Christian God=the evil doer.

[Mike Cl]

Not necessarily (though I do wonder about the people eager to mete out punishment on behalf of God)

People who believe these stories are typically the products of childhood indoctrination which is then reinforced by society as a whole.  If I was told as an infant that the moon's craters are dragon nests and everyone that I had ever met believed the same, I would likely also hold that view.  Especially if disbelief results in shunning or worse.

Yeah, I agree that many are exposed to religion from birth.  And some come to it late.  But those who embrace it must have an inkling of what the OT god did and does and why.  But maybe not.  Consider this saying--'There but for the grace of God, go I!'  In my church going days, I heard that a bunch and even said it.  And I thought I was showing humility by saying it.  But think about it--what I was saying was god favors me and not you.  The point I'm trying to make is that for some reason one day I thought about it.  And it just underlined my thoughts that religion really is immoral.  It allows us to condone what god does, not matter what it is.  The world can't be just happenstance--it must be planned and guided by god's hand.  If one believes that, then one buys into the evil god does as being okay, part of the landscape.  So, those who embrace god with blind faith don't want to see the evil and I guess that is why it is blind faith.  Reason doesn't enter into it.  But if it does, then god is then seen for the evil it is. 

Too bad the reasoning process is different for each of us.  And too bad that reasoning is beyond the capacity of many.

[Baruch]

Religion is a social institution.  Social institutions divide people first into outsiders and insiders.  And assign goodness to the insiders, and badness to the outsiders.  And not being paranoid enough, assign certain insiders to a Fifth Column ... the people who appear to be good but are not.  Outsiders don't require even that much cogitation.  We see this in operation at Atheistforums.com ;-)

[Munch]

I've often wondered if the reason why so many people believe in what the bible touts is because of the way its written, coming off with aggressive lines and phrases like "Thou" and "thus" and "saith the LORD". Its all so pantomime as talking in a manner that doesn't fit in any other way except the illusion of some pretense of superiority, kind of like how Thor speaks in the comics.

[stromboli]

Don't know if you thought about it, but a lot of our language comes from the King James Bible. English started out as Anglo Saxon and in the course of change over 6 centuries was added to by various influences. But King James' bible happened to fit nicely into Britain's expansion into several countries, taking language and religion with it. So regardless of whether you were Church of England or not, there was a high chance it influenced your religion.

Most Christian sects recognize the King James bible, even though it was a considerable alteration from previous bibles. Such is the power of conquest. Biblical translations are categorized as either before or after the KJV.

Btw, the "thou" and "thus" originated earlier, but because the language of that period was incorporated in the book, it spread with the bible as the British influence expanded. Much of the western world learned English from the book. English, already a compilation of other sources (Roman Latin, Anglo Saxon, Norse, influence of French from 100 years war and Norman conquest, Shakespeare- and so on.) What was contributed mostly was vocabulary; Norse and Shakespeare both contributed about 2,000 words, for example. Shakespeare also contributed catch phrases like "green eyed monster" "As you like it" "come what may"

Prior to the advance of science and new words that came into being (thank Robert Hooke and Isaac Newton, for example) the bible was what was read and where the use of language came from. A legitimate claim is that most of the settlers now born in the 13 colonies and onward got their education and language from King James. Religion and language go hand in hand. There is so much of KJV in our language that you literally can't say ten sentences and not at some point include a biblical term.

Interestingly, the internet is now the biggest contributor to the lexicon and is, after science and later foreign terms, more widespread than any other influence. Such is the power of the internet; it is also the primary factor in what is altering the language away from religious influences.

Sorry. This just happens to be in my area of expertise.

[Baruch]

PS - at one time, Anglophones might only have one book, and it was a King James.  If they had two books, the other book was Pilgrim's Progress.

[stromboli]

Pilgrim's Progress wasn't written until 1678. KJV in 1611. Given lag time on publishing and distribution any wide dissemination in America would not be until 1700. Foxe's book Of Martyrs was written in 1563 and was about martyred Protestants. I would suspect it would also be on  a list of potential reads.

[sdelsolray]

Very plausible. 

So, does that make a person who actually believes in this fiction an evil person????

I don't think a causal relationship could be found which would deem all persons who believe in this fiction are evil (whatever evil means).  However, I suspect there is relevant evidence which may lead one to reasonably conclude that certain persons (i.e., on a case by case basis) who believe in this fiction are evil (whatever evil means).

[sdelsolray]

We now are living in a Fallen world, in a Fallen state. The entire Universe is wearing out as a result of the Fall of Adam and Eve. The good news is that there is an escape through Christ for a bright and beautiful eternity.

