "Sustained, move on!"
:popcorn:
This thread is turning into the last person that gets eve to ask another question and then soundly beats her down with the answer wins.
Ok. Who's forcing mykcob4 to participate in this thread?
Quote from: "Jason78"Ok. Who's forcing mykcob4 to participate in this thread?
Me. I've taken mykcob4's childhood teddy-bear hostage and, unless he continues to answer inane questions, will let my sickly cat hump it.
Quote from: "mykcob4"This thread is turning into the last person that gets eve to ask another question and then soundly beats her down with the answer wins.
Yep. But this is fun . So who cares? I know you care but dude seriously chill out .
Wow . Eve last 10 days so far . Impressive . I say let her in the site several days and see how far this thread will go. Trolls always get banned in the end .
kudos to you mister agenda from all the years i have lurked this forum you are the best poster i have seen eloquently kicking butt. I love how you word your posts so clearly and keep your cool with extremely annoying people like this eve idiot. And how your turn their bullshit logic against them. =D>
She is one of the better trolls we have had. =D> :Hangman: :lol: Solitary
Quote from: "Jason78"Ok. Who's forcing mykcob4 to participate in this thread?
What a stupid statement. Who's forcing you to be a smarmy little worm. Same type of statement. Get it pal?
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "Jason78"Ok. Who's forcing mykcob4 to participate in this thread?
What a stupid statement. Who's forcing you to be a smarmy little worm. Same type of statement. Get it pal?
Pretty sure it was a joke, mate.
Quote from: "Harbinger"[ Image (//http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/581/251/5af.jpg) ]
:rollin: I laughed a little too hard at this just now. hahaha The amount of laughter was appropriate for the picture, but I hurt my lungs. :rollin:
Quote from: "Solitary"She is one of the better trolls we have had. =D> :Hangman: :lol: Solitary
Yeah. I think Eve started a new category of trolls and now there are two.
trolls like this (//http://talesofgrim.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/personal_trollface_hd.png)
And the new category that Eve started:
(//http://rantchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/trolls.jpg)
Maybe it's just me, but for me...
I would say it's actually pleasent having Eve around. 8-[ :-? :shock: :)
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "Solitary"She is one of the better trolls we have had. =D> :Hangman: :lol:Solitary
Yeah. I think Eve started a new category of trolls and now there are two.
trolls like this [ Image (//http://talesofgrim.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/personal_trollface_hd.png) ]
And the new category that Eve started:
[ Image (//http://rantchick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/trolls.jpg) ]
Maybe it's just me, but for me...
I would say it's actually pleasent having Eve around. 8-[ :-? :shock: :)
I Have to say that just now reading thru this entire thread, I've gotten a few good laughs! Did you guys miss where Eve stated that she used to be an atheist? I think that got the best laugh for me.
Quote from: "bericks999"Did you guys miss where Eve stated that she used to be an atheist? I think that got the best laugh for me.
I did miss that. Where was it?
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What is scientific atheism?
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Plu"QuoteWho did create that first thing that evolve to human? and what proof do you have of that?
Look up Abiogenesis. It's the study of how inorganic tissue can turn into simple life. After that, start brushing up on the Evolution thing to get the rest.
Dear Plu, how does this fact prove that the thing that became a human was inorganic tissue? How do you CONNECT two? :-?
Do you class atoms as organic?
'Organic' is a matter of perspective. We are made of stardust, nothing more. That's it.
Really, given the time scales involved, abiogenesis and the resulting evolution of 'organic' matter is not surprising or unlikely.
The sequential order of atoms is what differentiates organic for inorganic. Again, concerning the time scales (billions and billions of years), the whole argument of 'it couldn't happen becuase its so unlikely' falls flat on its face.
:-|
I'll take your word for it. Seems odd as atheism has nothing to do with science.
:-|
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Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"Quote from: "Eve"Dear Plu, how does this fact prove that the thing that became a human was inorganic tissue? How do you CONNECT two? :-?
Do you class atoms as organic?
I wouldn't but I may be wrong.
Quote from: "Harbinger"'Organic' is a matter of perspective. We are made of stardust, nothing more. That's it.
I disagree. I am not just stardust. I am stardust that has mind.
