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Persuasion
Prodigal Atheist
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 1391
Local time: 1:04 PM
Location: Anarchistan, W.I.
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 Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Isambard wrote: | | Persuasion wrote: | | munky99999 wrote: | | kmisho wrote: | | My view of anarcho-capitalism is called REALITY, not some rose-colored theory designed by tax-dodgers and lazy hypocrites. |
anarcho-capitalism exists in REALITY?
I dunno I just seem to basically get what anarcho-capitalism entails and it seems to me that being a contract killer would be a legitimate form of occupation.
Do you disagree? |
A contract killer is someone who violates individuals rights by default. Anarcho-capitalists believe in using force only in self-defense. The contract killer would be the utmost aggressor. Further, murder would be illegal under the laws of anarcho-capitalist regions. If you are in doubt I recommend 'For a New Liberty"
Of course, there would be contract killer in any society, but in the society you referenced such persons would be restrained.For a New Liberty |
Would this not violate the free-market organization of the society? |
In anarcho-capitalism the so-called free market is not primary. The free market is the consequence of freedom. It is believed that capitalism is the system that is most efficient and consistent with the deontic ethics of anarcho-capitalism. Before one could have a free market at all, one must have private property rights and the protection of the same. For a contract killer to be able to kill someone they would have to trespass on the person's property, or they would have the violate the terms and conditions of property owners who own public spaces such as libraries, malls and parks. It would be bad business if property owners did not prohibit assaults on their property. Moreover, anarcho-capitalists believe that one has property in oneself. The act of killing someone whether it be for profit or psychic benefits is considered a violation of property rights.
Murray N. Rothbard once noted that "neither praxeological economics nor Mises’s utilitarian liberalism is sufficient to make the case for laissez faire and the free-market economy. To make such a case, one must go beyond economics and utilitarianism to establish an objective ethics which affirms the overriding value of liberty, and morally condemns all forms of statism, from egalitarianism to “the murder of redheads,” as well as such goals as the lust for power and the satisfaction of envy."
When anarcho-capitalist say they are for the free market they mean that they are for the rights that make the free market possible. The said rights are upheld by a polycentric law system that would be libertarian at its core. The legal system is supposed to resolve disputes and ascertain guilt of an accused as opposed to letting mob justice prevail. Mob justice with its attendant savagery and emotive oversights. |
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Ivan_Ivanov
Forum Master
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 4133
Local time: 7:04 PM
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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It's refreshing to see an opponent of an-cap that actually has an idea of what he's talkinng about...
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It is as though your species' brain is too small to hold a simple thought such as, WE WILL KILL YOU FOR DISOBEYING!
This is not a complex idea. |
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Tormentor
Forum Leader
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 573
Local time: 12:04 PM
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Why should killing ever be legal for any one, government or not?
To assume that anarcho-anything would result in personal attacks on other human beings is to miss the entire point we'd be trying it on anyways. |
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Gettin' In Tune
SUSPENDED - Pending Council Decision
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 3308
Local time: 12:04 PM
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| munky99999 wrote: | The evil coercive government with the gun steals my freedoms; restricts me from taking jobs that I want to take... calling them illegal or what have you.
I should have every right to be a contract killer. I could setup my contract killing company. I could then sell health insurance to people. Not in the normal idea of health insurance but rather simply protection from being killed by my company.
If my company is getting slow business. Which is unlikely. I should have every right to sell products which dont exist... using the influence and fear of contract killers to force people to buy them. For example I can sell something like a QRay bracelet which is just a piece of wire... and say that it makes you immune to bullets and that if you dont buy one we will show how allergic to bullets that they are. |
Why would I ever support you? If rational people condone this sort of behavior, then perhaps government is needed. It is analogous to people who need the bible to prevent kicking babies in the head. Some people need religion and government. Others are better off without it. |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 13721
Local time: 12:04 PM
Location: In heaven (everything is fine)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Why would I ever support you? |
Because you fathered him?
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| r_kamikaze wrote: | | Everytime I see you post I just wanna punch someone. |
| stromboli wrote: | | As always, you make meaningful and thoughtful contributions to the forum. |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 13721
Local time: 12:04 PM
Location: In heaven (everything is fine)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Ivan_Ivanov wrote: | | It's refreshing to see an opponent of an-cap that actually has an idea of what he's talkinng about... |
^^^^
This.
Thanks, Per, for the exposition, and thanks Ivan for acknowledging it. It helped me to (maybe, sorta) know that when I talk an-cap, I may be okay with understanding the issue.
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| r_kamikaze wrote: | | Everytime I see you post I just wanna punch someone. |
| stromboli wrote: | | As always, you make meaningful and thoughtful contributions to the forum. |
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Gettin' In Tune
SUSPENDED - Pending Council Decision
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 3308
Local time: 12:04 PM
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Why would I ever support you? |
Because you fathered him? |
Unlike Bush Sr., I practice responsible withdrawal. |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 13721
Local time: 12:04 PM
Location: In heaven (everything is fine)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Unlike Bush Sr., I practice responsible withdrawal. |
Even upon withdrawal... you can always leave a little screaming Maliki behind.
Kids - there's saf-er invasion. But there's never safe invasion.
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| r_kamikaze wrote: | | Everytime I see you post I just wanna punch someone. |
| stromboli wrote: | | As always, you make meaningful and thoughtful contributions to the forum. |
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Gettin' In Tune
SUSPENDED - Pending Council Decision
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 3308
Local time: 12:04 PM
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:45 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | Even upon withdrawal... you can always leave a little screaming Maliki behind. |
I have had my scares. There is always a chance that I can spawn a theist or a socialist. What can I do? Jesus was right in this regards; love the sinner, but not the sin. I can respect the theist and socialist, but not theism and socialism. |
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Philosophos
When we look at you, we see an asshole
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 13721
Local time: 12:04 PM
Location: In heaven (everything is fine)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| Gettin' In Tune wrote: | | Philosophos wrote: | | Even upon withdrawal... you can always leave a little screaming Maliki behind. |
I have had my scares. There is always a chance that I can spawn a theist or a socialist. What can I do? Jesus was right in this regards; love the sinner, but not the sin. I can respect the theist and socialist, but not theism and socialism. |
My... my goodness. You've understood the lulz.
