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ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
Bah, you are really limiting God. It is impossible not to please God because God loves us as we are. Before Zoc even asks God knows and has a way for him. It will not be your way or my way because we are all too precious to have to have copycat religions. |
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 12:16 AM
Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| baddogma wrote: | | Quote: | because as a non believer, we hear commandments, and we shun them out, simply because they are in the bible.... what if those commandments were in a secular books name "how to live a good life" would they sound better? would they be acceptable? me thinks yes  |
Me thinks FUCK NO! there are only a couple worth a shit. That is why they are LAW. Don't murder...Don't steal.
What do the others have to do with anything? Idols? Oh yeah good one. Don't worship any other god above me? blasphemy? sabbath?!? GTFO!
| Quote: |
so I gave it a chance, like an experiment, I did what I was supposed to do in order to see the difference in my life....and it simply worked! the experiment worked.. |
Let us give you a few experiments.
| Quote: |
what do you need to feel God in your life, a humble heart... |
Delusion, cognitive dissonance, ignorance, compartmentalization...... |
hehe, I know Dog, it was a question and you got the answer, God has many ways, many, and many people have come to God in many different ways, I showed you mine
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ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | | ShaSha wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
It would take a conversation of getting to know you and what you believe and then I would direct you according to information that I would get from you. It's not a one minute or one hour revelation. It could take years. It took me years. But I enjoyed the journey of discovery so it was all fun. |
Did you read my blog post?
I basically said that I don't believe much of anything. I didn't grow up with religion although I prayed as a kid every once in a while for some sort of sign.....never got any. I don't reject god as a possibility....just an improbability. I'm open minded only because I realize I can't possibly know much for an absolute fact, even the idea of god existing.
Is that enough information? |
No I mean get to know you as in your daily life, just a nice casual conversation where I can get a better feeling of who you are overall. Your theistic background is helpful but there is much more that is used than that in communication and knowing the divine.
My answer was based on you being in my 3D life where we would really talk spontaneously for several hours or more. You asked how we would do it and I told you how I would. Different thoughts would pop out from both of us during this conversation that would be possible thoughts for you to pursue.
I did read your blog and since you seem to just be looking for another hypothetical scenario I won't go much further in my answers to you. I will say this though and that is if you really want it (and I don't mean you having faith), it will come  Kind of like Field of Dreams. What will come to you? An experience that will lead to a knowing within you of ah!! |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 9340
Local time: 2:16 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
Bah, you are really limiting God. It is impossible not to please God because God loves us as we are. Before Zoc even asks God knows and has a way for him. It will not be your way or my way because we are all too precious to have to have copycat religions. |
Why bother when it's so easy to make up your own?
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | | ShaSha wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
It would take a conversation of getting to know you and what you believe and then I would direct you according to information that I would get from you. It's not a one minute or one hour revelation. It could take years. It took me years. But I enjoyed the journey of discovery so it was all fun. |
Did you read my blog post?
I basically said that I don't believe much of anything. I didn't grow up with religion although I prayed as a kid every once in a while for some sort of sign.....never got any. I don't reject god as a possibility....just an improbability. I'm open minded only because I realize I can't possibly know much for an absolute fact, even the idea of god existing.
Is that enough information? |
No I mean get to know you as in your daily life, just a nice casual conversation where I can get a better feeling of who you are overall. Your theistic background is helpful but there is much more that is used than that in communication and knowing the divine.
My answer was based on you being in my 3D life where we would really talk spontaneously for several hours or more. You asked how we would do it and I told you how I would. Different thoughts would pop out from both of us during this conversation that would be possible thoughts for you to pursue.
I did read your blog and since you seem to just be looking for another hypothetical scenario I won't go much further in my answers to you. I will say this though and that is if you really want it (and I don't mean you having faith), it will come Kind of like Field of Dreams. What will come to you? An experience that will lead to a knowing within you of ah!! |
Like what an incredible BM?
How do you tell that from a great poem or your favorite song?
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Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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pr126
resident misanthrope
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Newman wrote:
What?!  
