Religion General Discussion : What to do if God doesn't respond?

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What to do if God doesn't respond?
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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

do you have proof, that I interpreted it? hence the outcome? no?

On the contrary, it is YOU that have claimed that these things happened in your life DUE to the absence of god.....so it is YOU that have to provide evidence of this. We have already provided examples of people that do not believe in god that do pretty well with their finances and raise well-behaved children (such as myself). So, right now, it's up to you to somehow refute all of that evidence and show that belief in god is directly related to success in life.

ah no, Dog says that it was Me simply interpreting it that way....

I would like proof, your mixing two very different positive statements and trying to make one as to not answer... Smile

care to answer?

OMG, why I still answer you is a miracle in itself...

YOU have said that god directly affects your life in that if you stopped believing in him, your finances and relationships would go to crap.....well guess what....we already provided evidence (Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and the divorce rate among christians) that this theory is completely absurd. God has nothing to do with your success. So once again, it is up to you to prove that what you experienced in your time as a non-believer shoudl be attributed to god, and not to you being a bad father and irresponsible with your money.
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles

"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius

"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne

Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Local time: 12:13 AM
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject:

baddogma wrote:

You theists seem awfully insecure with faith. Just admit all you have is blind faith, why try to go with evidence?

Exactly. That's why I respect my christian friend a lot more than guys like this since he keeps his religion private and understands it's all about blind faith.
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles

"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius

"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne

Newman
Caribbean Theist

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 12:13 AM
Location: San Juan

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject:

baddogma wrote:

You theists seem awfully insecure with faith. Just admit all you have is blind faith, why try to go with evidence?

please clarify what kind of evidence, as I have plenty by real life experiences, mine and many other I know.

that you decide to live life by "faith" of men, that is you choice or decision or whatever other pretty word you would like to attach
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Newman
Caribbean Theist

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 12:13 AM
Location: San Juan

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

do you have proof, that I interpreted it? hence the outcome? no?

ah no, Dog says that it was Me simply interpreting it that way....

I would like proof, your mixing two very different positive statements and trying to make one as to not answer... Smile

care to answer?

again your assuming God is at fault for their divorce...

you never provided proof that Gates or Buffet had a better relationship than I do?
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Newman
Caribbean Theist

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
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Location: San Juan

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject:

Zocrates wrote:

baddogma wrote:

You theists seem awfully insecure with faith. Just admit all you have is blind faith, why try to go with evidence?

Exactly. That's why I respect my christian friend a lot more than guys like this since he keeps his religion private and understands it's all about blind faith.

kept it private? do you remember my first post?
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Moloth
Coin Operated Boy

Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 23071
Local time: 12:13 AM
Location: Warner Robins, GA

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

do you have proof, that I interpreted it? hence the outcome? no?

ah no, Dog says that it was Me simply interpreting it that way....

I would like proof, your mixing two very different positive statements and trying to make one as to not answer... Smile

care to answer?

again your assuming God is at fault for their divorce...

again you're assuming that God is at fault for your wife getting pregnant.

Newman, you are one of the WORST apologetics i have ever seen.
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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total

baddogma
antitheist

Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 9340
Local time: 2:13 PM
Location: Colorado

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

baddogma wrote:

You theists seem awfully insecure with faith. Just admit all you have is blind faith, why try to go with evidence?

Exactly. That's why I respect my christian friend a lot more than guys like this since he keeps his religion private and understands it's all about blind faith.

kept it private? do you remember my first post?

Nope.

But why debate when you know all you have is faith to back you up?

Admit all you have is faith and we shake hands and stop ripping on you.

Deal?
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Zocrates
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Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject:

Newman wrote:

again your assuming God is at fault for their divorce...

MORE PROOF YOU'RE EITHER DELUSIONAL AND/OR RETARDED....since I already said the complete opposite:

Zocrates wrote:

I'm not saying the reason they got divorced has anything at all to do with god at all.

Quote:

you never provided proof that Gates or Buffet had a better relationship than I do?

No, those were examples of people that have better financial situations than you. The relationship example was of myself, and I'm not saying mine is better than yours, but I do have a wonderful relationship without god.

So, saying that these things would change without god.....is bullshit. If they fell apart, it's because YOU let the fall apart.

Nothing changes if you stop believing in god kiddo.....only your perception. The outside world does not change.
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles

"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius

"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne

Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Local time: 12:13 AM
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject:

Moloth wrote:

Newman, you are one of the WORST apologetics i have ever seen.

hahaha, I second that!
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles

"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius

"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne

ShaSha
Forum Master

Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 4951
Local time: 11:13 PM
Location: Minnesota

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject:

BarkAtTheMoon wrote:

ShaSha wrote:

notsaved wrote:

Blessings, being blessed is all bullshit.

There is no such thing just like there is no such thing as God and a so called God pouring out any such things.

Blessings go no further than your brain just like the prayers you pray to your imaginary God.

Let's say you are right about the god issue. That still doesn't make blessings or being blessed bullshit. It would just be another word for fortunes or lucky gift of life or whatever words one uses. Sometimes the word means a gift beyond any imagination and other times it means something we love that is part of us every day of our lives and is always good. It can mean something we ourselves did or another gave us. I use different words depending on who I am talking to. Around theists I love the word and use it. Around secular people I use secular words.

Isn't that the whole point? The things referred to as blessings by theists are for the most part inherently mundane natural events and common life experiences or even some uncommon ones but natural never the less. Things like getting married, having kids, getting a decent job; a very large percentage of people have had those same experiences and have for thousands of years in every culture and belief or lack thereof. Same thing with the bad things that get ignored or apologized for in regards to any divine influence, "God works in mysterious ways" or "God has a plan." Rolling Eyes

They're just normal aspects of life. For all the stuff theists attribute to a god, remove god from the equation and nothing has changed.