Quote from: "Harbinger"Really, given the time scales involved, abiogenesis and the resulting evolution of 'organic' matter is not surprising or unlikely.
The sequential order of atoms is what differentiates organic for inorganic. Again, concerning the time scales (billions and billions of years), the whole argument of 'it couldn't happen becuase its so unlikely' falls flat on its face.
"Stardust and nothing more" is not the same as "stardust that has mind".
Yes it is. That's exactly what it is, and if you don't understand that you're missing the point.
You'd be both right and wrong if you said atoms are organic, becuase, like I said, it's all to do with the arrangement. You can't disagree with that.
You argue on semantics, not on facts. The fact is, you are entirely stardust which is only here becuase of a supanova that occured over 4.5 billion years ago which birthed our sun Sol and the star system around we call the Solar system. That you have a brain that has the chemical ability to process that information is a consequence of that.
Throughout this thread you have disregarded any post that has explained 'mind' to you (and by 'mind' I presume you mean your usual mantra of emotions, feelings, wants and desires), including mine. The reality of the situation is that we understand what constitutes us, emotions, and the chemical processes that formulates them pretty damn well. Same for evolution, which is a fact of reality with so much evidence behind it it is delusional to dismiss it.
Quote from: "Eve"I understand why my physical body(stardust) wishes all kinds of pleasures including food and water
But I am asking this: if I am just my physical body and nothing more then
why does my physical body has envy and pride? What organ or what elements in my body create pride and envy?
Why would my body create something that it doesn't need or what is bad for it? ]
You have had this answered so many times it'd be futile for me to respond any further,
You are not interested in an answer that differs to the conclusion you've already drawn .
Quote from: "Eve"I understand why my physical body(stardust) wishes all kinds of pleasures including food and water
But I am asking this: if I am just my physical body and nothing more then
why does my physical body has envy and pride? What organ or what elements in my body create pride and envy?
Why would my body create something that it doesn't need or what is bad for it? ]
Why do you have an appendix? It doesn't do anything and can kill you when it ruptures.
Quote from: "Eve"I understand why my physical body(stardust) wishes all kinds of pleasures including food and water
But I am asking this: if I am just my physical body and nothing more then
why does my physical body has envy and pride? What organ or what elements in my body create pride and envy?
Why would my body create something that it doesn't need or what is bad for it? ]
You could say that about the bible also. Why would holy scripture condone things for human kind that are bad for them?
"Oh my, for I am of feeling and have mind. How can stardust have mind?"
This is the kind of childish crap that we've dealing with for 31 odd pages of this thread.
The explainations have been there with ample proof for Eve to have recieved the equivalent of a substaintial education by now. The fact that she is just ignoring those facts is evident of her stupidity and lack of respect for facts.
She isn't Russian/Ukranian, was never an Atheist, an is wholeheartedly intellectually dishonest.
She could have been an atheist, remember atheist is just not believing in god, it does not mean you need a sound reason to not believe, she obviously did not understood (and still does not understand) science or skepticism though. Which could be easily fixed reading some Carl Sagan books and to understand the mind i recommend her to read Daniel Dennett.
Quote from: "mauricio"She could have been an atheist, remember atheist is just not believing in god, it does not mean you need a sound reason to not believe, she obviously did not understood (and still does not understand) science or skepticism though.
Doubtful! Her babbling reads like a televangelist handbook. I'm sure she was brainwashed from an early age and then rebrainwashed in a born again ceremony.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "bericks999"I Have to say that just now reading thru this entire thread, I've gotten a few good laughs! Did you guys miss where Eve stated that she used to be an atheist? I think that got the best laugh for me.
I was. There is nothing wrong with being an atheist in atheist society. I grew up in atheist society, I was taught by atheists. And one of my favorite subjects in school was scientific atheism.
Here's the thing Eve, everyone of your kind claims they were atheist before their god saw fit to reveal himself in some secret, mysterious way that can't be divulged becuase we wouldn't understand.
You see, we read directly through your sad attempt to secure sympathy or equal footing with us. It's ploy #24 in the christian trolls forum users conversion handbook!
