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A_Atheist_named_Christian
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 Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Religious Persuasion FAQ
Section B - Thought Suppression Tools
Q: How do I stop my flock from coming up with better ideas than mine?
A: Make them think they can't(even though they can). |
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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Local time: 12:18 AM
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I don't believe in God myself but I'm going to answer the question anyways.
If there was one thing I could change about God and religion, it would be the deeply indoctrinated false assumption that all others do or should follow the same beliefs. I would make the entire world understand religion and God as a personal choice only. That would rid the world of zealots and especially of Evangelicals.
Were this the case instead of what is, there would be no more medusa-hair-red-bulging-eyes at the mention of atheists (nor the ridiculous assumption we have no morals or ethics), there would be no more hijacking of planes to fly into towers, no more need for groups that try to protect the separation of church and state, no more arguing against prayer or "meditation time" in schools, no more ID vs evolution......need I go on?
There is no need to get rid of God, people have the right to believe whatever they wish no matter how silly you deem it. (IMO it's ok to tell them it's silly in most circumstances, however harhar). There is a need to get rid of the assumptions the believer puts upon other human beings in the name of whichever God they pray to.
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romans120
Resident Theist
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Location: The God Shaped Hole in Your Heart
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | I don't believe in God myself but I'm going to answer the question anyways.
If there was one thing I could change about God and religion, it would be the deeply indoctrinated false assumption that all others do or should follow the same beliefs. I would make the entire world understand religion and God as a personal choice only. That would rid the world of zealots and especially of Evangelicals.
Were this the case instead of what is, there would be no more medusa-hair-red-bulging-eyes at the mention of atheists (nor the ridiculous assumption we have no morals or ethics), there would be no more hijacking of planes to fly into towers, no more need for groups that try to protect the separation of church and state, no more arguing against prayer or "meditation time" in schools, no more ID vs evolution......need I go on?
There is no need to get rid of God, people have the right to believe whatever they wish no matter how silly you deem it. (IMO it's ok to tell them it's silly in most circumstances, however harhar). There is a need to get rid of the assumptions the believer puts upon other human beings in the name of whichever God they pray to. |
You do realize that this would completely abolish any kind of science right? Is that still what you want?
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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What?
Why would it do that? Please explain. 
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romans120
Resident Theist
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | What?
Why would it do that? Please explain. |
You do realize religion and science both have the same goal - truth Since science depends upon prior truth claims in order to advance it must be based upon doctrine. The law of relativity is doctrine. When you are taught that law in school you are being indoctrinated into a belief system.
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For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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joshuas3521
Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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Local time: 12:18 AM
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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If there was one thing I could change, I would separate the dogma from the personal spirituality and morality.
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"What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job." --Carl Sagan
"In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." --Douglas Adams
In memory of George Carlin. May he rest in peace.
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JBCuzISaidSo
Jaded Humanist
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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Local time: 12:18 AM
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | What?
Why would it do that? Please explain. |
You do realize religion and science both have the same goal - truth Since science depends upon prior truth claims in order to advance it must be based upon doctrine. The law of relativity is doctrine. When you are taught that law in school you are being indoctrinated into a belief system. |
Okay, romans120, clearly you misread what it would be that I would change if I could. Quite all right.
But about your answer, truth is important indeed. There is, however, no line that can be drawn for truth between science and the supernatural idea of a creator.
The law of relativity is based on observable facts, experimentation on these empirical items, and theoretical conclusion based on those things. It isn't the only theory that could be the correct answer, but is the simplest theory that matches up the experimental data.
Here let me Wikipedia yo' ass, click me!
So to draw a similarity between God as truth and a scientific theory as similar indoctrination is a stretch, in my opinion. How can one say God to be a prior truth claim when God has no observable facts or yet-to-be-explained natural phenomena? I do understand what you mean about "doctrine" however.
Back to my post! My wish for God & religion's one change would not mean science itself would also be gone.
I'll give you an invisible, non-usable, electronic $90.00 bill if you can sum up what I actually meant in one sentence. Clock is set at 60 seconds. GO!
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Unbeliever
Forum Master
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Location: The exact center of my observable universe
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| tinker683 wrote: | | Most Christians I know have a very bad tendency of taking God and reshaping him into something that's convinent for them, which to me is massively hypocritical. |
Yeah, God, the divine Play-do! 
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"True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance."
Akhenaton?( c. B.P. 1575)
Science is a lighthouse,
Faith is the rocks below.
God Not Found - resources for atheist/agnostics
"the universe is under no obligation to be easy for us to comprehend."
moloth |
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romans120
Resident Theist
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Location: The God Shaped Hole in Your Heart
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | What?
