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abstract atheist
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 Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Why is it now? |
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As I (attempt to) do research in theoretical physics, some deeply disturbing thoughts emerge in my mind. There is one thing about time that I can't stop thinking about, and it doesn't even seem to be adressed by anybody. It's not about why there is a past and future. It's not about where the future comes from, and where the past is going. It's about why there is a present. There should not be a present. The chemical rections in my brain that generate consciousess were happening yesterday, so why am I not aware of yesterday? Hopefully they will be happening tomorrow, but why am I not aware of tomorrow? I am only aware of the present, regardless of the fact that the same chemical reactions that generate consciousness have been happening for 23 years (for me). There is something drastically wrong with physics. General relativity does not explain, why of all the moments in time, I am only aware of one. Quantum mechanics does not explain this either. Something is wrong here. I see a dynamic three dimensional world, but I should see a four dimensional blur.
_________________
MAN: Jesus, how do I get to heaven?
JESUS: Give up all of your knowledge, and follow me. For blessed are the ignorant, for theirs the kingdom of heaven.
MAN: But I like knowledge.
JESUS: But I prepared hell for people who ask question and think for themselves. You must blindly follow me with child like faith.
MAN: That sucks.
JESUS: Also, cut your penis off. I want to make sure you don't enjoy ANYTHING. It is better for a man to lose his penis, than have his whole body cast into hell. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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There is a spoon.
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GodWarrior98
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Because there is a speed limit to how fast your meager brain can process things.
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In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. -Paul Dirac
I am not a theist. The name is a lie. |
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Shiranu
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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The past is merely the present of a minute ago. If you had no present, you would have no past, or at least a past that continues to grow as we speak.
As for why you are not aware of the future... I dont believe events are set in stone, but to a small degree you CAN see in the future... you know you will get out of bed, kiss your wife, eat your cereal, go do the daily grind, come home, relax, and repeat.
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"I never really wanted you to see, The screwed up side of me that I keep...Locked inside of me so deep...It always seems to get to me. I never really wanted you to go, So many things you should have known. I guess for me there's just no hope, I never meant to be so cold..."
"Life feels quite like Hell should, but this Hells so cold...Pull another knife out, stick it with rest of them... when my back is full, turn me around to face it." Trivium |
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Tormentor
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ah but, time merely exists as a vehicle of growth. Without it we would all stand still. Every moment is the present forever. |
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HxC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| time is just the illusion that everything isn't happening at the same time. |
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Eyedunno
The Great JuJu at the Bottom of the Sea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| HxC wrote: | | time is just the illusion that everything isn't happening at the same time. |
You mean the illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Why is it now? |
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| abstract atheist wrote: | | As I (attempt to) do research in theoretical physics, some deeply disturbing thoughts emerge in my mind. There is one thing about time that I can't stop thinking about, and it doesn't even seem to be adressed by anybody. It's not about why there is a past and future. It's not about where the future comes from, and where the past is going. It's about why there is a present. There should not be a present. The chemical rections in my brain that generate consciousess were happening yesterday, so why am I not aware of yesterday? Hopefully they will be happening tomorrow, but why am I not aware of tomorrow? I am only aware of the present, regardless of the fact that the same chemical reactions that generate consciousness have been happening for 23 years (for me). There is something drastically wrong with physics. General relativity does not explain, why of all the moments in time, I am only aware of one. Quantum mechanics does not explain this either. Something is wrong here. I see a dynamic three dimensional world, but I should see a four dimensional blur. |
Time is like a river flowing. Think of a camera filming the river. The present is just one moment which you freeze. However, in real "time", the river never stops flowing.
Now, your mind is like that camera filming the river flowing, and your consciousness is the guy who's stop-freezing to reflect upon a moment.
Hope I haven't confused you with that...  |
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coloringzebras
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Joined: 28 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Eyedunno wrote: | | HxC wrote: | | time is just the illusion that everything isn't happening at the same time. |
You mean the illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same illusion that everything isn't happening at the same |
nice.
OP:
to me there is not a present at all because when you say "there - - -" it's already the past. |
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abstract atheist
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| coloringzebras wrote: |
to me there is not a present at all because when you say "there - - -" it's already the past. |
The present is what we are aware of. At any rate, to me the paradox is that the same physical processes which make me aware of the present were occuring yesterday. So why am I not aware of yesterday?