Depends on what point you want to emphasize. I was going for the point of getting along by not making such a big deal about a word or its' origin. Smile

Each theist is different of course in how they view blessings but I do think the theist rightly or wrongly that does try to see all as blessings or learning experiences does have it one step at least easier than an attitude of never enough or the attitude even of arguing that calling them blessings is a bad thing.

Let's face it, most of us are probably very decent people. We aren't living in a war zone, most of us are at least middle class, none are starving and so on. We are all well off so why not just discuss these great events occasionally and not just the differences?

Jason_Harvestdancer
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:

Moloth wrote:

Newman, you are one of the WORST apologetics i have ever seen.

In order for that to be true, that would mean Jason Gastrich isn't an apologist at all. From a certain point of view that is true.
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Moloth
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:

Jason_Harvestdancer wrote:

Moloth wrote:

Newman, you are one of the WORST apologetics i have ever seen.

In order for that to be true, that would mean Jason Gastrich isn't an apologist at all. From a certain point of view that is true.

point taken... Wink

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Last edited by Moloth on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total

ShaSha
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Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Posts: 4951
Local time: 11:13 PM
Location: Minnesota

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

Zocrates wrote:

Newman wrote:

personal relationships, the only time I have turned away from God, my relationship with my kids went astray, they simply showed no intention of wanting to be with me, they started doing bad themselves socially (school, friends). one example, the others are too personal

financially, I stop tithing, and my finances went all over the place, I had problems making ends meat vs. when I did start tithing my finances became stable and then I truly feel I was blessed financially.

now, to see yourself struggling financially and to start tithing and see the difference almost immediately and then the same in a negative manner immediately after I stopped, to then receive belssings beyond my realm after I start, its almost impossible to chalk it up to coincidence

So let me get this straight....you're equating your life going to crap based on your non-belief in god.....and yet there are millions of non-believers with more money and excellent relationships?

What's more probable here:

A) That belief in god is directly linked to success and blessings

or

B) That if your finances go to crap and your kids get out of control, then it's something YOU are not doing.

If you choose A, my dealings with you are officially done as there's nothing more I can say.

care to prove that (bold)?

choose A , so Oficially done Smile

take good care Zoc, even if we dont agree, I wish you the best

Bill Gates....I believe he's #3 on the world's richest list....doesn't believe in god. All you need is one example to prove there is not correlation with belief in god and success in life. On the flip side, I've personally know many dysfunctional families that believe in god, as evidenced by the divorce rate in this country.

But I guess you'll still cling to this retarded belief that if you stop believing in god that the external world will change as if god punishes those that don't believe.....despite the contrary evidence. That's called delusion. And you are one fucked up, delusional human being.

so, Bill Gates is richer than me...off course, does he have a better relationship than me??...........??................??

never said God punishes you.....your unbiased stance is making you very dishonest,

God gives you a choice.....live by my provisions or live by yourss...

my life shows to me that my ability to provide is far less than Gods..

Let me ask you the same way you seems to reason and the same way you seem to assume...

so if taking your personal experience (incredibly valid when it comes from you)

"I've personally know many dysfunctional families that believe in god, as evidenced by the divorce rate in this country"

your assuming they followed God and he just did not help, hence the reason they got divorced?

Bill Gates hasn't always been an atheist. Also his wife is a theist. Tithing doesn't mean just giving to a church. It means not holding all tightly and sharing with others. Bill and his wife are philanthropists who are doing great things. So whether his wife tithed or not, they lived by the law of tithing more than likely.

dobie
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject:

Hmm... newman, you seem to be saying that without god relationships falter and finances crumble, so it would be better to believe in god. At least that's what I think you're saying. I would like to point out that, as atheists do not believe in god, they will try to solve their problems themselves, and not pray, or go to church, or talk to their priest/pastors. On the other hand, you strike me as someone who has accepted jesus into their heart, and is now doing quite well. What I don't understand is why you're taking issue with atheists for being consistent with their belief system. I don't think that you are going to convince many of them to join the christian faith, but if their lives are falling apart at the seams, they are liable to notice that without your help. And as long as your life has turned around, well..., that's great, I guess. I respect everyone who's actions are consistent with their beliefs. But that's exactly what atheists are doing, too. Why are you even saying what you have, then? _________________ Americanism -- n. e.g. Who gives a shit??

Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Local time: 12:13 AM
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject:

ShaSha wrote:

I've never said that people that do good things often live rewarding and successful lives, because they do. There is no evidence whatsoever that a god has anything to do with this. You and Newman are suggesting that it's because Bill Gates and his wife give large sums of money to charity that god has decided to bless him with more success, and there is no evidence for this.

The reason why Gates and others like him are so successful is that they either worked their asses of or they stole others' ideas (such as the case with a lot of Gates' success).

All other things equal, if there was a correlation between belief in god and financial/relationship success, religious people would be among the world's wealthiest, and they would have lower divorce rates....and this is simply not the case. Period.

Life would not change if you cease to believe in god. Your own personal view of what happens after you die would change.....but that's about it. Nothing in our world would change. Like the quote says.....reality is that which when you stop believing in it, it's still there. If you stop believing in god, there would be no evidence of his existence.....the only evidence of his existence that you see NOW is the evidence that you ascribe to him based on your belief.....but if this ceases, there would be no evidence of one.
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles

"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius

"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne

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