Why would it do that? Please explain. |
You do realize religion and science both have the same goal - truth Since science depends upon prior truth claims in order to advance it must be based upon doctrine. The law of relativity is doctrine. When you are taught that law in school you are being indoctrinated into a belief system. |
Okay, romans120, clearly you misread what it would be that I would change if I could. Quite all right.
But about your answer, truth is important indeed. There is, however, no line that can be drawn for truth between science and the supernatural idea of a creator.
The law of relativity is based on observable facts, experimentation on these empirical items, and theoretical conclusion based on those things. It isn't the only theory that could be the correct answer, but is the simplest theory that matches up the experimental data.
Here let me Wikipedia yo' ass, click me!
So to draw a similarity between God as truth and a scientific theory as similar indoctrination is a stretch, in my opinion. How can one say God to be a prior truth claim when God has no observable facts or yet-to-be-explained natural phenomena? I do understand what you mean about "doctrine" however.
Back to my post! My wish for God & religion's one change would not mean science itself would also be gone.
I'll give you an invisible, non-usable, electronic $90.00 bill if you can sum up what I actually meant in one sentence. Clock is set at 60 seconds. GO! |
Summation - you want all people to keep there version of belief/truth to themselves and let everybody figure out their own freakin belief/truth
Einstien had to convince people to buy into his belief/theory of relativity thus were he not impelled or able to do that we would all have had to figure out relativity on our own (i.e no sucha thing as science)
_________________
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
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Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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wow... here we go again with the:
"zomg, science and religion are equals!1!"
and the
"zomg, Faith is just another kind of knowledge!11"
and
"Zomg, Science requires faith, too!1!1"
wrong, wrong, wrong.
isn't it funny how theists, in a attempt to denigrate science, usually end up trying to compare it to theism?
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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kmisho
Stochastic
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 4658
Local time: 3:18 PM
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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religion and science may have the same goal. But religion has no METHOD of attaining it.
Real knowledge is inherently sharable, romans. All else is at best self-reporting. Ask yourself why medical scientists don't rely on self-reporting to approve a vaccine.
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K Michau
Now this religion happens to prevail/Until by that one it is overthrown/Because men dare not live with men alone/But always with another fairy tale.
al-Ma'arri, Syrian Poet, died 1057
You deny the existence of 999 alleged Gods. I merely deny one more - yours.
John MacKinnon Robertson, "Godism" 1896
"Never is a long time." Robert Fripp, 1998
Poetry, Art, Music |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the parts of the Scientific Method are:
Communication, replication and verification.
faith/religion has none of these.
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
www.Moloth.com
Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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Jason_Harvestdancer
WonderMod Powers ACTIVATE!
Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 2421
Local time: 9:18 PM
Location: Northern LA County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kmisho wrote: | | Romans almost touched on it. But I was hoping someone would say 'change the bible.' |
Actually, there is a debate among Christian theologians (which leaves out the Baptists because they don't have any theologians) about whether the Bible should have an open canon or a closed canon. It's a minor debate, more on the outer edges of Christian thought, but if the open canon side wins it will make Christianity a very interesting religion.
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Nos laetus edo qui votum opprimo nobis.
LakeGeorgeMan actually think's I'm Socrates.
Visit my wife's art gallery |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 9340
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| romans120 wrote: | | JBCuzISaidSo wrote: | What?
Why would it do that? Please explain. |
You do realize religion and science both have the same goal - truth Since science depends upon prior truth claims in order to advance it must be based upon doctrine. The law of relativity is doctrine. When you are taught that law in school you are being indoctrinated into a belief system. |
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Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine
| Quote: | Doctrine (Latin: doctrina) is a code of beliefs or "a body of teachings" or "instructions", taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system. The Greek analogy is the etymology of catechism.
Often doctrine specifically connotes a corpus of religious dogma as it is promulgated by a church, but not necessarily: doctrine is also used to refer to a principle of law, in the common law traditions, established through a history of past decisions, such as the doctrine of self-defense, or the principle of fair use, or the more narrowly applicable first-sale doctrine. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma
| Quote: | | Dogma (the plural is either dogmata or dogmas, Greek δόγμα, plural δόγματα) is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from. |
Science.. on the other hand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science
REQUIRES to be questioned. there IS NO dogma in science. ALL things are TO BE questioned.
In religion, to question is heresy.
In science, to question is mandatory.
romans... seriously... you cannot be serious when you equate science and religion like that. i KNOW you know better than that.
also, more interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_religion_and_science
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-=The Believer is Happy; the Skeptic is Wise=-
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total |
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