I was waiting for the Amazing Grace line about bein lost, now found.. Yet another boring sing song.. :-|
Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "mauricio"She could have been an atheist, remember atheist is just not believing in god, it does not mean you need a sound reason to not believe, she obviously did not understood (and still does not understand) science or skepticism though.
Doubtful! Her babbling reads like a televangelist handbook. I'm sure she was brainwashed from an early age and then rebrainwashed in a born again ceremony.
Yeah, I say it's doubtful also. Once your faith goes lack, you don't usually go back.
Hey guys! I'm new here and I was wondering if somebody that is not new can clarify for me as to what the fuck is going on in here ?!?
What is this I don't even ...
Quote from: "Shol'va"Hey guys! I'm new here and I was wondering if somebody that is not new can clarify for me as to what the fuck is going on in here ?!?
Okay heres the rub.
New people start in the introduction section and introduce themselves.
Eve did so and explained that she was a god believer. She continued by spewing some cliche statments against gays. We started asking her to explain her beliefs and she went off on some weird tangant about her god lives on Kolob(a distant planet) but is not an alien. From there she has gone WAAAAY down hill. She started asking questions hoping for a contrived answer. Since those answers came but not what she hoped for, she is just making up weird shit that makes even less sense than a god.
She is a troll and our most recent chew toy. We are having fun painting her into corner after corner just to see how wacked out she can get before she gets banned.
Quote from: "Shol'va"Hey guys! I'm new here and I was wondering if somebody that is not new can clarify for me as to what the fuck is going on in here ?!?
What is this I don't even ...
I'm just here for the free beer and porn.. :shock:
This is an atheist forum intro section where once again, a christian starts off in a condescending, psuedo-intellectual mode yet unbeknowest to them, even after 30 fucking pages, gets their ass handed to them!
Quote from: "bericks999"This is an atheist forum intro section where once again, a christian starts off in a condescending, psuedo-intellectual mode yet unbeknowest to them, even after 30 fucking pages, gets their ass handed to them!
Absolutely correct!
I am sorry I wanted to know.
The intended humor in my post was definitely lost in this type of communication.
It was meant as ... the entire sentence is read in a calm, collected tone up until the f-word when the tone becomes that of a person that has jost lost their mind with confusion.
Actually, I have a request. Is there a way to move this thread to a different section? I feel like it's taking away attention we could be giving new users. i really doubt that this thread is going to end any time soon unless she is banned (which I also doubt is going to happen due to her pleasant-ness)
(//http://i.imgur.com/t9roudk.jpg)
Quote from: "Solitary"[ Image (//http://i.imgur.com/t9roudk.jpg) ]
:lol: =D>
Quote from: "Solitary"[ Image (//http://i.imgur.com/t9roudk.jpg) ]
:lol: :rollin:
Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"Quote from: "Shol'va"Hey guys! I'm new here and I was wondering if somebody that is not new can clarify for me as to what the fuck is going on in here ?!?
What is this I don't even ...
I'm just here for the free beer and porn.. :shock:
I want my Eve nude pics . :twisted:
Quote from: "leo"I want my Eve nude pics . :twisted:
Be careful what you wish for.
Quote from: "Jason78"Quote from: "leo"I want my Eve nude pics . :twisted:
Be careful what you wish for.
Well I say to her if she is a guy or shemale forget about it .
So then your good with the pics of Eve if she`s an 85 year old female?
You asked for it, so here: (//http://i.imgur.com/uoYjVsQ.jpg)
(//http://i.imgur.com/p75gRiO.jpg)
(//http://i.imgur.com/NNSReQs.jpg) Sort of disappointing isn't? :lol: Solitary
Quote from: "bericks999"So then your good with the pics of Eve if she`s an 85 year old female?
I forgot about that . I'm not in to grannies either. :)
Quote from: "Solitary"You asked for it, so here: [ Image (//http://i.imgur.com/uoYjVsQ.jpg) ]
[ Image (//http://i.imgur.com/p75gRiO.jpg) ]
[ Image (//http://i.imgur.com/NNSReQs.jpg) ] Sort of disappointing isn't? :lol: Solitary
I was expecting Eve to look like Eva angelina atleast . At worst like Lisa Ann. :lol:
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
Neurochemicals; I see Eve doesn't like the answer because it doesn't conform to her very narrow mindset.