You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I now have troll's remorse.
Good show.
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| r_kamikaze wrote: | | Everytime I see you post I just wanna punch someone. |
| stromboli wrote: | | As always, you make meaningful and thoughtful contributions to the forum. |
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Gettin' In Tune
SUSPENDED - Pending Council Decision
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 3308
Local time: 12:04 PM
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Why I am an Anarcho-Capitalist now. |
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| Philosophos wrote: | | You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. I now have troll's remorse. |
Whateva you say since you are trying to bait me with an old thread. |
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Knight_of_BAAWA
Jedi Slackmaster
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 10021
Local time: 11:04 AM
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Tormentor wrote: | | Why should killing ever be legal for any one, government or not? |
Self-defense?
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aa #51, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
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Jad
Visitor
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4
Local time: 12:04 PM
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| munky99999 wrote: |
Exactly. That's why Anarcho-capitalism is the best and must be made. |
Why wait for anarchy, join the army. They're a bit light on bracelet sales, heavy on shooting people--I'm sure they're open for suggestions, though.
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Shiranu
The I'Cie
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 9519
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Location: Die rückwärts-Bundesstaat Texas
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Knight_of_BAAWA wrote: | | Tormentor wrote: | | Why should killing ever be legal for any one, government or not? |
Self-defense? |
Intill reliable, non-leathal self-defence tools become widespread and reliable... /agreed.
Now, preimptive war and saying, "self defense!"... not so much...
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Can this be what we've become? Paper-thin, overweight, pills to arouse or sedate, still we don't know what we want.
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munky99999
Provisional moralist.
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 4671
Local time: 12:04 PM
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A contract killer is someone who violates individuals rights by default. Anarcho-capitalists believe in using force only in self-defense. The contract killer would be the utmost aggressor. Further, murder would be illegal under the laws of anarcho-capitalist regions. If you are in doubt I recommend 'For a New Liberty" |
So what government is the one enforcing these laws on me in your anarcho-capitalist region? Or do I simply have to target non-police insured people moreso?
| Quote: | | Of course, there would be contract killer in any society, but in the society you referenced such persons would be restrained.For a New Liberty |
restrained by who and under what authority?
| Quote: | | In anarcho-capitalism the so-called free market is not primary. The free market is the consequence of freedom. |
But you just said that I CANT be a contract killer. So you arent for a free market at all. What a terrible place to live.
| Quote: | | It is believed that capitalism is the system that is most efficient and consistent with the deontic ethics of anarcho-capitalism. Before one could have a free market at all, one must have private property rights and the protection of the same. |
Protected the same? So since there is no coercive government... I have no reason to pay any law enforcement agency any money. So these law enforcement agencies already are weaker then what they are NOW. Not to mention these agencies hold no authority over me. I can just get up and walk away from them no problem. I dont have to answer questions. Then again there's no due process in this system at all. So they can put me in jail for any reason at all really.
| Quote: | | For a contract killer to be able to kill someone they would have to trespass on the person's property, or they would have the violate the terms and conditions of property owners who own public spaces such as libraries, malls and parks. |
NO... Rifles can fire very accurately to 1.5km easily. So I can own land. Furthermore... WHAT THE HELL is this terms and conditions of property owners? Who is this nameless authority who enforces these things? Why are they being so coercive and deleterious to my property rights. Havent you realized how much money contract killers make? 1 hit can earn you enough money to buy enough spots in a city to cover virtually all areas of the city.
| Quote: | | It would be bad business if property owners did not prohibit assaults on their property. |
Contract killers are very very stupid if they ever even get close to their targets. So there is no ON THEIR PROPERTY.
| Quote: | | Moreover, anarcho-capitalists believe that one has property in oneself. The act of killing someone whether it be for profit or psychic benefits is considered a violation of property rights. |
psychic? Even then... there's no such thing in existence in anarchy that can GOVERN property rights. That would take a government. Anarchy is the destruction of all government lines. The real governments drop down to property owners. The rights become that of property owners. They make the rules/laws of their land. So neighbours start to essentially have to deal with their neighbours in the same manner as Canada would with the USA. Canada has absolutely no authority over laws and rules in the USA but they have some sway.
| Quote: | | When anarcho-capitalist say they are for the free market they mean that they are for the rights that make the free market possible. The said rights are upheld by a polycentric law system that would be libertarian at its core. The legal system is supposed to resolve disputes and ascertain guilt of an accused as opposed to letting mob justice prevail. Mob justice with its attendant savagery and emotive oversights. |
So lets say someone has this apartment building in downtown Toronto. They are selling it for $500,000 and I'm rich so I buy it. Everything is all through and done. It is my property. I'm a contract killer, rapist, and theif. You want to PAY me to behave. I buy land and then I say I disagree with ALL laws and you automatically have to start paying me because it would be a violation of my property laws to force me to leave. Let alone sell my property. Hmmm interesting. Man that would be awesome business. Just buy up land all over and just blatantly deny to follow these laws. You then pay me to behave. Oh and how much would be enough for me to follow the law? I might not accept not to rape anyone unless I'm being paid $1000 a week.
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A cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his fleshand drink his blood; while telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
You cant outsmart me; you can only outnumber me. |
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