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
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Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | | Newman wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
well although I feel the question might just be a hook and sink question (no insult intended) I can just tell you how I did it,
upon wanting to know if God existed or not, and willing to give anything a try... I did what any non-believer would do, I did research, now before all of you get your underwear in a bind regarding the words I use (research) let me clarify, when you do an experiment, you inmerse yourself into the experiment, into the items you have for it, into all the pieces necessary for it, correct? when you do a Math problem , you need the numbers available, and the formula you have learned to solve it, never mind you need paper and pencil. Well, I asked, what do I have to do? in Christianity you simply have to accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour and simply live a good life. |
Here's where I stopped and where your analogy goes astray. In mathematics, we start with the numbers and eventually get to a conclusion/answer.....but here, you're starting with the conclusion/answer and using the numbers ("evidence") to suit that conclusion. To say you should start with the conclusion that Jesus is our Lord and Savior is to suggest that we should start with the answer of 3 and manipulate 1+1 so that it fits the answer.
A. you know the point I was making, dont just pick the one you dont like, what about the others, it was simply to show what I have done, you asked we answered, when you ask a question not always will you like the answer, if you would like the answer to be different, tell me what you want to hear first
Is that what Christianity is about? Just blindly accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior with no evidence at all? After you do this, then you'll hear the voices and get the evidence?
A. well, yes to the first, no to the second, at least me, I have never heard voices, so your assumption is inaccurate, but you will receive revelation in your heart.
| Quote: | | Now...why do I say a good life, instead of commandments or rules? because as a non believer, we hear commandments, and we shun them out, simply because they are in the bible.... what if those commandments were in a secular books name "how to live a good life" would they sound better? would they be acceptable? me thinks yes |
I don't "shun" any commandments. I don't kill because I realize its stupid...same for stealing, adultery, etc. I don't get your point.
A. never said you did, should of said "some", agreed, I agree we as humans should follow a certain code of morals not enforced by fear of punishment, and I do realize some Christians do. you understood the point.
| Quote: | again this was my train of thought back then.....
so I gave it a chance, like an experiment, I did what I was supposed to do in order to see the difference in my life....and it simply worked! the experiment worked.. |
What "experiment" was this? Just blindly saying "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and magically you started to hear from God?
A. I used the experiment analogy, accept him from the heart, not like a child "God I am here, gimme, gimme" , never said you hear voices, you just adding to that as to make fun of it, and thats cool, if that is your point in the thread.
Well here I am on this forum, right now proclaiming Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Now what?
A. already explained that
| Quote: | so what do you need to drive a Nascar race car? you need a car, and you need many lessons (by the way The Richard Petty driving experience is a must:))
what do you need to do a Bonsai? you need the tree, some equipment and some lessons, and in the end, you get a beautifull Bonsai. |
So, God requires everyone to have "lessons" before he can speak to them? Please show me the bible verse that says this.
A. HEHEHE, wont even answer that as you know the answer and the why I wrote that
| Quote: | what do you need to feel God in your life, a humble heart...
peace |
My heart is humble. Who are you to judge and say it isn't? Now that my heart is humble, now what? |
man you guys are touchy, who said you did not? you can be a great person, with a humble heart, BUT..you dont accept God.
as you can see I miss the class on quotes, just follow the (A.) to follow your answer
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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Local time: 12:16 AM
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | No I mean get to know you as in your daily life, just a nice casual conversation where I can get a better feeling of who you are overall. Your theistic background is helpful but there is much more that is used than that in communication and knowing the divine.
My answer was based on you being in my 3D life where we would really talk spontaneously for several hours or more. You asked how we would do it and I told you how I would. Different thoughts would pop out from both of us during this conversation that would be possible thoughts for you to pursue. |
I have to know what this would accomplish. What does talking to YOU have to do with me talking to GOD? Does everyone that god doesn't speak to have to go through Sha Sha?
| Quote: | | I did read your blog and since you seem to just be looking for another hypothetical scenario I won't go much further in my answers to you. I will say this though and that is if you really want it (and I don't mean you having faith), it will come Kind of like Field of Dreams. What will come to you? An experience that will lead to a knowing within you of ah!! |
I'm simply giving this a try. You say God speaks to people and reveals himself to people. Just trying to find out why he reveals himself to crazies and small children.....but not me. What's up with that?
