The Refugee Crisis

[drunkenshoe]

Shoe, your avatars are getting more and more disturbing.

I get this one might make you eww, but how is that my other avatars were disturbing?

[josephpalazzo]

You explained the general western perspective perfectly. Roman Empire invaded far more than it was invaded, took the land and enslaved the people. Like all other empires.

The result of empires is war, refugees...etc. This is a balance.

Nope, Roman Empire brought civilization to the rest of the world.

[pr126]

http://youtu.be/ExWfh6sGyso

[josephpalazzo]

Love those Monty Python skits

[jonb]

Funny, but not true.

aqueduct
Mesopotamia

sanitation
India

roads
Very old not a Roman invention, Romans did resurface some of the Celtic road system.

education
The Romans had no coherent education system and closed many Greek centres of learning.

irrigation
Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, many places.

medicine
Totally relent on Greek learning.

wine
Probably discovered in Georgia

public baths
Greece,
Interestingly the Romans thought the use of Soap by the Celts was dirty, so scraped dirt off the body with knives.

keep order
No evidence of difference to any other state.

public health
No policies whatsoever.

piece
Once uprisings and civil wars are taken into account there is no evidence than to be within the Roman empire was more or less peaceful than anywhere else.

So why is it that the Romans are presumed to be an advanced society in the popular imagination? The answer probably has to do with the Roman church needing to propagate ideas of its importance in history. And then Later European empires needing to claim inheritance from somewhere to blaster their legitimacy.

[josephpalazzo]

So why is it that the Romans are presumed to be an advanced society in the popular imagination?

As you have pointed from your listing, they brought together the best from the different regions they've conquered. It was by far not a perfect civilization, as no civilization is perfect, but while you look at the negatives, I look at the positives. To each his own.

[jonb]

Yes the Romans took because their system was incapable of invention, and without any sort of education system they slowly forgot how what they took worked.
What is said to be the dark ages actually happened during the Roman period where during the period of the Empire, the Romans lost the abilities to make or do anything, and in western Europe power changed to the more technologically advanced peoples of the north who started the process of rebuilding.

[Baruch]

As you have pointed from your listing, they brought together the best from the different regions they've conquered. It was by far not a perfect civilization, as no civilization is perfect, but while you look at the negatives, I look at the positives. To each his own.

I like the positives too, but I am prejudiced.  I like Italians and Italian Americans.  Liked them so much I married one ;-)  The Classical civilizations are called classical because they are "classic".

Jonb ... yes, the Romans were villains too ... like making poor Brian decline Latin verbs all night, when all he wanted to do was a spot of vandalism propaganda.  Education wasn't always valued ... and this had long term consequences.  Latin boys got taken to school by a pedagogue ... a slave who made sure you didn't play hooky.  The Latin word for play and school, gives us the idea of play-school ... and the Latin dislike for anything not physical or dramatic (Greeks and Romans got A's in those subjects).  The pedagogue and the private teacher (there were no public schools) were authorized to beat the students like Irish nuns used to do to Irish kids.  Can anyone blame them wanting to be somewhere else?

And a shoutout for my Irish ancestors ... yes, they did save Western civilization, even though the Italians (not Romans anymore) got the credit.

And if I have to edit this post even one more time, I will "incidere manibus" in the tub like a good Jewish Roman, before the Emperor orders me to ;-)

[josephpalazzo]

Yes the Romans took because their system was incapable of invention, and without any sort of education system they slowly forgot how what they took worked.
What is said to be the dark ages actually happened during the Roman period where during the period of the Empire, the Romans lost the abilities to make or do anything, and in western Europe power changed to the more technologically advanced peoples of the north who started the process of rebuilding.

I read history different than you: the Roman Empire did NOT fall to more technologically advanced peoples, they were barbarians roaming throughout Europe. In terms of knowledge and technology, it took Europe 1000 years to get back to where it was before the fall. 

[josephpalazzo]

I like the positives too, but I am prejudiced.  I like Italians and Italian Americans.  Liked them so much I married one ;-)  The Classical civilizations are called classical because they are "classic".

Funny that you've said that: I married a Jewish girl.

[Baruch]

Funny that you've said that: I married a Jewish girl.

See, proof of parallel universe theory ... we are two sides of the same coin ... bwahaha.  Jews and Catholics ... at least the cultural version if not the religious version, often go together.  It is an old old relationship.  The Protestants already think they are Latter Day Jews ;-)

[josephpalazzo]

See, proof of parallel universe theory ... we are two sides of the same coin ... bwahaha.  Jews and Catholics ... at least the cultural version if not the religious version, often go together.  It is an old old relationship.  The Protestants already think they are Latter Day Jews ;-)

I happen to dislike the MWI - it's a cop-out solution.

[Cocoa Beware]

I figure the Romans greatest achievement was city planning. They went with one template and mass produced it.

They built over 500 cities, all of which had more or less the same layout.

[Baruch]

Yes, and a great film for those unaware:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K7Yds8bWz4

[jonb]

I figure the Romans greatest achievement was city planning. They went with one template and mass produced it.

They built over 500 cities, all of which had more or less the same layout.

Is that a good thing? That a city is built without thought for its particular environment?
The forts on Hadrian's wall which were to act as gate houses are all set a standard distance apart.

This is a nice reconstruction. (Although there is a sweet bit of propaganda in it, that could not be true)

You can walk along most of the remains of the wall now and it is quite a nice walk.



There this though, if you do you may start to notice how many gatehouses are built on the top of cliffs or in other places where no path could get to, but if they were to have moved the fort a few hundred yards it would be just the right spot for a gate. But then that standardisation would be broken.

Why is it that empires require standardisation even over efficiency, and seem to hate diversity?

Because they are not about benefiting the people within them but about enforcing control even stupid bureaucratic idiocy they present as a good thing, 'its great its the same stupid everywhere'.

Voices of authority don't like questions about The Roman Empire, because that leads to questions about every Empire.