:-|
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
Neurochemicals; I see Eve doesn't like the answer because it doesn't conform to her very narrow mindset.
Oh! I LOVE this answer. Where can I read about how neurochemicals create PRIDE and ENVY.
books, read them.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
Neurochemicals; I see Eve doesn't like the answer because it doesn't conform to her very narrow mindset.
Oh! I LOVE this answer. Where can I read about how neurochemicals create PRIDE and ENVY.
A magical thing called "The Internet". //http://lmgtfy.com/?q=neurochemicals
Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
What's wrong with you?
Basically, Eve's argument is the old p-zombie argument, and it makes the same basic error: that a person and a p-zombie are different, even if they are indistinguishable by physical means. It must assume that feelings, consciousness, mind, sentience, whatever you want to call it, are fundamentally non-physical from the outset, and as such it assumes its own conclusion. On the other hand, we physicalists posit that the mind and all of its qualia, emotions, and such, are a function of the brain, either because it is an essential part of its operation, or a by-product.
So I put to Eve the same question I ask all people pushing the p-zombie argument: How do you know that you are not a p-zombie?
Eve is NOT a p-zombie?!??! who would have thunk... :Hangman:
Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
You are the only one that doesn't have any idea about the facts. The facts have been presented to you over and over. You just refuse to learn, read or be educated.
33 pages.......... :Hangman: :rolleyes:
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"33 pages.......... :Hangman: :rolleyes:
Meh. Old Seer made it to 34. Then again, Old Seer never left his intro thread much.
Eve, if we have a mind or soul (What is the soul?) that is separate from the body that makes us who we are. How is it possible to loose consciousness for any reason. If the soul is our essence then it can't be destroyed, but then it wouldn't be who we are but only what makes us exist. We are more than the sum of our parts, but without the parts arranged in the proper order we don't exist and are just energy that can never be created nor destroyed. No God needed for this unless God is energy, but this would be a god like non that have existed, or God that you claim exists, and It sure wouldn't be intelligent without a brain. Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Icarus"Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
Neurochemicals; I see Eve doesn't like the answer because it doesn't conform to her very narrow mindset.
Oh! I LOVE this answer. Where can I read about how neurochemicals create PRIDE and ENVY.
Take a university course in neurology and you can get to play with them as well!
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"33 pages.......... :Hangman: :rolleyes:
She knows nobody in this site will buy her bullshit. I think she is trolling for fun. We are having fun also . We are even. She will be banned when we get bored of her :popcorn: bullshit.
Quote from: "Hijiri Byakuren"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"33 pages.......... :Hangman: :rolleyes:
Meh. Old Seer made it to 34. Then again, Old Seer never left his intro thread much.
What if Eve is Old Seer in disguise?
(//http://i.imgur.com/K3oO8iH.jpg)
Quote from: "leo"Quote from: "PickelledEggs"33 pages.......... :Hangman: :rolleyes:
She knows nobody in this site will buy her bullshit. I think she is trolling for fun. We are having fun also . We are even. She will be banned when we get bored of her :popcorn: bullshit.
We've given her like 7 different threads to troll on. She pretends to be nice on some of them to start then teurns into the witch we all know her to really be. I think that she thinks that she is going to have fun but when she actually gets into it it all goes very bad for her.
I think that she leaves and either goes to a site that welcomes her fucked up politics and her fucked up religiousity and bolstered by that she comes back thinking that things have changed....it never does.
I think that she actually came to this site to complain about Obama and be as racist as she possibly could be. It's an odd paradox that she and all like her don't want to be known as racist but love to spew racist gibberish. It's like Michelle Bachman who wants to be known as a kind person but spews hate with everything that comes out of her mouth. If you call them on their bullshit they try to turn the tables on you and call you what they really are.
:popcorn: Solitary
Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
Let me flip it on you since you've been told it's all just neurochemicals.
Where's your evidence that a god creates emotions like envy or pride? These are traits of sentient beings that evolved, there is no evidence of creation.
I know for a fact that when my dodgy adrenal glands produce far too much epinephrine I get angry.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"What is scientific atheism?