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles
"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius
"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne
Last edited by Zocrates on Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Newman
Caribbean Theist
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2009
Local time: 12:16 AM
Location: San Juan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| baddogma wrote: | | Newman wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | | Quote: | | because as a non believer, we hear commandments, and we shun them out, simply because they are in the bible.... what if those commandments were in a secular books name "how to live a good life" would they sound better? would they be acceptable? me thinks yes |
Me thinks FUCK NO! there are only a couple worth a shit. That is why they are LAW. Don't murder...Don't steal.
What do the others have to do with anything? Idols? Oh yeah good one. Don't worship any other god above me? blasphemy? sabbath?!? GTFO!
| Quote: |
so I gave it a chance, like an experiment, I did what I was supposed to do in order to see the difference in my life....and it simply worked! the experiment worked.. |
Let us give you a few experiments.
| Quote: |
what do you need to feel God in your life, a humble heart... |
Delusion, cognitive dissonance, ignorance, compartmentalization...... |
impossible to know and understand since you never tried |
Oh I tried, I put my hand on the TV and said what the fucktard on TV told me to say, I prayed. I guess the experiment didn't work for me because I didn't believe hard enough.
 |
lol. you guys are too much.... you only know what you want to know
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ShaSha
Forum Master
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Zocrates wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | you don't do anything all the steps are Gods. |
So now, I just sit back and wait? What if I die before I hear from him? I won't become a believer unless I hear from him....and I'll end up in hell if I'm a non-beleiver. A bit of a Catch 22.
And if this is the case, what's the difference between a non-believer and someone that never hears from god? And like BD said, why is god ignoring select people? Are you saying you're more special than me because you hear from god? |
This is where I would get to know you better if we were talking in real life. I would tell you that it benefits us to know God for our happiness here on earth and death has nothing to do with it either way. When you die you go back where you came from which is not unconciousness but rather ultraconsciousness.
I would also tell you to start looking at some of the parts of the bible that aren't connected with hell or the curse of the OT god etc. Those aren't to be ignored but without believing that there is a god of love to experience, you limit how god can reach you.
I would also tell you that nobody is more special than another. God communicates (talks) to all of us constantly. But because we are unique we don't look for that unique way god is communicating with us unless something nudges us towards that. Many seek in the ways of tradition and group think and that limits god.
Narrow is the way not because the path is full of tricks but rather because it is unique and just for you. |
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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Damn man, I just realized living as a theist is one justification after another.....their entire lives revolve around using contrary evidence presented to them to fit their unprovable truth.
Do you realize how much work that would take? To constantly be on guard to try and manipulate words and evidence to fit this conclusion? It's got to be exhausting to live a lie like this....to know there's something askew about what people are saying and trying your hardest to try and make it fit....all the while knowing in the back of your mind that something still doesn't fit right.
I pity theists, I really do. I'm genuinely saddened that people have been THAT brainwashed that they have to constantly live a lie in order to keep this ridiculous charade going. This is pathetic.
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles
"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius
"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 9340
Local time: 2:16 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| Newman wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | | Newman wrote: | | baddogma wrote: | | Quote: | | because as a non believer, we hear commandments, and we shun them out, simply because they are in the bible.... what if those commandments were in a secular books name "how to live a good life" would they sound better? would they be acceptable? me thinks yes |
Me thinks FUCK NO! there are only a couple worth a shit. That is why they are LAW. Don't murder...Don't steal.