_________________
MAN: Jesus, how do I get to heaven?
JESUS: Give up all of your knowledge, and follow me. For blessed are the ignorant, for theirs the kingdom of heaven.
MAN: But I like knowledge.
JESUS: But I prepared hell for people who ask question and think for themselves. You must blindly follow me with child like faith.
MAN: That sucks.
JESUS: Also, cut your penis off. I want to make sure you don't enjoy ANYTHING. It is better for a man to lose his penis, than have his whole body cast into hell. |
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Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Mmm.. delicious arrow of time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time
* 3.1 The thermodynamic arrow of time
* 3.2 The cosmological arrow of time
* 3.3 The radiative arrow of time
* 3.4 The causal arrow of time
* 3.5 The particle physics (weak) arrow of time
* 3.6 The quantum arrow of time
* 3.7 The psychological/perceptual arrow of time
pick a flavor that matches your mood.. lol..
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Or the theory that time and motion are two sides of the same coin... |
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abstract atheist
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Why is it now? |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: |
Time is like a river flowing. Think of a camera filming the river. The present is just one moment which you freeze. However, in real "time", the river never stops flowing.
Now, your mind is like that camera filming the river flowing, and your consciousness is the guy who's stop-freezing to reflect upon a moment. |
Can you give a general relativistic version of this? And are you sure this doesn't lead to an infinite regression of time lines? I mean, the guy that is reflecting upon the moment (in your analogy) is doing it in a time that is outside of the time defined by the river. If you apply the river analogy to this timeline, you get a second guy refleting upon the first guy regflecting upon a moment. But this second guy is doing this in his own time line, which means we need a third guy to reflect upon the second guy reflecting upon the first guy reflecting upon the moment. Obviously this can be continued forever. I know this has troubled philosophers and scientists for thousands of years, but I expect someone on this forum to solve it and post the solution.
_________________
MAN: Jesus, how do I get to heaven?
JESUS: Give up all of your knowledge, and follow me. For blessed are the ignorant, for theirs the kingdom of heaven.
MAN: But I like knowledge.
JESUS: But I prepared hell for people who ask question and think for themselves. You must blindly follow me with child like faith.
MAN: That sucks.
JESUS: Also, cut your penis off. I want to make sure you don't enjoy ANYTHING. It is better for a man to lose his penis, than have his whole body cast into hell. |
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Moloth
Fateless
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23105
Local time: 11:03 PM
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| josephpalazzo wrote: | | Or the theory that time and motion are two sides of the same coin... |
right-o... without one, there is no other.
OR... one is DEFINED by the other.
EDIT: fergot a werd.. durr...
_________________
-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total
Last edited by Moloth on Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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josephpalazzo
Illusion Master
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
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Local time: 11:03 PM
Location: D-brane
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Why is it now? |
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| abstract atheist wrote: | | josephpalazzo wrote: |
Time is like a river flowing. Think of a camera filming the river. The present is just one moment which you freeze. However, in real "time", the river never stops flowing.
Now, your mind is like that camera filming the river flowing, and your consciousness is the guy who's stop-freezing to reflect upon a moment. |
Can you give a general relativistic version of this? And are you sure this doesn't lead to an infinite regression of time lines? I mean, the guy that is reflecting upon the moment (in your analogy) is doing it in a time that is outside of the time defined by the river. If you apply the river analogy to this timeline, you get a second guy refleting upon the first guy regflecting upon a moment. But this second guy is doing this in his own time line, which means we need a third guy to reflect upon the second guy reflecting upon the first guy reflecting upon the moment. Obviously this can be continued forever. I know this has troubled philosophers and scientists for thousands of years, but I expect someone on this forum to solve it and post the solution. |
Well, if philosophers and scientists have been troubled for thousands of years, and they haven't solved it, I doubt that the members of this forum will!
But adding my two cents to the fray, I would say that when I look at the screen, which is the now, the image was really in the past, since light had to travel from my screen to my eyelid. So there is a continuous delay between what I see and what registers in my mind, and that time delay is miniscule, unless I'm looking at the stars. But so what? All living things have been living with this nano delay factor and have managed to survive.
My analogy of the flowing river is just that, an analogy. The guy is not outside the time defined by the river, but between what he sees and what is happening, there is that time delay. |
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