It is a "science" that soviet atheists created to brainwash people.
Scientific atheism telling about all religions and than disproves all of them in great details. That was very interesting to me. So I didn't even feel bad to be forced to buy books "Scietific atheism"
Yah, state-promoted atheism is not really an improvement over state-backed religion. I'd rather someone be a theist than be an atheist for the wrong reasons. Hundreds of millions of people are atheists basically because they grew up in regimes that favored atheism rather than because they were skeptics. They probably make up the majority of atheists in the world.
Quote from: "Eve"Quote from: "Harbinger"'Organic' is a matter of perspective. We are made of stardust, nothing more. That's it.
I disagree. I am not just stardust. I am stardust that has mind.
Quote from: "Harbinger"Really, given the time scales involved, abiogenesis and the resulting evolution of 'organic' matter is not surprising or unlikely. The sequential order of atoms is what differentiates organic for inorganic. Again, concerning the time scales (billions and billions of years), the whole argument of 'it couldn't happen becuase its so unlikely' falls flat on its face.
"Stardust and nothing more" is not the same as "stardust that has mind".
Eve, you are made only of stardust. That does not in any way contradict you having a mind. The 'and nothing more' of Harbinger's statement was solely in regard to your physical composition.
Quote from: "PickelledEggs"Quote from: "mykcob4"Quote from: "mauricio"She could have been an atheist, remember atheist is just not believing in god, it does not mean you need a sound reason to not believe, she obviously did not understood (and still does not understand) science or skepticism though.
Doubtful! Her babbling reads like a televangelist handbook. I'm sure she was brainwashed from an early age and then rebrainwashed in a born again ceremony.
Yeah, I say it's doubtful also. Once your faith goes lack, you don't usually go back.
I think someone who is godless simply because they were not indoctrinated into a religion, which is the case for many people in the former Soviet Union, is more susceptible to being indoctrinated later in life than someone who has been through the process of thinking their way out of a religion. It's skepticism that innoculates you against religion and if you don't have that, you're susceptible.
Quote from: "Eve"So, I see. Atheists have no idea what creates envy and pride in physical body. I think it makes no sense to ask them any more this question.
It certainly doesn't make sense to ask questions to which you'll ignore the answers.
:-|
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Quote from: "Eve":-|
Didn't you leave?
:-|
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Quote from: "Eve":-|
Eve seriously what's the point of your trolling ? For fun only ?
Eve,
Can you explain why it is that you deleted many of you posts? Is it because your embarrassed of them?
Uh oh, post deletions. I think we're swirling the drain here. :axe
Eve has over 500 posts. That is a lot of edits to change from whatever she typed to
Quote:-|
Quote from: "Eve":-|
Thanks for the implied concession speech and proving you can't counter anything we say.
Quote from: "The Non Prophet"Quote from: "Eve":-|
Thanks for the implied concession speech and proving you can't counter anything we say.
Well, say what you want, but that is the most sense she's made since joining the forum.
Privet, Eve. Kak Dela? I hope you find what you are looking for in your faith. I do not have a problem with religion itself. I just can't quite force myself to believe it. In any case, I have been influenced by sociobiology and believe religion is hard-wired into most human brains by evolution. It has been my experience that many, but not all, people who call themselves atheists often let religion in through the back door.
Quote from: "vacillating"believe religion is hard-wired into most human brains by evolution. .
Interesting....animism..totemism...shamanism..deism....so many different ideas of religion, some may say those 4 are so different that they cannot possibly be considered as related. How exactly does religion get hard-wired when many cultures don't even have a religion (such as a god)?
Quote from: "aitm"Quote from: "vacillating"believe religion is hard-wired into most human brains by evolution. .
Interesting....animism..totemism...shamanism..deism....so many different ideas of religion, some may say those 4 are so different that they cannot possibly be considered as related. How exactly does religion get hard-wired when many cultures don't even have a religion (such as a god)?
Religion is a specific belief, like Catholicism. Christianity is a religion only considering the parts that are common to all sects. No one is born Christian, Muslim or anything else. A person of Arabic descent that is born into a family that converted to Christianity in another country is not born Muslim. We are born without belief. It is taught or driven into us.