Just not in any way you can demonstrate, Mr. "All I Do is Mere Assertions".

[Mike Cl]

I don't think a causal relationship could be found which would deem all persons who believe in this fiction are evil (whatever evil means).  However, I suspect there is relevant evidence which may lead one to reasonably conclude that certain persons (i.e., on a case by case basis) who believe in this fiction are evil (whatever evil means).

Yeah, that's true----what is evil is most likely in the eye of the beholder.  But I think one could make a list of the actions of the god of the babble and come up with a pretty good list of inclusive acts that one could label evil.  :)

[sdelsolray]

Yeah, that's true----what is evil is most likely in the eye of the beholder.  But I think one could make a list of the actions of the god of the babble and come up with a pretty good list of inclusive acts that one could label evil.  :)

I agree that certain conduct of the various fictional entities (supernatural or not) in the Bible, if taken as true for purposes of discussion, could be identified as evil.

[ApostateLois]

We now are living in a Fallen world, in a Fallen state. The entire Universe is wearing out as a result of the Fall of Adam and Eve. The good news is that there is an escape through Christ for a bright and beautiful eternity.

Well, that's nice, but it doesn't have anything to do with the original post, which lists only a few of the many passages where God commits evil, and sometimes even admits to it. When you add up all the times that God kills people, or threatens to kill them, or afflicts them with plagues, boils, invasion by their enemies, and sundry other curses, he does not come off looking like the sort of person you'd want to be friends with on Facebook.

Meanwhile, Satan gets nary a mention until the book of Chronicles (21:1), where HIS idea of high crime is to incite David to take census.

We then get no word of him until the book of Job-- and then, he is merely following Yahweh's orders,and is described as just another angel hanging about in heaven (probably bored out of his mind). He makes another brief appearance in Zechariah, accusing the prophet before God-- which is precisely his job, according to Hebrew teachings.

Other than that, it is always God doing the killing, bringing down fire from heaven, drowning the babies and children, afflicting people with plagues and illnesses, using threats of violence for the slightest infractions, expressing outrage and jealousy and anger, and just generally being utterly horrible. And when he doesn't feel like doing his own dirty work, he commands others to do it for him. Never do we see Satan doing any of this stuff. So how come HE gets the bad rap while God gets away with murder--literally?

[reasonist]

In the OT:   God: over 2 million culls       Satan: 10

[Baruch]

Jewish understanding of scripture, implied that they needed to justify G-d's actions, give apologetics for G-d, and polemics for who they thought were their enemies (and therefore G-d's enemies).  This puts teflon on the obviously glaring admissions in the Bible regarding G-d and evil.  For example in the popular understanding of the death of the first-born in Egypt, initially it would have been G-d personally killing the innocents ... but later the idea of an angel of Death arose, which is easily seen to be Satan .. and Satan was responsible for killing the innocents, but G-d was driving the getaway chariot of fire.

[reasonist]

Because the whole thing is irrational to begin with. A deity who is omni-everything exhibits perfectly human traits. A god that created the entire universe, billions of galaxies, solar systems, dark matter and what have you, is vengeful, jealous, vindictive and needs our adoration and submission. That shows clearly that this is a human invention, a god with human emotions.
We are supposed to love and fear the same entity, which is complete nonsense. We are created imperfect but are ordered to be perfect. We are told about free will and at the same time threatened with ETERNAL torture. We are burdened with a ridiculous 'sin' that was allegedly committed thousands of generations ago. Would an omni-benevolent god do this to his creation? It is an insult to our intelligence to propose such garbage.

[LittleNipper]

Because the whole thing is irrational to begin with. A deity who is omni-everything exhibits perfectly human traits. A god that created the entire universe, billions of galaxies, solar systems, dark matter and what have you, is vengeful, jealous, vindictive and needs our adoration and submission. That shows clearly that this is a human invention, a god with human emotions.
We are supposed to love and fear the same entity, which is complete nonsense. We are created imperfect but are ordered to be perfect. We are told about free will and at the same time threatened with ETERNAL torture. We are burdened with a ridiculous 'sin' that was allegedly committed thousands of generations ago. Would an omni-benevolent god do this to his creation? It is an insult to our intelligence to propose such garbage.

God doesn't need anything! The issue is that we have to be like God to be able to exist in His presence. This was thrown away when man chose to do his own thing. Those who reject God are relegating themselves to hell. God has designed a way for fallen man to come back to God. God needed to do this Himself. You see God being fond or hurting people. I see God wanting not to have people hurt.