What do the others have to do with anything? Idols? Oh yeah good one. Don't worship any other god above me? blasphemy? sabbath?!? GTFO!
| Quote: |
so I gave it a chance, like an experiment, I did what I was supposed to do in order to see the difference in my life....and it simply worked! the experiment worked.. |
Let us give you a few experiments.
| Quote: |
what do you need to feel God in your life, a humble heart... |
Delusion, cognitive dissonance, ignorance, compartmentalization...... |
impossible to know and understand since you never tried |
Oh I tried, I put my hand on the TV and said what the fucktard on TV told me to say, I prayed. I guess the experiment didn't work for me because I didn't believe hard enough.
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lol. you guys are too much.... you only know what you want to know |
I only know what I want to know....Um..NO that would be YOU. YOU know what YOU want to be REALITY. WE know facts. Faith does not play a role in our KNOWLEDGE.
Faith does not equal facts my friend. No way no how
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Join http://www.sefora.org/
Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
I'm ashamed of what I did for a Klondike bar.... |
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Zocrates
I rank, therefore I am
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | This is where I would get to know you better if we were talking in real life. I would tell you that it benefits us to know God for our happiness here on earth and death has nothing to do with it either way. When you die you go back where you came from which is not unconciousness but rather ultraconsciousness.
I would also tell you to start looking at some of the parts of the bible that aren't connected with hell or the curse of the OT god etc. Those aren't to be ignored but without believing that there is a god of love to experience, you limit how god can reach you.
I would also tell you that nobody is more special than another. God communicates (talks) to all of us constantly. But because we are unique we don't look for that unique way god is communicating with us unless something nudges us towards that. Many seek in the ways of tradition and group think and that limits god.
Narrow is the way not because the path is full of tricks but rather because it is unique and just for you. |
Is that how you justify that other people don't hear from God: that we need someone to nudge us because we're not looking for the "unique" way god chooses to speak to us? You must be kidding me. If god wants to speak to me, it's not that hard.....just speak. Seeing god's voice in my morning cereal isn't god's voice.....it's me WANTING to see something.
_________________
"Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to investigate." - F.M. Knowles
"We only fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them" - Titus Livius
"Ain't nothin to it but to do it!" -Martin Payne |
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baddogma
antitheist
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 9340
Local time: 2:16 PM
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Zocrates wrote: | Damn man, I just realized living as a theist is one justification after another.....their entire lives revolve around using contrary evidence presented to them to fit their unprovable truth.
Do you realize how much work that would take? To constantly be on guard to try and manipulate words and evidence to fit this conclusion? It's got to be exhausting to live a lie like this....to know there's something askew about what people are saying and trying your hardest to try and make it fit....all the while knowing in the back of your mind that something still doesn't fit right.
I pity theists, I really do. I'm genuinely saddened that people have been THAT brainwashed that they have to constantly live a lie in order to keep this ridiculous charade going. This is pathetic. |
And to this they would reply...What lie? Just like a good little stepford wife.
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Can omnicient god who knows the future find the omnipotence to change his future mind?
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romans120
Resident Theist
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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Location: The God Shaped Hole in Your Heart
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: What to do if God doesn't respond? |
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| ShaSha wrote: | | romans120 wrote: | | Zocrates wrote: | New blog post
To all the theists out there...if a non-believer came to you and honestly wanted to hear God or know he was there, what would you recommend? |
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
So biblically your scenario is a non-sequitor |
Bah, you are really limiting God. It is impossible not to please God because God loves us as we are. Before Zoc even asks God knows and has a way for him. It will not be your way or my way because we are all too precious to have to have copycat religions. |
If you are saying I'm (well really the Bible because I didn't really make a claim) wrong and my statement is untrue. While you claim your statement is truth. How is it your not trying to make a "copycat" religeon (which would require all things to be truth at the same time)
and in a later post you said | Quote: | When you die you go back where you came from which is not unconciousness but rather ultraconsciousness.
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How do you know that? If God told you that why didn't He include that in the Bible (since there are parts in that you say are from God) If that is the case why bother with God at all? Could it be that I'm not limiting God but rather you don't want to submit to a God bigger then you so you make God what you want Him to be
_________________
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20
Check out my weblog at http://romans120.wordpress.com/ |
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